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Accident-Zone: Poorer Neighborhoods Have Less-Safe Road Designs (Give me a BARF...)
Scientific American ^ | 5/3/12 | Sarah Fecht

Posted on 05/03/2012 11:50:50 PM PDT by LibWhacker

Traffic injuries are four to six times higher in low-income areas of Montreal, compared with wealthy neighborhoods. Researchers find that better road designs could reduce those disparities

Approximately 40,000 people will die on U.S. roads this year, and thousands more will be injured. A disproportionate number of those traffic injuries will befall people from lower-income communities. According to new research, pedestrians in the poorest neighborhoods of Montreal were six times more likely to suffer traffic injuries than pedestrians in the wealthiest neighborhoods. Bicyclists and motorists in poorer neighborhoods were also at greater risk; they were four times more likely to be injured on the road.

(Excerpt) Read more at scientificamerican.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: neighborhoods; poor; roads; safe
Sorry, couldn't resist this one. If he wins, I wonder how many trillions of dollars Barry will want after the election to fix this inequity, in other words, to redistribute the safe infrastructure, so to speak (and not incidentally, bankrupt America)?
1 posted on 05/03/2012 11:50:58 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Depends into which state Montreal will be annexed.


2 posted on 05/03/2012 11:56:34 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: LibWhacker
Traffic injuries are four to six times higher in low-income areas ...

What is so shocking about this fact. Low income cities do not have the money to put into infrastructure, such as sidewalks, cross walks and other traffic safety measures. That would seem to be pretty darn obvious. Maybe I am missing the main point of the article.

3 posted on 05/04/2012 12:00:53 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

LOL. And people who live in better neighborhoods also have a sense of responsibility and fear of losing their livelihood through stupid accidents. We tend to not get into our punked up cars and speed through the neighborhood for attention. Another no brainer, common sense issue given research money.


4 posted on 05/04/2012 12:12:35 AM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: LibWhacker

But here is the part that is totally brilliant:

“These results are part of a growing body of literature that shows road design has an impact on safety”

Now I never would have guessed that.


5 posted on 05/04/2012 12:21:36 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: pops88

That is not a valid response. Come on, let us keep this a serious discussion.


6 posted on 05/04/2012 12:28:19 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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Women and Minorities Hardest “HIT”


7 posted on 05/04/2012 12:42:17 AM PDT by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ. In the US the number is 54%)
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To: LibWhacker

Poor = Black

Don’t the doom and gloom hand wringers know we have figured out their code-talk?


8 posted on 05/04/2012 12:45:30 AM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repub's paid as much attention to Rush Limbaugh as the Dem's do, we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: LibWhacker

I’m so old, I remember when Scientific American was a journal of SCIENCE.


9 posted on 05/04/2012 1:55:22 AM PDT by Lazamataz (To the wall, street occupiers!!!!!)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

What rules out this hypothesis?

Some of it may be lack of funds to modernize the infrstructure. But part of it may be devil-may-care idiots on the streets.


10 posted on 05/04/2012 2:21:24 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Away with them and the high horses they rode in on.)
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To: LibWhacker

Black people like to walk in the street even if there are sidewalks. I wonder...


11 posted on 05/04/2012 2:43:15 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Right Wing Assault

I live near an inner-city and it’s amazing: the residents will cross against the light, in the middle of the street, with children in tow! When I questioned a friend about this, he said: they think they own the streets and you’re an interloper.


12 posted on 05/04/2012 3:23:54 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: Right Wing Assault
Black people like to walk in the street even if there are sidewalks.

Yup, I'd never seen anything like it till I lived in the city for a while. About 10 years ago, a young mother and her baby were struck by a car and killed (this was in Buffalo.) The media spent days deploring the condition of city curbs and crosswalks and oh dear, oh dear, what can we do?

They never once mentioned that she'd been walking in the street on a dark, rainy night. You can't fix stupid.

13 posted on 05/04/2012 3:31:36 AM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: miss marmelstein

Your observations coincide with mine. In addition the local grocery or Walmart stores frequented by people from poor neighborhoods are dangerous places traffic-wise. Maybe the study should do a demographics study to coincide with the road study.


14 posted on 05/04/2012 3:35:57 AM PDT by BilLies ( The Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , PBS etc., hate your Loyal American guts!))
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To: BilLies

That study would be too un-P.C.!


15 posted on 05/04/2012 4:01:11 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: LibWhacker
As a civil engineer whose work includes a lot of issues related to roadway design and traffic safety, I can assure you that this article is a lot of nonsense.

There are many, many factors that come into play regarding accident statistics, with street design being only one of them. As soon as I saw "Montreal" in the title I knew where this was going. That's an old city with many narrow streets and a driving population filled with people of marginal driving skills, so it's no surprise that pedestrians (the particular group discussed in detail in the article) don't fare well in the older parts of the city.

16 posted on 05/04/2012 4:03:13 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: gunsequalfreedom
Actually, Montreal is a pretty wealthy city by most objective standards. What the author of this article is claiming is that its poor neighborhoods are more dangerous for pedestrians than wealthy neighborhoods.

Well, there might be a point there from a purely statistical standpoint ... but I'm not sure the author's recommendations (improve streets, add landscaping, eliminate four-way intersections where possible, etc.) will do anything in the long run. If these measures are adopted, the city's poor neighborhoods will become more attractive places to live ... and they won't be poor neighborhoods anymore. Then the whole process will start all over again. Eventually, the streets in the poor neighborhoods of Montreal (wherever they are in 50 years) will still be less safe than the streets in the wealthy neighborhoods. Then there will be another "crisis" to solve -- even if those poor neighborhoods 50 years from now are safer than wealthy neighboroods are today.

17 posted on 05/04/2012 4:23:55 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: LibWhacker
didn't they used to be wealthy neighborhoods at one time??? before urban renewal or whatever
18 posted on 05/04/2012 4:34:39 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: LibWhacker

Poor neighborhoods tend to be older, where streets and buildings date back decades before wide streets were common, before digital traffic signs and handicap ramps. Wealthier tends to be newer and/or revitalized and updated.


19 posted on 05/04/2012 5:09:37 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: LibWhacker

http://w3.chabad.org/media/images/481/jJeP4811197.jpg


20 posted on 05/04/2012 5:18:22 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: gunsequalfreedom

I have to agreed with those who point at the victims. I’ve seen minoritu after minority brazenly cross the streets like they were at the mall. I’ve seen numerous cars that are tricked out with a great stereo , low profile tires, and fancy hubs. But you can heard the sounds of their car falling apart, like the clicking of CV joints.


21 posted on 05/04/2012 5:45:29 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: LibWhacker

I know this is in Montreal, but there are streets in NW Austin (leftover hippies and liberals) that have the worst streets in the city. I’ve been on country field / dirt roads that were smoother.


22 posted on 05/04/2012 6:22:20 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It's time to take out the trash in DC.)
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To: LibWhacker

***I wonder how many trillions of dollars Barry will want after the election to fix this inequity****

It’s called TRAFFIC JUSTICE you reisust you!


23 posted on 05/04/2012 6:46:43 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Arrowhead1952

I recall a remark at a community meeting here in DC from one of the local officers that the “Compstat” numbers which gave crime concentrations tended to correspond to traffic accident concentrations.

This study seems to confirm that correlation is not cause. At the very least, one needs to consider that one lives in a bad neighborhood because one has bad life skills. That might include driving maturely.

I quit SA after 40+ years when it went political with global warming. Haven’t looked back. It simply isn’t that old SA.


24 posted on 05/04/2012 6:47:55 AM PDT by Blagden Alley
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To: dsrtsage

***Women and Minorities Hardest “HIT”***

Women and young girls also “knocked down”!


25 posted on 05/04/2012 6:48:19 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: LibWhacker

Maybe, just maybe, population density has something to do with it. let’s try mandating that all urban residences be single family with 2 acre zoning and see what happens : ]


26 posted on 05/04/2012 6:53:03 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: LevinFan

Let’s take the race part out of the story and use for the sake of our discussion this premise. Two towns with predominant white populations. One rich. One poor.

It is my contention that the city with good finances can afford side walks, cross walks and other measures to keep pedestrians safe. The poor city, the city with a much lower budget, does not have funds to keep pedestrians safe.

Can we agree on that premise and my point?


27 posted on 05/04/2012 7:24:59 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Alberta's Child

I think we are in agreement. You made the point very clear, obviously much better than I managed to.


28 posted on 05/04/2012 7:27:44 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Illegals do the same thing because the middle of the street is considered a “neutral” zone.

Illegals from different countries just don’t like each other. They don’t allow each other to enter their space. Their space in front of their house extends to the road, not the sidewalk.

If illegals from one country enter into the space of illegals from another country, they are asking for a fight, so they walk down the middle of the road which is neutral territory.


29 posted on 05/04/2012 7:46:07 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Not really. I live in the tampa florida area. We provide cross walk and such, but people don’t use them. They just dart across the street at will, or amble across counting on traffic to protect them. What good is a cross walk they won’t use?

I’ve spent plenty of time in places with poor pedestrian features, without an epidemic of accidents. Staying safety has more to do with proper attitudes than with cross walks and such, but people don’t use them.


30 posted on 05/04/2012 8:00:46 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Blagden Alley
which gave crime concentrations tended to correspond to traffic accident concentrations.

That also applies to Austin. There are more traffic accidents east of IH 35 in the rough neighborhoods and much more crime too. It's almost a given that there will be an accident at Loyola and 183 on a daily basis.

31 posted on 05/04/2012 8:02:10 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It's time to take out the trash in DC.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

I used to live on Mercer Island, a few doors down from Paul Allen’s compound. I would ride my bike to work in Downtown Seattle via West Mercer Way. It was a very nice, smooth twisty along the west side of the island. By anyone’s standards the road was in excellent condition. And bike commuters know a good road when they ride on one. :-)

One day I’m coming home from work and they are repaving the whole danged thing! Meanwhile, some of the roads I traveled in Seattle needed to be repaved DECADES ago.

So yeah, I rich tax base is gonna have nicer roads.


32 posted on 05/04/2012 8:07:42 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Right Wing Assault

—Black people like to walk in the street even if there are sidewalks.—

And often very slowly. I felt guilty when I first caught myself noticing that. But It’s universal. Noticing that they walk slowly is like noticing they are black. I don’t understand it, though.


33 posted on 05/04/2012 8:09:55 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Yeah, it’s not a stretch to assume that lower-income areas have dumber people living there, people with poor judgment.


34 posted on 05/04/2012 8:10:38 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Alberta's Child

It may simply not be possible to re-engineer some of these streets without a lot of demolition of buildings too. If pedestrians won’t exercise common sense in an area with narrow sidewalks and streets, there isn’t much that can be done to make them do it. Are they going to have jaywalking police on the scene all day?


35 posted on 05/04/2012 8:22:30 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Away with them and the high horses they rode in on.)
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To: cuban leaf
I don’t understand it, though.

Racist black people (of which there is a much higher percentage than racist white people) look at what white people do and then do the opposite.

Whites walk briskly to where we are going. So black racists walk slowly. We look happy. So they look angry. We arrive on time. So they arrive late. We act civilized. So they act, uh, uncivilized. We wear our clothes and they fit. So they buy twelve sizes too big and let them fall around their ankles. We eat in restaurants and our homes. So they walk down the street eating and drinking. We talk to each other. So they talk to each other as loudly as they can and make sure to laugh as loudly as they can. We don't give a crap about bling (unless we are actors). So they think it is important. We think gold front teeth look stupid. So they think it looks great. We talk so people can understand us. So they talk so no one can understand them.

They are stuck on "Opposite Day."

36 posted on 05/04/2012 12:26:18 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: BfloGuy

We were in Philly one day and people just walked right in front of our car without even looking. I could easily have killed five people that day.


37 posted on 05/04/2012 12:28:41 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

I beg to differ. I had to drive through a ghetto to get to work for 14 years and base my comments on that experience. There were sidewalk, traffic lights and crosswalks, the same as in affluent areas. Poverty tends to produce uneducated people that do stupid things, like jay walking, ignoring traffic signals, wandering drunk/high into traffic, fleeing police, car jacking, throwing bricks though car windows, street racing, etc. The police told us when we drove through the area at night not to stop at the red lights, but to just slow down and keep on going. I think the research is flawed.


38 posted on 05/04/2012 1:14:25 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: Right Wing Assault
We were in Philly one day and people just walked right in front of our car without even looking.

I used to fantasize about putting up a sign in front of my house saying "Sidewalks for whites only." Wondered if it would cause some to start using them out of defiance. I didn't, of course, for the obvious reason.

39 posted on 05/04/2012 2:57:22 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: BfloGuy
i>"Sidewalks for whites only."

Good one!

Many years ago I thought a similar thing about education. "Black students are not allowed to study for school."

40 posted on 05/04/2012 6:02:28 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Thanks. It’s an interesting case up there in Montreal. It’s very similar to New York City in a lot of ways ... lots of rich and poor, and most of the middle class lives in the suburbs.


41 posted on 05/04/2012 6:58:43 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: HiTech RedNeck

In that case, the engineering would involve narrowing the street to make room for a wider sidewalk. The key is to have a street that works in the context of the area where it is located. Having an eight-lane wide boulevard in an area with lots of pedestrians doesn’t make any sense, for example.


42 posted on 05/04/2012 7:07:34 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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