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Arizona elections chief seeks proof of Obama's citizenship
yahoo.com ^ | 5/18/2012 | Tim Gaynor

Posted on 05/19/2012 3:44:41 AM PDT by Las Vegas Dave

Arizona's secretary of state said Friday he had asked officials in Hawaii to verify that Barack Obama was born in their state in order for the president's name to appear on the November ballot in Arizona.

Ken Bennett, who is Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney's campaign co-chairman in Arizona, said he made the request on behalf of a constituent.

Earlier this year, hardline Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio announced that an investigation by his office had found that Obama's birth certificate was a forgery.

Most Republican critics of Obama have given up pushing widely discredited long-running allegations that he was not born in the United States.

Bennett said he is attempting to confirm that Obama's name can appear on Arizona's presidential ballot, the Arizona Republic newspaper said.

While confirming on Friday that he had made the request, Bennett said he did not buy into the "birther" belief.

"First, I have been on the record since 2009 that I believe the president was born in Hawaii. I am not a 'birther,'" he said in a statement.

"At the request of a constituent, I asked the state of Hawaii for a for a verification in lieu of certified copy. We're merely asking them to officially confirm they have the president's birth certificate in their possession and are awaiting their response," he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: arizona; certifigate; dncresumefraud; dncrico; goodresumefraud; kenyan; naturalborncitizen; resumefraud; thekenyan
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To: Cheerio
"There appears to be a lack of understanding, legal precedent, or any clarity at all, in our founding documents and laws that describe who, and when the Presidential requirement to be a NBC is to be asserted or challenged. This needs fixing."

It's called the Twentieth Amendment, Section 3. The burden of proof is on the one seeking the office and he/she must offer this proof to Congress. If there is no proof, he/she has "failed to qualify" and Congress must name an interim president. In this instance, Congress has simply ignored it's oath to support the Constitution and we have a usurpation as the result. We currently do not have a President, just a "resident".

51 posted on 05/19/2012 8:11:45 AM PDT by Uncle Sham
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To: Sal; LucyT; GregNH; Red Steel; David; Seizethecarp; SunkenCiv; Clintonfatigued; Danae; ...
In my opinion, this seemingly simple, reasonable request is a trap.

Could be. Wonder if the SOS is working with Sheriff Joe Arpaio on this. Arpaio could be the "constituent" he was referring to.

Someone in the state of Hawaii would have to risk being charged with misprision of treason if they can be proven a liar about this.

Doubt if "misprision of treason" would be the appropriate charge. Furthermore, that would be a federal charge, and you know that Obama's DOJ isn't going to go there. (Could be perjury if the Hawaii official were asked to swear an oath to the truth of the "verification.")

FYI, I heard of this on ABC radio news on Friday afternoon. There was some snarky reference in their story to the fact that the Arizona SOS Bennett apparently didn't ask Michigan for verification of Mitt Romney's birth there, insinuating that Bennett was biased against Obama.

52 posted on 05/19/2012 8:31:21 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Tunehead54
"The way the request was made seems to allow Hawaii to simply say “Yeah - we got it” - raising nothing to view or to question than what’s already out there. IMHO. ;-("

True. But remember that however this request is answered is subject to follow-up questions from the Posse. A lie cannot survive this approach and if the truth is that there is not a birth certificate, resident Obama is finished. At any rate, ALL of this is creating additional evidence for the posse in confirming their case in court as well as helping to identify those who have committed treason against their country. It's not the Secretary of State they are in fear of, it's the posse.

53 posted on 05/19/2012 8:32:00 AM PDT by Uncle Sham
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To: Uncle Sham

From what I read in an LA Times article, AZ SOS Bennett copied an application form off the internet and sent it in with $5. The HDOH responded by saying he needed to prove he was authorized to request/receive a verification. I would presume that Bennett responded by showing that he is the AZ SOS and has discretion to require candidates to convince him of their eligibility. If he’s done that and it’s been more than 10 business days since he’s heard from them, they could be stalling (par for the course in my experience) and the OIP will have to be involved to force a response out of them. They have to either deny or comply with his request. If they deny his request they have to give a legal reason.
Thing is, if his BC was amended in 2006 as the HDOH admitted, and if there are supporting affidavits as OIP Director Tsukiyama admitted (which would only be necessary for amended and/or late BC’s), then the birth record they have for Obama is not probative/legally valid and HRS 338-13 says that the probative value must be determined when it is presented as evidence to a judicial or administrative person or body. IOW, the State of HI on its own does not vouch for the accuracy of any of the claims on an altered or late BC. If Obama’s is late and/or amended (as is indicated by HDOH and OIP UIPA responses AND by their need to alter the 1960-64 birth index to include legally non-valid names in order to get both Obama’s and Virginia Sunhara’s names on the list at the same time) then Hawaii CANNOT verify any birth facts for Obama. Their law forbids it. The only way there can be any legally-recognized birth facts for Obama based on what is in HI is if Obama actually presents that BC (complete with “ALTERED” stamp on it and notes about what proof was submitted to support the amendment) to a judicial or administrative person or body, who then have to follow the rules of evidence according to legal protocols.
If the HDOH ever DOES verify birth facts for Obama, then they have made conflicting public statements regarding Obama’s records, and Bennett would have to figure out which statement was accurate. That could only be done through an audit of the records, as recommended by a HHS inspector general’s report anyway (see http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf ) That report says that a birth certificate alone should not be used to determine eligibility, especially when much is at stake – for instance, a passport (which was the example they used, contrasting documentation necessary for Little League versus getting a passport). And it says that if there are signs that there could be a forgery (such as a vague or too-light “seal” such as was the case on the photo that Savannah Guthrie posted online) other proofs should be required and the records audited.
That poses a problem for Obama because EVERY “proof” known to exist for him shows signs of tampering:
1. Both the COLB and long-form show signs of forgery (the COLB has a “seal” that doesn’t bend with the fold of the page it’s supposedly on; the electronic file had authenticating marks that could be moved around on the page – clearly C&P’ed from a different document than the rest of the image was taken from; and Savannah Guthrie’s photo has just the kind of indistinct and light “seal” that the OIG report refers to as being too fishy) and conflict with what the HDOH has revealed through UIPA responses.
2. The draft registration is the only one from that post office at that time that lacks the first 2 digits of the 4-digt year stamp.
3. The SSN he used on his tax returns fails e-verify and was issued from Connecticut where Obama never lived.
4. His passport file has been breached 3 times, and sources close to the investigation told Newsmax that the purpose was to sanitize the record. And the one who oversaw the breaches was rewarded with a position as Chief of National Security.
ALL the records are suspect, and for any one of them to be used to determine eligility – according to the OIG recommendations – there would have to be a complete audit to figure out exact;u how and when that record really originated.
No matter how you slice it, Bennett is going to have to demand an audit before he can be sure of anything. There will be immense pressure on him to just bypass that step. We need to pray for him.
Something that may make the HDOH a bit hesitant to illegally “verify” Obama’s birth facts is the realization that if Obama is defeated in the election, we may have an Attorney General who DOESN’T shield all the crooks from federal investigation and prosecution, and at that point an earnest US Attorney in AZ would have everything he needs to throw every complicit person in HI in jail for a very, very long time.
Anything we can do to make it apparent to the HDOH that Eric Holder will not be able to stall justice forever…. will help “convince” Loretta Fuddy to do the right thing, for once in her life. If she does, she will respond to Bennett by saying that she CANNOT verify Obama’s birth facts. At that point Bennett will have what he needs to keep Obama off the ballot.
What we can do right now to help Bennett is to pray for him and to pressure our Congress-critters to hold Eric Holder’s feet to the fire AND to impeach him. Because Eric Holder is the lynchpin for this whole lawless mess we’re in. He’s the placeholder making sure that the feds will protect the crooks rather than prosecute them. If he is taken out of his position the whole lawless dam bursts and the crooks will have to fight to be the first person to turn so they can plea bargain for immunity or a lower charge in return for the goods on everybody else.


54 posted on 05/19/2012 8:32:19 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: justiceseeker93
There was some snarky reference in their story to the fact that the Arizona SOS Bennett apparently didn't ask Michigan for verification of Mitt Romney's birth there, insinuating that Bennett was biased against Obama.

Is that really a fact? Has his birth in Michigan ever been questioned? and how do we know that this hasn't been verified?
55 posted on 05/19/2012 8:41:55 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: butterdezillion

Sigh. I have tried everything in my power to be able to add spacing to this, and whether it’s something here at FR, or in Wordpress, or in Word (where I tried getting the formatting to work), or what - I cannot get ANYBODY to let me add spaces to this. Sigh.

If somebody wants to see it in coherent form I guess you’ll have to see it on my blog. It’s my latest comment on the “Welcome” post, at http://www.butterdezillion.wordpress.com

The basic gist is that if what the HDOH and OIP have already revealed is correct, Hawaii CAN’T verify anything because Obama’s BC is late and/or amended and is thus not legally valid. And if the HDOH realizes that AG Holder won’t forever be able to stave off a federal investigation and prosecution, they may balk at illegally “verifying” what the laws forbid them to verify.

IOW, pressure to get rid of Holder and pressure to get Obama defeated are the best ways - besides praying for him, which is tops - for us to help Bennett do what is necessary and right.

The post also explains why Bennett is not only legally justified but actually should be REQUIRED to demand an audit of ALL Obama’s records.


56 posted on 05/19/2012 8:44:13 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Sal

Hope you’re right! I thought I was wrong once but it turned out I was right so was I ever wrong? Its kind of confusing ... ;-)


57 posted on 05/19/2012 8:52:12 AM PDT by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: butterdezillion; Alamo-Girl
First off, thank you so very much for the incredible research you've provided on this subject. You deserve an "Alamo Girl" award and I mean this as a sincere compliment to both you and Alamo Girl.

I have the feeling that this battle has changed somewhat and perhaps has evolved to one between the Democrat Arkansas mafia and the Democrat Chicago mafia. They see a cliff and are trying to avoid it. The Arkansas mafia probably thinks it can save itself somewhat by revealing the ugly truth about the Chicago mafia. I think both are in a battle to the death. Too much at stake. Whatever transpires will be before the election. Just a gut feeling.

58 posted on 05/19/2012 8:54:59 AM PDT by Uncle Sham
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Keep FR Running
Let's get to Yellow!

59 posted on 05/19/2012 9:09:55 AM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93)
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60 posted on 05/19/2012 9:25:40 AM PDT by devolve (------ ---- ---------toss_subhumans_in_Hannibal*s_wild_boar_pit----------- ---------------------)
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To: Uncle Sham

You may be right.

The communists and Islamists both know that to capture a country you have to first disable its defenses. In America our defense is accountability and the rule of law. That’s why it was so critical for Obama to fill the AG position with a thug who would keep federal law enforcement from investigating and prosecuting anything. That took out any fear of federal watchdogs in the legal system (just as he took out the IG’s who were actually doing their jobs to get rid of any fear of Congressional watchdogs).

Now he knows that it is the states who will present the challenge to him. That’s why he’s been pushing to federalize EVERYTYHING. That’s why AZ can’t be allowed to check for immigration status. That’s why no states can be allowed to require voter ID. That’s why the Selective Service Administration’s microfilms are only allowed to be available to FEDERAL investigators rather than state or local investigators. Etc. He’s trying to get rid of any semblance of law enforcement at the state and local levels.

Kam Kuwata was the executive behind the planning of the 2008 Dem Convention in Denver. At that convention he saw a bizarre episode with Obama, where Obama was totally out of it and was taken to a back room where only a few people were allowed to come and there was chanting going on. When Obama came out he was perked up, blinking constantly, and didn’t recognize Kuwata, who had just spoken with him for 10 minutes a little while before this episode began. Whether it was drugs, hypnosis, cultic ritual, or what, Kuwata didn’t know. But he told some close friends about it.

After Obama was elected, Kuwata ran a campaign against the gal that Obama wanted to be the CA AG. That opened up a sh!t-storm between Obama’s handlers and the allies/friends of Kuwata, including Barbara Boxer. And a couple months after Obama’s choice for AG was elected, Kam Kuwata showed up dead in his apartment. In spite of how busy and well-connected he had been, nobody had missed him for 2 weeks. In accordance with the wishes of the new AG, there was no autopsy done to determine how or why he died. On the day of his memorial service, his good friend Barbara Boxer announced the assassination of Bin Laden - one full hour before Obama himself announced anything.

As you know, the Hillary supporters from 2008 are working with Arpaio’s posse regarding threats and/or assassinations made during the 2008 primary.

It’s not allowed to be linked here, but if anybody wants to Google it, the Ulsterman Report has given early claims about the Bin Laden assassination that have since been vindicated/verified, as well as other at-the-time “insider” claims that have since been vindicated, and those claims include this stuff about Kam Kuwata, which are consistent with the picture of threats and death given by the Hillary supporters that the posse is presumably now investigating. So if you google Ulsterman, Kam Kuwata, Denver convention, etc you can find what Ulsterman has on this. We have no idea who this alleged “White House Insider” is and no way to verify that any of this comes from an insider, but his claims from the past have been accurate.

If these things are all true, then we have a situation where the Arkansas and California dems are at war with the Obama/Soros thugs, and there are top dems and Hillary supporters who know that Soros is planning on destroying this country and that Obama agreed to that agenda. We also know that Obama/Soros is opposed by most of the military, and that even Panetta went over Obama to keep the Bin Laden assassination order active, against the wishes of Obama.

Soros/Obama have been trying to ride the tiger, but they’ve got to know that the tiger is getting ever-closer to tipping things over. Things will soon reach critical mass, and what happens from there is anybody’s guess. I think we’re all uneasy because we know something very big is imminent but can’t really do much about it.


61 posted on 05/19/2012 9:28:34 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Brown Deer
"At the request of a constituent, I asked the state of Hawaii for a for a verification in lieu of certified copy. We're merely asking them to officially confirm they have the president's birth certificate in their possession

So, if Hawaii has his Kenyan (Canadian, Hadean, whatever) birth certificate on file, they can honestly and blandly reply "Why yes, we do have his birth certificate on file"...

*sigh* useless.

62 posted on 05/19/2012 9:39:20 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1215 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: john mirse
2. Or, did the dog eat it?

Then he ate the dog...

63 posted on 05/19/2012 9:42:00 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1215 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: butterdezillion

I see that the AP is now reporting that Hawaii is telling Arizona that they need to prove that they require Obama’s credentials.

Updated: May 19, 2012 3:33 AM CDT
OBAMA-ARIZONA BALLOT

Hawaii to Ariz.: Prove need to verify Obama birth

PHOENIX (AP) - The attorney general’s office in Hawaii is telling Arizona’s secretary of state that if he wants confirmation of President Barack Obama’s birth records, he’ll have to prove he legitimately needs it.

Special Assistant Joshua Wisch said late Friday that Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett hasn’t done that despite numerous email and phone exchanges between their offices.

Wisch says Hawaii state laws require Bennett to show legal authority that this office needs the records to update its official lists as part of its ordinary work.

Wisch says as soon as Bennett gives Hawaii adequate authority, the Aloha State will verify Obama’s birth.

Bennett said in a radio interview this week that Obama’s status on Arizona’s ballot is in question unless Hawaii verifies his birthplace.

Hawaii officials have confirmed multiple times that Obama was born there.


64 posted on 05/19/2012 9:44:27 AM PDT by Elderberry
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To: null and void

No, the form that is used for that asks specifically what you are asking to be verified from the vital record. So the place of birth, time of birth, parents, etc are all being asked for verification.

The problem is that HI cannot verify actual information from a late and/or amended BC because the state does not vouch for the accuracy of anything on a late or amended BC. HRS 338-13 says that the probative value of a late or amended BC is to be determined when presented as evidence to a judicial or administrative person or body.

IOW, if what the HDOH and OIP have already indicated through official UIPA responses is correct, the HDOH CANNOT legally verify anything from Obama’s birth record.

The HDOH has very carefully worded their previous statements to make it appear that they were verifying information, but the statements actually said that the RECORD “verifies” that he was born in HI. “Verifies” simply means swears to, and a complete BC has to include an oath somewhere on it.

Likewise, Fuddy claims that they printed out a BC but never claimed that what Obama posted is the BC that they sent out. And if previous HDOH and OIP responses were accurate, Fuddy would HAVE to know that what Obama presented was not what she sent because the original birth certificate would have to be stamped with “LATE” and/or “ALTERED” on the face of it so that it would show up on any copy made. It would also have to include a notation of what evidence was offered to support the amendment (and then-OIP Director Paul Tsukiyama did indicate that there are affidavits in support of information on Obama’s BC, which is only necessary for late and/or amended BC’s)

In this instance, Bennett is asking the HDOH itself to verify Obama’s birthplace, birthdate, parents, etc. According to what they’ve already revealed, they can’t legally do that. If they claim to legally verify any of those facts, then they’ve got contradictory, mutually-exclusive claims from their office and Bennett would/should be forced to audit the records to find out which of the HDOH’s claims is actually true.


65 posted on 05/19/2012 9:49:51 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Whats-wrong-with-the-truth
What's Rush afraid of?

Gee I dunno, Brietbart drops dead in the street hours before he promised to release the dirt on Obama.

The very next day, Rush gets a suspicious package delivered to his home.

One of the coroners at the office handling Breitbart's autopsy drops dead of arsenic poisoning the very day the autopsy report was scheduled to be released.

They (the ever-present "they") have a new lever to pry on Rush. Pretty bride youse got there, it would be a pity for anything unfortunate to happen to her...

66 posted on 05/19/2012 9:54:13 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1215 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: Tunehead54
"SCOTUS under original jurisdiction then arguably Sotomayor and Kagan would have to recuse themselves as a decision for ineligibility would nullify their appointments"

Hmmmm....and such a decision would then Nullify ALL Legislation "Approved" by the POTUS during such Fraud? Would the Unions be ordered to return all the Stimulus Funds they received, along with all the other Donors who were en-riched? If only ALL those who gained taxpayer $$$$ would be PERSONALLY LIABLE for paying it back, America would have a Resurrection (except for the inner city parasites, who would take to the Streets.....)

67 posted on 05/19/2012 9:58:36 AM PDT by traditional1 (Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: justiceseeker93
Doubt if "misprision of treason" would be the appropriate charge.

Perhaps not, but in life, as in chess, the threat is the thing.

No man's life, liberty or property is safe as long as court is in session...

68 posted on 05/19/2012 10:02:01 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1215 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: Elderberry

Once again Hawaii is totally ignoring/misinterpreting their own laws, as Ken Bennett knows full well. This is what HRS 338-18 says about a letter of verification (found at http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm ):

“(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;

(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;

(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;

(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or

(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes. [L 1949, c 327, §22; RL 1955, §57-21; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 30, §2; HRS §338-18; am L 1977, c 118, §1; am L 1991, c 190, §1; am L 1997, c 305, §5; am L 2001, c 246, §2]”

The HDOH is pretending that Bennett is asking for this under (2) above, but he is clearly asking for it under (3). It is the normal course of operations for the SOS’s office to receive an application for placement on the ballot, and AZ’s application process requires that the candidate be a “natural born US citizen”. Obama has applied to be on the ballot, and Bennett is seeking confirmation of “information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application”. Obama’s AZ application claims he is eligible to be President and that is related to what is actually contained on Obama’s birth record.

The HDOH is trying to stall again. I’ve been through this rat-race with them dozens of times. Unfortunately for them, Bennett has set the default at DENIAL of placement on the ballot. IOW, if the HDOH stalls they’re only making it certain that Obama will not be allowed on the ballot.

I can’t wait for the HDOH to declare Bennett a “vexatious requestor” who they thus don’t have to answer. lol. With any luck, the HDOH will thoroughly piss him off, just by being the jerks we all already know them to be. lol


69 posted on 05/19/2012 10:04:49 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
Fuddy would HAVE to know that what Obama presented was not what she sent because the original birth certificate would have to be stamped with “LATE” and/or “ALTERED” on the face of it so that it would show up on any copy made.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, is that why the White House had to Photoshopp the document, to remove the over-stamp?

70 posted on 05/19/2012 10:15:37 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1215 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: Las Vegas Dave
"... widely discredited long-running allegations that he was not born in the United States."

"Discredited"? Only in the sense that the MSM continually repeats this Øbozo lie...

71 posted on 05/19/2012 10:18:07 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Elderberry

Actually, Hawaii has never officially verified that Obama was born there. When pressed for the records that supported former-HDOH Director Fukino’s July 2009 statement that she had seen the “vital recordS verifying that Obama was born in Hawaii”, Deputy AG Jill Nagamine responded that it was known that Obama was born in HI because his name is in the birth index. IOW, Nagamine is claiming that Fukino’s statement came from looking at the birth index.

But I have documented on my blog that the 1960-64 birth index that the HDOH shows the public has been altered to include legally non-valid records.

And the DATABASE is also known to have been altered by the HDOH because even though Virginia Sunahara’s name is listed in the birth index and her COLB has been disclosed to her brother, when I asked an HDOH employee for a non-certified copy of Virginia’s abbreviated BC, she queried the database and found no birth record for Virginia Sunahara. We know she had a birth record because it was later disclosed, but at that point in time, that birth record (with that BC#) was not under Virginia’s name. It was under somebody else’s name.

Normally requests associated with Obama were sent to Janice Okubo and she always gave the standard (BS) answer that I was not authorized to receive a non-certified COLB, death certificate, or whatever I was asking for. That’s why it surprised me when I got the response saying that there were no records responsive to my request for Virginia’s non-certified COLB.

Later on, I called the HDOH office to find out what had happened to my money order and request for the 1961 birth index the HDOH had told me I could get for $98.75. The secretary couldn’t find any record of my request even though I had received an e-mail in response to it already. All of a sudden she asked me if the request had to do with Obama. I asked if that would make any difference. She said yeah, that all requests about Obama were supposed to go to Janice Okubo. Everything else goes to the “fulfillment department” to be processed according to standard protocols.

So what happened is this: All my other requests for non-certified abbreviated vital records were clearly related to Obama (SAD, Madelyn Dunham, Obama, etc) so they went to Okubo who gave me the BS denial.

Okubo was afraid to tell the lower-level staffers that Virginia Sunahara is actually Obama, so when my request for VS’s record came in it went to the fulfillment office instead of being routed to Janice Okubo to be obfuscated. So this is the only request related to Obama that went to somebody besides Janice Okubo. If it had been sent to Okubo she would have said I was not authorized to receive what I had requested, like she did with all the other requests. The fact that I got a different response confirms that this request never went to Janice Okubo like the others.

According to the OIP the first step in the normal protocols is always to check to see whether the record even exists. So that’s what the secretary did; she checked the birth database for Virginia Sunahara. I had asked for the record for either Virginia Sunahara or Tomiyo Sunahara so she would have queried the name of Sunahara for both of those records. That’s double-checking. And she found nothing there. So she sent me a response saying there wasn’t a record responsive to my request.

IOW, the HDOH changed Virginia Sunahara’s record in the birth database to somebody else’s name. And they got caught because they didn’t tell their lowly secretary that any request regarding Virginia Sunahara was actually about Obama, so she processed the request honestly instead of sending it to Okubo to have her lie and obfuscate.


72 posted on 05/19/2012 10:23:29 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: null and void

That, and probably to alter some of the data also. For instance, there was probably no doctor’s signature as it was probably reported as a home birth.

See, we know from all the messing with Virginia Sunahara’s records (see the last post I just posted for more explanation on that) that Obama doesn’t have a BC# that works for the claim that he had a valid BC# from 1961. So his BC HAS to be late, and at that point it wouldn’t work to have a doctor’s signature on the actual BC. There would HAVE to be supporting affidavits to support a late BC.

So we know that the BC# had to be altered, the notes about the supporting documentation had to be altered, the doctor’s signature had to be added....

They had to change just about everything.


73 posted on 05/19/2012 10:32:03 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
I do not understand your sudden "spacing" problem. All you have to do on FR is to type (or paste) the HTML "tag",

"<P>" or "<p>"

(-- without the " " --)

(AKA "CRLF" [Carriage Return Line Feed]) anyplace you want a "paragraph break" (blank line).

~~~~~~~~~

But - I'm sure you have been posting here on FR long enough to already know that -- so I really don't understand your problem...

74 posted on 05/19/2012 10:50:33 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Uncle Sham
Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Back once again as to "WHO" and "WHEN" of my first post. I don't see this happening in the Congress that convened in Jan 2009 or Jan 2011. IMHO I do not see how the citizens of the USA have any input other than to throw out the entire CONGRESS. Good luck there.

Might have started by electing a different GOP 2010 House leadership team - they wouldn't touch ZERO's eligibility. In 2009 the COMMIES owned the WH and THE CONGRESS.
75 posted on 05/19/2012 10:55:36 AM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Uncle Sham; butterdezillion

Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dear Uncle Sham - and for your engaging insightful essay-post, dear butterdezillion!


76 posted on 05/19/2012 10:56:05 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: TXnMA
I've been told the HTML stuff but it doesn't stick in my brain. In the past I've just C&P'ed from my blog and everything has been fine so I don't know what's different this time either. So if I just put

it will insert a line? (I guess I'll see when this posts) If so I'll re-post that in non-garbled fashion. Thanks!

77 posted on 05/19/2012 11:05:28 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
From what I read in an LA Times article, AZ SOS Bennett copied an application form off the internet and sent it in with $5. The HDOH responded by saying he needed to prove he was authorized to request/receive a verification. I would presume that Bennett responded by showing that he is the AZ SOS and has discretion to require canddates to convince him of their eligibility. If he’s done that and it’s been more than 10 business days since he’s heard from them, they could be stalling (par for the course in my experience) and the OIP will have to be involved to force a response out of them. They have to either deny or comply with his request. If they deny his request they have to give a legal reason.

Thing is, if his BC was amended in 2006 as the HDOH admitted, and if there are supporting affidavits as OIP Director Tsukiyama admitted (which would only be necessary for amended and/or late BC’s), then the birth record they have for Obama is not probative/legally valid and HRS 338-13 says that the probative value must be determined when it is presented as evidence to a judicial or administrative person or body. IOW, the State of HI on its own does not vouch for the accuracy of any of the claims on an altered or late BC. If Obama’s is late and/or amended (as is indicated by HDOH and OIP UIPA responses AND by their need to alter the 1960-64 birth index to include legally non-valid names in order to get both Obama’s and Virginia Sunhara’s names on the list at the same time) then Hawaii CANNOT verify any birth facts for Obama. Their law forbids it. The only way there can be any legally-recognized birth facts for Obama based on what is in HI is if Obama actually presents that BC (complete with “ALTERED” stamp on it and notes about what proof was submitted to support the amendment) to a judicial or administrative person or body, who then have to follow the rules of evidence according to legal protocols.

If the HDOH ever DOES verify birth facts for Obama, then they have made conflicting public statements regarding Obama’s records, and Bennett would have to figure out which statement was accurate. That could only be done through an audit of the records, as recommended by a HHS inspector general’s report anyway (see http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf ) That report says that a birth certificate alone should not be used to determine eligibility, especially when much is at stake – for instance, a passport (which was the example they used, contrasting documentation necessary for Little Leage versus getting a passport). And it says that if there are signs that there could be a forgery (such as a vague or too-light “seal” such as was the case on the photo that Savannah Guthrie posted online) other proofs should be requred and the records audited.

That poses a problem for Obama because EVERY “proof” known to exist for him shows signs of tampering:

1. Both the COLB and long-form show signs of forgery (the COLB has a “seal” that doesn’t bend with the fold of the page it’s supposedly on; the electronic file had authenticating marks that could be moved around on the page – clearly C&P’ed from a different document than the rest of the image was taken from; and Savannah Guthrie’s photo has just the kind of indistinct and light “seal” that the OIG report refers to as being too fishy) and conflict with what the HDOH has revealed through UIPA responses.

2. The draft registration is the only one from that post office at that time that lacks the first 2 digits of the 4-digt year stamp.

3. The SSN he used on his tax returns fails e-verify and was issued from Connecticut where Obama never lived.

4. His passport file has been breached 3 times, and sources close to the investigation told Newsmax that the purpose was to sanitize the record. And the one who oversaw the breaches was rewarded with a position as Chief of National Security.

ALL the records are suspect, and for any one of them to be used to determine eligility – according to the OIG recommendations – there would have to be a complete audit to figure out exact;u how and when that record really originated.

No matter how you slice it, Bennett is going to have to demand an audit before he can be sure of anything. There will be immense pressure on him to just bypass that step. We need to pray for him.

Something that may make the HDOH a bit hesitant to illegally “verify” Obama’s birth facts is the realization that if Obama is defeated in the election, we may have an Attorney General who DOESN’T shield all the crooks from federal investigation and prosecution, and at that point an earnest US Attorney in AZ would have everything he needs to throw every complicit person in HI in jail for a very, very long time.

Anything we can do to make it apparent to the HDOH that Eric Holder will not be able to stall justice forever…. will help “convince” Loretta Fuddy to do the right thing, for once in her life. If she does, she will respond to Bennett by saying that she CANNOT verify Obama’s birth facts. At that point Bennett will have what he needs to keep Obama off the ballot.

What we can do right now to help Bennett is to pray for him and to pressure our Congress-critters to hold Eric Holder’s feet to the fire AND to impeach him. Because Eric Holder is the lynchpin for this whole lawless mess we’re in. He’s the placeholder making sure that the feds will protect the crooks rather than prosecute them. If he is taken out of his position the whole lawless dam bursts and the crooks will have to fight to be the first person to turn so they can plea bargain for immunity or a lower charge in return for the goods on everybody else.

78 posted on 05/19/2012 11:10:15 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: null and void
Re: #66

Good points. It looks like the old adage, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing" is true. Held hostage by cowards and thugs is what will lead to America turning into another Greece and as is always the case it will be because everyone is trying to save their own skin.

Sad isn't it? What's worse is when people fall into that hopeless mode of self preservation all that ends up happening is they simply prolong the inevitable were as in putting up a fight might save everyone.

But then what do I know? I stopped trying to cover my own ass when I received Jesus Christ and His free gift of eternal life.

Thanks for sharing. I do empathize with Rush and remember thinking about those incidents you mentioned. I wondered if his position of America's mouthpiece would be compromised by those events and quite honestly I can say that yes... They have been. When is America going to start to fight back? IS America going to fight back?

I personally don't think so. The water's almost to a boiling point. America's life is almost gone and no one seems willing to fight to save her.

79 posted on 05/19/2012 11:10:35 AM PDT by Whats-wrong-with-the-truth (Romney (aka - obomney)... Just put the (D) behind your name and be done with it.)
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To: butterdezillion
For example, either

~~~~~~~~~
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party. <P> ...but I'm pretty sure the GOP is beyond aid at this point...
~~~~~~~~~

--or--

~~~~~~~~~
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party.
<P>
...but I'm pretty sure the GOP is beyond aid at this point...
~~~~~~~~~

-produces-

~~~~~~~~~
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party.

...but I'm pretty sure the GOP is beyond aid at this point...
~~~~~~~~~


You should be able to figure out how to use "global search and replace" (AKA "Replace All") in Word on a copy of your spaced original to do the above without having to do it one line break at a time...

If this doesn't solve your problem, FReepMail me...

80 posted on 05/19/2012 11:11:48 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TXnMA

Much, much better. Thanks for your help! =)


81 posted on 05/19/2012 11:12:04 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
My pleasure!!! :-)

Besides -- I know you are "one of the good folks" -- and I very much want you to succeed!!!!!

82 posted on 05/19/2012 11:16:03 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Whats-wrong-with-the-truth
IS America going to fight back?

Yes, we will.

83 posted on 05/19/2012 11:17:06 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1215 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: Las Vegas Dave
Arizona, one of the Several States, is asking Hawaii, another of the Several States, to provide the birth records of Obama so that Arizan can confirm his eligibility to be on their ballot.

Hawaii is challenging Arizona to prove that it needs that information.

Is Hawaii suggesting that Arizona does not havethe Constitutional right to govern its own election proceedings?

That's madness. That's like asking a state to prove its own right to sovereignty.

I took another look at the "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution.

Article IV Section 1 Clause 1:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.

Hawaii cannot ask Arizona to prove its need to see the documents. Full faith and credit requires Hawaii to comply.

It's the second sentence that intrigues me.

And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

If I'm reading this right, Congress could in effect define Natural Born Citizen itself by establishing the documents that it accepts as proof of qualifying for President.

This could get interesting.

Congress could pass a law that says that candidates for President must provide proof of natural-born citizenship. Such proof will consist of all of the following:

1. The candidates original hospital long-form birth certificate.
2. Each parent's original hospital long-form birth certificate, OR, US Naturalization certificate.

That should pass Constitutional muster unless someone challenges the need for the parents' documents. If that happens, the requirement for the candidate's birth document would remain.

Congress can fix this without the Court.

-PJ

84 posted on 05/19/2012 11:18:53 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: butterdezillion; Elderberry

I have to assume that Bennett will pursue this despite the delay and obfuscation from Hawaii’s record’s department. Bennet knows he is playing with fire and knew ahead of time that Hawaii would not comply in an honest straightforward way. So on to round two now.....I am hoping this escalates to were Obama is not allowed on the Arizona ballot and the ObamaTrons try to make it a racial thing. This will blow up in their faces


85 posted on 05/19/2012 11:21:22 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: butterdezillion
I don't want to give them any ideas, but could HI respond to Bennett with:

"Obama has not been nominated [yet], so you have no cause to put him on the AZ ballot (much less to deny him a place there). For that reason, your request is denied."

To cover that base, if I were Bennett, I would have a full (repeat) set of requests waiting in HI to hand to (serve upon) the HI officials the minute Øbozo is declared the nominee by the DNC...

86 posted on 05/19/2012 11:53:22 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Uncle Sham
Since there is no birth certificate in existence, this request is actually the perfect approach. Someone in the state of Hawaii would have to risk being charged with misprision of treason if they can be proven a liar about this.

Always when it comes time to put up, Hawaii shovels BS - but no one in Hawaii up to this point is willing to put it totally on the line for Obama.

87 posted on 05/19/2012 12:48:34 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: TXnMA

They could do that, but any delay they do now is only going to make it less likely for Obama to be on the ballot. If an audit ends up being required it will take time - more time than there is between the DNC Convention and Nov 8th.

In addition, what Bennett is doing actually benefits Arizona democrats, because it protects their ability to choose an ELIGIBLE candidate with their delegates to the Dem Convention. If Bennett was just being a political hack he would have left this to the last minute and then denied placement on the ballot. As it is, he is letting the DNC know that if their candidate is not able to prove his eligibility he’s not going to be on the ballot. Bennett is providing a service to the dems by letting this be known now. The DNC is officially on notice that their OCON and an affidavit from Obama are not going to be enough...


88 posted on 05/19/2012 12:53:47 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

Good job.


89 posted on 05/19/2012 1:01:26 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: butterdezillion
Thanks; I see your point. However, they are already delaying by claiming that Bennett 'lacks standing'. IMHO, there is nothing they can do that would positively help Øbozo...

You are doing a FRoutstanding job!!! Wish I could do more to help...

90 posted on 05/19/2012 1:11:49 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: butterdezillion
Loretta Fuddy to do the right thing, for once in her life. If she does, she will respond to Bennett by saying that she CANNOT verify Obama’s birth facts. At that point Bennett will have what he needs to keep Obama off the ballot.

And the Obama house of cards comes tumbling down.

91 posted on 05/19/2012 1:17:26 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: justiceseeker93

The SOS could have already requested from all parties and not received the Presidents. He could have received Mitts so it is not an issue or bias, simply requesting doc’s from both parties and not getting one.


92 posted on 05/19/2012 1:57:57 PM PDT by edcoil (It is not over until I win.)
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To: Las Vegas Dave
have given up pushing widely discredited long-running allegations that he was not born in the United States.

What evidence has been provided by anyone to discredit the allegations?

5.56mm

93 posted on 05/19/2012 2:03:04 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: traditional1

All the reasons you state are good arguments for why candidates need to be “pre-vetted” when asking to be included on a state ballot.

I think a single congressman could have challenged the electoral college results but by then booting our second black president out was unimaginable. Sigh.

At this stage of the game I cannot imagine SCOTUS actually declaring Obama ineligible for the upcoming election much less requiring a “do-over” from 2008.

The problems you note, including rioting in the streets nationwide, would force the court to punt. We’ll have to beat him at the ballot box.


94 posted on 05/19/2012 2:16:50 PM PDT by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: M Kehoe

Amazing how similar that sounds to all the bleating about the Swiftboat Vets claims being “discredited” with no proof. Just say it and it is so!


95 posted on 05/19/2012 2:18:49 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Whats-wrong-with-the-truth
And to have the nerve to ask why "most Americans" have never heard about obomba's drug use, homosexuality, place of birth, etc. is outrageous. Rush... like all the main stream press has either completely ignored all the evidence and refused to vet obomba or treated those that have been vetting and exposing obomba like citizens of Roswell in 1948.

I will never forget a conversation I was having a couple of days after the 08 election... was talking to someone at work about the birth certificate thing. Another co-worker overheard us and came over to ask what we were talking about. When the other guy told her, she scoffed. "Oh please, that is ridiculous." Why is it ridiculous? "Because... of course they would have checked his birth certificate and background. The CIA would have done it. It's ludicrous to think they wouldn't have checked him out."

So there you have it. Most everyone I have spoken to just assumes that he was background-checked.

96 posted on 05/19/2012 2:59:51 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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Comment #97 Removed by Moderator





Star Trek 2012:


"Deem it so!"




98 posted on 05/19/2012 3:53:30 PM PDT by devolve (------ ---- ---------toss_subhumans_in_Hannibal*s_wild_boar_pit----------- ---------------------)
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To: Brown Deer; All
Has [Mitt Romney's] birth in Michigan ever been questioned? and how do we know this hasn't been verified.

In so far as we are aware, no one has ever questioned Romney's birth in Michigan, nor is there any evidence to suggest that he wasn't born there as claimed. If would seem like a waste of effort for a political opponent to go to any great lengths to verify his birth in the state, because it's nearly a certainty.

And as for Romney himself at this point in the presidential campaign, he would be reluctant to display his birth certificate publicly, simply because opponents would accuse him of playing up the "birther" issue against Obama if he did so.

99 posted on 05/19/2012 5:40:32 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Flycatcher

Will this SOS of AZ have the balls to actually strike Obama from the ballot if he gets no official statement from HI ? Doubtful, IMHO.

What is the AZ law regarding write-in candidates ?

If write-ins are allowed and require manual counting of all ballots, you just know some Dem in AZ is going to say the SOS is just causing unnecessary additional election expenses for which there is no funding. Obviously, anyone who wants to vote for Obama is just going to write-in his name rather than vote for one of the other candidates already printed on the ballot.


100 posted on 05/19/2012 8:12:11 PM PDT by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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