Skip to comments.What Zimmerman, Martin medical reports tell us and the media didn't
Posted on 05/16/2012 2:07:07 PM PDT by Bobbys1963
The new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they dont find.
First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martins injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound.
Zimmermans injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury.
It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martins attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmermans hands? Where are the bruises on Martins face or other parts of his body? . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Al Sharpton is seen again as a liar and Racist.
Oh wait wasn't Trayvon BHO's son.
But it can’t be true, Martin only wanted to get his skittles home to his sick mama then was going to head for church as he is a choir boy.
He’s got a broken face.
Any lawyers out there who want to clarify that. What words would Zimmerman have had to utter to constitute a provocation?
What are you doing here? You don't belong here. I don't like your hoodie. I don't like Black people. The "N" word. I'm going to shoot you.
Are there any words that would justify a retaliation with a physical assault?
The contemptible prosecutor should be on the business end of “hate crime” charges.
Not that the DA will care. Even if it’s established to everyone’s satisfaction that Martin started the fight and ZImmerman was losing—and that will never happen—they’ll still contend that Zimmerman *really* started it. They’ll say Martin wasn’t doing anything wrong, that Zimmerman precipitated violent conflict by “profiling” him for being black and wearing a hoodie, by “following” and “confronting” him (which are apparently now crimes in themselves, even though Zimmerman’s not charged with them), and by being motivated by a depraved mindset whereby, I don’t know, he thinks all potential robbers (especially black ones) should be murdered.
Well, yeah, but don’t the medical reports also mention the essential facts: that Martin was Black, and Zimmerman White?
Trayvon was a punk. He should not have jumped Zimmerman since Zimmerman was not threatened him. Typical punk. Did Trayvon get what he deserved? Zimmerman had no choice. This pony show by Florida is a pure example that maybe the time has come to dump a lot of heads.
Welcome to Obama's 'reverse parallel universe'.
I believe this is why Obama has the FBI looking in to filing "hate crime" charges. He has a lot invested in this case politically.
I still ask how Zimmerman got from his car where he was perfectly safe, to the street where he got beat up and Martin got shot? Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin by the dispatcher when he called the police, and he was in his car then.
A visit to DU confirms your theory.
If I recall correctly, when Zimmerman’s attorney was questioning the prosecutor’s office detective during the bond hearing, did he not ask him if he had seen the medical files. I believe he responded no. I think the attorney then asked if he would like to see them but said the prosecution has an avenue to obtain them.
Having the records shown on the state’s evidence list indicates to me this is a lame attempt to provide esculpatory evidence now rather than in the complaint in which it belonged. If that is true and if it is also correct they had the medical file at the time of charging, they could be in deep legal do do with the judge. This case could get tossed long before trial on a prosecutorial error which would be great.
Bring popcorn when the preliminary hearing begins. If the state has nothing more than is indicated by the witness list, they have no chargable case.
He was told NO SUCH THING. The dispatcher said we don’t need you to do that, quite different then saying don’t do that.
“we don’t NEED you to do that” is not a lawful order from a police officer.
And another thing- Zim’s atty needs to start building a case. Arguably, some violated his civil rights in the pursuit of a favorable political outcome, which she spearheaded. And in the process we might be surprised (or not) how far up the chain the pressure flowed.
“Are there any words that would justify a retaliation with a physical assault?”
Yes. They are called “fighting words.” I don’t know if “nigger” alone would count, but “I’m going to shoot you” definitely would. Certainly in that situation.
The thing is, there’s no evidence of that on the 9-11 tape, nor did the neighbor who witnessed the fight hear it, nor Martin’s girlfriend, so far as I can tell. The fight started somehow, and it could have been Zimmerman’s fault. Not just fighting words, but sudden movements and brandishing his weapon would count. But the burden of proof is on the prosecution. They have to present evidence that Zimmerman instigated the violence, and so far all they have is that he followed Martin and “confronted” him, which could mean anything.
They have what they thinkis evidence of a depraved mindset in his obsession with stopping crime and in possibly profiling Martin. Such is necessary for 2nd degree murder, but not sufficient. You can kill someone in self-defense with a depraved mindset, when they threatened your life. A rabid racist can kill a black man who attacked him out of the blue, even if he also took great racist pleasure in it. You have to have started the fight to lose the right of self-defense. And to be convicted for having started it, the state needs evidence to prove you did.
Race riots to follow in all cities dominated by liberals.
“Oh wait wasn’t Trayvon BHO’s son.”
Why, yes he was. Trayvon was an SOB (son of barack).
Sorry but to me that means "quit following the guy."
Zimmerman had no authority to confront anyone IMO. Even if he was witnessing a theft, his job was to call the police, observe license numbers, descriptions etc but never to intentionally confront. He had no training for anything like that. And that is essentially why he is sitting where he is today. And unfortunately, a young guy is dead.
“I still ask how Zimmerman got from his car where he was perfectly safe, to the street where he got beat up and Martin got shot? “
Even if true, stupidity is not a crime, nor does it vitiate self-defense
Is a drunk woman wearing a slutty dress walking in an alley at 2:30am not entitled to shoot her rapist?
This case ceased being about the evidence during media circus. Now it's primarily about skin color and retribution. This may get real ugly!
Check out the moron on the video, saying Zimmerman went to the wrong doctor.
Dispatchers don’t give lawful orders.
Thank you for that excellent, well-reasoned reply.
Wrong. George had already exited his vehicle when the dispatcher told him not to follow Martin.
News to me that Zimmerman was in his car when told not to follow Martin. All indications were that he was on foot, said ok to the request not to follow, and was on a path to return to his vehicle to meet with the Police.
Am I wrong?
Since the prosecution does not have physical evidence to support the charges she has made, she must be going for proving Zimmerman started the fight. Zimmerman’s supporters say he has witnesses to support his story. I don’t know that anyone saw the fight begin.
“Can any lawyers out there either confirm or refute my strong suspicion that we’re seeing the rapid unraveling of the State’s case and that it’s likely that we’ll see the charges dropped....sooner rather than later?”
I’m no lawyer, but I remember a Levin talk with another attorney.
They agreed the Florida Special Prosecutor was under political pressure to charge, even though police and the local prosecutor declined.
So she charged, and has submitted the evidence, evidence which doesn’t support 2nd degree murder.
But even if the 2nd degree murder doesn’t hold up, the political pressure remains.
The professional negro agitators and community organizers won’t let it rest.
At some point in the future, Zimmerman is like OJ, beats the criminal case, but faces civil damage charges.
“I still ask how Zimmerman got from his car where he was perfectly safe, to the street where he got beat up and Martin got shot?”
I think I heard he was looking to see what street he was on, or something. It wouldn’t matter, anyway. Getting out of your car is not to forfeit your right to self-defense. It would have to be demonstrated that he got out of his car and proceeded to confront Martin in such a way as to force Martin into defending himself with violence.
The medical evidence doesn’t suggest that was the case, but it’s still possible. Still, if Zimmerman started the fight the prosecution has to prove it. The fact that he got out of his truck does no such thing.
“Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin by the dispatcher when he called the police, and he was in his car then.”
He wasn’t exactly told not to, they just said they don’t need him to. Even if he was talking to the police, I don’t believe they’re empowered, away from the scene like that, to lawfully order him not to follow, as following is not illegal. That being said, do we know he was still following Martin after the supposed quasi-police quasi-order? We know there was a confrontation and a fight afterwards, but do we know that even if the fight wouldn’t have happened had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle to track Martin? So far as I know, that has not been established.
So at best we don’t know whether Zimmerman disobeyed the dispatcher. It’s very possible that he got out to read a street sign, or whatever he said, and that Martin, of his own violition, deliberately came upon him. But let’s say it was the opposite, and Zimmerman got out of his car in order to start a fist fight with Martin, in the hopes that he’d be able to use his gun on him. Again, the prosecution has to prove it, and again, Zimmerman getting out of the truck does no such thing.
Its funny because the FBI invented profiling. It works!!
You are correct. It was during Zimmerman’s return path to his truck when Martin jumped Zimmerman and began his assault. Zimmerman was retreating when Martin attacked.
Proof that even FReepers can blow the facts in this case. I see at least two incorrect things right there.
Jewbacca for the win.
I heard Crump already say that Martin’s knuckles were bruised from bravely trying to disarm a crazed Zimmerman.
Yes, the prosecution will claim that Zimmerman said something and then flashed the pistol. Martin feared for his life and tried to take the pistol away from Zimmerman, fighting for several minutes knowing that his life was in jeopardy, but lost to the larger, white man.
Zimmerman was told that he didn’t need to do that.
Funny, Crump can anything in his opening argument but when it comes down to producing the evidence to support his contention the well is dry.
I hope this case does not come down to “how long does it take you to prepare your grits”.
I just went there and took a look at their thread. Liberals brag that they are more intelligent than most, but when one of their members actually attempts to say something factual that goes against the emotional aspect, they turn on him like a pack of dogs. I had to laugh when one was accusing the other of being "paid" to post there by Zimmerman's family.
Thank God I'm a conservative.
An individual needs no “authority” to approach another individual he feels is acting suspiciously and ask him “What are you doing?”.
That said, Zimmerman was the elected captain of the neighborhood watch, so his behavior should not be considered out of place.
Of course, the other individual (Martin in this case) has every right to ignore that person or tell him to go to hell, but he has no right to start viciously beating him and threaten to kill him.
Have you been trained to post opinions on the internet?
Show me your license to post, otherwise I'll have to assume you are acting illegally.
“Sorry but to me that means ‘quit following the guy.’”
Even if it does, how do you know he kept following him? Getting out of the truck doesn’t prove it. There are other reasons for getting out of the truck. If it meant “quit following the guy,” as you say, was Zimmerman bound to abide it? Can the police, if that was the police, legally order you not to follow someone over the phone? I don’t know.
“Zimmerman had no authority to confront anyone IMO”
Since when do we need authority to confont others? Confrontation is not a illegal. It amazes me that people are suddenly pretending it is. If it were, a lot more people would be in jail.
“Even if he was witnessing a theft, his job was to call the police, observe license numbers, descriptions etc but never to intentionally confront”
What sort of intentional confrontation do you have in mind? I didn’t hear much of anything on the 9-11 call beyond Zimmerman observing and reporting. So far the prosecution hasn’t revealed anything more than what we’ve learned from the tape, which leads me to believe that the confrontation mentioned in the affidavit consisted of him following and reporting on Martin. That does not a violent confrontation make. Only violence, or the immediate precipitation of it through fighting words, threatening gestures, brandishing of weapons, etc., makes for an illegal confrontation. Unless, that is, someone has a restraining order against you, or something. That is not the case here.
You and the prosecution must have heard a secret tape with him yelling out “Hey, kid, I’m commin to get ya!” Otherwise, I think you’re talking out of your ass about this intentional confrontation stuff.
“He had no training for anything like that.”
Anything like what? You haven’t yet described exactly what it is that he did, aside from following and reporting to 9-11. What did this confrontation which precipitated the fight and removed Zimmerman’s ability to assert self-defense consist of? Did he yell “Get out of my neighborhood, nigger,” or what?
“that is essentially why he is sitting where he is today”
No, he’s sitting there because he kinda sorta looks white, shot an unarmed black youth, and the MSM, the usual rabble-rousers, and various politicians went into a tizzy over it. That is, if by sitting where he is you mean specifically charged as he is. I could see him charged with manslaughter, or something, without the hoopla. But not murder 2. That’s ridiculous.
IANAL, nor do I play one on TV, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
BUT I am fairly certain that the concept of “fighting words” has gone by the wayside long ago, and that you simply aren’t justified in starting a physical altercation if someone used what might be considered same by some.
“she must be going for proving Zimmerman started the fight. Zimmermans supporters say he has witnesses to support his story”
If witnesses can support his story they’re free to do so, and that’d be good for his case. But he doesn’t need to support anything. The burden is on the prosecution. They have to prove that he started the fight, and I don’t see any possible way they can. Him profiling, following, and somehow “confronting” Martin is not enough. Neither is disobeying the dispatcher, if he did.
They have to show he said or did something which left Martin free to defend himself with violence. The medical evidence tends to contradict that, and potentially witnesses may. But the point is, it’s entirely up to the DA to prove it, and I’m almost certain she can’t.
Thank you for your reasoned responses on this thread.
“I heard Crump already say that Martins knuckles were bruised from bravely trying to disarm a crazed Zimmerman...Martin feared for his life and tried to take the pistol away from Zimmerman, fighting for several minutes knowing that his life was in jeopardy, but lost to the larger, white man.”
I might wonder why trying to disarm someone would harm only your knuckles. And if there was a struggle which Zimmerman eventually won, why did Zimmerman not also have bruised knucles, and why were there not injuries to the rest of Martin’s body in the manner of Zimmerman. How is it possible for Martin to have so injured Zimmerman in taking away his gun and for Zimmerman to end up with the gun eventually without similarly injuring Martin? it boggles the mind.
Let’s say that’s how it happened. Fine. How does the prosecution prove it? They’d have to prove that it happened as you say, and that Zimmerman’s injuries resulted from Martin’s struggle to get the gun. How? There’s no evidence in the world that I’m aware of. This case is a loser.
I was listening to a Tampa based radio show while walking the dogs this evening and heard the black community’s first rebuttals to this new evidence. One caller’s theory is that because trayvon TUABY (the unarmed black youth) was ...unarmed, it was unfair for a grown man to introduce a gun into a fist fight. I am going to call this one the “take your beating and hope for best” theory. But my favorite from today’s callers was the man who insisted that it not possible to beat a bald man’s head on the ground against his will.
The scariest thing that I heard was a couple of callers who had listened to the 911 tapes. Their take was that someone needed visit the houses nearest the shooting and convince some of those people to “admit” what they saw that night. I feel so sorry for the people who cannot afford to get the heck out of that community. It is likely to get a whole lot crazier before this is over.