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Employers could save billions by dropping workers from health plans, report shows
foxnews.com ^ | 5/1/12 | Jim Angle

Posted on 05/01/2012 11:42:07 AM PDT by ColdOne

A new survey of Fortune 100 companies finds that the health care overhaul, contrary to the claims of its authors, created some perverse incentives for employers to drop workers from company insurance plans.

Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee surveyed the top 100 companies about how much they spent on health care -- a total of 71, covering 5.9 million employees, responded. The results suggested it would be far more attractive for companies to drop workers from those plans than keep them.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathpanels; duh; healthinsurance; marxistcoup; obamacare; rinos; singlepayer; unexpected
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1 posted on 05/01/2012 11:42:12 AM PDT by ColdOne
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To: ColdOne

Killing them will save even more !


2 posted on 05/01/2012 11:44:30 AM PDT by traumer
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To: ColdOne

We knew that from the get go.

If the “fine” was less than the policy then it makes business sense to drop the plan and pay the “fine”.

The problem has always been once Obamacare kicked in and knocked out all the private insurance plans they could then kick the fine all the way to the moon.


3 posted on 05/01/2012 11:45:52 AM PDT by PeteB570 ( Islam is the sea in which the Terrorist Shark swims. The deeper the sea the larger the shark.)
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To: ColdOne

But they wouldn’t do that....


4 posted on 05/01/2012 11:49:37 AM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: ColdOne

A Big thank you to all the RINOs in the Senate who voted this out of committee and you voted for cloture.


5 posted on 05/01/2012 11:49:41 AM PDT by Drill Thrawl (The United States of America, a banana republic since 1913)
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To: ColdOne

I have to say it:

Unexpected!


6 posted on 05/01/2012 11:49:59 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: ColdOne

Single payer was, and is, the goal of Obamacare. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence recognized this.


7 posted on 05/01/2012 11:50:04 AM PDT by Signalman
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To: Signalman

” Single payer was, and is, the goal of Obamacare. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence recognized this.”

Don’t talk about an ounce of intelligence these days : )


8 posted on 05/01/2012 11:56:28 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: ColdOne

That would explain my wife’s plan which is requiring us to provide a government issued marriage license(we’ve been married 30 years), a copy of a mortgage statement(or lease) showing both husband and wife, a copy of a bank statement showing both husband and wife, a copy of our 2010 tax return, state issued birth certificates for all of our dependants. We had fifteen days to provide all of that or be dropped from coverage. All children were born in different states. Who the heck has their marriage license of 30 years ago? Why the FU$% do I need to send them a copy of our 1040?


9 posted on 05/01/2012 11:58:58 AM PDT by blackdog (There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
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To: ColdOne

As bad as my current “health” plan is that’s provided by my employer they may as well do so. It probably isn’t much worse (yeah, it’s THAT bad)


10 posted on 05/01/2012 11:59:37 AM PDT by TheRhinelander
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To: ColdOne

***...contrary to the claims of its authors,...***

They lied? Imagine that...


11 posted on 05/01/2012 12:01:41 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Forget the GOP and go with the Constitution Party, because the status quo's no longer the way to go.)
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To: Signalman
workers would get generous federal subsidies -- which only phase out at about $88,000 income.

$88k isn't that much money these days. Take that family that probably pays between $300-$600 a month for the employee portion of premiums and then tell them they have to pay $1200-1500 a month.

Bye Bye middle class.

12 posted on 05/01/2012 12:01:50 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: ColdOne

It was obvious when this monstrosity was passed that this was the plan.


13 posted on 05/01/2012 12:02:27 PM PDT by mojito
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To: blackdog

That’s a whole lot of official documentation to obtain on short notice. And a heckuva lot more than the current occupant of the white house ever produced!


14 posted on 05/01/2012 12:04:53 PM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius, (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: ColdOne

Small businesses in many places have already been priced out of the insurance market for a long time. It will soon be big businesses that are priced out.

This would have happened with or without Obamacare

We already have single payer in Medicare/Medicaid for half of all medical care.

Employer-paid medical, like defined benefit pensions will be increasingly scarce.

Government could simply expand medicare to include everyone that wants it and could accomplish most of what Obamacare does. That’s probably how it will happen.

Folks that are complaining about socialized medicine today are about 50 years late in doing so.


15 posted on 05/01/2012 12:10:22 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: ColdOne

duh

and once everyone is at the govt ‘mercy’... then those deemed ‘unfit’ or ‘less productive for society’ will have a tough time receiving any care

even if you have money... there won’t be any (legitimate) medical types to help you

nothing new here. the same thing has been played out numerous times in many other countries... all with the same results (tho the exact number of dead various, it’s always in the millions)

good times... /progressive-loathing-sarcasm


16 posted on 05/01/2012 12:12:01 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: ColdOne

That is a key part of the Obama goal - to move everyone to government health care, to be the sole source of medical care.

Once the government is the sole source of medical care they will weild it like a club over our heads.

Who will vote against elected government officials who are the same people writing the rules dictating who gets medical care and medicines and who does not?

How many will support a candidate who wants to cut the government size and budget when the government warns that any cuts will affect their medical care?


17 posted on 05/01/2012 12:12:31 PM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repub's paid as much attention to Rush Limbaugh as the Dem's do, we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: MichaelCorleone

Watch...
if this comes to pass, the left will deride the businesses as “greedy” for dropping the coverage, even though they were forced to.


18 posted on 05/01/2012 12:14:24 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: ColdOne
We've known for at least 4 years that the whole boondoggle was designed to give us Single Payer via (as Cass Sunstein says) "Nudging" --- a combination of incentives, fines, regulations, mandates, freebies and penalties. It's not a "perverse" incentive if that was the whole idea to begin with.

And that is The Plan.

What can we do, except to pray that the USSC will strike the whole damn thing down?

19 posted on 05/01/2012 12:19:32 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (If you think healthcare is expensive now, you should see what it costs when it's free. PJ O'Rourke)
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To: blackdog

That sounds like a huge ordeal, and likely is overkill. But sounds like the plan is trying to weed out those who are really eligible, and to keep people from listing friends, live-ins, and assorted fringe relatives as dependents under the coverage, with no proof of a legitimate relationship. Seems like they could have gone about it in a different way, but perhaps the motive was legitimate.


20 posted on 05/01/2012 12:22:39 PM PDT by NEMDF
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To: traumer
"Killing them will save even more !"

HAHA Hahahaaaa.. Good one. How about the employers claim bankruptcy then go on the government dole? It seems that everything that makes America unique is being stripped from our landscape. Employer health plans, 401k 'company match' contributions, etc., were an effort by employers to LURE and KEEP good employees. Now since people will take just about any job they can find, there's no incentive for employers to offer perks. Obama has created a slave state where we're happy just to get our one piece of bread and small cup of water. Thank you, almighty one! /sarc

21 posted on 05/01/2012 12:36:10 PM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: PeteB570

Exactly. This was the plan all along. The whole structure of 0bamacare is just lies piled on lies.


22 posted on 05/01/2012 12:37:54 PM PDT by henkster (Wanted: Politicians willing to say "No" to people. No experience required.)
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To: PeteB570

You get the employers out of providing health care first, then push everyone into government run exchanges, followed by a single payer system. That was the plan all along. Obama said it himself.


23 posted on 05/01/2012 12:44:44 PM PDT by kabar
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To: ColdOne

I can see the fine for companies not to provide health insurance would rise rapidly.

Is there a mechanism in obamamcare for this fine to increase automatically? Or does the HHS secretary has the authority to increase this?


24 posted on 05/01/2012 12:45:14 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: ColdOne

More of a reason for the USSC to strike down the entire law!


25 posted on 05/01/2012 12:46:15 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: RFEngineer

First they force every one onto Medicaid who is on Medicare. Do you know anyone on Medicaid?


26 posted on 05/01/2012 12:47:03 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: RFEngineer
Medicare represents a $40 trillion unfunded liability. If not changed it will consume the entire federal budget.


27 posted on 05/01/2012 12:52:28 PM PDT by kabar
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To: blackdog
Just curious, is Ceridian running the audit?
I am up to the marriage certificate part of mine, righteous pain in the ass..
28 posted on 05/01/2012 12:54:02 PM PDT by Michael Barnes (Obamaa+ Downgrade)
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To: NEMDF
You are correct. Companies are keeping tight lipped on this but some have corporate branches who's insurance claims dwarf the main company's. Investigations reveal that there are indeed several ineligible people on their employees insurance. The HR and management people responsible for stopping this were either asleep at the wheel or being paid to look the other way. A deadline could mean that there was something illegal going on. If after the deadline some people suddenly lose their jobs is a good indicator as to that being the case. Some of these cases have gone on for years. Of course the company can decide just to eat the cost but in the end, somebody didn't do their job.
29 posted on 05/01/2012 12:58:15 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: ColdOne

This was the reason for the bill in the first place, this is the ONLY reason for the Bill.. to make EVERYONE even the producers dependent on government. Pure and Simple... anyone telling you otherwise is LYING.


30 posted on 05/01/2012 1:00:29 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: ColdOne

Healthcare costs at my employer was $9,120 per employee in 2010. Of that $4,023 was paid by the employee so the company actually spent $5,097 per employee. At around 400,000 employees that means they spent ~$2B. After paying the fines the company would net $1.2B more to the bottom line. Costs have been increasing about 10% per year so they would probably be doing better than that.

Why would they keep paying for insurance?


31 posted on 05/01/2012 1:11:28 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: blackdog

My hubby’s company did the same thing a few years ago. After the “audit” they reported that they found 400 ineligible people on the plan. But somehow, the rates didn’t go down.

Then.... they started this b.s. where hubby has to do “their” physical and not have 3 or more “risk factors” in order to save $500 on the following years premium. If you have 3 or more risks then you have to do their “losing weight” online program to get the discount regardless of what the risk factors are.

Well this time they are requiring the spouse to take the physical as well for a savings of $1500 on next years premium..... Not gonna happen.

It has already begun.


32 posted on 05/01/2012 1:17:57 PM PDT by Grumpybutt ("Mothers go where angels fear to tread....")
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To: kabar

The solution of course is not more medicare, but if the goal is single payer, that’s how it will happen, because they’ve got it halfway there already.

I didn’t say it would be paid for......Of course it won’t be paid for!


33 posted on 05/01/2012 1:20:41 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: traumer
Killing them will save even more !

LOL!

Pay them what Chintofat pays Communist peasants in Walmart sweat shops.

34 posted on 05/01/2012 1:25:24 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: rawhide

“More of a reason for the USSC to strike down the entire law!”

Ok, I agree Obamacare should be struck down.

Then what? Do you think that there is no limit to what employer-paid health care can cost and still be available to employees?

No matter what happens with Obamacare, employers will still be unable to profitably operate forever when medical costs exceed inflation.

Many have already reached that point.

So, again, then what?


35 posted on 05/01/2012 1:32:34 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: ColdOne
Employers could save billions by dropping workers from health plans, report shows

For a few years, it would.

Then the government, who could not possibly afford to treat all these people, will come in and rape the employers with taxes.

You know, "to make up for the fact that we picked up everyone you dropped".

And one more step towards communism.

36 posted on 05/01/2012 1:38:35 PM PDT by Lazamataz (To the wall, street occupiers!!!!! (credit: WilliamofCarmichael))
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To: HamiltonJay

“...to make EVERYONE even the producers dependent on government. Pure and Simple.”

More than that. It’s to convert the USA into a European style socialist state. The socialists will use medical care as the mechanism for vast expansion of government, not just for medical care.

The argument conservatives must make is that the government must be removed....completely removed from health care in order to maintain a robust healthcare system for everyone.

When a plurality of people get something for “free” you are asking the impossible. A “You pay for yours, I pay for mine” is the solution, but you gotta convince those that get it for free to play along.

It will never happen, until government healthcare fails completely - THEN people who get it for free will agree to pay for their care - not one second before, and we can proceed on the basis of willing buyer/willing provider (free enterprise).


37 posted on 05/01/2012 1:41:57 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: PeteB570
The "plan" all along as been for "Single Payer" and the Feds in control.

Anyone who doesn't realize this isn't listening....

38 posted on 05/01/2012 1:48:11 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: Signalman

Businesses have been wanting government healthcare for years.


39 posted on 05/01/2012 1:51:24 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: blackdog
Who the heck has their marriage license of 30 years ago? Why the FU$% do I need to send them a copy of our 1040?

To be sure that you filed a joint return and are willing to face the IRS to defend your marital status (IRS trumps penalty of perjury, those guys play hardball). It's to weed out all the HINO's and WINO's (no pun intended). I'll bet there is a clause about living together as "man and wife" in the policy although they probably were forced to amend that to "man and whatever."

40 posted on 05/01/2012 1:54:10 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (SpaceX Dragon launch to ISS, Cape Canaveral AFS, May 7, 9:38 AM EDT)
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To: ColdOne

All part of the plan. Of course, our vaunted government will probably just pass a law making it illegal for them to do so—until a government mandated single-payer “option” is in place. So we’ll end up having no jobs and awful healthcare. Sounds like Eutopia, doesn’t it?


41 posted on 05/01/2012 1:57:06 PM PDT by Antoninus (Sorry, gone rogue.)
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To: RFEngineer
So, again, then what?

Start with tort reform. Look what it did in Texas. Yet Obamacare is completely silent on the subject. Tort driven medicine is what is commonly attributed to be 10% of healthcare cost. How about starting with a real 10% reduction in cost? Let there truly be a marketplace without all these mandated coverages layered on by gubermint. Then let companies allow you to pay for coverage from the company of your choice with pre-tax dollars. And allow risk-pooling across state lines. Simplify HSA's and educate the public about them.

That's what.

42 posted on 05/01/2012 2:03:41 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (SpaceX Dragon launch to ISS, Cape Canaveral AFS, May 7, 9:38 AM EDT)
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To: RFEngineer
Obama video supporting single payer
43 posted on 05/01/2012 2:09:48 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Michael Barnes
It took a really long time to find who is doing it, but it is Hewitt.

How about just firing anyone from the company who is dishonest? What is standard behavior in the ranks of government employees is not the standard where my wife works. They spend six months doing interviews of thirty references and doing endless background checks on new hires.

44 posted on 05/01/2012 2:16:35 PM PDT by blackdog (There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
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To: RFEngineer
No matter what happens with Obamacare, employers will still be unable to profitably operate forever when medical costs exceed inflation. Many have already reached that point. So, again, then what?

I would say trust the marketplace to come up with affordable products. We can use tort reform, Health Savings Accounts, and allowing access to out of state health insurance to level the playing field. We can offer tax breaks for individuals to purchase health insurance similar to what employers get. And we can allow the individual more freedom in the kinds of coverage they want and need. In addition, employees will have to pay more for such plans.

There are really all kinds of proposals out there on how to fix the health care system. Medicare is the real problem and the most difficult to fix. People receive three times what they contributed to the system.


45 posted on 05/01/2012 2:22:42 PM PDT by kabar
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To: ColdOne
Employers could save billions by dropping workers from health plans
Using the Fairtax theory of, if this then that, if that then this, there would be immediate price reductions as a result of the savings.
46 posted on 05/01/2012 2:25:16 PM PDT by lewislynn ( What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in commom? Misinformation)
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To: kabar

“I would say trust the marketplace to come up with affordable products”

I agree with you completely here, too. The problem is that the marketplace is distorted by Medicare. Medicare drives demand for services - but then does not pay for them - providers have to make up the gap by cost-shifting.

That should be illegal. If providers cannot be profitable with medicare, they should go out of business or not accept medicare - and not be allowed to cost-shift.

So the marketplace cannot come up with affordable products when demand/cost is driven outside of the very same marketplace

“Medicare is the real problem and the most difficult to fix. People receive three times what they contributed to the system. “

Exactly. But it’s exactly this same issue that makes it such a great “value” for the voters that get it (and therefore difficult for politicians to change). If you insist people pay for the services consumed, they claim you are “trying to kill them”.

The other potential solution is to disallow charging different prices for the same service - again, providers will have to charge their cost of providing - it’s up to the consumer to work out terms of payment - whether cash, insurance, or some other method.

this again distorts the marketplace.


47 posted on 05/01/2012 5:20:51 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: NonValueAdded

“Start with tort reform.”

Then disallow cost-shifting from medicare or large group plans, then disallow different prices for the same service, then allow alternative medical providers, over-the-counter sales for almost all drugs.....lots of things.

Medicare is the big problem though. It drives demand and sucks out any potential for cost-efficient medical care for those not on medicare, or paying cash.

It’s also socialized medicine, and should be antithetical to every American - but even conservatives will fight for it, so we’re not in a strong position to make any changes.


48 posted on 05/01/2012 5:26:04 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: blackdog

Failure to provide the documentation is an excuse to drop even those who should legitimately be covered. Refusal to provide documentation also gives them a reason to drop you.


49 posted on 05/01/2012 5:33:50 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: RFEngineer
That should be illegal. If providers cannot be profitable with medicare, they should go out of business or not accept medicare - and not be allowed to cost-shift.

Medicare reimbursement rates are already low so about 12% of doctors no longer accept Medicare patients. And it is worth remembering that 90% of Medicare recipients have supplementary insurance to cover the costs Medicare doesn't. 40% of doctors no longer accept Medicaid patients. Imposing government rates on procedures distorts the market. And patients don't care about costs since they really don't see or pay them in the case of Medicare or Medicaid.

The premium support plan offered by Ryan puts the responsibility more on the patient. If you are interested in reading something about how to fix Medicare, here is an article (written in 2007 but still relevant) by Tom Saving, someone who was a long time public member of the SS Board of Trustees and who I had the pleasure of meeting and discussing the Medicare issue with during a seminar.

We are going to have to ration health care. The only question is who will do it--the government, the insurance companies, or the patient. I favor the patient. We can reduce some health costs if the patient is the one selecting the health services and controlling the allocation of funds. It will force the market to be more competitive.

50 posted on 05/01/2012 7:49:16 PM PDT by kabar
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