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Romney's Faith, Silent but Deep
New York Times ^ | May 19, 2012 | Jodi Kantor

Posted on 05/20/2012 3:18:09 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

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This is a long article that shows in depth the influence that the mormon church has on Mitt Romney and the way he lives his life. It also indicates the influence the church may have on the paths he may take as POTUS.
1 posted on 05/20/2012 3:18:19 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: greyfoxx39

Mr. Romney’s penchant for rules mirrors that of his church, where he once excommunicated adulterers

I put that as a plus for Romney.


2 posted on 05/20/2012 3:20:59 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: greyfoxx39

his faith in What?


3 posted on 05/20/2012 3:21:21 PM PDT by Chong
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To: greyfoxx39

This country is so screwed.


4 posted on 05/20/2012 3:22:35 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: greyfoxx39

I had a weird dream about Romney last night. We were in a kitchen somewhere, I was trying to cook for some group and explained to him that we were not for sale at any price, so give it up now.

He then got whale-aggressive with me, in an actually scary way, and I saw that his ego and need to control was 5 or 10 times that of zero’s.

I never even think of the guy, why would I dream about him?


5 posted on 05/20/2012 3:23:56 PM PDT by txhurl (Thank you, Andrew Breitbart. In your untimely passing, you have exposed these people one last time.)
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To: freedomfiter2

Your posting history indicates you are a Mitt supporter. The NY Times isn’t worried about your opinion.


6 posted on 05/20/2012 3:26:15 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: freedomfiter2
where he once excommunicated adulterers

Hypocritical since the founder of Romney's religion was known as a booty chaser.

7 posted on 05/20/2012 3:26:32 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: txhurl
I never even think of the guy, why would I dream about him?

I imagine because he is one-half of our national nightmare.

8 posted on 05/20/2012 3:27:51 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Full headline...

“Romney’s Faith, Silent but Deep - and when the gods get together, it’s one busy place!”


9 posted on 05/20/2012 3:28:57 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: greyfoxx39

sometimes discouraged mothers from working outside the home.
________________________________________

Now isnt that interesting...

I presumed he helped pay the families bills out of his severely large largess...

Silly Nana...

He was just showing his muscle and controling the little woman and her family..

Thats what weak threatened men do...

Cant have women thinking for themselves...

While they might go all out and vote Conservative or something...


10 posted on 05/20/2012 3:31:15 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: freedomfiter2

So you have to be perfect to be accepted into your so called “church?” Hmmmmmmm...

Jesus said for anyone who is without sin to cast the first stone. Hmmmmmm


11 posted on 05/20/2012 3:31:15 PM PDT by Chong
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To: greyfoxx39
This could get really interesting.....


12 posted on 05/20/2012 3:31:44 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Ya think?


13 posted on 05/20/2012 3:33:00 PM PDT by Chong
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: greyfoxx39

how to apply Mormon gospel in the wider world —
_________________________________________

My pastor mentioned the billboards about their religious buildings the “Mormons” put up all over the country...

I was so proud of him...

No silly cojcotlds for him...

He was telling us about a ministry that is putting up billboards promoting the LORD Jesus Christ and Christianity...

He just come right out and said MORMONS...

Educated man...he knows the difference...

:)


15 posted on 05/20/2012 3:36:28 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: txhurl

Woke up thankfully before he got me.


Had you been drinking?

Seriously, I hope you have no more nightmares.


16 posted on 05/20/2012 3:42:36 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: freedomfiter2
The tool of excommunication is held over the heads of mormon members for "sins" besides adultery..such as speaking out against the church doctrine or leaders.

Mitt didn't "govern" with democracy in his mormon leadership positions...there IS no "democracy" in the mormon church, only unquestioned authority from the "Prophet" down.

Reasons for Excommunication

There are very few sins which mandate excommunication to begin the process of repentance. Gross iniquity can qualify a person for excommunication. "Gross iniquity" could include "murder, adultery, sexual perversion, or any serious offense against society that has resulted in conviction by the civil courts. A good example would be a major criminal charge."5 The practice of or advocacy of polygamy qualifies a person for excommunication from the Church. Apostasy can also result in excommunication. Apostasy is not inactivity in Church programs. A person who drifts away and becomes inactive is not apostate. Apostasy involves will-full rebellion, overt criticism of the Church, fighting against the Church.

MormonWiki.com

17 posted on 05/20/2012 3:44:55 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39

he once excommunicated adulterers
__________________________________

THe LORD Jesus Christ forgave adulterers..

Wonder what bishop Willie would do about the serial adulterers Joey Smith and Brigham Young ???


18 posted on 05/20/2012 3:45:50 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: greyfoxx39

The tool of excommunication is held over the heads of mormon members for “sins” besides adultery..such as speaking out against the church doctrine or leaders.
_______________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Some of us are being verbally excommunicated in these threads for “sins” ....such as speaking out against the dear leader bishop Willard Mitt Romney...


19 posted on 05/20/2012 3:49:25 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: unkus

Had I been drinking? Had you been breathing?

No, seriously, I no longer view him as a pansy weirdo anymore.
I view him as an actual threat.

I admit I hold out hope that Paul can wreck the convention on the first and second ballot, and if we have any brains left we’ll figure out a way to get Scott Walker in.

More dreaming, I know....


20 posted on 05/20/2012 3:49:25 PM PDT by txhurl (Thank you, Andrew Breitbart. In your untimely passing, you have exposed these people one last time.)
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To: greyfoxx39
the question that drove the Sunday school classes — how to apply Mormon gospel in the wider world — also drives Mr. Romney’s life.

He is not proselytizing but translating, they say — taking powerful ideas and lessons from the church and applying them in another realm.

Yep.

21 posted on 05/20/2012 3:50:40 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39
.

.

Obama's Faith, Silent but Deadly

.

.

22 posted on 05/20/2012 3:51:41 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (The best diplomat I know is a fully-activated phaser bank. - Montgomery Scott)
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To: svcw

taking powerful ideas and lessons from the church and applying them in another realm.
___________________________________________

Yep indeed...

That another realm must not be the White House...


23 posted on 05/20/2012 3:57:22 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: greyfoxx39

SBD


24 posted on 05/20/2012 3:57:47 PM PDT by AndrewB (FUBO)
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To: txhurl

I admit I hold out hope that Paul can wreck the convention on the first and second ballot,


Same here.


25 posted on 05/20/2012 3:59:08 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: greyfoxx39

“where he once excommunicated adulterers “

Good for him, I can respect him for that!


26 posted on 05/20/2012 3:59:46 PM PDT by blueyon (The U. S. Constitution - read it and weep)
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To: Tennessee Nana

“THe LORD Jesus Christ forgave adulterers..”

Yes Jesus forgives. Many are comfortable in their sins and do not repent because any thing goes. But we are not called to allow each other to be “comfortable” with sinning. Guess you have not read 1 Corinthians 5:12 “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”


27 posted on 05/20/2012 4:10:05 PM PDT by blueyon (The U. S. Constitution - read it and weep)
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To: greyfoxx39; All
From the article: In Mormonism, salvation depends in part on constantly making oneself purer and therefore more godlike.

Imagine our nightmare national scenario.

We have Christians and other conservatives who say they will/would vote for a guy who puts on a pretense of actual divinity. (Yup, that means Romney thinks he's literally another god!)

Since the Old Testament days, there was a word for that: Idolatry.

And nothing seemed to rile God more than His people committing idolatry -- or propping up the idolatry of others.

Yet many Christians aren't thinking twice about what propping up an idol could mean for divine consequences for our culture.

The following puts both this component -- plus the statement from the Times' article above -- all in integrated tie-ins:

Many people know of Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th "prophet" of the Lds church (1973-1985), as the man who allowed blacks to become Mormon priests in 1978.

But did you know Mormonism teaches you are all "gods in embryo"??? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Spencer W. Kimball on these very topics:

1969 "Being a GOD IN EMBRYO with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)

A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)

To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.

September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6057 (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)

1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a GOD IN EMBRYO. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975

November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=244ed0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine

This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-11-20-19.asp

28 posted on 05/20/2012 4:14:48 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Chong
his faith in What?

1. That the Bible is inadequate
2. That the Bible is lacking.
3. That the Bible is corrupted.

29 posted on 05/20/2012 4:21:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar
Hypocritical since the founder of Romney's religion was known as a booty chaser.


30 posted on 05/20/2012 4:23:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar
Hypocritical since the founder of Romney's religion was known as a booty chaser.


31 posted on 05/20/2012 4:25:10 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
“Romney’s Faith, Silent but Deep - and when the gods get together, it’s one busy place!”

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


32 posted on 05/20/2012 4:26:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Chong
So you have to be perfect to be accepted into your so called “church?”

Wow!

You came up with THIS from THAT??

Mr. Romney’s penchant for rules mirrors that of his church, where he once excommunicated adulterers

I put that as a plus for Romney.


There IS a bit MORE in the Book; you know...


1 Corinthians 5:11-13

'But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you.'

33 posted on 05/20/2012 4:31:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: unkus
Had you been drinking?

(Perhaps just sipped a bit while bathing...)

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



34 posted on 05/20/2012 4:33:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Had you been drinking?
(Perhaps just sipped a bit while bathing...)


Yep, crazy stuff.


35 posted on 05/20/2012 4:43:38 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: greyfoxx39
I've known quite a few Mormons over the years, some deeply righteous and a few like Harry Reid.

If Romney is like another Mormon Bishop I knew, I'd vote for him without question.

The man I knew could be trusted with anything or by anyone, especially by the most innocent and helpless.

Please Mitt, it's time to not be silent about what is most important.

36 posted on 05/20/2012 4:48:40 PM PDT by GBA (To understand what is happing to America and why, read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn)
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To: GBA; Zakeet; Colofornian
I was born mormon, raised mormon, married mormon, left mormonism. I have lived in several areas that were mormon-controlled. I don't want my children and grandchildren to have that experience.

Your bishop friend may have been a trustworthy soul, but keep in mind that when he attended the mormon temple he took this oath solemnly:

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Law of Consecration

That article does a fine job of relating how much Mitt is influenced by his religion. Don't think for one moment that if he takes the oath of office for POTUS that his oath to his religion will be cast aside.

Mormons are no better or worse than any other group of people..they just have a multi-million-dollar PR firm and people who judge the whole group by the good actions of a few, holding them up as paragons of virtue.


37 posted on 05/20/2012 5:00:25 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: txhurl

Was it a dream or a vision? Sounds like a nightmare that could either be a dream or vision. This whole thing, nomination process and Presidential election, is really getting weird.


38 posted on 05/20/2012 5:20:42 PM PDT by duffee (NEWT 2012)
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To: GBA

Romney and Reid are both temple mormons, only about 15% of lds reach that high level. Both have received awards for being what a momorn should be.
Romney has not done anything that would remove him from that high level. mormonism is not what appears to be.


39 posted on 05/20/2012 5:26:56 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39

“The tool of excommunication is held over the heads of mormon members for “sins” besides adultery..such as speaking out against the church doctrine or leaders.”

I wonder if the Republican party is going excommunicate me for the sin of speaking out against the one they are proclaiming to be our leader and nominee. Who would have thoughyt during the last few years with all the proclamations of “anybody but obama” that we would end up with the “anybody”?


40 posted on 05/20/2012 5:31:04 PM PDT by duffee (NEWT 2012)
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To: svcw

Apparently lying and denigrating others (allowing it to be done in your behalf by you minions is the same as doing it yourself)doesn’t count.


41 posted on 05/20/2012 5:35:17 PM PDT by duffee (NEWT 2012)
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To: duffee

Tell me what part of my post is a lie?
You made the charge, prove it.


42 posted on 05/20/2012 5:40:08 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39; All
From the article: In Mormonism, salvation depends in part on constantly making oneself purer and therefore more godlike.

Yes. "Making oneself..." Pure Pharisaical-like legalism.

Such attempts @ "making oneself purer and...more godlike" nullifies grace. Consider these three passages the apostle Paul wrote to the church @ Galatia:

Galatians 2:21:
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! [My note: If we de-magnify God's grace, we set it apart...and belittle the cross of Christ, which the Mormons don't honor, anyway]

Galatians 3:1-3: 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Galatians 5:4: You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. [Example of grace nullification]

The apostle Paul also told the Romans – 11:5-6: 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS; IF IT WERE, GRACE WOULD NO LONGER BE GRACE.

You see, it's almost as if the book of Galatians was God's anticipated book specifically written for Mormons! Why? Well, not only because Mormons are our legalists of this era, but it's another Gospel:

Mormonism is 'another gospel' -- supposedly delivered by 'an angel from heaven':

Galatians 1:6-9: 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Justification by faith -- something Mormons say is replaced by 'works'

...know that a person is NOT justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and NOT by the works of the law, because by the works of the law NO ONE will be justified...21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (Gal. 2:16, 21)

Faith or Works of the Law

1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your BELIEVING what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “BELIEVED God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7 Understand, then, that those who have FAITH are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles BY FAITH, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who RELY ON FAITH are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10 For ALL who RELY on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly NO ONE who RELIES on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live BY FAITH.” 12 The law is NOT based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that BY FAITH we might RECEIVE the promise of the Spirit. (Gal. 3:1-14)

Spiritual Legalism IS Bondage

7 So you are NO LONGER a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir. 8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods...we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. 1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Gal. 4:7-8, 31, 5:1)

The Book of Mormon preaches the exact opposite of justification by faith:

* 2 Nephi 25:23: ...ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU can DO." (2 Nephi 25:23)

* Helaman 12:24: "...may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, ACCORDING to their WORKS." (Helaman 12:24)

* Moroni 10:32: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and IF ye shall deny yourselves of ALL ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, THEN is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”

The Mormon teaching is clear above:
(1) Grace doesn't kick in for the Mormon UNTIL he's done "ALL" he can do... (2 Nephi 25:23) (All spiritually, relationally, physically, emotionally, intellectually, etc.)
(2) Grace is handed out in Mormonism tit-for-tat -- "according to works" (Helaman 12:24) This redefines the very word as a "free gift"
(3) In Mormonism, you have to FIRST deny yourself of ALL ungodliness -- not just some -- and ALSO love God with ALL your might, mind and strength -- and THEN God's grace kicks in (Moroni 10:32)

Utter hopelessness is this religious legalism of despair.

43 posted on 05/20/2012 5:46:19 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: duffee; svcw
Apparently lying and denigrating others...

Do you know that when you call others "liars" without proof you are denigrating others?

Do you always go around refuting the points you are trying to make on others with evidence that applies to yourself?

44 posted on 05/20/2012 5:48:23 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: GBA; greyfoxx39
If Romney is like another Mormon Bishop I knew, I'd vote for him without question. The man I knew could be trusted with anything or by anyone, especially by the most innocent and helpless.

Could either of these "bishops" -- Bishop Romney or the other one you know -- be trusted with their own godhood & running their own planet? (As Mormons profess?)

[See post #28 for a few details about Mormons believing they are gods]

Could either of those bishops be trusted with receiving worship? Receiving glory and adulation? Receiving prayer appeals?

You see you've neglected a key component here:

When temple Mormons behave as legalistically expected, of course they'll be on their best outward behavior: That's exactly what you'd expect from people auditioning for full-blown godhood!

I'd be interested in knowing, GBA: Name me ONE candidate or potential candidate you'd vote for in some future POTUS election if they announced their divinity tomorrow?

Gingrich? Santorum? Sarah Palin? Fill in the blank?

Which one of these candidates' vulnerability to deception and lack of obvious discernment gets a free pass from you if they SINCERELY thought they were already a "god in embryo" on their way to full-blown godhood?

If they don't get a free pass from you re: an eval of who's going to be THE leader of the free world, why Mormons?

45 posted on 05/20/2012 5:55:51 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: svcw; duffee; Colofornian
Are you sure that Duffee's comment wasn't referring to your comment "Romney has not done anything that would remove him from that high level".

"Having your minions do it for you doesn't count"

I read the whole post differently from you.

Duffee, care to clear things up?

46 posted on 05/20/2012 5:56:55 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39; duffee; Colofornian

duffee, if grey is correct and I miss read your post I apologize. Can you clear this up? Thanks.


47 posted on 05/20/2012 6:00:59 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: duffee; xzins
Speaking of the Republican party, I received the "please donate" letter from the RNC the other day.

I taped a nickel to the reply, noted "five cents for RINOs" and told them to take me off the list.

As to "the sin of speaking out against the one they are proclaiming to be our leader and nominee" the ABOs are doing their damndest to excommunicate from FR anyone who isn't toeing the line.

I'll vote for Virgil Goode and down ticket for conservative candidates. It's MY vote and MY decision...not anyone else's.

48 posted on 05/20/2012 6:12:56 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39
I've known a few people who bailed out and their stories were jaw dropping enough that I had trouble believing it.

As groups go, they were pretty thick in a couple of places I've lived, mostly were good neighbors and co-workers and the Bishop I worked for at 18 was an excellent boss.

I still wish I could have convinced that one former morman to marry me. That girl was unforgettably fine.

She and her brother definitely felt the same way you do and were happy to have gotten out.

49 posted on 05/20/2012 6:15:14 PM PDT by GBA (To understand what is happing to America and why, read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn)
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To: Colofornian
I'd be interested in knowing, GBA: Name me ONE candidate or potential candidate you'd vote for in some future POTUS election if they announced their divinity tomorrow?

Divinity? I can honestly say I have never considered a candidate's divinity before, only their positions and actions.

At this point, the only things Romney has going for him are he's not obama and he's still not obama.

Romney's positions and record as governor along with his campaign tactics are total deal breakers, unless he as a "Paul's conversion" on several vitally important issues.

Then, we might have a chance.

Otherwise, trying to beat evil with lesser evil is insanity and worse.

In fact, that strategy is more or less why we are where we are now.

And now that's the plan for saving ourselves???

"This is like deja vu all over again."

50 posted on 05/20/2012 6:39:47 PM PDT by GBA (To understand what is happing to America and why, read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn)
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