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To: GregNH
The Constitution, Art. II, says in pertinant part: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;”

Since everyone who was a citizen at the time of adoption is dead and likely to remain that way, we can remove the grandfather clause wording. We are left with “No Person except a natural born Citizen [...] shall be eligible to the Office of President;”

Why does the Constitution speak of “citizens” and separately of “natural born citizens”? It is a matter of allegiance.

A person can be a “citizen” if they were citizens or subjects in some other country first but have come here and met the naturalization requirements. Also, if one is the offspring of a citizen and a non-citizen, then one is a US citizen. However, in both these cases it can be argued that the person might choose allegiance to their former country or to the country of the foreign-born parent or at least the allegiance might be considered divided. It is this divided or alienated allegiance that the Constitutional provision is designed to prohibit.

If, however, both of one’s parents are themselves US citizens, then one is a “citizen” as well as a “natural born citizen”. The “natural born citizen” is one who at birth has no natural allegiance to any other country and the Framers felt could be trusted to be loyal to the US and not act as a foreign agent.

Note that native born is not the same as natural born. Native born simply refers to the place of one’s birth, i.e., one’s nativity. The term does not speak to the legal circumstances of a birth, merely to its location.

17 posted on 05/01/2012 9:49:30 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Romney's judicial appointments were more radical than Obama's)
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To: Paine in the Neck

“The term does not speak to the legal circumstances of a birth, merely to its location.”

Huh? How could the location you were born make you a citizen without “legal circumstances” coming into play? Law controls what country the location belongs to, as well as the legal status of your parents. You can’t very well be born a U.S. citizen without being born on U.S. territory and without either one or both of your parents being citizens or your parents being subject to the jurisdiction of U.S. law.


33 posted on 05/01/2012 10:01:58 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Paine in the Neck

“It is a matter of allegiance”

What lies behind this simple statement settling the issue for certain minds is the entire madness of the style of Constitutional construction known as “original intent.” You divine that they were interested in preventing all but those with birth allegiance from being president, and therefore conclude no one with possible dual loyalties can possibly be president.

It matters not what they intended, but what they say. What they intended can help elucidate what they said, but it cannot add to it. The Constitution does not say “No person except those born without possible loyalties to other nations shall be eligible to be President.” That’s what you think it says, or want it to say, based on your pinpointing the allegiance motivation. However, just because they were motivated by concerns over allegiance does not mean native borns aren’t also natural borns. Especially since the 14th amendment came so long after the Founder generation.


39 posted on 05/01/2012 10:14:00 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Paine in the Neck
"The “natural born citizen” is one who at birth has no natural allegiance to any other country..."

Thank you; stating it in the negative (with slightly different emphasis) produces one of the clearest definitions of NBC that I have seen -- and it conveys the founders' reasoning for the NBC requirement.

No one who has one foreign citizen as a parent can meet the above criteria.

Øbozo is ineligible to be POTUS.


58 posted on 05/01/2012 10:30:51 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Paine in the Neck

Pretty good explaination.
8 U.S. Code, Section 1401 does not address “Natural Born Citizen” and it does not seem to be clearly defined anywhere else with legal standing.

The defined meaning is akin to interpitation of the Bible, most everyone has their set of ideas. Until NBC comes before the SCOTUS, it will likely remain clouded. Additionally, because there is not solidly set of rules who may object prior to the Electorial College, the Court remains moot and powerless to say doodley until someone “with standing” brings it to the SCOTUS.

Sure looks like a puzzle the Founding Fathers gave to a future generation to resolve as part of the necessary struggle to maintain our liberty.


72 posted on 05/01/2012 10:45:56 AM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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