Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?
The New York Times ^ | May 13th, 2012 | Jennifer Khan

Posted on 05/13/2012 12:12:29 PM PDT by KantianBurke

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-160 next last
To: oprahstheantichrist
I have a by-marriage family member who fits that description to the letter.

But is she evil? Or is she just a good actress and salesperson? The girl I'm referring to here (and a few others like her) are enchanting, charming kids or young people who do awful things, from simple crimes to ruining the lives of others. A lot of people are good natural actors without doing wrong.

101 posted on 05/13/2012 5:56:43 PM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke

4 things I’d like to know:

1) Were (are are) the parents ever involved in the occult?

2) Are the parents observant Christians?

3) Was the Michael ever baptized? (I know, Baptists may snicker...but you shouldn’t...)

4) Was Michael spanked/disciplined when he first learned to manipulate with his terrible tantrums?


102 posted on 05/13/2012 6:13:42 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Persevero

It’s like asking how much of a bad piano concert is due to the pianist and how much is due to the piano. Except we can’t examine either alone. It has not been given to humans to see every possibility and sometimes it’s wiser to refrain from assuming the worst when it is unclear. God won’t make a mistake; people can.


103 posted on 05/13/2012 7:08:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns

(4) is an example of petitio principii (aka logical fallacy of begging the question)


104 posted on 05/13/2012 7:09:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: hosepipe
Any spoiled child is a Psychopath....

Spoiled children end up being liberals. Abused children can end up as psychopaths.

105 posted on 05/13/2012 7:14:49 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke

If you see this as a second amendment issue, you may need a bit of therapy yourself.


106 posted on 05/13/2012 7:21:20 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: copwife
Future Harvard Law professor?

Or a cop.

107 posted on 05/13/2012 7:26:02 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Blue Ink

Because such a calloused rejection by one’s parents wouldn’t scar the most normal of children right? As a parent myself, it’s easy to recognize that no sane parent would give your suggestion even a moments thought.


108 posted on 05/13/2012 7:37:48 PM PDT by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: hosepipe

I don’t know if I’d call a spoiled child a psychopath.

That’s a bit of a stretch.


109 posted on 05/13/2012 7:51:47 PM PDT by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (I love you so much,Pumpkin. You're the best cat in the world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: The KG9 Kid

Blaming the identity of other persons on ignorance isn’t very intelligent.


110 posted on 05/13/2012 8:45:11 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Persevero

The brain is interesting in that its anatomy and physiology(its actual neurons, synapses,and neurotransmitters)are constantly changing through our lives. I think of it like a garden that is constantly growing and being pruned. And what decides the pruning is, in part, environmental - for young children largely their parents. That is how I understand that there can be both “evil” and structural MRI differences in a brain. “Evil” (intentional or not) can cause over time these structural differences as the “evil” of the dominant mom mixed with the “evil” of the passive dad mixed with the “evil” of no concept of God being taught to the child etc. can all come together to physically prune this child’s brain in a certain pathological way. The good news of course is that God in his infinite mercy through the truth of His Word can “renew the minds” - rewire the pathological connections - of anyone who will allow Him to.


111 posted on 05/13/2012 8:54:22 PM PDT by Be Loved GA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: taxcontrol
I am of the opinion that “first born syndrome” comes directly from the parents who dote hand and foot on the first born.

I so agree with that. Also, the "attachment parenting" movement should man up and accept a lot of the blame for creating these monsters.

One famous "attachment parenting expert" was so blind to what she had done she reported on her blog that her oldest was suffering from some (what seemed to me) shock like symptoms when she came home with his little sister! He cried and cried and didn't speak to her for several days, in fact, he seemed to have lost his ability to coherently speak for a few days.

112 posted on 05/13/2012 8:59:25 PM PDT by Bodleian_Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke
I read this and it chilled me to the core. I have a friend who has a grandaughter like Michael. She is 16 and living in some sort of a treatment center and this isn't the first one she has been in. Things don't seem to be working out even with the best treatment available. One of these days she will be of age and they won't be able to hold her anymore.
113 posted on 05/13/2012 9:01:52 PM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
It’s safe to say “Michael” is going to cause plenty of harm in the near future.

One of my nieces on my wife's side was like a devil-child when young. She looked possessed, had tantrums, ran around like crazy doing bad stuff. One time I took her to a playground at the park, she bullied older children, pushing and punching others out of the way on a slide. Needless to say, I punished her while apologizing to the other older children. As a teenager, she grew out of it. Now, as a young adult in her twenties, she is shy sweet and gentle - 180 degrees opposite. Me and my wife are puzzled, thinking maybe she did have a demon that left her a while ago.

114 posted on 05/13/2012 9:02:29 PM PDT by roadcat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke
It's nothing that a few years in the right karate dojo won't clear right up. He might come home bloodied and bruised a few times, but none the worse for wear.

One of my own sons was always cold and detached from a very young age (his pre-school teachers called him the "ice man"). With a little love and understanding - and several years of karate training - he's turning out to be a very fine young man. Now he's about to graduate from college and has trained and studied diligently these past three years to become a Navy Seals candidate. I've also discovered that he has a very deep love of family that just isn't visible from the surface.

I have no doubt that the "tough love" he found in the karate dojo was a key contributor to his successful development as a person.

115 posted on 05/14/2012 1:06:40 AM PDT by The Duke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD
Sometimes it can be the parents but I’m convinced that sometimes it can just as easily be the mixture. Parents simply can’t be blamed for everything.

Agreed. The eternal nature versus nurture argument. I know of similar parents. It's puzzling and more than a bit scary -- the parents tried their darndest///

116 posted on 05/14/2012 3:56:41 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke

Great article. This kid might not turn into the next Ted Bundy but I don’t think that this is behavior that can just go away as they get older. These kids as they get older and more in control of themselves learn to hide the rages and learn how to act “properly” to get what they want from society. Its usually one thing that touches them and they shape their lives into getting that “high”.

The article talks about some, throwing the baby in the deep end of the pool and pulling up a chair to see what happens, or slowly cutting the tail off a cat piece by piece. Arsonists burn things not for any reason other than to watch something burn. For serial killers they get off on watching that moment when the life slips out of a persons eyes and some more get through life on making as much money as they possibly can.

I’m not sure these behavior’s can ever be fixed and I tend to think the one’s that “grow” out of it really don’t they just hide it very well. As for the boy in the article, he should be pulled out of the home, the fact that he routinely makes viable threats to the life of his brother should be reason enough to have him put away to see if he can ever function properly in society.


117 posted on 05/14/2012 4:29:00 AM PDT by eak3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke
The kid is possessed by a demon or demons.

Get an exorcism going.
118 posted on 05/14/2012 5:54:41 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RWB Patriot

I did not indicate applying the switch at the slightest provocation. I specificaly call out applying at the start of a tantrum. The child needs to learn to control themselves. If they do not control themselves, society will control them. Pain association therpy does a great job of teaching a child what is not acceptable behaviour. First, even before a tantrum starts, teach what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. When the tantrum starts, give a warning and allow the child the opportunity to self correct. If they do not, apply the switch.

And before anyone starts shouting abuse, believe me, I know abuse, and this is not abuse. In fact, it is love and kindness because a child that does not learn to control themselves will have the lesson taught to them the hard way. Not correcting a child is setting them up for failure.


119 posted on 05/14/2012 6:44:07 AM PDT by taxcontrol
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

I worked for one at a large corporation. She made one guy kill himself. Put another into a mental hospital. Publicly humiliated everyone in her group. Kept all our planned raises for herself and froze our salaries for three years. Gave everyone in her group a “5” (unsatisfactory; fire them). Made each of us sit in her office while she read our reports, sentence by sentence, making fun of them and scolding us (she couldn’t string two sentences together). Utterly irrational. Mad as a hatter. Got promoted. I was the only one in the group who fought her up to the VP level. Made her retract my 5 rating and rate me as “satisfactory.” VP of corporate ethics hired a PI and made him hide all her wrong-doing. Oh, yes; this was Digital Equipment Corporation on the way down to oblivion.


120 posted on 05/14/2012 7:17:40 AM PDT by pabianice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

What a pity. Sounds like her tenure was in order to do someone a favor.


121 posted on 05/14/2012 7:22:04 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke

“Possessed” comes mind.

Also a failure to properly apply “pain association techniques” for undesirable behaviors. Might not be effective in this case, though.


122 posted on 05/14/2012 7:24:47 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Little Ray

Even in the gospel times, persons who hurt themselves habitually were regarded as possessed or nuts, rather than moral failures.


123 posted on 05/14/2012 7:38:26 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

From the article: And there are other challenges. Since psychopathy is highly heritable, Lynam says, a child who is cold or callous is more likely to have a parent who is the same way. And because parents don’t necessarily bond to children who behave cruelly, those children tend to get punished more and nurtured less, creating what he calls “a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

“It reaches a point where the parents just stop trying,” Lynam said. “A lot of the training is about trying to get these kids’ parents to re-engage, because they feel like they’ve tried it all and nothing works.”

Anne admitted to me that this had been her experience. “As horrible as this is to say, as a mom, the truth is that you put up a wall. It’s like being in the army, facing a barrage of fire every day. You have to steel yourself against the outbursts and the hate.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Waschbusch is fumbling around arbitrarily applying negative and positive reinforcement. These kids are products of their environment and Waschbusch should be removed from practice. He’s making things worse and seeminly ignorant of basic behavioral interventions that actually work.


124 posted on 05/14/2012 7:57:45 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: RoosterRedux

From the article: And there are other challenges. Since psychopathy is highly heritable, Lynam says, a child who is cold or callous is more likely to have a parent who is the same way. And because parents don’t necessarily bond to children who behave cruelly, those children tend to get punished more and nurtured less, creating what he calls “a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

“It reaches a point where the parents just stop trying,” Lynam said. “A lot of the training is about trying to get these kids’ parents to re-engage, because they feel like they’ve tried it all and nothing works.”

Anne admitted to me that this had been her experience. “As horrible as this is to say, as a mom, the truth is that you put up a wall. It’s like being in the army, facing a barrage of fire every day. You have to steel yourself against the outbursts and the hate.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Waschbusch is fumbling around arbitrarily applying negative and positive reinforcement. These kids are products of their environment and Waschbusch should be removed from practice. He’s making things worse and seeminly ignorant of basic behavioral interventions that actually work.

Michael has a problem - the adults in his life.


125 posted on 05/14/2012 7:59:07 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Melas

The objective is to mitigate a terrible, desperate situation — for all parties, not just the troubled boy — before a tragedy occurs.

How could you read that story and not see a tragedy coming down the line, as sure as a train headed toward a car parked on tracks? It’s absolutely inevitable. That boy is going to seriously hurt or kill one of his siblings. Did you READ the mother’s just-kidding-but-not-really joking on the subject? She knows, in her heart of hearts. It’s chilling.

Of course taking him out of the home will hurt him. And his parents. I don’t know how his siblings might feel about it. But leaving him there till the inevitable catastrophe occurs is worse.


126 posted on 05/14/2012 8:50:41 AM PDT by Blue Ink
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: taxcontrol

Hey - I’m a first born. When the new borns came along, I was expected to be their babysitter. I was a built in nanny, cook, and housekeeper. I ended up raising my sisters and by the time I left the house, I didn’t want to get married because I’d already been a surrogate mother and wife.

However, meeting the right man, the baby of his family, a gentle, fun loving guy who was actually doted on by his family When his mother came to live with us, I found out just how spoiled he was.

We raised an “only”. She married a guy with lots of brothers and sisters. She’s part of a big family and it’s funny to hear her reactions to them. Her husband likes that she’s an only but said he can certainly tell.

Our son-in-law was talking about some virus he read about that attacks ants and makes them do it’s will. I’ve read that certain mental illnesses may actually be caused, at least in part, by virus or bacterial infection. Nurture has as roll in our outcome, but I believe that nature is probably a bigger part of that equation.

By the way, are you a middle kid? Just wondering.


127 posted on 05/14/2012 8:58:59 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: stansblugrassgrl
When his mother came to live with us, I found out just how spoiled he was.

Glad it worked out for you. Somewhat similar story. I work out with a guy who is in mid 40's. Super nice guy, good job. Never married-still lives at home. His mom washes his clothes and makes his breakfast and dinner. He still does stuff like when he was in college-going out to bars. He asked me one day if still living at home at his age is the reason why women turn him down for dates or don't date him after a few dates when they find out. I didn't know what to say. My gf knows him and laughs all the time that it's way past time his mom cuts the cord.

128 posted on 05/14/2012 10:12:35 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: trailhkr1

Luckily, mine isn’t that bad. One thing his mom did right - taught him to respect women. He spoils me and is a great husband. So good that I’ve kept him around for 31+ years now.

We were over at our kid’s house. Our son-in-law had a couple of friends over who are college students. Geeky types. He was telling them how they needed to act to get into a relationship. I so wanted to say “moving out of your mom’s house would be a good start”. Both kids still lived at home and were in their late 20’s.


129 posted on 05/14/2012 10:23:28 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke
I read this piece this morning. I just read it again.

I won't claim to know what has gone wrong, here.

I do know this: Right now, that kid has a date with a bullet.

It's a matter of "when", not "if".

130 posted on 05/14/2012 10:29:24 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trailhkr1

-—Modern science is finding murders and violent people have the same brain structure-missing key chemical areas in the brain normal people have.——

There may be correlation but no causal relationship, or cause and effect could be reversed: repeatedly choosing evil could affect brain structure.

I’m wary of reducing free will to a brain state.


131 posted on 05/14/2012 10:48:04 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Irish Rose

Yes but she is still trading it like it is a joke and nt something that WILL happen.


132 posted on 05/14/2012 10:54:10 AM PDT by chris_bdba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Melas

I don’t think this child is the issue he is already gone it is the other 2 kids that need to be protected and if their parents r others parents don;t see that then when he does kill the other kids they will be just as guilty for not protecting them.It doesn’t matter how much you love this one it is begin a real paent and seeing that the others need protecting form this one.


133 posted on 05/14/2012 11:05:09 AM PDT by chris_bdba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: Melas

I don’t think this child is the issue he is already gone it is the other 2 kids that need to be protected and if their parents r others parents don;t see that then when he does kill the other kids they will be just as guilty for not protecting them.It doesn’t matter how much you love this one it is begin a real parent and seeing that the others need protecting form this one.


134 posted on 05/14/2012 11:05:12 AM PDT by chris_bdba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke
The symptoms described in the article are way beyond that sort of rivalry

Sadly, I agree and I feel so sad for the parents.

A good friend of mine is a child psychologist. Many years ago, there was a tragedy in California where a 7 year old child killed a playmate by repeatedly bashing in his head with a rock.

I asked my friend how a child could possibly do this and what do you do about the child. He replied, just as was discussed in the article, that at that age the violent behavior is hardwired and there is virtually nothing one can do about it. The child is virtually predestined to repeat such violent acts.........

My friend is associated with the Wayne State school of Psychology here in Detroit. About 14 years ago he was assigned to do some research counseling at a prison located in Pontiac. The majority of the inmates he had to work with were murderers who came from the maximum security area of the prison. He said this was scariest study that he had ever had to conduct in his life and that he literally was afraid to be in close contact with these people......

135 posted on 05/14/2012 1:40:50 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My 6 pack abs are now a full keg......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Waywardson
You never hear of this crap from Christian families. Spare the rod, spoil the child. Period.

I would disagree and I would also offer that had this article never been printed in the NY Times we would never have heard of Michael or the scrutiny being given to this type of uncontrolled behavior.

Nothing was said about their christian background, or lack of, since it had no relevance to the problem........

Christian families are no more isolated from the behavior problems of their children as non-christian.......

If you would have read the article in its entirety you would have found that the behavior of Michael is far beyond the capacity of any loving family such as his to create the monster that he has become.......and will likely continue to be.

136 posted on 05/14/2012 1:59:23 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My 6 pack abs are now a full keg......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: stansblugrassgrl

No I’m the 2nd and last kid. My father used to half joke that I was the child that broke them of wanting to have more kids. Have 3 myself. Wanted more but the wife nixed the idea.


137 posted on 05/14/2012 2:00:38 PM PDT by taxcontrol
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

You sound like you are swallowing Lynam’s speculations as gospel reports about the family. I see nothing inferrable here about it.


138 posted on 05/14/2012 2:26:21 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: Half Vast Conspiracy

http://www.blufftontoday.com/blog-post/2009-02-22/boy-11-kills-pregnant-stepmom-his-own-gun#.T7GCCehI-So

This wacko was only two years older than Michael. But do keep that head of yours in the sand Bubba. I’ll ensure I and my family is safe.


139 posted on 05/14/2012 3:08:40 PM PDT by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Naming something with a fancy Latin term, without explaining what you mean, is an example of intellectual snobbery...

From the article, especially since Michael could start and stop his tantrums at will... it did appear that he was manipulating his parents (even if for childish, nonsensical-to-adults reasons).

Although the writer indicated the mother was strict, no-where did it indicate that Michael consistently received any serious consequences for his terrible behavior. Should he get spanks for every infraction? Of course not, but willful disobedience....needs serious consequences.

The calm “I hate him” and other creepy behavior made me suspect not merely lack of discipline (i.e. spankings) is at work here, but possibly the occult.


140 posted on 05/14/2012 3:58:05 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns

I explained it. Latin sometimes hints that a line of thought is very, very old and well established. But I explained it in English. There is no syllogism and no conclusion. Only your trumpeting of your personal gut judgment with scarcely any evidence to base it upon.


141 posted on 05/14/2012 4:19:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: Hot Tabasco

I for one, did read the article. While the writer claimed the parents were strict—and had followed every kind of advice and book they could get their hands on—nowhere did it indicate that Michael had consistently received serious consequences for his terrible behavior. Spankings to the NYT kind of writer/editor are OF COURSE off limits.

Christian scripture though, says it shouldn’t be. Angry abusive spankings/beatings are usually confused by modern liberals with normal parental discipline, which should never be done in anger. So they do neither, and permissiveness reigns, which is really awful for a willful child.

Kid’s at 1.5 years old will start to test boundries and pull mommy’s chain, as much as possible...depending on the personality of the child. If the terribly violent tantrums brought nothing but pain (spankings) or other thoughtful punishments appropriate to the crime...(and NOT attention—catering-to & doting, which is usually what they’re wanting) then kids learn that its not worth it.

It sounds as if this yuppie couple did just the opposite, doting on and trying to molify the angry child—so he just kept it up (as that’s what he wanted...). When they started out of weariness to not dote—he just upped the volume and time...until they did, again and again and again. The article sounds like the parents’ lack of consistent serious consequences (discipline) really were part of the problem.

The kid’s seeming planned creepiness, and coolly proclaimed hatred for his brother...also make me wonder at what kind of religious ethics the parents have too—as no child should be allowed to express and hold that kind of rank evil attitude, even at age 9. A typical college educated morally-pluralistic couple though, may think otherwise....


142 posted on 05/14/2012 4:22:46 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns

SIGH. This boy’s conduct does not evince your typical “spoiled child of liberals.” It goes well into the region of abnormal psychology. Way way off the bell curve. Even the gospels would have referred to such conduct as either crazy or possessed. Not as poor moral training.


143 posted on 05/14/2012 4:30:10 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD
The parents are, apparently unknowingly, using reinforcement to create Michael. He gets a ton of attention for acting “crazy”, therefore you get more craziness.

Spot on.

Let's see, the older brother screams and yells...and brandishes a chair over his head, threatening his brother, WITH NO NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES???

Then after being over the top angry for an HOUR (!!!), calms down, and threatens his brother openly in front of his father (whom he clearly doesn't respect...)?

Sounds like years of neglect of discipline (including spankings) to me...

144 posted on 05/14/2012 4:39:10 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
Naming something with a fancy Latin term, without explaining what you mean, is an example of intellectual snobbery...

One, it's not an uncommon term that educated shouldn't be expected to recognize. Two, he gave a parenthetical explanation along with the term.

The calm “I hate him” and other creepy behavior made me suspect not merely lack of discipline (i.e. spankings) is at work here, but possibly the occult.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I find the sheer number of replies that reference the occult as a possible explanation to be far scarier than I found the account of Michael.

145 posted on 05/14/2012 4:42:48 PM PDT by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

I don’t know Lyman, but I do know positive reinforcement and behaviorism. It works, but can be destructive if misused. You’re right, I don’t have all the information and perhaps the writer is skewing the story and misreporting (I’ve heard that some liberals even lie in print).

That said what’s happened here sounds like this couple had a challenging child, like many others have had. The dad is passive, the mom’s aggressve, they both use game playing and reinforcement to bring out the worst in Michael. They’ve had plenty of opportunity to redirect him and praise him for being good. Instead they’ve got a drama going on.

Read again how the dad reacts to the littlest child messing with Michael’s game. The little kid deserves to be stopped and redirected. The dad should respect Michael’s game, which was paused so he could continue playing. Instead you get what sounds like a daytime drama directed by the dad. Michael’s simply acting accordingly to the inputs of his environment. He’s being created through reinforcement.

Now I’m not saying that Michael isn’t on the spectrum. What I’m saying is that his parents could act in such a way as to reduce his tendencies to extinction. Worse, the “experts” are ruining the dozen children in their “experiment” by mixing negative and positive reinforcement. The negative reinforcement is amplified for normal people and is known to be ineffective. In “callous-unemotional” children it is like catnip. You get more, not less of the abnormal condition.

So here’s this kid, my heart goes out to him, where every adult in his life is failing him.


146 posted on 05/14/2012 4:48:02 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

If only there were a simple way to display standard deviations as bar graphs, you could probably get through to the wall of ignorance that just seems to think Michael needed more spankings or more/better religious instruction. Two standard deviations outside the norm is clinically incredible.

Either way, you’re probably wasting your time. I gave up yesterday.


147 posted on 05/14/2012 4:52:33 PM PDT by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 143 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Yes I did assume Michael is manipulative, since the article did indicate that he could switch his emotions on or off...but that wasn’t begging, as that wasn’t my question.

I asked (and continue to ask this) was Michael spanked/disciplined appropriately when he first started to misbehave? Has there been any consistent approach to discipline? Or just the chaotic non-approach described in the article?

The article doesn’t say (since, as I said, it is quite safe to assume to the NYTimes, any spanking is child abuse...), it does indicate a lenient father and “strict” mother who aren’t on the same page on how to approach the problem.

Any child who can physically threaten a sibling, and defy and disrespect his father...with no negative consequences...will behave badly—and worse again, (and again, and again) especially if that’s the pattern for years.


148 posted on 05/14/2012 5:12:58 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns

Well first off, when talking about the library that had been amassed by the parents I thought they listed a title or two from Dr. James Dobson, who is not shy about spanking.

Second off, you are assuming it’s a willful choice by the son. Not a state of mind that goes and comes with little or no consent on his part. I will say it in pure English this time: you are begging the question.


149 posted on 05/14/2012 5:15:46 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

There is always the wild card of the news reportage itself, which can tell us black was white and we never would know because we weren’t there and had nobody else to verify it for us.

But it sounds like they’ve looked at some Dr. James Dobson works. That ought to take care of the “oh, they never looked at spanking” angle if nothing else does.

Anyhow if the boy’s actions are so wild he literally wounds his own self, even the bible recognizes such conduct as beyond mere human moral failure. Jesus delivered several such persons from either real or figurative demons.


150 posted on 05/14/2012 5:21:20 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-160 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson