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The teachers union that's failing California
Los Angeles Times ^ | May 18, 2012 | OP-ED

Posted on 05/19/2012 7:11:47 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

California's education tailspin has been blamed on class sizes, on the property tax restrictions enforced by Proposition 13, on an influx of Spanish-speaking students. But no portrait of the schools' downfall would be complete without mention of the California Teachers Assn., or CTA, arguably the state's most powerful union and a political behemoth that has blocked meaningful education reform, protected failing and even criminal educators, and pushed for pay raises and benefits that have reached unsustainable levels.

The CTA's power dates back to September 1975, when Gov. Jerry Brown signed the Rodda Act, which allowed teachers to bargain collectively. Within 18 months, 600 of the 1,000 local CTA chapters had moved to collective bargaining. In the years since Rodda's passage, the CTA has launched more than 170 strikes.

The CTA's most important resource, however, isn't a pool of workers ready to strike; it's a fat bank account fed by mandatory dues that can run to more than $1,000 per member. In 2009, the union's income was more than $186 million, all of it tax exempt.

The CTA's size, financial resources and influence with the state's Democratic Party are enough to kill most pieces of hostile legislation. Nevertheless, there are some encouraging stirrings. Parents in groups such as Parent Revolution are starting to revolt against CTA orthodoxy, and unlike elected officials, parents are hard for the union to demonize. The state's many excellent charter schools have demonstrated that another way is possible, and they are growing in strength by the day.

These efforts have reframed the education question in starkly humanitarian terms: In the California public school system, are anyone's interests more important than the students'? It was a question that the CTA itself might have asked back when teachers entered the classroom to "teach good citizenship."

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: failure; socialism; teachers; unions
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Troy Senik is a senior fellow at the Center for Individual Freedom and an editor at Ricochet.com. This piece was adapted from the spring issue of City Journal.
1 posted on 05/19/2012 7:11:55 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer; EggsAckley
In my CA town they're pushing for another parcel tax "for the children."

More like, "for the teachers' pensions."

2 posted on 05/19/2012 7:17:33 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The California education system is just fine. Teachers are okay and so are the administrators, curricula, facilities and so on.

The problem? The state has to educate all comers. Private schools can pick and choose; public schools have to take EVERYONE. That means the system has to TRY to educate the LOWEST I.Q. and the WORST behavioral problems. Failure is part of human nature and the educational system has to deal with failure-students...and worse, failure parents.

I could list all the stupidities of the PARENTS and you might, as I did, end up feeling sorry for the poor kids with their screw-up parents.

Nothing new, different or unusual in the California educational system. It's just HUGE because we have so many damn people. I grew up here when the population of the state was a 'mere' 10 million. Now, we are BUSTIN' at the seams with close to 40 million. FOUR times more people!!

YIKES!!

3 posted on 05/19/2012 7:32:28 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
The California education system is just fine.

By what measure is it "just fine"?

The only thing it appears to be be undeniably successful at is funding the teacher's unions.

4 posted on 05/19/2012 7:43:14 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
California's education tailspin has been blamed on class sizes, on the property tax restrictions enforced by Proposition 13

I disagree. It is the excessive spending that is the cause of the trouble! Brought on by the Unions, illegals, etc.

5 posted on 05/19/2012 7:46:51 AM PDT by Sen Jack S. Fogbound (We have met the enemy and they is us!)
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To: cloudmountain
Class size has constantly shrunk in every district I can find information for. As that is the only basic that makes a difference at classroom level, the whole argument that teachers can be excused for the failure of students due to the number being taught goes out the window.

The failure is multifold - I won't blame JUST the teachers; there is plenty of blame to go towards cocktail bureaucrats who have inserted ‘gay education’, ‘minority history’ and ‘green education’ into the curriculum. But at the end of the day, far fewer students are leaving primary school with the tools needed to complete their education. And that is mostly upon teachers who have far more concern about pay raises and more benefits.

Beyond, the ‘average’ of $68,000 quoted salary ignores the nearly equal cost of benefits - vacations, health care, pensions, tuition assistance, student loan repayments, etc. If the teachers had their salaries slashed in half tomorrow, the benefits cost wouldn't go down and they'd still be earning an equivalent of a hundred grand a year.

The focus must be on reigning in the existing costs of benefits, as well as stepping down the salaries. And honestly, the only way to do this is to put transparency back into the system - everything goes into the paycheck, with the educator able to purchase pension benefits, health care, loan repayments, etc out of pocket. And of course, all of it taxable, just like any average citizen has to do if they were in business for themselves.

6 posted on 05/19/2012 8:06:57 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Just part of THE BIG DEMOCRAT MONEY-MAKING MACHINE!


7 posted on 05/19/2012 8:15:24 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

California public education isn’t just fine. Spend an hour interacting with a public educated 4th graders and a home schooled 4th graders and you will see what I mean. I would never allow my child to be educated in a California public school today, although I did 30 years ago and I was educated in California public schools myself.


8 posted on 05/19/2012 8:32:16 AM PDT by Reddon
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
What has never happened in the past 20 years is a real discussion of education reform. And that discussion will never get off the ground until the core belief is challenged: that of ‘every student is equal.’

Any student who is unable to participate fully in an ‘average’ classroom setting, due to special needs from a physical or mental handicap should be given a grant to handle their educational needs. Hire a private tutor with it, go to a special private school - whatever, but here's your money, you're not going into the public educational system.

And any federal intervention into this should be ignored. ‘Thank you for your opinion, judge, but we've got this covered.’ This is not for creating a separate but equal system, because the demands of one can not outweigh the rights of the many.

And it should extend to troublemakers as well - congratulations on your gang affiliation, here's your new boot camp school. You speak Spanish (Tagalog, Swahili, etc)? Your class meets at this building.

The costs of creating these specialized campuses will quickly balance out in the vast reduction in costs for the various school campuses which must be designed to accommodate virtually any possible student. Yes, your child has (and I disagree) a right to an education. That right shall not interfere with the rights of others. If your child can't climb steps, sit still for an hour, go a day without hitting someone - then they go to a different school, or get home schooled, etc.

In my district alone, over 75 million has been spent on 13 schools to comply with ADA regulations and accommodating special needs students. The yearly budget JUST for maintaining these improvements is well over a million a year. And it does nothing to improve educational conditions.

Moreover, by creating ‘discipline’ schools, a layer of control gets put into schools. Get into trouble, get sent to the special school for a week or two, then decide if you like the place better, or if you want to actually stay on the straight and narrow and actually get an education.

In a more perfect world, I'd love to see actions reviewable by a parents council. Send a kid to the discipline school for daring to wear a US flag shirt on Cinco de Mayo? The person who made that decision can be immediately terminated. But unfortunately, the terrible truth is that most parent boards are dominated by the most liberal of parents, as they, by definition, love to tell others what to do, and are most attracted to power.

As I said in my previous post, change all benefits to be solely originated by the employee - bump up the paychecks and say ‘buy what pension and health care and benefits as you desire. Want vacation days? They cost us X amount of dollars, buy as many as you'd like. Want your tuition repaid? It's in your hands what you do with the money. Oh, and you get to pay the taxes on it, just like everyone else does.’

And of course, no reform can be complete without removing tenure. You're an at will employee of the people. You want really fancy review boards and whatnot? Then go get a job in the private sector that provides it. Will some be harmed by this system? Sure. But it will remove a great more harm from the students, and at the end of the day, that's where the goal is supposed to be oriented.

9 posted on 05/19/2012 8:41:10 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: cloudmountain
The California education system is just fine. Teachers are okay and so are the administrators, curricula, facilities and so on.

Completely wrong. A system can't be fixed if the problem isn't even recognized. The current model is FUBR. The best thing that can be done is trash the whole system and switch to an online model. No need for expensive facilities, buses, unions, administrators, etc. The old model is obsolete and unsustainable and exists only for the benefit of unions and bureaucrats.

10 posted on 05/19/2012 8:52:03 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: kingu

Bravo!


11 posted on 05/19/2012 8:56:57 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

All unions lead to failure. Teacher union , nursing union, police union , auto union and building trade unions can’t compete against a motivated, performance paid work force.


12 posted on 05/19/2012 9:08:26 AM PDT by pterional
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The state's many excellent charter schools have demonstrated that another way is possible, and they are growing in strength by the day.

Given the stanglehold the Left has on the state and the strength of the union, the only glimmer of hope is to circumvent the public school systems altogether and let the unions die on the vine. Only problem is, there is likely not enough time left for that to happen.

13 posted on 05/19/2012 9:55:29 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: cloudmountain
Don't be ridiculous. Every state has poor kids, low IQ kids, screwy parents, and behavior problems. But not every state gets ranked 46th, just above Mississippi, Alabama and DC, like CA just did.
14 posted on 05/19/2012 9:59:29 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The teachers union that's failing California

In all fairness, California is not the only State with the problem; it's just among the largest.
The National Teachers Union must be the first to go.
Public "Service" Unions and the bureaucracy are the only entiries in the universe not rewarded for performance.
The practice of accepting contracts with yearly increases just for being warm with a pulse, are over. All people are equal, but union thugs are no longer "more equal" than their employers. Starting with the local city government, districts, and moving on up.

"Angry" doesn't begin to describe it.

15 posted on 05/19/2012 2:48:02 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("It's easy to make promises you can't keep" - B.H.Obama Feb 23, 2012)
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To: martin_fierro
In my CA town they're pushing for another parcel tax "for the children."
More like, "for the teachers' pensions."

Same in most cities and towns in the California Central Valley.
The only rational vote is "NO" on everything, until the moron State legislature discovers "cutting spending."

16 posted on 05/19/2012 2:50:54 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("It's easy to make promises you can't keep" - B.H.Obama Feb 23, 2012)
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To: cloudmountain
No.
By whatever reasons you conjure up THE CALIFORNIA EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS NOT FINE!

I'm no longer buying excuses. The only criterion is results. If the educational system demands baby sitting and nothing else, all teacher and administrator salaries should be minimum wage.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

17 posted on 05/19/2012 2:55:14 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("It's easy to make promises you can't keep" - B.H.Obama Feb 23, 2012)
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To: Publius6961
No. By whatever reasons you conjure up THE CALIFORNIA EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS NOT FINE! I'm no longer buying excuses. The only criterion is results. If the educational system demands baby sitting and nothing else, all teacher and administrator salaries should be minimum wage. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Lol. You sound like me 30 years ago...exactly.
Continue to rant and rave, excusing no one for anything.

Then, check back in 10 years, see more of the world and see if you still bellyache (not a bad thing, P.) about how horrible the California school system is.

I can't get over how EXACTLY you sound like I did 30 years ago...part of the solution or part of the problem! NO EXCUSES!!!!! JUST BABYSITTING. Ah me.

Generally, the school is only as good as the students and parents. But, then what do I know? I've only been teaching in the California school systems for 43 years--ALL levels...and I've seen most of the world and even some of ITS schools.

18 posted on 05/19/2012 5:19:10 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: paul51; hinckley buzzard; kingu
See my response at #18.
Thank you.
19 posted on 05/19/2012 5:27:01 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

“But, then what do I know? I’ve only been teaching in the California school systems for 43 years...”

How did I know that was coming...


20 posted on 05/19/2012 5:32:04 PM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: PLMerite
How did I know that was coming...

Why would I go on about the state educational system without having a lot of knowledge of it? It sounds stupid to flap my gums about the system unless I HAD the experience, doesn't it?

It ain't perfect but then I DIDN'T say that the system was perfect. It's ISN'T better than private schools but then private schools can pick and choose and eliminate by money. The California system is STUCK with every child, rich, poor, stupid, smart, obnoxious, decent, retarded, etc. If it WEREN'T stuck with everyone, think how even BETTER it could be.

21 posted on 05/19/2012 5:42:46 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: tacticalogic
1. By what measure is it "just fine"?
2. The only thing it appears to be be undeniably successful at is funding the teacher's unions.

1. "Just fine" is above horrible and below really good. It's an acceptable measure of education, considering the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of students the system HAS to take.

2. I'm with you there.

22 posted on 05/19/2012 5:54:03 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
Generally, the school is only as good as the students and parents. But, then what do I know? I've only been teaching in the California school systems for 43 years--ALL levels...and I've seen most of the world and even some of ITS schools.

Teaching in California for 43 years AND seen most of the world.
You have my boundless admiration. That's AWESOME!

I raised three kids starting in 1960.
I worked in private industry 47 years.
I have not seen every country in the world, but a dozen countries on three continents (extensively; families there) is my modest achievement.
AND, I was ranting 30 years ago too, because all my children had been educated and I was still paying for an education system that that produces functional illiterates and ranks California what? 26th in the U.S.A.?

My main point is that the teacher's union approach to the problem is so long as they get twice what the job should be worth, they can put up with the hell of schools, so long as they also get special perks, tenure, andunconscionable retirement benefits. The problem starts there.

Just for grins... has any teachers union gone on a protracted strike to protest the leadership of the educational system, and the impossibility of teaching under those conditions? Even ONE? Anywhere?

Thought not.

23 posted on 05/19/2012 6:24:54 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("It's easy to make promises you can't keep" - B.H.Obama Feb 23, 2012)
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To: tacticalogic

Also, I am NOT in my teacher’s union. NO ONE says a word to me because I have my “ammo” for them.


24 posted on 05/19/2012 6:38:08 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

Time to pull your head out of the sand...or wherever it’s stuck.


25 posted on 05/19/2012 6:45:06 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: cloudmountain
Of course...you're a "teacher"..and you know more than anyone on this board.

Dumb us.....

26 posted on 05/19/2012 6:50:48 PM PDT by Osage Orange (God is my Co-Pilot.)
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To: cloudmountain
It ain't perfect but then I DIDN'T say that the system was perfect. It's ISN'T better than private schools but then private schools can pick and choose and eliminate by money. The California system is STUCK with every child, rich, poor, stupid, smart, obnoxious, decent, retarded, etc. If it WEREN'T stuck with everyone, think how even BETTER it could be.

You may or may not be in any "teacher" union...but you have the same sound bites.

27 posted on 05/19/2012 6:53:52 PM PDT by Osage Orange (God is my Co-Pilot.)
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To: cloudmountain
...The California system is STUCK with every child, rich, poor, stupid, smart, obnoxious, decent, retarded, etc. ...

Not true. There are non-public schools that the students who the public schools can't educate or manage can be sent to. I know - I teach at one.

28 posted on 05/19/2012 7:00:04 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$ or PETA.)
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To: Publius6961
Teaching in California for 43 years AND seen most of the world. You have my boundless admiration. That's AWESOME!
Well, the teaching was one of the few jobs that women could have way back then and still make a fairly decent salary. There were always rich/educated girls who became doctors, lawyers, etc., but I wasn't in that category. For my blue collar family teaching was a GOOD thing for a woman.
I (we) saw the world because my husband worked for ARAMCO; we lived in Saudi Arabia five years and saw the world. That was one of the reasons we went over there.

I raised three kids starting in 1960. I worked in private industry 47 years. I have not seen every country in the world, but a dozen countries on three continents (extensively; families there) is my modest achievement.
AND, I was ranting 30 years ago too, because all my children had been educated and I was still paying for an education system that that produces functional illiterates and ranks California what? 26th in the U.S.A.?

Well, California schools may stink to you but they don't to me. If they stank so much I wouldn't have stayed in the system so long. Functional illiterates aren't the fault of the schools, they are the fault of parents who
just don't give a damn,
are divorced and fighting over the kids,
are working so many hours that they just don't have the time for their own children,
think that giving their kids a cell phone is enough parenting,
don't have the time because they are single parents, and
are so darned spoiled themselves that it'll be a cold day in hell before THEY grow up.
I could add several more reasons, but you get my point.

My main point is that the teacher's union approach to the problem is so long as they get twice what the job should be worth, they can put up with the hell of schools, so long as they also get special perks, tenure, andunconscionable retirement benefits. The problem starts there.
I agree with you 100%. Spoiled teachers. They work 180 days a year and moan. My husband worked 254 days a year with ONE lousy week off. He NEVER complained. In ARAMCO he worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week. That was the job, take it or leave it.
I work even less than 180 days a school year and I never, never, never, never complain and BLESS the day I got this job and plan to keep it until I can't walk anymore.

Just for grins... has any teachers union gone on a protracted strike to protest the leadership of the educational system, and the impossibility of teaching under those conditions? Even ONE? Anywhere? Thought not.
As I wrote, I am NOT in my teacher's union. I abominate it but don't criticize. Why should I? I'm delighted with what I'm doing and those union folks can just do their own thing. I don't care. Nothing I say or do has ever changed anything in the system. I don't look for my two cents to do anything now either.
By the way, I agree with your last statement. Protest the leadership? Lol. They would be biting the hand that fed them.
CHOMP!!

29 posted on 05/19/2012 7:01:17 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: SCalGal
...The California system is STUCK with every child, rich, poor, stupid, smart, obnoxious, decent, retarded, etc. ...
Not true. There are non-public schools that the students who the public schools can't educate or manage can be sent to. I know - I teach at one.

The public schools THROW THEM OUT? I never heard of that in California. Expelling students is one thing public schools don't do too often. They rotate the students from one school to another but DUMP them from the public school system? Does the public sector therefore PAY for the private school, or as you say "non-public schools"?
Interesting...
If you are at a "non-public" school, then you are in a PRIVATE school. That is choice, isn't it? There aren't TOO many irreclaimable students in this world. They ARE children. Do the parents have any part of this or is it ALL the fault of the schools??

30 posted on 05/19/2012 7:08:00 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
I've only been teaching in the California school systems for 43 years

I guess that explains the hogwash

31 posted on 05/19/2012 7:09:58 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Osage Orange
You may or may not be in any "teacher" union...but you have the same sound bites.

You, of course, also have the long experience of a teacher and speak from your own experience in the system.
YOU have the sound bite of someone who ... oh, never mind.

32 posted on 05/19/2012 7:10:45 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
The public schools THROW THEM OUT? I never heard of that in California.

YES. They don't like to, because the district has to pay for it.

It's called a non-public school because it's not the same as a private school. We're at the other end. It's NOT a choice, except for some parents who are so fed up with the ineptitude of the public schools AND who somehow manage to find out that we exist AND jump through the district hurdles to get their child here.

You can't handle 'em? Send 'em to me. I can.

Oh, and we don't have a union either.

33 posted on 05/19/2012 7:12:24 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$ or PETA.)
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To: paul51
I've only been teaching in the California school systems for 43 years...
I guess that explains the hogwash

Hogwash: usually people insult others with what bothers them the most about themselves.

34 posted on 05/19/2012 7:15:02 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
1. "Just fine" is above horrible and below really good. It's an acceptable measure of education, considering the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of students the system HAS to take.

So anything above "horrible" is "just fine"? No wonder it a freaking mess.

35 posted on 05/19/2012 7:15:48 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: SCalGal
YES. They don't like to, because the district has to pay for it.
It's called a non-public school because it's not the same as a private school. We're at the other end. It's NOT a choice, except for some parents who are so fed up with the ineptitude of the public schools AND who somehow manage to find out that we exist AND jump through the district hurdles to get their child here.
You can't handle 'em? Send 'em to me. I can.
Oh, and we don't have a union either.

You're the real heroine here.

I haven't been in our teacher's union for 35 years. Got fed up with them a long time ago.

Too bad the parents associations don't get on those inept teachers. It IS the ineptitude of the individual instructors who turn off the kids.

36 posted on 05/19/2012 7:19:08 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: tacticalogic
So anything above "horrible" is "just fine"? No wonder it a freaking mess.

Well, I know what YOU do for a living....you are on the stage as a drama king.
Please, put things in perspective and grow up. You know darn well what I meant, drama-prince.

Excuse me if you are female.

37 posted on 05/19/2012 7:22:03 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
Too bad the parents associations don't get on those inept teachers. It IS the ineptitude of the individual instructors who turn off the kids.

Parents have FAR more power than they realize. It takes some time to fight with the school and district, but it CAN be done.

Non-public schools are where the "expelled" students go - they don't just disappear into a vacume; the law requires that they go somewhere.

And I'll tell you - it's a LOT of fun to teach history to a kid who's every answer is to shout "NO" at the top of his lungs. No is a perfectly good answer - now, tell me why.

We need more people in this country who can say "NO".

38 posted on 05/19/2012 7:25:09 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$ or PETA.)
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To: cloudmountain

God forbid the the people paying for it should be able to have any expectations about what they ought to be getting for their tax dollars. When you want their opinion, I guess you’ll give it to them, eh?


39 posted on 05/19/2012 7:29:24 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: cloudmountain
It's an acceptable measure of education, considering the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of students the system HAS to take.

If you can make a case that they have a higher student-to-teacher ratio than other states that produce better results, or that they spend substantially less per pupil then you have the basis for an argument. That there are millions of students is not, in and of itself, any basis to explain the problem.

Let's see you make that go away with insults.

40 posted on 05/19/2012 7:36:43 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: cloudmountain
I haven't been in our teacher's union for 35 years. Got fed up with them a long time ago.

Join it. Work your way up. Do a conservative takeover.... It's the only way we'll ever take our country back.

41 posted on 05/19/2012 8:20:32 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$ or PETA.)
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To: kingu

To kingu: Brilliant!


42 posted on 05/20/2012 5:48:15 PM PDT by Em and Brets Mum ("Lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel." - Proverbs 20:15)
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To: cloudmountain
I actually have taught...as an Clinical Instructor for a SoCal college. So I do have some experience.......

My kids were both HS'd K-12...That was started in SoCal...before finishing that up, here in OK.

Both my wife and I have college degree's. We might now be Okie's....but don't piss down our legs...and tell us it's raining, ok?

43 posted on 05/20/2012 7:32:43 PM PDT by Osage Orange (God is my Co-Pilot.)
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To: kingu; cloudmountain

So, cloudmountain....what say you to kingu’s post?


44 posted on 05/20/2012 7:39:01 PM PDT by Osage Orange (God is my Co-Pilot.)
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To: kingu

Sounds good to me.


45 posted on 05/21/2012 8:00:25 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Osage Orange
So, cloudmountain....what say you to kingu’s post?

Like I just wrote to him: Sounds good to me.

46 posted on 05/21/2012 8:02:27 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Osage Orange
I actually have taught...as an Clinical Instructor for a SoCal college. So I do have some experience....... My kids were both HS'd K-12...That was started in SoCal...before finishing that up, here in OK. Both my wife and I have college degree's. We might now be Okie's....but don't piss down our legs...and tell us it's raining, ok?

Hmm, I don't recall "pissing" on you, telling you it's raining; nor do I remember calling you an Okie? Besides, what's WRONG with being an Okie? One of my good friends is from Oklahoma and darned proud of it. Why would I deprecate that? Maybe YOU think I'm something I'm not...just a thought.

Glad your kids got their education. DELIGHTED that you are/were an instructor at SoCal college.

You don't have to scold me for something you THINK I said in the way of an insult. Ok?

47 posted on 05/21/2012 8:08:56 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: kingu
The focus must be on reigning in the existing costs of benefits, as well as stepping down the salaries. And honestly, the only way to do this is to put transparency back into the system - everything goes into the paycheck, with the educator able to purchase pension benefits, health care, loan repayments, etc out of pocket. And of course, all of it taxable, just like any average citizen has to do if they were in business for themselves.

That will happen....just as soon as the entire democratically controlled legislature flips to majority republican control.

Wait for it.

The whole purpose of the extra payroll bennies is to ...hide those bennies from the public who pays the freight. Signed into law in 1975 by...tada...gov moonbeam.

50.5% of every dollar, every single one, that is the annual Ca budget, goes to education. Each and every year, year after year.

That is one hell of a lot of money, for what Ca has to show for it.

Oh, and concerning class size? That was made of sheer cloth, sole purpose was to get more births available for teachers, to double the numbers of them, for union dues as well as voting block clout. had nothing to do with student learning improvement, as shown by the history of same.

48 posted on 05/21/2012 8:31:18 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: cloudmountain
Sarcasm eludes you.

And apparently...following a long isn't one of your strong points.

BTW, you still argue like a liberal union lackey.

You will have the last word.

49 posted on 05/21/2012 9:15:57 AM PDT by Osage Orange (God is my Co-Pilot.)
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To: Osage Orange
Sarcasm eludes you. And apparently...following a long isn't one of your strong points. BTW, you still argue like a liberal union lackey. You will have the last word.'\

Sarcasm? Is that what you call your effort? I see. I stand corrected.

People often insult with what THEY hate the most. I haven't been in the union for 35+ years. Seems to me that YOU have the problem with the unions. For me they've been outta sight and outta mind for a l-o-n-g time.
Apparently you seem to have a problem with reading/understanding simple declarative sentences.

50 posted on 05/21/2012 12:43:11 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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