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France, Greece choose suicide over solvency; are we next?
BizPacReview.com ^ | May 11, 2012 | Michael Dorstewitz

Posted on 05/11/2012 6:16:08 AM PDT by cap10mike

Last Sunday, Greece and France held national elections. Both would determine the countries’ future fiscal course of action. In Greece, voters rejected the two ruling parties that had voiced support for the European Union austerity program. That program was instituted in an effort to keep the EU solvent after Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain, known as the PIGS, incurred massive debt as the result of their “cradle to grave” social programs. Since Greece was one of the EU’s original “problem children,” this could probably have been expected.

In France, socialist Francois Hollande was ushered in, while right-of-center Nikolas Sarkozy was given the bum’s rush. Sarkozy’s sin was that, while president, he raised the French retirement age from 60 to 62. Hollande not only promised to lower it back to 60, but to tax those making 1 million euros or more at 75 percent to help pay for it. When delivering his victory speech, the incoming president declared, “Austerity can no longer be inevitable.” Austerity? Retiring at 62 is an act of austerity?

(Excerpt) Read more at bizpacreview.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: austerity; blogpimp; fiscalpolicy; france; greece

1 posted on 05/11/2012 6:16:13 AM PDT by cap10mike
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To: cap10mike
PIGS, incurred massive debt as the result of their “cradle to grave” social programs.

They done gone and ran out of other peoples money.

2 posted on 05/11/2012 6:20:39 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: cap10mike

Next? We were first, November 2008.


3 posted on 05/11/2012 6:21:36 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: cap10mike

How do you say Road Warrior time in French and Greek?


4 posted on 05/11/2012 6:27:41 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: cap10mike
Nobody with brains or talent is advocating stupid spending anywhere. Nontheless people should be aware that there is more than one point of view on the effect of government spending or lack thereof on economies.
5 posted on 05/11/2012 6:29:45 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: cap10mike

The 41% here will be just as resisitant to austerity measures as the general public of Europe. Expect our train to continue hurtling down the track of collapse and prepare accordingly.


6 posted on 05/11/2012 6:29:45 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: cap10mike
You know, I disapprove of borrowing too much and then welching - but the catastrophic "chose suicide" motif is wrong.

We heard the same thing about Iceland, which is now one of the happiest and most peaceful places in the world.

Renouncing unpayable debt is not suicide, because its the banks that die, not the debtors.

People, including many here, have accepted that national survival equals survival - no, profitability - of the money center banks, when it is those banks (in their present unconstitutional role) that are a major threat to that survival.

Money systems end all the time. Ours is terminally ill.

As soon as it dies, we can start to get well again.

7 posted on 05/11/2012 6:39:49 AM PDT by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: Jim Noble

“We heard the same thing about Iceland, which is now one of the happiest and most peaceful places in the world.

Renouncing unpayable debt is not suicide, because its the banks that die, not the debtors.”

But Iceland is does not hold the world’s trading currency, we do. So if we were to default, it would be catastrophic to the world’s economy and ours.

We will not default, and we will control interest rates by buying up our own debt by the Fed. Devalues the dollar, but the Fed can play that game for a long time.


8 posted on 05/11/2012 6:46:13 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: Dr. Ursus
>>How do you say Road Warrior time in French and Greek?

Greek: Χρόνος οδικών πολεμιστών
French: The French don't have a word for 'Warrior' :)

9 posted on 05/11/2012 7:01:37 AM PDT by vikingd00d (chown -R us ./base)
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To: cap10mike
Deep in the dark heart of decadence, which has Western Civilizaion in a death grip, lurks a death wish. Those infected with it long for death, destruction, annihilation. They find nothing in Western Civilization worth preserving or passing on to their children. Hell! They can't even muster the desire to have children!

We see it clearly in France. Many Americans also harbor this death wish.

Whether or not America will survive depends on how many Americans are infected with this death wish and how powerful it is.

10 posted on 05/11/2012 7:36:27 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("You can, in fact must, shout fire in a crowded theatre. It just has to be the truth. " J. Goldberg)
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To: cap10mike
Deep in the dark heart of decadence, which has Western Civilizaion in a death grip, lurks a death wish. Those infected with it long for death, destruction, annihilation. They find nothing in Western Civilization worth preserving or passing on to their children. Hell! They can't even muster the desire to have children!

We see it clearly in France. Many Americans also harbor this death wish.

Whether or not America will survive depends on how many Americans are infected with this death wish and how powerful it is.

11 posted on 05/11/2012 7:36:27 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("You can, in fact must, shout fire in a crowded theatre. It just has to be the truth. " J. Goldberg)
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To: SampleMan

Yep.

Kinda makes you wonder if the whole planet has wandered into some kind of “stupid zone” in the Universe.


12 posted on 05/11/2012 7:43:44 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: vikingd00d
French: The French don't have a word for 'Warrior'

Sure they do...the word is Bosch.

13 posted on 05/11/2012 8:10:13 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (My dream ticket for 2012 is John Galt & Dagny Taggart!)
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To: Night Hides Not
Sure they do...the word is Bosch.

I thought it was Legionnaire.

14 posted on 05/11/2012 8:11:32 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: varmintman
Your cited article is full of holes. To claim that govt spending has a multiplier of 1.5 at this point in time is ridiculous. Th multiplier for all spending is less than 1.0 these days, and the government-spending multiplier is certainly lower than the average, because much of private spending is productive, whereas govt. is in no way productive.

Keynes wanted govt. spending to invigorate the private sector of the economy, not keep govt. bureaucrats in obstructive, rather than productive, jobs.

15 posted on 05/11/2012 8:14:36 AM PDT by expat2
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To: Jim Noble

Question is whether the population at large is productive enough to make good after hitting the debt reset button, or whether a net negative productivity will just drive ‘em back down the hole again.

Getting conned into being liable for someone else’s financial mistakes is one thing.
Being that someone else is different.


16 posted on 05/11/2012 8:15:32 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: vikingd00d
"The French don't have a word for 'Warrior'"

What about guerrier?

17 posted on 05/11/2012 8:15:57 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("You can, in fact must, shout fire in a crowded theatre. It just has to be the truth. " J. Goldberg)
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To: dfwgator

Your answer’s better...wish I’d thought of it.


18 posted on 05/11/2012 8:17:11 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (My dream ticket for 2012 is John Galt & Dagny Taggart!)
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To: Dr. Ursus
How do you say Road Warrior time in French and Greek?

"je surrendeur" :-) (dunno about Greek)

Coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

19 posted on 05/11/2012 8:40:34 AM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Savage Beast

“They can’t even muster the desire to have children!”

I’m curious, how many kids do you have?


20 posted on 05/11/2012 9:23:08 AM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: EGPWS

LOL! I’m sure Margaret Thatcher is chuckling over this one.


21 posted on 05/11/2012 10:12:08 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: SampleMan

Good point! And assuming we can get him out of office, we’re gonna be spending decades trying to get things back the way they should.


22 posted on 05/11/2012 10:14:56 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: Dr. Ursus

Bwahaha! I couldn’t say; it’s all Greek to me!


23 posted on 05/11/2012 10:16:47 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: varmintman

Even John Maynard Keynes said “government stimulus spending” had very limited application.


24 posted on 05/11/2012 10:19:19 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

I have to agree with you here. Witness how Paul Ryan is so criticized for his plans to save Social Security and Medicare.


25 posted on 05/11/2012 10:22:36 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: Jim Noble

I submit that it results in both the banks’ and the country’s suicide. When we don’t pay our debts, the dollar suddenly loses its worth, just as if we had paid the debts off with newly-printed money.


26 posted on 05/11/2012 10:26:36 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: WILLIALAL

Good point.


27 posted on 05/11/2012 10:28:23 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: vikingd00d

No word for “warrior?” Sacre bleu!


28 posted on 05/11/2012 10:30:22 AM PDT by cap10mike (Free market)
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To: cap10mike

Its very curious, but its quite usual for “disciples to go further than their master”. I mean that economists that call themselves “keynesian” are far greater devotees of keynesian economics than John Maynard Keynes was himself! This happens in other spheres of life. Many Calvinists are far more extreme than Calvin ever was.


29 posted on 05/11/2012 10:42:46 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: varmintman

I don’t understand that article at all. It sounds like total double-speak. Even if you accept that deficit spending in itself was not the cause of the current crisis, it can hardly be a good thing to have in the long term.


30 posted on 05/11/2012 10:45:37 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Owl558
Two.

Why?

31 posted on 05/11/2012 12:04:06 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("You can, in fact must, shout fire in a crowded theatre. It just has to be the truth. " J. Goldberg)
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To: cap10mike

The author gets the PIGS thing wrong. First it was Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greese, Spain yielding PIIGS. Now to quote Ichabod1 quoting uh, Ichabod1, it is Portugal, FRANCE, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain, for PFIIGS. PFIIGS. That’s what it is.


32 posted on 05/11/2012 12:07:53 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: cap10mike

He also said In the long run we’re all dead.


33 posted on 05/11/2012 12:11:27 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: Savage Beast

Why - Demographics. I have 2 kids as well.

As you rightly point out, Europe is in a demographic death-spiral because they aren’t having kids. You need to have at least 3 kids for your population to grow. I was just curious how many you had. For you and I with 2 kids each, the population is holding steady, but not growing.


34 posted on 05/11/2012 2:20:13 PM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Owl558
It was a mistake for me to have only two. If I had it to do over I would have at least three or four. I am a self-made man. I was very poor when I was growing up. My father died when I was 14 years old. I was and still am phobic about poverty. I made lots of money, but I was always afraid that I couldn't take care of as many children as I would like to have had. In retrospect I could have done so easily.

In the generations before our grandparents, it was commonplace for people to have 5 or 10 or more children.

35 posted on 05/11/2012 5:41:43 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("You can, in fact must, shout fire in a crowded theatre. It just has to be the truth. " J. Goldberg)
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To: Owl558
As someone observed here on FR a while back, the people of the West have aborted, birth controlled, and homosexualized themselves into oblivion.

I suspect that the decadent Western Leftists' Islamophilia may be a subconscious desire for the absolutes that Islam promises.

36 posted on 05/11/2012 5:47:13 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("You can, in fact must, shout fire in a crowded theatre. It just has to be the truth. " J. Goldberg)
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To: Dead Corpse
Kinda makes you wonder if the whole planet has wandered into some kind of “stupid zone” in the Universe.

Maybe we should name our planet Htrae, that's where Bizarro in the Superman comics came from. B-P
37 posted on 05/11/2012 7:40:10 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (General James Mattoon Scott, where are you when we need you? We need a regime change.)
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To: Jim Noble

I also agree, I think the only thing we can do is just default and bankruptcy and rebuild from there, that’s how far out of control we are. I know some brought up dire consequences in doing this but IMHO, we are past the point of no return, the red fuel light in the cockpit came on and we just have to fly on to our destination.


38 posted on 05/11/2012 7:46:17 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (General James Mattoon Scott, where are you when we need you? We need a regime change.)
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