Posted on 05/22/2012 7:05:50 AM PDT by xzins
Hi, Sister.
As one who has joined in the debate with evolutionists to some degree...much more in the past...I absolutely agree that you have been a stalwart in that debate with Alamo-girl. I have even had the honor of early copies of some of your and AG’s writings, and I’ve been tremendously blessed by them.
So, as always, this is not about religious faith. We share that same faith.
I speak about political positions taken by Romney now and in the past.
I don’t need to stretch to claim that Romney is a radical liberal.
Just one month ago, Mitt Romney spoke in support of gay adoption by gay couples.
So, I’m not desperately reaching for material. I get it, and it get it recently, from the liberal Romney himself.
Special pleading for this man is what is reminiscent of evolutionists doing a tap dance for their favorite theory. Only this time it’s ABOs for their favorite candidate.
Of all things ....GAY COUPLES!
LOL!
I hate to say it but your presuppositions about our presuppositions are neither rational nor logical.
Romney is not evil per se. Nor is he out to Destroy the American Republic. He has proven himself to be if not a "congenital liar" certainly he is a serial liar. He is not out to destroy the capitalist system, however his version of capitalism is more of a socialist corporatism that has basically become the standard working model of today's American capitalism; a synergism of socialism and capitalism working together for the good of the political establishment.
As for the allegation that we think that Romney is trying to "integrate the United States into a new globalist political order run by some nefarious internationalist cabal," there is no secret that this has been the goal of the globalists for the last several decades and those globalists include not only Democrats like Obama, but also Republicans like the two last Bush Presidents. FWIW there are very few, if any, wholly American corporations that trade on the NYSE. Most of the companies traded on the stock exchanges have no loyalty to the United States whatsoever and with their political influences through donations and perks to political officials, there is nothing American about the capitalist system we now have in place. Prior to WWII most American corporations were loyal to the United States and to United States interests. They joined together with all Americans to defeat our common enemies. These days most American Corporations join with the Chinese and Arabs and other big investors and view patriotic Americans as more or less their common enemy.
But none of your reasons is why I cannot vote for Romney.
I made a pact long ago never to support any candidate who was "pro-abortion."
Romney has a proven record as a pro-abortion politician and governor. He has no track record whatsoever of being pro-life. He and his wife have sent their hard earned money to Planned Parenthood and Romney signed into law a taxpayer funded abortion provision into his socialist health care law.
If he were a proven conservative on all other issues, that one is the killer for me. I won't vote FOR him. I will vote for the pro-life candidate. Romney has no legitimate track record as a public servant who voted conservative or who supported pro-life candidates, judges or legislation.
Betty if you can vote for him because you "hope" he will be a conservative, then you can go ahead and vote for him. But Romney is not now nor has he ever been a conservative. He is a knee jerk liberal and when push comes to shove, his knees will jerk.
That just totally flabbergasts me, CC. How can the ABOs not acknowledge what the man said just one month ago!!
We've got video, we've got transcript, and we've got commentary.
Indeed, that's an excellent description of my sense of what it's like to live in Massachusetts — as a "long-time conservative 'behind enemy lines.'"
I work for a wonderful non-profit organization here that does wonderful work. Yet in the employee parking lot, every other car (it seems) is a Prius, sporting Obama/Biden and Elizabeth Warren bumper stickers. It devoted the Spring issue of its flagship magazine to a tribute to Rachel Carson. Everybody I talk to is a devotee of anthropogenic global warming. (I very gingerly like to try to point out to these folks that the science in support of AGW simply doesn't exist; that the geologic record shows natural transitions in global warming and cooling cycles throughout the Earth's history; that long-cycle solar activity very likely has impacts on the Earth's weather; that CO2 is essential to flourishing plant life, etc. Again, I say I do this "gingerly....)
At that point, usually folks go quiet on me, and I let the matter pass.... You can only do what you can when you're dealing with politically-correct, progressivist ideologues — which is the common mindset in this state, both in the political class and in much of the "educated" populace.
Thank you so very much, dear Agamemnon, for your series of outstanding essay/posts! It's good to learn that you are a "political realist" — and I think you've given us some highly valuable advice.
That is a great line, PM. It is a wonderfully concise explanation of social corporatism...and right on the money about the how the elites think they really are elite and that they really should run things.
In my heart of hearts, I do believe they think of themselves as a new aristocracy (we know the Kennedy's have believed this for generations), and I do think they are fine with a "free market" so long as "the cronies" get to "run it" as the heads of government, corporations, and institutions.
The only real difference between aristocracy and the various forms of socialism is who gets to be "the elite".
The next thing you know they'll be inter-marrying. (Oh wait a minute....:-)
Good grief, you really are an uninformed moron, aren't you?
Look, I don't know yet how or whether I will vote in November. But I refuse to let you or anyone else make me feel guilty, whatever I do. When Obama wins, put the blame on the Republican party for betraying you and everyone else by forcing Romney on us.
So Agamemnon, what you’re saying is that we desperately need to vote for the pro-abortion, pro-gay agenda, anti-gun, pro-progressive taxation, pro-government run health care, tax and fee raising, cap-and-trade supporting, anti-American sovereignty, anti-religious freedom, pro-social spending progressive with an “R” after his name so we can beat the pro-abortion, pro-gay agenda, anti-gun, pro-progressive taxation, pro-government run health care, tax and fee raising, cap-and-trade supporting, anti-American sovereignty, anti-religious freedom, pro-social spending progressive with an “D” after his name?
And exactly what blithering difference does it make?
I can't imagine why you would think this. You mean a guy who the GOP base and drives off independents even more than McCain did can't beat Obama?
Good grief, it's almost like you're using common sense instead of wishful thinking, or something.
I compliment you on your knowledge of history and use of examples to make you points...and in these times, and particularly for this election, they are very valid points.
Romeny is certainly not the "perfet" conservative candidate, or anything close to it. Few are, including Newt and Santorum by the way.
But Romney as President with a majority GOP House and Senate (and hopefully more and more tea party types amongst them) will be orders of magnitude better for this Republic than four more years of the Kenyan Marxist we currently have as President. He wants to destroy this Republic and he is tenacuiously going about it.
Again, thanks, and BZ.
Mitt Romney needs to drop out of the race and stop stealing support from Virgil Goode.
Today’s environmental-whackos are like those Darwinists too...as are most liberal/progressives.
Stay with it, dear betty boop, you are impacting and influencing more people than you know in terms of lurkers, just as you surmized.
Once again, God’s speed.
This pretty much sums up the mentality of the pro-Romneyite on FR. Forget all that jazz about "principles" and "conservatism" and whatnot. People just dislike Romney 'cause he's a Mormon. That's the only reason. No other reason exists.
Sure.
But how does somebody reason or communicate with someone who actually believes that? Seriously, how is communication with them even possible? If you have somebody who is willing to completely dismiss everything that somebody actually says about why they don't support Romney, and instead chalks it up to "they don't like Mormons," and makes this their vehilc for argumentation, then it's quite obvious that this person is beyond the help of reason. Such a person is an idiot - in the true and historical sense of the word. They are simply so wrapped up in themselves that they can't even begin to comprehend, much less fully understand, the motivations of other people. They're like the severely autistic child who exists in his own personal fact-space, a bubble cut off from the rest of the world.
I can understand why the people who have finlandised and chosen to support Romney have done so. I disagree with them, but I can understand their motivations. I can understand that they really and truly believe the naive proposition that Romney is significantly different than Obama, that he would be somehow "better" than Obama, or in the very least that somehow Romney, at least, would be "controllable" by the Right if he can be placed into office alongside a GOP-controlled Congressand Senate. Again, these are wrongheaded arguments with not a lick of actual evidence to support them, but I can understand why Romney supports make them. I don't simply assume that it's because they hate whatever religion it is that Virgil Goode belongs to.
It's sad to see the pro-Romney people on here forcing themselves to twist up their own mental realities to try to forcibly imprint "Romney is actually okay" onto the actual reality, which is that Romney is nothing more than a progressive who essentially holds the same worldview as Obama, and whose actual record shows that he has staked out largely the same positions as Obama. I realise that the Romney campaign shook the etch-a-sketch, and he now is having to pretend to take some conservative positions on his campaign website and whatnot, but as we've already been told by his own people, the etch-a-sketch will be shaken once again if he actually manages to beat his fellow progressive socialist. You folks who are expecting to have any leverage on Romney, or who even genuinely believe that he's turned over a new leaf are naive. I really and truly wish I had some beachfront property in Wyoming to sell you, because I'd make a bundle.
Especially Betty Boop, it's saddening to see the loop-de-loops to which you will resort to try to put a smiley face sticker on Romney's record. You don't seriously believe the nonsense you've written in your defences of him, do you? If so, then again, I wish I had that land to sell.
For those who have enough principles to not support Romney, for those who still actually care about the direction of the country instead of just getting Team R into office instead of Team D, I would urge you all to just ignore the pro-Romney people. Seriously. Reason doesn't work with them. Ideological appeal fails with them. Might as well spend your time more productively in searching out other people who don't like the current options. They're out there. I talk with a lot of people, and have not seen a mood like this for a long time, where conservatives, especially of the NON-Republican type, are turned off so strongly by both major party candidates. Supposedly conservative FReepers can spend their days convincing themselves that Romney's not really that bad - there are a lot of real, flesh-and-blood people out there who are not beholden to the GOP and who disagree. Let's reach them, instead of wasting our time on social autists.
Then you must vote your conscience — as it is your sacred privilege to do.
I will absolutely do the same, and vote for Romney. That doesn't mean I'm "pro-abortion," by the way....
Agamemnon is right to point out that the two men standing for election (reelection) as president could not be where they are against God's Will. Effectively, we are given a choice of only these two candidates. I accept what I cannot change, and try to work through to the most good possible under the current conditions.
Excellent post.
I personally don’t have any issues with mormons. Mitt Romney on the other hand has used Obama style manipulations and insults to get where he is.
His loss will be his own fault.
Word. I am not voting for Romney. Period.
It seems to me that one resorts to ad hominum arguments when one doesn't have any better argument. You aren't responding to your opponents in a rational fashion; you simply trash them.
Don't worry, BB, I intend to give your posts the thrashing they deserve (or perhaps, don't deserve would be a better way of putting it) later this afternoon when I get some more time.
You have commanded a great debate. I remain sold, and quite in your favor, against the pragmatic moderates arguing for the coronation of Romney Ruse out of their nicely nurtured and well groomed utter fear of Obama 2.0.
The fear filled who want to forever color inside the lines with only the crayons they have been assigned will never join in with any attack on the BIG PICTURE.
Rigidly ensconced in minutiae and in their microscopic analysis of minutiae, the realignment of capitalism with socialism will instead be met with the likes of a wing and a prayer, riding atop the Romney vehicle right into the straight wind of severe socialism.
In one particular case, you have to endure the insufferable self aggrandizement that accompanies countless attempts to dump you with cascades of minutiae, and yet you guys have managed to meet both the tactics and the chest pumping with admirable tolerance, returning again and again to your clear eyed intent to stand against the “fundamental transformation of America”. Sure as hell, this will not be overcome by the likes of Romney.
Thanks, and kuddos!
God be with us, and US with him.
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