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Are you an ABO like me PO'd at JR for getting called a RINO? Truce declared! Please DONATE!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2879805/posts?q=1&;page=1#1 ^ | May 6, 2012 | Seizethecarp

Posted on 05/06/2012 8:09:35 AM PDT by Seizethecarp

Attention "Anyone But Obama" (ABO) FReepers! If you go to the thread at the link you will will see that JimRob has "declared a truce" and hundreds of ABO FReepers are now vigorously defending their belief, which I share, that the ineligible Marxist Manchurian MUST BE DEFEATED to preserve the Republic...without fear of "the ZOT"! Please consider a DONATION not just to fund renewal of expression and amplification of your ABO views, but let's over-achieve this FReepathon to get JR his new equipment!

IMO, Free Republic and FReepers could be vital in swing states in rallying just enough conservatives to tip the election and prevent our troops from having to salute for even one day longer than necessary an ineligible Marxist committed to destroying the USA !


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: abo; dontate; elsiethecow; freepathon; norino; romney; truce
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To: darrellmaurina; All

” - - - I believe the underlying issue for many of us is, as Graewoulf has said, that there’s more than one type of “conservative.” Social issues conservatives are not always trying to “conserve” the same things as economic conservatives.”

Thanks for clearly summarizing that point in my post.

Think about it: which would the Body Politic, (i.e., the interlocked Liberal Agenda Media, Democrats and RINOs), find easier to attack, marginalize and ignore?

1.) A single topic attack on them?

OR

2.) A multi-topic attack on them?

Now that their 80 + year Keynesian Rule of us has finally run out of money, we Financial Conservatives know that we have circled the prey and stand ready to attack.

AAHHHHRRWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Necessary to our attack is the attack from as many other types of Conservatives as possible. The more “hot-button” attacks, the better. Multi-pronged beats single-pronged attacks every time!

Presently the arrogant Democrats either ignore all Conservatives, try to marginalize us as “A vast, Right-Wing Conspiracy,” or accuse us of being villains, mainly through the Court of Public Opinion which is owned by the Liberal Agenda Media, (LAM).

My overarching point is that politicians come and go, political parties come and go, but the thinking that supports the idea that it is SANE to spend more money this year than was taken in as income last year remains entrenched in the policies of the Body Politic, which is the inter-dependant linkage of the LAM, Dems, RINOs, and most importantly you and I as voters.

Support and vote for who you want to, but before you do look into the eyes of your children and grandchildren and tell them that because of you voting or not voting, THEY will have to work a large part of each of their work days for the rest of their lives to pay back principle AND interest to the owners of US Federal Government Bonds that WE sold to give us OUR “Entitlements” of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obama”care,” Unemployment payments to workers out of work, Food Stamps, Housing assistance to Illegal Aliens, Free Hospital “Emergency” Medical and Dental care to Illegal Aliens AND their extended families who continue to live permanently in Mexico, Aid to Dependent Children, No child Left Behind, Federal Aid to Education of Young Socialists, “Free” Student loans to future Federal politicians and bureaucrats, etc., etc., etc.

BTW, to put all of this into perspective, if you are now paying the very low rate of only 10 % Personal Federal Income Tax, then you are currently working every one of your workdays at 10 % X 8 hours = 0.8 hours X 60 minutes = 48 minutes of EVERY work day for The Federal Plantation located at 1600 Plantation Avenue, in the District of Corruption, USSA.

Those 48 minutes per work day feed the Federal Beast for only 60 % of each year, forcing the current Sheriff of Nottingham Timmy Gee to sell more Federal Bonds that HE says that YOUR grandchildren’s descendants will be more than happy to pay off.

Did I just describe a “Bond Bubble?” Obviously not as I am just a marginalized, and ignored member of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.”

Yep, Hilly said it before she became Obama’s Secretary of Statements. She knew that eventually we would conspire to replace The Body Politic with a system that works.

You know, the one our Founding Fathers came up with,
and clearly specified in THE US CONSTITUTION.

May God Bless America, again. (This time let us not be allowed to take His blessings for granted).


1,201 posted on 05/08/2012 8:26:20 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Seizethecarp; Jim Robinson; All
Attention "Anyone But Obama" (ABO) FReepers!

Ya know "ABO" = just a euphemism for Romney voters & Romney supporters & Rombots.

How do we know that?

Because many of the "ABO" voters/FREEPERS get upset with you when you tell them you're voting for Virgil Goode or Tom H. or are considering writing in somebody else.

All of a sudden, it's not "ABO" but somebody quite specific (Romney). IOW, there has been no acceptance by them of third-party voters.

Besides, if "ABO" was anything but a euphemism for Romney, then even "Hitler" "the Anti-Christ" or anybody as a free-lance "write-in" candidate would be acceptable to them. They certainly qualify to be that "anybody" but Obama!

(And that's not a good way to train up our next generations...to become so fixated upon either the (r) candidate or the anti-(d) candidate that one day your children & grandchildren will be strongly supporting somebody to the left of Obama...just because that candidate happens to be to the "right" of (d)...In this way, (r) and "conservative" then become completely unrecognizable terms)

1,202 posted on 05/08/2012 8:27:39 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Mountain Mary
Help keep Congress and work to take the Senate back. Support true conservative candidates. Work to elect local conservatives to school boards, county boards and other elective offices in your area.

Wise words.

1,203 posted on 05/08/2012 8:28:00 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Colofornian

Great post. You aptly illustrate that on its face the “ABO” title is grossly dishonest.


1,204 posted on 05/08/2012 8:32:02 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Romney Republicanism: The blind leading the blind, over a cliff, into the political abyss.)
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To: wagglebee
No candidate in American history has ever won without the enthusiastic support of his own party. Look at the primaries, the only states Romney won by large margins are liberal states that the GOP won't win anyway.

No doubt.

It is notable that in every conversation Romney Republicans must, in order to pass the initial laugh test, first admit that they can't stand the guy, that he has no morals, no principles, that he is a liar and a fake.

Right before they try to bludgeon you into supporting what they know you too detest.

1,205 posted on 05/08/2012 8:37:21 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Romney Republicanism: The blind leading the blind, over a cliff, into the political abyss.)
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To: darrellmaurina
2 posted on Sun May 06 2012 10:15:17 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by eastforker: “How about a truce involving the religious bigots that inhabit this site. I am really tired of hearing the hatred spewed concerning other beliefs if different than some of these bigots.”

This post was a thread hijack. This person wouldn't let his atheistic stance allow him to denounce the religious side of FR. To him any religious discussion is "hate" and "bigotry".

1,206 posted on 05/08/2012 8:43:58 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: darrellmaurina; Elsie; eastforker; Jim Robinson
“How did we go from
1) debating whether to tolerate those who want to vote for Mitt Romney as the lesser of two evils to
2) debating getting rid of alleged religious bigots?”

You are wrong in both of your characterizations as both of the above digressions on my thread are hijackings!

Due to my personal medical issues for most of Sunday I was not able to refocus the thread back onto the topic of helping JR raise money until after it ballooned over 1000 posts.

If you re-read my opening post, this thread was started as an invitation to ABO FReepers, in view of JR’s announced TRUCE, to return to FR, for ABO FReepers to feel “safe” (at least from being invited to leave or denounced as RINO’s) in expressing ABO views, and for them to consider resuming donations to the current flagging FReepathon and the need to keep FR up and solid in 2012.

One of the big reasons that ABO FReepers have shut their wallets is attacks on their character, religion and patriotism simply for holding a belief that the ineligible Marxist Manchurian is a far greater danger to our Republic and religions than Romney could ever be despite his Mormonism.

JimRob’s TRUCE would seem to call for a halt to these personal attacks on ABO FReepers. Attack away on the substantive reasons why you are FUMR or ABO, but refrain from personal attacks under FR posting rules, and refrain from abuse and attempted shunning of FReepers holding these opposing views.

1,207 posted on 05/08/2012 8:44:38 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: darrellmaurina; Colofornian; Godzilla

I can work with Mormons who, when all is said and done, belong to a religion whose founders had good things to say about the United States Constitution,

- - - - - -
The only real issue I have with your post is this...rather the LDS founders and early leaders had BAD things to say about the US and Constitution and attempted to set up a LDS theocracy, which many LDS still believe and hope for. That is the exact reason that Joseph Smith, Jr. (founder of the LDS church) ran for POTUS in 1844.

“... you do solemnly swear in the presence of Almighty God... that you will avenge the blood of Joseph Smith upon this nation, and so teach your children; that you will, from this day henceforth and forever, begin and carry out hostilities against this nation, and keep the same a profound secret now and forever. So help you God.”

- Apostle William Smith, Arguments Before the Committee On Privileges and Elections of the United States Senate In the Matter of the Protests Against the Right of Hon. Reed Smoot, A Senator from the State of Utah, to Hold His Seat, 1905, p. 231

“We will go to a land where there are at last no old settlers to quarrel with us…. We will leave this wicked nation, to themselves, for they have rejected the gospel, and I hope and pray that the wicked will kill one another & save us the trouble of doing it.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, quoted in “Journal of Heber C. Kimball,” under January 2, 1846; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 216

“Who goes to the White House these days?... A gambler and a drunkard. And the Vice-President is the same. And no man can get either office unless he is a gambler and a drunkard, or a thief. And who goes to Congress? You may hunt clear through the Senate and House, and if you can find any men that are not liars, thieves, whoremongers, gamblers, and drunkards, I tell you they are mighty few, for no other kind of men can get in there.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, quoted in Hirshon, The Lion of the Lord: A Biography of the Mormon Leader, Brigham Young, 1969, pp. 278-279

“[U.S. President] Zachary Taylor is dead, and in hell. And I am glad of it.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, quoted in Perry Brocchus, “Utah Officials’ Report to President Fillmore,” Congressional Globe, new series, v. 25, p. 87; cited in B.H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church, 1930, v. 3, p. 520, footnote #3

“Joseph Smith escaped many conspiracies against his life…. But the Lord said – ‘Now let my servant seal up his testimony with his blood;’ and that sealed up the damnation of the United States, not of individuals, but of the nation…. I am prophet enough to prophesy the downfall of the government that has driven us out…. Wo to the United States! I see them going to death and destruction.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, in William S. Harwell, ed., Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 1847-1850, 1997, pp. 221, 238

“The people of the rest of the country are our enemies…. When the government conflicts with heaven, we will be ranged under the banner of heaven and against the Government…. I defy the United States. I will obey God.”

- Prophet John Taylor, Salt Lake Tribune, January 6, 1880, quoted in Samuel W. Taylor, Rocky Mountain Empire, 1978, p. 29

“The American Nation will be broken in pieces.... you live in the day and hour of the judgments of God Almighty.... the hour of God’s judgment is at the door.... I wish to warn all nations.... Thrones will be cast down, nations will be overturned, anarchy will reign, all legal barriers will be broken down, and the laws will be trampled in the dust. You are about to be visited with war, sword, famine, pestilence, plague, earthquakes, whirlwinds, tempests, and with the flame of devouring fire.... the slain of the Lord will be many.”

- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, April 21, 1879, in Millennial Star, v. 41, p. 241

“Brigham raised his hand and said, ‘I swear by the eternal Heavens that I have unsheathed my sword, and I will never return it until the blood of the Prophet Joseph and Hyrum, and those who were slain in Missouri, is avenged. This whole nation is guilty of shedding their blood, by assenting to the deed, and holding its peace.’ ... Furthermore, every one who had passed through their endowments, in the Temple, were placed under the most sacred obligations to avenge the blood of the Prophet, whenever an opportunity offered, and to teach their children to do the same, thus making the entire Mormon people sworn and avowed enemies of the American nation.”

- Elder John D. Lee, Mormonism Unveiled, 1877, p. 160, online at http://www.helpingmormons.org/Rare_Books.htm

“These people [the Mormons] repudiate the authority of the United States in this country, and are in open rebellion against the general government…. So strong have been my apprehensions of danger to the surveyors that I scarcely deemed it prudent to send any out…. We are by no means sure that we will be permitted to leave, for it is boldly asserted we would not get away alive.”

- David H. Burr, Surveyor-General for Utah, August 30, 1856, letter to Thomas A. Hendricks, General Land Office, March 28, 1857; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 229

“Mormon leaders consistently expressed their feelings that the war had been brought on by the wickedness of the United States, which had rejected Mormonism and permitted the death of the prophet of God and his servants…. Although the waste of lives was lamentable, a war between states would avenge the death of Joseph Smith. The Saints seemed especially gratified that Jackson County was a war zone and that Missouri would suffer the penalty of its cruelties to the Mormons. Besides avenging the blood of the innocent, the Lord would also prepare the way before his coming, which Mormons believed would occur in Jackson County, Missouri…. William Clayton wrote that such a spirit seemed to operate on Brigham Young’s mind: ‘All Latter-day Saints will not stay here [in Utah] forever. He [Young] talks much and frequently about Jackson County, Missouri.”

- Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 235

“So as to make you realize the enormity of Mormonism suffice it that I found them a community of traitors, murderers, fanatics, and whores. The people publicly rejoice at the reverse to our arms and thank God that the American government is gone as they term it, while their prophet and bishops preach treason from the pulpit. Federal officers are entirely powerless and talk in whispers for fear of being overheard by Brigham’s spies. Brigham Young rules with despotic sway and death by assassination is the penalty of disobedience to his command.”

- Colonel Patrick E. Conner, Union Army officer, letter dated September 14, 1862; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 274


1,208 posted on 05/08/2012 8:54:07 AM PDT by reaganaut (VAB! Voting against both Romney and Obama. Constitution party, here I come!)
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To: EternalVigilance
It is notable that in every conversation Romney Republicans must, in order to pass the initial laugh test, first admit that they can't stand the guy, that he has no morals, no principles, that he is a liar and a fake.

Exactly. "He's the best we could come up with," is not a campaign slogan.

1,209 posted on 05/08/2012 8:55:31 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Seizethecarp; NoLibZone; Jim Robinson; All
Obama loathes and wants to effectively replace the influence of all forms of religion with the power of the global socialist state...while the shameless chameleon Romney, whatever his shortcomings, does NOT!

The Master puppeteer is Satan. His primary political power will be THE Anti-Christ.

By way of parallel example, Romney is to the Mormon prophet what the Anti-Christ is to Satan. Puppet vs. Puppeteer.

This is where ignorance of Mormonism takes over in these religio-political threads. Because it makes absolutely ZERO difference here whatever Romney's personal machinations are! (Only the "prophet's" directives count!)

My Mormon ancestors go back a ways. I have more primary Lds documents than many perhaps even most Lds. I've read what they've spoken from the tabernacle pulpit; I've studied their leaders' writings.

If you have a certain control-freak @ the head of the Mormon church -- as their "prophet" -- then all bets are off are your forecasts.

We know...
...Joseph Smith was running for POTUS the year he died.
...That his ensuer, Brigham Young, was not only prophet but territorial governor who interfered in bringing Mormons to justice (i.e. Mountain Meadows Massacre).
...that 3rd "prophet" John Taylor eventually hated "the United Order" -- socialist/communist communities that his previous "prophets" put into place in communities like Orderville, Kanab, Brigham City, St. George, Bunkerville, Nevada, etc...they had 200 such communities planned...but became extinct by 1900.
...Lorenzo Snow, the 5th Mormon "prophet" 1898-1901, had even run one of these communist cities.

The 4th "prophet" before him, Wilford Woodruff, had the audacity along with Taylor in the 1880s to repeatedly rebuff the feds re: bigamy/polygamy. They thought their power trumped the govt.

There wasn't a Mormon "prophet" who was polygamy-free until 1945...one of those was 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, who lied under oath about polygamous arrangements during the Senate Smoot hearings in the early 1900s.

This is the "Mormon cloth" of leadership from which also -- generations later -- 80-something yr old Lds "prophets" are emerging...

Do we want the free world in the hands of some potential 90-95 yo "prophet" who directs Romney to do whatever he wants?

**********************************

I wrote this in April 2009:

If Romney were to be elected, just how much advice would be coming from SLC? That in itself is a scary thought considering their desire for a return to LDS theocracy. But what have LDS leaders & authors themselves said? Here's just a small sample:

Here's what a journalist/spokesperson for the University of Utah said back in 1981:

“Mormons believe they have a divine commission to prepare the world for Christ's millennial reign in which they will serve as officers and administrators. The faithful Saint believes he is building the kingdom of God. This is what motivates the 30,000 full-time missionaries [note, this has almost doubled since 1981] to preach the gospel, and this is what keeps men in their eighties working at a pace that would pitch younger, less motivated men into their graves.” --University of Utah spokesperson Fred Esplin, “The Saints Go Marching On,” Utah Holiday, June 1981, p. 34.

LDS prophet Ezra Taft Benson himself also said in 1988: “Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time 'this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction' [The White Horse Prophesy] Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619

LDS author Duane S. Crowther: “[T]here will be a complete change of government Washington, D.C. will cease to be the capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign...A new government will be established among the saints and that political kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of constitutional government." Duane S. Crowther, Prophetic Warnings to Modern America, 1979, pp. 315-316

1,210 posted on 05/08/2012 8:56:08 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: ohioWfan; Elsie
I would suggest, rather, that you ask the Holy Spirit to examine your heart to see what if there is any truth in the reaction a number of us had to your posts, as we all should do when we are criticized.

(You mean like where you called Elz a rapist & pillager on this thread???...Does the Holy Spirit instruct you to call people that???)

1,211 posted on 05/08/2012 8:58:53 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: fml
share the horrid facts about the abused they suffered? Pfffft

That pretty says everything I need to know about you.

The truth is I know everything I need to know, and they are not threatening anyone's way of life

So in essence, you want to remain ignorant about Mormonism and refuse to acknowledge what others have said about the cult. You live for only you.

The bible thumping creeps here feel threatened by something they claim cannot touch them. It's ugly and casts all conservatives in a bad light.

What does, "bible thumping creeps" have to do with exposing a cult? Cults are dangerous to society whether they are a christian based one or some other.

If you don't like Mormonism being exposed for what it is, how then can you stand up for anything in life?

Conservatives don't bury their heads when it comes to the truth, that's a liberal reaction. You worry about conservatives being cast in a bad light? What about your blatant ignorance and apathy for the truth? That is liberal trait, not a conservative one.

1,212 posted on 05/08/2012 9:02:11 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie
It was a hyperbolic metaphor, and clarified as such.

But yes, I was only suggesting that he do what ALL Christians are called to do, and that includes myself, and examine himself.

I have admitted to saying things that I shouldn't have said in the heat of the moment, and having to ask for forgiveness.

At no point did I put myself above others here in calling for restraint. I am not without sin, nor are you or "Elz."

btw, I'm glad you have his back, but Elsie is pretty good at taking care of himself. :)

Now, since I have already apologized for participating in this off-topic hijack of a thread, I will cease and desist. Any further criticism may be sent to me privately.

Thanks.

1,213 posted on 05/08/2012 9:11:46 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Seizethecarp
One of the big reasons that ABO FReepers have shut their wallets is attacks on their character, religion and patriotism simply for holding a belief that the ineligible Marxist Manchurian is a far greater danger to our Republic and religions than Romney could ever be despite his Mormonism.

The fact that we are at this place doesn't hold well for the country.

A year ago, when people were saying, "I'd vote for a turd over Obama", I never thought that would actually be our choice.

1,214 posted on 05/08/2012 9:13:58 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Colofornian; EternalVigilance; Jim Robinson
“Ya know “ABO” = just a euphemism for Romney voters & Romney supporters & Rombots.”

Your ad hominem attack on my choice of words and your insinuation that I am a Romney “supporter” or “Rombot” is exactly the kind of divisive behavior (frankly bullying) that JimRob has requested that FReepers avoid in his TRUCE posting, IMO.

In my observation on FR most ABO FReepers regard Romney, at best, as a man with no core principles and with clear previous liberal stances, thanks to JimRob providing a platform for Romney's outrageous flip-flops to be exposed to conservatives who might otherwise have been taken in by his current marketing as a “conservative.”

Language is imprecise and sometimes words and terms that are not “perfect,” such as ABO and RINO don't mean the same thing to everybody but are useful shorthand.

This thread is intended to boost flagging donations by making ABO FReepers aware that JimRob posted a TRUCE message, which I invite you to re-read.

Feel free to attack the act of voting for Romney on other threads on the merits in accord with FR policy against personal attacks, but this thread intended to invite sincere conservative ABO FReepers to take notice of JR's TRUCE and DONATE, even if some FReepers appear to want to ignore the TRUCE.

1,215 posted on 05/08/2012 9:20:02 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: metmom

Tell me about it.

Seriously, this guy went to the toilet, ate (sushi, by the looks of it) and listened to music while talking to me on skype. And yeah - video chat mostly, though he had the courtesy to turn off video while on the loo!

Don’t know who invented the phrase Hollywierd, but it ain’t strong enough.


1,216 posted on 05/08/2012 9:23:23 AM PDT by EnglishCon (When life gets too much to stand - kneel.)
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To: metmom
I’ve been in public restrooms where people are on the phone while doing their business.

If I hear somebody on a cellphone in the bathroom, I make a point to rip one as loud as I can.

1,217 posted on 05/08/2012 9:24:40 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Colofornian

Who the hell are Virgil Goode and Tom H.? Who are people writing in? What are their chances of winning? We pushed for better candidates; we didn’t get it. If people with actual name recognition didn’t make it against Romney, what chance do those folks you mentioned have? Zero.

Is it really a revelation to you that, as of now, “ABO = Romney”?

That’s pretty sad.


1,218 posted on 05/08/2012 9:27:10 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Future Snake Eater

Virgil Goode is the Constitutional Party candidate. From things I have heard, he is pretty solid, but is going to suffer from third party syndrome regardless.

Tom H - no clue. First I have heard of him too.


1,219 posted on 05/08/2012 9:31:23 AM PDT by EnglishCon (When life gets too much to stand - kneel.)
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To: EternalVigilance

“Obviously. Of course, most refuse to look at most of those tools, and folks like yourself try to make us believe we’re limited only to the tools you say we can safely use”

You won’t even face the obvious political reality that the race is between Obama and Romney. Then you switch the argument to personal principle from the political principle argument I’m making - and you insert the predictable self congratulatory rhetoric that breaks out here quite often because you “stick to your (personal) principles”, like you’re the only one who’s ever thought about that.

This is politics.

You’ve got Obama, and you’ve got Romney. That’s it.

It’s not that hard to understand.


1,220 posted on 05/08/2012 9:33:48 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: My hearts in London - Everett

Thank you very much, My hearts in London - Everett!!


1,221 posted on 05/08/2012 9:37:57 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: cherry

Thank you very much, cherry!! Much appreciated!!


1,222 posted on 05/08/2012 9:39:23 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: dfwgator

LOL!!!


1,223 posted on 05/08/2012 9:39:58 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: republicangel

Thank you very much, republicangel!!


1,224 posted on 05/08/2012 9:40:51 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: ohioWfan; wagglebee; Graewoulf; Godzilla; Seizethecarp; Elsie; eastforker; Jim Robinson
I really shouldn't be posting this. I made a major screwup on a different thread today (the Santorum email endorsement of Romney) and obviously was up too late last night reading this thread and then again up way too early this morning responding. I'm going to post this and get off Free Republic for a while, at least until tonight. I have a ton of real-life work to do and while coffee helps, it doesn't solve every problem.

Thank you to ohioWfan, wagglebee, Graewoulf, Godzilla, and Seizethecarp for your comments. I'm responding to each below, in a lot of cases overlapping.

First, for Godzilla and Seizethecarp — yes, I did read the thread from beginning to end. In fact, I read every single one of the 1100-plus posts on this thread last night, waited overnight to calm down before sending my note this morning, and have now read the additional posts this morning. I realize the thread topic has been changed significantly.

Seizethecarp, I am very sorry to hear of your medical issues. I'm not going to pry; it's none of my business. What counts is that if this thread had stayed on topic I would not have responded.

I do not have a problem with “Anybody but Romney” people — they include the vast majority of my Republican friends in my county who supported Rick Santorum. On the contrary, I do have a major concern about a resurgence of the attacks on social conservatives that we saw earlier in the primary. I've got zero problems with someone thinking Santorum wasn't the best candidate for president — I had my own reservations, became a Santorum supporter very late in the process, basically after Iowa, and then kept my word to back Gingrich if Santorum dropped out. I could have been happy with Gingrich as the nominee and defended him repeatedly in public and in private. The problem is that too many comments against Santorum weren't so much attacks on Santorum but rather attacks on the social conservative wing of the Republican Party and/or the Judeo-Christian foundations of the United States.

That is a much bigger issue to me.

However, let's say I wasn't firmly committed to being a politically active evangelical. Let's say my goal was pure pragmatism, namely, assembling enough of a coalition to win 50 percent of the vote for the Republican nominee by any means possible.

The Democratic Party has to be rejoicing watching social conservatives, economic conservatives and national defense conservatives fight each other when we have far more in common with each other than any of us have with Barack Obama. Mitt Romney used divisions in the conservative wing of the Republican Party to get nominated, and unfortunately, he's given Obama proof that a divide-and-conquer strategy can work against Republican conservatives because many of us care deeply about principles and we now have a nominee who, to put it mildly, has not been known for standing on principles.

On a related point, thanks to Wagglebee for his comments about Roman Catholics rejecting both John Kerry and Rudy Giuliani, and Catholic FReepers going after Giuliani during the last presidential election cycle. Mormons need to do some serious housecleaning when this election is over; 2012 could do a great deal of damage to their well-honed efforts over the years to present themselves to the public as a religion of discipline and family values. Of course as an evangelical I'm not unhappy with people seeing the dark side of the LDS, but I would think a faithful LDS member would be very upset by the prospect of Romney repeating the Catholic Kennedy experience.

Also to Graewoulf: I appreciate your post as well. You make some important comments I need to analyze and I'm too exhausted to do it now beyond what I'm writing below regarding Romney and the dangers of a focus primarily on economic conservative views in the election.

Just as focusing primarily on social issues can antagonize some swing voters, focusing primarily on economic issues can antagonize some swing voters as well. But your post raises issues I need to look at more closely and I'm just responding to you and to ohioWfan in broad brushstrokes.

For OhioWFan... there are dynamics to the 2008 and 2012 elections that are significantly different from modern electoral history. Some of the old rules about turnout and about campaign financing no longer apply, and I do not count Romney out entirely.

I don't think it's impossible for Romney to win, but I do believe he has many factors stacked against him that would not have been the case with most of the other major Republican candidates, and on the other hand, his major advantage in money won't be as much of a factor in the general election.

(In fairness to Romney, however, he does have access to major funding sources that might have been hard for Santorum or Gingrich to get. Being part of the elite East Coast establishment has undeniable advantages. Rather than being a David and Goliath fight between an underfunded Republican candidate relying on lots of small donors and a well-funded Democratic candidate, the 2012 presidential campaign will be a very wealthy Republican and his friends versus a Democrat from a poor background who has very wealthy friends.)

Here are some details on why I'm seriously concerned that we are facing a disaster this November.

First, the Democrats believe demographics are on their side long-term, and they've got a good case if something isn't done within a generation to get Hispanics to vote Republican. Certain key large states are today reliably Republican, but as their Hispanic population grows, Republicans will be forced to divert resources to keeping those states in the Republican column by getting lots of white rural Southern conservatives to the polls. Even now, in a close election such as what we face this year, that means Republicans will be on the defensive keeping red states from turning purple when we need to be on the offensive turning purple states into red states and making Democrats spend their money keeping blue states in their column. That could become a cascade of problems leading to a disastrous electoral blowout.

Both Santorum and Gingrich could have made a credible appeal to Mass-going Roman Catholic Hispanics that will be very hard for Romney to make, especially because of the Massachusetts health care history. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see Romney having any sort of solid history of demonstrated appeal to Roman Catholics.

Secondly, and more seriously in the short-term, during the run-up to the 2010 midterm elections, the Democrats said — in my opinion, correctly — that if they could get the same electorate to the polls that voted in 2008, they would win by a large margin. Instead, they lost due to a number of different factors, one of the most important being the energy of the Tea Party movement.

We simply cannot ignore the fact that Obama energizes his own base voters and our base will not be energized in 2012 — or at least won't be to the extent they were in 2008.

Key components of the Republican base — evangelical Christians, rural white voters, blue collar “Reagan Democrats,” and others — either have a long history of low voter turnout or are willing to vote for Democrats under the right circumstances. On the other side of the spectrum, Republicans are kidding ourselves if we don't understand the appeal that Obama has to black Democratic voters. I don't blame Obama for that; it's the same sort of appeal that Kennedy had to Roman Catholics in 1960. That wasn't a factor in 2010, but it will be in 2012 with Obama at the top of the ticket.

The other side of the aisle is going to paint Romney as a spoiled rich son of a career corporate executive who became a company president, and then to make things even worse, became a robber baron corporate raider destroying companies rather than repairing them.

What is our response going to be? “Yes, Romney really does like to fire people, and lots of Washington bureaucrats need to be fired?”

There are a lot of reasons for Republicans to vote against Obama, but as far as I can tell, the only actual positive thing Romney brings to the table other than being “anyone but Obama” is Romney's expertise in the corporate world. If we focus on that, I believe we risk losing by massive margins in key industrial states that we must have to win the general election. I'm all for capitalism, but “Vote for Romney's Corporate Raiders” is not a winning campaign slogan in the industrial heartland states.

I hope I'm wrong. I really wish I could see a good path to a Republican victory this fall, because I fully understand how much damage Barack Obama can do.

I just don't see it.

1,225 posted on 05/08/2012 9:42:29 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: fml
share the horrid facts about the abused they suffered? Pfffft

The truth is I know everything I need to know, and they are not threatening anyone's way of life

You dismiss someone's first hand account on Mormonism then claim Mormonism doesn't threaten anyone's way of life?

That's interesting.

Warren Jeffs and Josh Powell never threaten anyone's way of life either... According to your way of thinking.

1,226 posted on 05/08/2012 9:42:44 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Future Snake Eater; EnglishCon; Colofornian

Tom H. is Tom Hoefling, which is me.


1,227 posted on 05/08/2012 9:56:22 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Romney Republicanism: The blind leading the blind, over a cliff, into the political abyss.)
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To: fml

Thank you for your post, it makes clear you know nothing about momronism.


1,228 posted on 05/08/2012 10:09:27 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: darrellmaurina

That post says it all folks! Fabulous post!

Takes the edges off the question of what “truce” is... and it does not null and void the owners PRO-Stance on the issues of what this site is about.

Thank you for stating this so well....I agree!


1,229 posted on 05/08/2012 10:22:40 AM PDT by caww
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To: EternalVigilance

Do you have any hope of securing a national party ticket, implementing a campaign that can compete against Obama and Romney, and, more importantly, beat them?


1,230 posted on 05/08/2012 10:27:13 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Graewoulf

Another Great Post!

BTW I ran the numbers before, to determine how many hours in my hourly work week are working to pay for government and those who do not work...for my right to work...etc.

So every Monday I know how far thru the week I must go... week...before the money I make is going into my pocket.

Of course that doesn’t include the consumer tax’s which also take another chunk...so you estimate that figure as well.

It really does make a difference when you realize how much of your work week is for “others”...

Good post....and food for thought!


1,231 posted on 05/08/2012 10:33:33 AM PDT by caww
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To: Future Snake Eater

I’m already the nominee of a national party. And yes.

http://www.selfgovernment.us/about.html

My name is being placed on general election ballots in the several states right now.

I’m a twelve year FReeper, and stand for everything Jim Robinson says this site stands for on the homepage, and that most FReepers say they want. And I have a political track record to prove that this is not just empty campaign rhetoric.


1,232 posted on 05/08/2012 10:35:32 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Romney Republicanism: The blind leading the blind, over a cliff, into the political abyss.)
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To: AnTiw1
I’m the one that looks like a powerlifter who’s taken up jogging.

You're fabulous.

And a n00b. But at least you've started writing like an adult.

1,233 posted on 05/08/2012 10:38:19 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Seizethecarp; EternalVigilance; Jim Robinson
Your ad hominem attack on my choice of words and your insinuation that I am a Romney “supporter” or “Rombot” is exactly the kind of divisive behavior (frankly bullying) that JimRob has requested that FReepers avoid in his TRUCE posting, IMO.

Please stop it!

Can you not read? I CLEARLY said: Ya know "ABO" = just a euphemism for Romney voters & Romney supporters & Rombots.

I clearly "ramped up" Romney's level of support as I described those 3 groups...If I would have ONLY meant Rombots, I wouldn't have broken it down into 3 groups: Romney voters & Romney supporters & Rombots... Doncha know those ampersands are there as marks of distinction?

A lot of your so-called "ABO" are (potential) Romney "voters"...

There's another group (or two) of FREEPERs here who go beyond that...they subtlely use FR to campaign for Romney...those are the "supporters & Rombots." (The supporters tend to be more subtle)

They go beyond personally voting for Romney & become his public advocates. As Jim as said, citizen-voters like that can do what they want...they just don't "have to" (or "get to") use FR as one venue of that.

1,234 posted on 05/08/2012 10:40:24 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: humblegunner

I just lost all bodily functions.


1,235 posted on 05/08/2012 10:42:33 AM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: Colofornian
.....and “conservative” then become completely unrecognizable terms.....

I think that's the intention...perhaps a “perk” for how they are destroying our right to vote for whom we will.

It's mind-boggling how some can push for an ABO vote when like it or not there has been conservatives all along in these weeks to opt for....but instead they hurriedly jumped on the media band wagon...and Romneys claim to fame...without looking where they were going.

What would they say for those voting for Ron Paul now, because some are convinced a fruitcake conservative is better than the Socialist agendas being pushed by Romney and Obama?

It's fast becoming clear many here are truly Romney supporters far more than ABO voters.

1,236 posted on 05/08/2012 10:43:37 AM PDT by caww
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To: dragonblustar
The fact that we are at this place doesn't hold well for the country.

It does however certainly reflect a divided country...and how deeply Commi, Socialists, and all the others have infiltrated.....not to mention a President with outside influences helping the destruction of this economy.

I believe the same is happening on Jim's site...and the same tactics being used...there is an effort to destroy this site.

My gosh some even sought how they could get Drudge to take FR off his links..

1,237 posted on 05/08/2012 10:53:09 AM PDT by caww
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To: humblegunner; Jim Robinson; All

Post #1233, in case you ever wonder where people are going, or why people who haven’t been here for 10 years don’t donate.

Hope this guy is really good at whatever he does for you, because as a poster child for this website, he kinda sucks.


1,238 posted on 05/08/2012 10:56:54 AM PDT by AnTiw1 (Men who stand firm against an army of thousands, run when a tiger appears among them. ~ShirKhan~)
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To: darrellmaurina
To hopefully encourage you a bit here....

Yes, Santorum or Gingrich would have energized the base far more than Romney does, but I remain convinced that the conservative base loves this country so much that they/we will do everything possible to defeat Obama in November, lack of exhuberance notwithstanding.

On the other side of the spectrum, Obama's demographic base - the young, blacks, Hispanics, single women - have been hit hardest (actually the truth this time! :) by the Obamaconomy's failure. In 2008, blacks came out in droves, as did the 18-25 demographic to vote for an idea, a hologram, an American Idol, and many of them now realize he doesn't exist. He's a failure. Those groups may still vote for him, but it was the sheer number of voters in those categories that put him over the top.

The Hispanic factor could be mitigated by the choice of Rubio, but Hispanics, as all other population groups, are suffering in this lousy economy. I can't verify it, but I've heard (maybe from Rush?) that even illegals are going back home to Mexico because the US economy stinks so bad.

As for Romney's wealth - one thing that he doesn't seem to be afraid to do is fight back, and bringing up the fact that Obama and his family have been living high on the hog at the taxpayer's expense while they are suffering can be exploited by the campaign. The 80+ rounds of golf won't help Obama either....

The Romney campaign can continue to point out that he EARNED his wealth, and that Obama got his by being a grifter.

I tend to be a hopeless optimist, however, and sometimes that doesn't pan out, but in this case, I think my optimism is well grounded.

I believe we need to shake off the disappointment that Romney won the nomination, and do what we can to do whatever is humanly possible to get this vile Marxist punk out of the White House.

That.......and PRAY for God's mercy on America. HIS will be done.

1,239 posted on 05/08/2012 10:59:08 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Future Snake Eater; SeekAndFind; Seizethecarp
Who the hell are Virgil Goode and Tom H.?

Virgil is a former VA rep...Constitution Party

Tom H. = Tom Hoefling, a FREEPER [Eternal Vigilance] Tom Hoefling for President

What are their chances of winning?

#1 You know, "chances" is a horseracing term...where they pay not only the winners, but to place as a runner-up (& if 8 or more horses, to "show" as well)...Unfortunately, for POTUS, there is no partial salvation in finishing as "runner-up." The 2nd-place finisher's vote counted for no more than the 3rd or 4th-place finisher.

While the race is certainly "wide open" now...(For example, Seek and Find posted this thread this a.m.: Rasmussen: Three-Way Race: Romney 44%, Obama 39%, Ron Paul 13%)...

So...given a...
...a Ron Paul third-party entry...
...coupled with more voters abandoning the GoP for other waters (Goode/Hoefling)
...coupled with the MSM expose' of Romney & Mormonism for 6 months straight...
...= a "formula" where I believe Romney will be WAY down in the polls come late October [unless the economy tanks even more significantly!]

Therefore, the Q isn't "What is a third party chance of winning?" as of May, 2012...
...Rather, it's "What are Romney's chances of winning?" as of late October/early Nov???

If his chances THEN are slim, all the more reason to vote third-party even for among the Romney voters and Romney supporters (converts).

#2 If you total ALL the FREEPER votes in states like NY, NJ, CA, OR, WA, IL, & other liberal states, even if 100% of FREEPERS voted for Romney in those states, Romney wouldn't win...

Think about that FREEPERS...Don't vote for Romney if you're NOT in a swing state!

We should start a movement that sweeps the nation whereby we advocate that as many as possible GoP voters in liberal states abandon Romney! [To send a message to the GoP-e]

Also, if FREEPERS exist in states in which Romney will win easily, their vote is unnecessary as well. (It won't make a difference)

Is it really a revelation to you that, as of now, “ABO = Romney”? That’s pretty sad.

Well, thank you for reinforcing my point. I clearly told Seize the Carp that "ABO" is a euphemism for Romney voters AND Romney supporters AND Rombots...and he didn't seem to agree that Romney voters and Romney supporters and Rombots would all (as 3 separate groups) seek to find FR "safe haven" under the umbrella of "ABO." [Note his response: Your ad hominem attack on my choice of words and your insinuation that I am a Romney “supporter” or “Rombot”..."]

So there ya go, FSE...there's at least a partial denial even NOW from STC that it's a euphemism for (some of?) those 3 groups!

1,240 posted on 05/08/2012 10:59:19 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian
This is the "Mormon cloth" of leadership from which also -- generations later -- 80-something yr old Lds "prophets" are emerging... Do we want the free world in the hands of some potential 90-95 yo "prophet" who directs Romney to do whatever he wants?

With Romney it wont' be our congress or our representatives that will influence him or hold his feet to the fire...it will be the unseen LDS leadership. We can at least try and move congress....we have zip zero access to Romneys leaders or to influence them....they will have free reign with no accountability to anyone.

They have their own global governance ambitions, under the authority of their leaders, or at very least a huge part of, and Romney to bring that about if he wins....with the leadership of his organization/alias church overseeing him.

They don't understand the denial and deception is the whole of the Mormon Agenda....control and so called "benevolent dictatorship..but control none the less.

1,241 posted on 05/08/2012 11:08:11 AM PDT by caww
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To: AnTiw1; humblegunner; eastforker

Well, this is Free Republic, land of the free, home of the brave and freest nation on the planet, thanks to God, thanks to our Founders, thanks to our never surrendering liberty-loving patriots and thanks to our military might. Either you’re with us in the never-ending fight against evil or you’re not. The decision is yours and yours alone.

I have absolutely no doubt that by sticking to the straight and narrow path we will persevere!!

Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!!


1,242 posted on 05/08/2012 11:10:16 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: caww

Aw, shucks - - - thanks.

Glad it increased the activity of “your little gray cells.”

I too, used to consider what part of a year, month, or week that I could keep my own money.

Then I realized that I was not seeing the fourth dimension properly: I was deluding myself believing that THE GOVERNMENT was leaving me alone to work for myself for a highly productive, and for a long period of time.

WRONG! If my income rate changed due to a raise, promotion, new job, increased sales or productivity, etc., then I would have to go back and move up my previous date of “freedom.”

The effect was to increase my resentment to increased income because I was less “free” than before. I did not need that idea around as an incentive killer!

So I chose to use the % of just one work day, the basic building block of a work year.

Now I absolutely KNOW that THE BODY POLITIC wants me to work 100% of every 8 hour work day for them.

Thus, I am more acutely aware of how close to complete success they are, AND I no longer delude myself by thinking that I have a lengthy period of time when I am working for myself.

Time is moving like a trotting mouse, and the Jackboots of THE BODY POLITIC are moving as fast as a running rat.

BTW, a running rat runs at the rate of 40 MPH, and there are 40 work hours in a week - - - hmmmmm - - - ? NAH! Probably just a coincidence!


1,243 posted on 05/08/2012 11:13:55 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Colofornian; EternalVigilance

It’s a fool’s argument to insist that ABO means anything but “Romney.” Yes, “chances” may be a horse-racing term, but it still fits. I’ve no doubt Tom Hoefling and Virgil Goode are outstanding conservatives, but eventually reality has to rear its ugly head.

I don’t like Romney in the least and I loathe Obama, but between the two you have massive campaign machines backed by a billion-plus dollars (far more than that when you consider Obama’s using tax dollars for campaigning), strong press presences, and built-in national name recognition. Add to that that third parties are easily demonized as being the home of fruits and freaks by both liberals and conservatives (and ESPECIALLY so by Republicans and Democrats), it looks like people just spending energy on a cause that was lost before it began.

However, maybe I’m wrong—God knows I’d be delighted to be proved wrong in this, but I really don’t think so.

All I can say is “good luck” to the folks who want to take a stab at it.


1,244 posted on 05/08/2012 11:14:12 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Jim Robinson; greyfoxx39; reaganaut; All

Opus Adios, and not letting the doorknob hit me in the coccyx!


1,245 posted on 05/08/2012 11:17:40 AM PDT by AnTiw1 (F I N)
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To: darrellmaurina
However, what some people are saying here is that we should stop criticizing Romney or even discussing religious issues.

Some?

Main group would be, naturally, MORMONs.
Second, would be Oprahized 'Christians'.
Third; probably atheist/agnostics who don't like to heaar about ANY religion ANYwhere.

1,246 posted on 05/08/2012 11:24:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: AnTiw1
Vaya con Dios.

Which DIOS?

1,247 posted on 05/08/2012 11:26:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: AnTiw1
Opus Adios


1,248 posted on 05/08/2012 11:26:57 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Graewoulf

Well that is the Pits!!!! However, maybe this will make you feel better, at least until our Presidential election :

....”New French Socialist President vows “75% tax” on anyone making more than $1.3 million...that’s $975,000 in taxes for someone who makes $1.3 mil.”... he’s also lowering retirement to 60.

Here’s an idea....let’s welcome all the French millionaires into the united states! We could use the extra tax revenue!


1,249 posted on 05/08/2012 11:31:01 AM PDT by caww
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To: EnglishCon
I have freepmailed Elsie and asked if he minds if we move the discussion to mails, rather than in a thread.

I said, no, as the accusation was made here in the open forum.

If you want me to repent; you'd best Display my sins.

1,250 posted on 05/08/2012 11:31:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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