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Analysis: Nicolas Sarkozy's miracle is nowhere to be seen at Paris debate
The Telegraph UK ^ | 5/3/12 | Benedict Brogan, Paris

Posted on 05/02/2012 4:57:32 PM PDT by Cincinna

Nicolas Sarkozy needed a miracle last night to head off a defeat that looks increasingly inevitable. A marathon, at times violent debate with Francois Hollande was his chance to knock the challenger off his increasingly confident stride. But despite some brutal exchanges, he failed to produce a killer blow.

Twenty million people were expected to tune in for a contest that lasted nearly three hours and was broadcast on all networks. It was a real debate, the presenters reduced to mute timekeepers as the candidates knocked spots off each other.

There was no quarter given. Mr Sarkozy called his opponent a liar and suggested he should have known about fellow socialist Dominique Strauss Kahn’s varied sex life; Mr Hollande described him as arrogant and tried to smear him back by raising a corruption scandal.

On Europe, taxes, immigration and above all what the character of a president should be, they argued over detail – often to impenetrable depth - and levelled charges of dishonesty and bad faith against each other. They even dredged up decades-old accusations of political double dealing.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: debate; europeanunion; france; frenchelection; germany; sarkozyvhollande; socialiasm; unitedkingdom

*** OFFICIAL FR DEBATE THREAD POST YOUR COMMENTS HERE***


*** FRENCH POLITICS AND CULTURE PING LIST ***


*** FREEPMAIL ME IF YOU WANT TO JOIN  ***


I WILL UPDATE AFTER THE DEBATE IS REBROADCAST IN FULL ON AMERICAN TV

Stay informed  about the French elections in detail.

1 posted on 05/02/2012 4:57:45 PM PDT by Cincinna
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To: Cincinna

Two socialists duking it out, setting the stage for November in this country.


2 posted on 05/02/2012 5:07:17 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Cincinna; afraidfortherepublic; mojo114; seenenuf; LucyT; Think free or die; DollyCali; ...

Knockdown drag out debate- almost three hours. No notes, no TOTUS. Moderators were just timekeepers.

This is the way debates should be. I cannot imagine American candidates debating like this. Only Sarah might meet the test?

From what I’ve seen so far, Hollande is evasive, and Sarko clear.

Especially on immigration and taxes, on French national identity, and Islam.

In reading news reports , please keep in mind that most newspapers are very leftist in Europe, just like here.

I’m trying to watch and give you as objective a view as possible. Hollande is a socialist, Sarko is definitely not. I’m translating as fast as I can, and have to tell you, reading the transcripts and commentaries and watching the actual debate as the French voters actually watched it are very different.

STAY TUNED!

Please feel free to pose questions and comments.
À bientôt!


3 posted on 05/02/2012 5:13:12 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: GeronL

WRONG! What comes through the clearest is that Hollande is a Socialist,
and Sarko is definitely not. Sarko is the exact opposite. Nicolas Sarkozy is not, and has never been, and never been associated with Socialism or Marxism of any kind.


4 posted on 05/02/2012 5:19:22 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna
No TOTUS

I didn't think he would be invated after the way he has treated Sarko! Lol

Sarah could do it, that is for sure, I would pay money to watch her put the smack-down on someone like Hollande. (but Ubama is her punching-bag most of the time anyway, even if she isn't running)

I just don't understand why Hollande is evening being considered, he is promising the END of the french way of life. The Lefties want their goodies, but once the Commie/Islamist Alliance takes hold, you think that the Green Eyed stupid 19 year old girl in Lyon is high on their list of people to please!?

I will keep up as much I can Cincinna.

5 posted on 05/02/2012 5:32:56 PM PDT by KC_Lion (A Romney victory means that the socialistsÂ’ takeover of both parties is now complete)
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To: Cincinna
From what I gather it's personal. If it were just about policy Sarkozy might win, but the French have really come to hate him.

It sounds like France wanted a tough guy, a gutpuncher, thinking he'd solve their problems, but as time went on they decided they wanted a fall guy, somebody to pin all those insoluble problems on. As in some marriages, it was the little things that drove them crazy, the way Sarko was, not any thing major he may have done or failed to do.

Maybe this whole DSK thing didn't help. Speculation that Sarkozy may have been involved could have dragged his campaign down and the country started looking for someone cleaner. I'm not folloing this closely, but it could be France is going to get its Jimmy Carter, the guy who doesn't have the baggage other politicians do, but doesn't have much in the way of other advantages. Sarko would have been better off trying his luck against Strauss-Kahn.

6 posted on 05/02/2012 5:37:03 PM PDT by x
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To: Cincinna

He may not be a socialist, but he certainly wasn’t governing as a nationalist when he was selling his sovereignty to the Germans.


7 posted on 05/02/2012 5:37:09 PM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: x

Neh, probably had more to do with the bailouts of other sovereign nations. Bad enough Bush did that with US banks, but I couldn’t see myself voting for anyone that stole my money and put me in the hole to bail out Spain because the butch woman in Germany told me to.


8 posted on 05/02/2012 5:41:34 PM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: Cincinna

Even the National Front is leftist by our standards.

Has Sarkozy done anything to reduce the size and scope of their government? Sold off state industries? deregulation? things like that?


9 posted on 05/02/2012 7:15:05 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Cincinna

This guy also wanted to use public funds to build MOSQUES and exempt Islam from the Separation of Church and State.

In September 2004, Sarkozy oversaw the reduction of the government ownership stake in France Télécom from 50.4 percent to 41 percent.[39]
Sarkozy backed a partial nationalisation of the large engineering company Alstom decided by his predecessor when the company was exposed to bankruptcy in 2003.[40]
In June 2004, Sarkozy reached an agreement with the major retail chains in France to concertedly lower prices on household goods by an average of two percent; the success of this measure is disputed, with studies suggesting that the decrease was close to one percent in September.[41]
Taxes: Sarkozy avoided taking a position on the ISF (solidarity tax on wealth). This is considered an ideological symbol by many on the left and right. Some in the business world and on the liberal right, such as Alain Madelin, wanted it abolished. For Sarkozy, that would have risked being categorised by the left as a gift to the richest classes of society at a time of economic difficulties.

He also supported affirmative action and crap.

....

He is NOT a conservative by US standards by any stretch.


10 posted on 05/02/2012 7:27:19 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Cincinna

well all I could find on line were briefs and snippets of this debate adn I had hoped to see it....

Am trusting you Cincinna to let us know how you would wrap it up. I’m in Sarkosy’s court....hope he wins this...but looks like some of the French want “a change”. You’d think they’d have learned from the US how that works! Not!!


11 posted on 05/02/2012 7:42:03 PM PDT by caww
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To: GeronL

The National Front = National Socialism is definitely socialist and leftist.
Sarkozy is not.


12 posted on 05/02/2012 7:44:20 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: GeronL

France is not the US. Sarko is the closest thing to an Anglo-Saxon rightwing politician you are going to see.

That is the reason Sarkozy is so hated by the left in France.


13 posted on 05/02/2012 7:48:33 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna

Sarkozy who proposed government funded Mosques and Madrassas, exempting Islam from the Separation of Church and State... who partially nationalized at least one corporation.... is a conservative? Not even close by US standards.


14 posted on 05/02/2012 7:49:14 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Cincinna; afraidfortherepublic; mojo114; seenenuf; LucyT; Think free or die; DollyCali; ...

*** UPDATE OFFICIAL FR DEBATE THREAD POST YOUR COMMENTS HERE***

*** FRENCH POLITICS AND CULTURE PING LIST ***

*** FREEPMAIL ME IF YOU WANT TO JOIN  ***

I WILL UPDATE AGAIN TOMORROW WHEN THE NEW POLLS COME OUT 

   

After watching the entire debate, and trying to maintain some level of objectivity, these are my conclusions.   

In the first half hour, maybe even hour, Hollande seemed competent. His months of debate coaching and prep helped him.    

After the first hour, I think things fell apart, and Hollande was in over his head, and resorted to platitudes, attacks, and avoidance.       

Sarkozy is definitely the smarter of the two, the most experienced, and a natural debater.       

The weakest areas for Hollande were on immigration, refusing to deal with the issue straight on, seemingly looking to the FN voters, and on the issue of nuclear energy on which he was totally incoherent.    

Sarkozy was very strong on not giving the right to vote to immigrants, and the danger that the huge influx of Muslims who refuse to integrate into French society and the rise of radical Islam present. This has changed the nature of French society.    

Even though Sarkozy was extremely strong, I don't think the debate, which lasted three hours, will change much.   

I hope I'm wrong. A socialist in power in France would be a catastrophe for France, which is the fifth largest economy in the world.    

15 posted on 05/02/2012 9:27:49 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna

Thanks very much for the update and assessment. I’m sure glad Sarkosy came in strong...but my gosh three hours of debating! Wow.....does any of the public stay with it that long?

I would have liked to see Newt and Obama in that kind of debate...round one Obama would be on the floor. Course it’s not going to happen but it was great imagining it.

Am hopeful the French people will stay with Sarkosy....his alternative will indeed be disastorus for France...and actually all of Europe IMO. I don’t think many Americans understand the signifigance of France now in the International Affairs going on.


16 posted on 05/02/2012 9:41:33 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

I’ll try and find a link to a video of the debate and post it.

This was the longest debate in modern French history.


17 posted on 05/02/2012 9:54:10 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: caww

Yes, almost three uninterrupted hours of debate was something!
I, too, was hoping for a Newt/Obama face-off, but the American system is completely different. That would have been a three way debate- Newt/Obama/TOTUS.
In this Hollande did use some notes, but Sarko didn’t appear to.
French people do sit glued to the TV. 20 million people watched this debate.
You might check
http://www.France24.com/
They have a version in Englush as well as French.


18 posted on 05/02/2012 10:01:36 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: All

Here is a very good description and summary of the French Presidential debate. Fairly accurate, and not particularly partisan.

Sarkozy and Hollande trade barbs in heated TV debate
Click here to read the article:
http://www.france24.com/en/node/5320244


19 posted on 05/02/2012 10:19:05 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna

with subtitles, if possible s’il vous plait!


20 posted on 05/02/2012 10:45:20 PM PDT by Yehuda (www.jewpoint.blogspot.com)
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To: Cincinna
A socialist in power in France would be a catastrophe for France, which is the fifth largest economy in the world.

I shudder to think about that - it's bad enough what's going on here in the US with our own home-grown socialist.

Thanks so much for your updates, Cincinna... I haven't had much time to keep up with the campaigns in France. I appreciate your comments.

21 posted on 05/02/2012 11:15:28 PM PDT by nutmeg (Rest in peace, and thank you, Andrew Breitbart)
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To: Cincinna; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Thanks Cincinna. Sarko swung the election back his way with his rousing speech the other night and now this debate performance. Holland’s going to wind up wetting his pants, then falling down and breaking both legs.


22 posted on 05/02/2012 11:31:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Cincinna

I WILL UPDATE AFTER THE DEBATE IS REBROADCAST IN FULL ON AMERICAN TV


Can you find video online of the debate with english translation?


23 posted on 05/02/2012 11:40:10 PM PDT by cornfedcowboy (Trust in God, but empty the clip.)
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To: Cincinna
Thanks again...I'll check out the link... WoW! 20 million watched that...pretty remarkable. I see the media thinks it won't affect the voters but they are mistaken I think...debates 'do' matter. Evidence of that was Romneys refusal to take on Newt one on one.

What an insane world of politics here and overseas....but then they are fighting for positions in the world order coming and the "Power Tease" for those positions can be beyond tantalizing!

24 posted on 05/03/2012 11:45:50 AM PDT by caww
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To: Cincinna; afraidfortherepublic; mojo114; seenenuf; LucyT; Think free or die; DollyCali; ...
 

According to the latest Ifop poll data for today, May 4, the numbers have moved some in Sarko's favor, continuing the trend since the first round.  HOLLANDE 52% SARKOZY 48%

Neither the endorsement of centrist François, (a first: no centrist has ever aligned with the Socialists)  nor the debate has moved the numbers.       

Because of French law, election campaigning must end at midnight tonight (6pm EST)

Hollande, who is in way over his head, and actually yawned during the debate, is angry about Obama's apparent support for Sarko.   

Sources close to the WH, say the Obama administration is very concerned about a possible socialist victory. we all know Obama has only one thing in his mind, his own re-election, and being forced to deal with a socialist, and be photographed with a socialist is the last thing his campaign wants. Especially since Hollande is completely unknown in the US. Obama doesn't even know Hollande, has never met him.  Sarkozy, OTOH, has a huge personal following in the US, and received the overwhelming majority of votes of French citizens living in the US in the first round.   

With a media blackout after tonight, there will be no news.   

If anything comes up, I'll keep you all posted. 

A win is still possible, and if the numbers continue to tighten, it would make it difficult, if not impossible, for a socialist government to form a strong majority, and implement their policies.   The legislative elections are in June. 

25 posted on 05/04/2012 1:27:21 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna

Thanks, Cincinna. It’s been so helpful to have your info and updates. Fingers are crossed that when they step in the booth the French will vote to stay with Sarko. Even IF he and BHO have been saying nice things about each other lately.


26 posted on 05/04/2012 2:42:50 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: Cincinna
Thanks for the update. Last I heard the gap between the two was 8-10% so if your Ifop poll is accurate that's good news.

Don't know the different polling agencies, so I have no idea what Ifop is.

Sunday will be interesting.

27 posted on 05/04/2012 3:57:20 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Cincinna; afraidfortherepublic; mojo114; seenenuf; LucyT; Think free or die; DollyCali; ...

*** UPDATE OFFICIAL FR DEBATE THREAD POST YOUR COMMENTS HERE***

*** FRENCH POLITICS AND CULTURE PING LIST ***

*** FREEPMAIL ME IF YOU WANT TO JOIN  ***

I WILL UPDATE AS MORE INFO IS AVAILABLE 

 LATEST POLL FROM IFOP 52-48   This narrowing continues the trend that began after the first round which Sarko list by 1.5%   

From a senior analysts and specialist on polling: “Watch Friday’s polls closely,” said Dominique Reynie, a senior research at Paris’s Institute of Political Studies. “If they show another narrowing, then Sarko has a chance. There’s no reason why the trend wouldn’t continue through the weekend.”

Also: From the FT via Drudge: Wealthy French eye move across the Channel Fear of 75% tax rate prompts many to look at London, Brussels, Singapore and NY to escape the 75% confiscatory tax on income of high wage earners. 

Of course they will take not only their money with them, but their businesses, jobs, and purchasing power.  

Socialism stinks, and they all fear it. 

28 posted on 05/04/2012 10:44:50 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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