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State Bonds in Jeopardy as Tobacco Cash Fades
New York Times ^ | 03 May 2012 | Mary Williams Walsh

Posted on 05/04/2012 4:18:02 PM PDT by Lorianne

Steady declines in smoking, a big win for public health, are creating problems for municipal bond investors.

A handful of bonds backed by yearly payments from tobacco companies under a landmark settlement with 46 states are in the earliest stages of default, and more distress is expected.

Dozens of states, counties and cities issued the bonds to receive billions of dollars upfront from the 1998 settlement. But now they are seeing smaller payments than expected from the companies as tobacco sales decline in America. There is also a renewed legal battle between the states and the tobacco companies, with the companies holding back nearly $8 billion in settlement payments, pending resolution.

So far, California, Ohio and Virginia, as well as Nassau County in New York, have resorted to tapping special tobacco-bond reserves to pay their bondholders, something analysts consider a technical default because it effectively means the bondholders are being paid with their own money.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: antitobacco; bonds; tobacco; tobaccosettlement

1 posted on 05/04/2012 4:18:09 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

Just charge $20 per pack!


2 posted on 05/04/2012 4:22:33 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Lorianne

They wanted folks to Quit smoking so they did, now they are crying becuse they thought to be a cash cow died.

Consequences hurt don’t they.


3 posted on 05/04/2012 4:23:36 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Lorianne

Wow, that was unexpected. >s


4 posted on 05/04/2012 4:24:33 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Lorianne
...it effectively means the bondholders are being paid with their own money.

What a nightmare that has been created by these bumbling, yet devious fools.

Photobucket

5 posted on 05/04/2012 4:25:28 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Lorianne

I thought the states were supposed to save all sorts of money in medical costs when they got people to quit smoking. So where are all those realized savings?


6 posted on 05/04/2012 4:27:24 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Just charge $20 per pack!

That's a stupid idea and won't accomplish anything!

.

.

.

Charge $300/pack.

7 posted on 05/04/2012 4:28:54 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Lorianne

How about an Obamacare-style solution — quit smoking but if you don’t continue to pay the tobacco taxes you can be fined, taxed, whatever by the IRS?


8 posted on 05/04/2012 4:29:40 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: SandRat
I never knew there was a bond connection to tobacco sales but, hey ... this is just another example of do-gooders getting their way and .. my my ... will y'look at this ... no money.

I've tried to quit altogether and so far have found it impossible.
I HAVE lowered my intake dramatically so I don't feel too bad.

I was talking to a guy today and he said that his doctor had told him a heavy smoker quitting runs a bigger chance of heart attack

Don't know if it's true, but this report is a humurously exciting thing to read.

9 posted on 05/04/2012 4:29:51 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Lorianne
Morons.

They win a huge settlement. Then they raise taxes on the product. Then they demonize and prevent its use. Then they borrow money on the revenue stream. Then there is no revenue stream.

Morons.

10 posted on 05/04/2012 4:32:00 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper

Yep, these people are as sharp as bowling balls.


11 posted on 05/04/2012 4:47:10 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Cementjungle
I thought the states were supposed to save all sorts of money in medical costs when they got people to quit smoking. So where are all those realized savings?

People have to die of SOMETHING. If not lung cancer, then something else. So people live longer, and consume more medical care with all the failings of old age.

12 posted on 05/04/2012 4:52:20 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: Lorianne
the bondholders are being paid with their own money

Just like in a Ponzi scheme.

13 posted on 05/04/2012 5:01:46 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class!)
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To: Lorianne

“issued the bonds to receive billions of dollars upfront “

Greedy idiots.
Paying a premium to get the money upfront (and spent right away) instead of waiting for the payments.


14 posted on 05/04/2012 5:10:46 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: mrsmith
There was never going to be any payments.

As soon as they ratcheted up the taxes to the point of ridiculousness, then prohibited use of the products almost anywhere, I went elsewhere.

First I went to the internet vendors. When they shut that down, I went to the Indian Reservations, when they "equalized" that, I went to the roll-your-own methods, when they "equalized" that, I went to the grey market, when that got shut off, I went to either Al Quaeda or the Mexican drug cartels, I don't really care which it is.

I guess I'm okay now because nobody has the political courage to shut either of those sources off.

You can now buy a carton of any brand of cigarettes anywhere in this country for 1/3 the price charged by any legitimate retailer.

Smugglers and the black market are alive, well, and thriving. Kind of like what is going on with whole milk and other consumables.

15 posted on 05/04/2012 5:54:22 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper

Wow! I’m still doing ‘make your own’ cigs for 1/6 the price of manufactured smokes. Could do it for even less if I didn’t mix in some delicious premium tobaccos.

Crime gangs- the Crips, Bloods and likewise favored Dem ones- no doubt are counting on getting the whole market when they get their people back in control of the House.
It’ll be a good laugh to hear the media say the Dems are ‘doing it for the children’ then...


16 posted on 05/04/2012 6:31:33 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: knarf

Have you tried smoking a pipe? You can grow your own tobacco or just buy the already dried leaves and cut them yourself. Saves a ton of (tax) money.


17 posted on 05/04/2012 6:42:46 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: BipolarBob
Nahhh .. I've accepted the oral fixatuion, the habit, the addiction and whatever else.

What galls me is I enjoy smoking.

I like the taste and etc. ... I just wish it wasn't killing me, that's all.

18 posted on 05/04/2012 6:46:12 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: elkfersupper

I like you. I like you a lot.


19 posted on 05/04/2012 6:51:04 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lorianne
Well since this is about smoking quitting is not enough.

I do not have the link for the original study but here is some information.

"Researchers looked at over 400,000 people, comparing the level of vitamin B6 in their blood with their risk of later developing lung cancer. Those with above median levels of vitamin B6, were found to have a 50% lower risk of developing lung cancer 5 years later." Also required is "high levels of the essential amino acid methionine." And quitting is not enough. "The majority - yes the majority - of people who develop lung cancer now are former smokers, not current smokers."

"But for both current and former smokers above average levels of B6 and methionine reduced the risk by 50%."

Here

I do not like this: "It's important to note that this study was not a supplement study. Some vitamin supplements have actually been linked with a higher risk of developing lung cancer." I have read that vitamin E is an example but I have also read that nothing has been proved.

20 posted on 05/04/2012 8:31:29 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I know you’re joking, or *think* you are .. but in NYC it’s already just shy of $12/pack.


21 posted on 05/04/2012 8:54:33 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: elkfersupper

The bonds are non-recourse as a rule. The plaintiff states and municipalities sold off the payment stream leaving the bond-buyers are at risk for declining smoking, not the bond sellers. Indeed, as the states and municipalities created new taxes subsequently (which they keep) they directly entered into competition with the bondholders, as the higher total pack price cuts (non-bootleg) buying even further.


22 posted on 05/04/2012 9:04:08 PM PDT by only1percent
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To: only1percent

I’m intimately familiar with revenue bonds. There are still going to be bondholder suits.


23 posted on 05/05/2012 3:15:34 AM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: EDINVA

Yes, I was joking but I didn’t realize they were that expensive there already. I don’t smoke but from what I understand most places have cigarettes for around five to six dollars a pack.


24 posted on 05/05/2012 7:04:25 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Lorianne
Ah, ha! The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.

1. Smoking is bad. Therefore, raise taxes on cigarettes.

2, Smoking is bad. Demonize smokers and restrict where they can smoke.

3. Smoking is bad. Fund programs to get smokers to quit.

Add 1 through 3 together and you get DECREASED REVENUES to the taxing bodies of government.

Result: PANIC!

Smoking is good. Support your local Islamist cell or narco gang who are smuggling the smokes into the country. (Note: Tax revenue still still keeps going down and bond holders are about to be screwed. Scratch that . . . bond holders AND taxpayers are being lined up to get screwed.)

25 posted on 05/05/2012 10:24:50 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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