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Child is transgender at age 5 (super sick society, permissive parents Barf alert!)
Bangor Daily News ^

Posted on 05/23/2012 8:20:36 PM PDT by MindBender26

Kathryn wanted pants. And short hair. Then trucks and swords.

Her parents, Jean and Stephen, were fine with their toddler’s embrace of all things boy. They’ve both been schoolteachers and coaches in Maryland and are pretty immune to the quirky stuff that kids do.

But it kept getting more intense, all this boyishness from their younger daughter. She began to argue vehemently — as only a tantrum-prone toddler can — that she was not a girl.

“I am a boy,” the child insisted, at just 2 years old.

And that made Jean uneasy. It was weird.

“I am a boy” became a constant theme in struggles over clothing, bathing, swimming, eating, playing, breathing.

Jean and Stephen gave up trying to force Kathryn to wear the frilly dresses Grandma kept sending. Kathryn wanted nothing to do with her big sister’s glittery, sparkly pink approach to the world. (Her sister attends school with my son, which is how I came to know the family. This story is using the family’s middle names to protect their identity beyond their community, where their situation already is widely known.)

Kathryn didn’t even want to be around other little girls, let alone acknowledge that she biologically is one.

Jean tried to put her daughter’s behavior to rest. She sat down with a toddler-version of an anatomy book and showed Kathryn, by then 3, the cartoonish drawings of a naked boy and girl.

“See? You’re a girl. You have girl parts,” Jean told her big-eyed daughter. “You’ve always been a girl.”

Kathryn looked up at her mom, incomprehension clouding her round face.

“When did you change me?” the child asked.

Was something wrong with Kathryn?

Her little girl’s brain was different. Jean could tell. She had heard about transgender people, those who are one gender physically but the other gender mentally. Who hadn’t caught the transgendered Chaz Bono drama on “Dancing With the Stars”?

“But this young? In kids?” Jean wondered. She had grown up in a traditional family in the Midwest, with a mother who’d gone to medical school after having children. Jean considered herself open-minded, but this was clearly outside her realm of experience.

She went online to see if a book about transgender kids even existed. It did — ” The Transgender Child: A Handbook for Families and Professionals.” Its summary read: “What do you do when your toddler daughter’s first sentence is that she’s a boy? What will happen when your preschool son insists on wearing a dress to school? Is this ever just a phase? How can you explain this to your neighbors and family?”

Bingo.

When it arrived at their Maryland home, Jean ripped through it, soaking up every word. But she couldn’t bring herself to share with her husband what she’d read.

Jean, 38, and Stephen, 40, had met at a Washington area gym, where both taught classes. They married in 2001.

Jean eventually quit teaching to stay home with her kids and continue her education. Stephen, who comes from an immigrant family, teaches science at a public high school, where he is beloved by many of his students. His Facebook page floods with their hellos and happy birthdays. He is vocal about encouraging girls to buck the stereotypes in science.

Still, Jean wasn’t sure how he’d react to her suspicions that Kathryn might be transgender. She decided she wouldn’t voice them unless she was totally convinced herself.

She went back online and watched videos of parents talking about their realization that their child was transgender. They all described a variation of the conversation she’d had with Kathryn: “Why did you change me?” “God made a mistake with me.” “Something went wrong when I was in your belly.”

Many talked about their painful decision to allow their children to publicly transition to the opposite gender — a much tougher process for boys who wanted to be girls.

Some of what Jean heard was reassuring: Parents who took the plunge said their children’s behavior problems largely disappeared, schoolwork improved, happy kid smiles returned.

But some of what she heard was scary: children taking puberty blockers in elementary school and teens embarking on hormone therapy before they’d even finished high school.

All of it is a new and controversial phenomenon.

In the United States, children have been openly transitioning genders for probably less than a decade, said Jack Drescher, a New York psychiatrist who is a leader in the field of gender orientation. There is very little to go on, scientifically, to support that approach, and the very idea of labeling young children as transgender is shocking to many people.

But to others, it makes perfect sense.

“In children, gender solidifies at about 3 to 6,” explained Patrick Kelly, a psychiatrist with the division of child and adolescent psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Children’s Center.

That’s about the age when girls gravitate to girl things and boys to boy things. It’s when the parents who ban baby dolls or toy guns see their little girl swaddle and cradle a stuffed animal or watch in awe as their boy makes guttural, spitting Mack truck sounds while four-wheeling his toast over his eggs, then uses his string cheese as a sword.

And it’s the age when a child whose gender orientation is at odds with his or her biology begins expressing that disconnect — in Kathryn’s case, loudly.

The American Psychiatric Association has an official diagnosis for this: gender identity disorder in children.

Those who have it, according to the association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, experience “a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual’s own sex.”

And, it adds, “mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behavior in boys is not sufficient” to warrant the diagnosis. It requires “a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity.”

The manual is being updated this year, and a task force that Drescher serves on is studying whether to remove the word “disorder” from the diagnosis and instead call the condition “gender incongruence.”

Whatever it’s called, it can’t always be solved by letting girls wear pants or boys wear dresses, psychiatrists say. Many of the kids have gender dysphoria, a persistent dislike of their bodies. They may shower with their clothes on so they don’t have to see themselves. Or demand to know when their penises will grow in. Or, in extreme cases, try to cut their penises off.

Parents who ignore or deny these problems can make life miserable for their kids, who can become depressed or suicidal, psychiatrists say. Outside their homes, the transgendered are frequently marginalized and scorned, pushed into an underworld, outside of the mainstream. More often than the rest of the population, transgender teens and adults are harassed, assaulted, even killed. Remember that beating caught on video at a Baltimore County McDonald’s last year? Or the off-duty D.C. police officer who was accused of standing on the hood of a car and shooting a transgendered woman through the windshield?

Jean didn’t want Kathryn to hate herself or be subjected to hate from others. Maybe allowing her to declare herself a boy in preschool would make life easier in the long run.

Yet not everyone who treats gender identity disorder in children believes in allowing them to transition to the opposite sex when they are young.

Kenneth Zucker, a child psychologist in Toronto who is on the psychiatric association’s task force, advocates neutrality for kids struggling with their gender identity.

Children who see him get the Barbies or toy soldiers replaced by puzzles and board games. His theory is that kids should be allowed to grow into a gender and not be categorized.

There’s some evidence — most of it anecdotal because so little research exists — that gender dysphoria is a phase many children outgrow.

In the United States, it’s impossible to know how many children have gender identity problems because the condition usually goes unacknowledged by parents and pediatricians, said Edgardo Menvielle, who counsels transgender kids at Children’s National Medical Center in the District. About a dozen children from the area belong to his support group, and hundreds of families across the country are part of his online support network.

In the decade that Menvielle has been counseling such children, he says that about 80 percent end up switching back to what their biology tells them. The rest remain transgender into adulthood.

Was Kathryn going through a phase? After many hours of research and another full summer of bathing-suit fights, Jean didn’t think so.

Kathryn was 4 when Jean finally broached the subject with her husband.

“Have you noticed that Kathryn wants to be a boy?” she remembered asking one night as she and Stephen were washing the dinner dishes after putting the kids to bed.

“She’s just a tomboy,” Stephen replied.

Jean shook her head.

“No, Stephen, I’m pretty sure Kathryn is transgender. She’s not just a tomboy,” she said. “And I think maybe we should start letting her call herself a boy.”

Stephen thought she was nuts. “I told her she was making too much of this,” he recalled.

As a teacher, Stephen knew how cruel kids could be. He imagined his child walking into the social battlefield that is school, insisting she was a boy when under her clothing, she wasn’t.

What about bathrooms? P.E.? The prom? How would all that go?

Despite his resistance, Stephen promised his wife that he would pay closer attention to Kathryn’s behavior and really listen for her “I am a boy” anthem.

It didn’t take long.

“We were in the car. I was driving,” Stephen told me.

Kathryn was in the back and grabbed a book off the seat.

“Daddy, I’m going to read you a story, okay?” Kathryn said, opening a random book and pretending to read. “It’s about a little boy who was born. But he was born like a girl.”

Stephen nearly slammed the brakes, then listened as the story unfolded about how unhappy the little boy was.

“Okay. I’m listening, Jean,” he said after he got home.

They took Kathryn to a psychologist outside of Philadelphia who specializes in treating the transgendered. Michele Angello confirmed what Jean had long suspected: Kathryn had gender dysphoria. She recommended that Kathryn be allowed to live as a boy, a prospect that filled Stephen with dread but his 4-year-old with elation.

Kathryn wanted to be called “he” right away. And Kathryn wanted to be called Talon, then Isaac, but finally settled on a permanent boy’s name in the fall. (The Post is using Tyler, the name his parents say they would have given him if he’d been born a boy.)

“When we finally let Tyler shop in the boys’ clothing department, it was like the skies opened up,” Jean said.

They switched to saying he/him/his and stopped using the name “Kathryn” at home.

It was a huge upheaval, a change Jean and Stephen had to remind themselves of every day. Then came the next challenge: telling family, friends, teachers and other parents that their daughter had become their son.

Tyler made his public debut at Sunday school at their Presbyterian church.

The teenagers who help out in class laughed that it took Kathryn’s parents so long to figure out they had a Tyler.

The pastor there was so supportive of the family that she invited a panel from a transgender support group to come just before services one Sunday in January and explain what Tyler and his family were going through. The room was packed.

“We’re so happy to be here. They usually put us in the basement,” said Catherine Hyde, the leader of the group and the parent of a transgender teenager with a tough story.

At 4, Will told his mom: “Something went wrong in your belly. I was supposed to be a girl,” Hyde said.

She and her husband wheedled the Barbie dolls out of Will’s hands, told him over and over again that “You can’t wear tutus!” They put all their parental might into erasing his behavior.

In response, Will threatened suicide when he was 6. He hated the five years of relentless karate lessons they insisted on to toughen him up. Given the chance to decorate his own room, he came up with “the pinkest, pompomiest bedroom in Howard County,” Hyde said.

They went to therapists, who said Will was probably just gay. Hyde and her Marine husband could live with that.

“You can be as gay as you want, but if you go trans on me, it’s on your own money, your own time and out of my house,” she remembered telling her son, then 15. Hyde gives lots of speeches and presentations about her journey. Each time I’ve seen her speak, she still tears up a bit when she recounts what she told her child.

It was years before Hyde and her husband acknowledged their child’s agony. They finally asked Will if he wanted to take puberty blockers. He said yes. And eventually, a whole new child, now 18, emerged.

All those years of pain, therapy, suffering and strife — that is what Jean wants to avoid.

She hoped the people at the church would understand. Between cookies and coffee after the presentation, many came over to hug her.

When it came time for Tyler to make the switch at preschool, Jean and Stephen had to write a very uncomfortable letter to all the parents explaining what was happening.

“If I had a child with autism, I wouldn’t have to do this,” Jean sighed.

They struggled with whether to include the words “gender dysphoria.” “I didn’t want them to think there was something wrong with our child. Just something different,” she said.

They kept the medical term in there so other parents wouldn’t think this was just loose and creative parenting. “I don’t want people to think I’m just indulging a phase. That’s not what this is.”

Tyler’s sister, who’s 8, was much more casual about describing her transgender sibling. “It’s just a boy mind in a girl body,” she explained matter-of-factly to her second-grade classmates at her private school, which will allow Tyler to start kindergarten as a boy, with no mention of Kathryn.

Staff members recently had a training session on gender identity disorder to prepare not only for Tyler but also for other transgender kids who may be arriving. This year alone, at least two other families have contacted the school about enrolling their transgender kids, according to its director of admissions.

Not everyone has been accepting of what Jean and Stephen are doing. Some members of Stephen’s family were incredulous when he sent them letters about Tyler’s transformation.

Jean and Stephen got into a huge fight with Tyler’s gymnastics coach, who insisted he keep wearing a leotard to practice because his registration form said “female.”

Tyler was miserable pulling on a leotard when the boys in class all got to wear shorts and a T-shirt.

“Finally, we just got someone to change F to M on the paperwork,” Jean said angrily. “Why does the coach care so much about what’s in my child’s underpants anyways?”

More than once, Jean has come home from the gym infuriated because someone was gossiping about her child. Just the other day, she spotted a co-worker and another adult pointing and laughing at Tyler, who finally got to wear just swim trunks at the pool.

Jean marched over to them and said, “I can provide you with a lot of information about transgender children if you like.”

They clammed up.

“You never meant to, but you become this advocate. All day, every day,” she told me, clearly exhausted.

A recent family trip to Disney World raised the issue of how to handle the plane tickets. What if they booked the ticket in Tyler’s name, but the TSA did some kind of a full-body scan and saw that Tyler’s biology is female?

Like a peanut allergy mom with her EpiPen, the transformation of Kathryn to Tyler means the family always travels with a “Safe Folder.” It has birth records, medical records and the all-important diagnosis of gender dysphoria and the doctor recommendation that Kathryn be allowed to live as a boy. Jean never knows when an encounter with Tyler could result in a grown-up freak-out or even a call to Child and Family Services. It’s always a fear looming over the family.

Tyler doesn’t really like to talk about Kathryn or even acknowledge she existed.

“I’m not transgender,” he fumes when he hears the word, often spoken by his mom as she explains things. “I. Am. A. Boy.”

During one of my visits a few months ago, he showed me their family picture wall, full of pictures of two girls in lovely dresses.

“No Tyler,” he pouted.

Those are issues that are easy for Tyler’s parents to fix.

But in about five years, they will have to decide whether to put Tyler on puberty blockers to keep his body from maturing and menstruating. Using those drugs represents a leap of faith, psychiatrists said, though the effects are reversible if the puberty blockers are halted.

The much tougher call comes when kids are about 15 or 16. At that age, they can begin hormone injections that will make them grow the characteristics of the opposite biological sex.

That’s a method being pioneered by Norman Spack, director of one of the nation’s first gender identity medical clinics, at Children’s Hospital Boston, and an advocate of early gender transitions. Those hormone treatments essentially create a nearly gender-neutral being, making sex-change surgery far less painful and expensive for young adults. But the hormones also make people infertile — a daunting and irreversible decision for parents to make when a child is 15 or 16. Only a handful have opted to do so, Spack said.

Jean e-mailed me an article about the drug controversy late one night, the time that many parents stay up and fret about their kids. “See what we’re facing?!” she wrote.

She acknowledges anxieties about what lies ahead. But Jean and Stephen aren’t harboring doubts about what they are doing now.

“If Tyler wants to be Kathryn again, that’s fine,” she said. “But right now, this works. He’s happy. I just want my child to be happy.”

As for Tyler, he is reveling in his new identity. The constant nagging, fighting, obsessing about being a boy is gone. Tyler is just Tyler, a high-energy kid with a Spider-Man-themed bedroom.

On my last visit, he took a brief break from playing with my boys and their endless supply of space cruisers to show me a new addition to the family picture wall. It now features a prominent photo of Tyler in short hair and a red polo shirt. He is smiling.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: childabuse; disorders; genderiddisorder; homosexualagenda; psychology; transgender
What is it about NO this little GIRL does not understand? In a TV story tonight, the reporter mentioned that these parents went from shrink to shrink until they found one that would agree with them.

Nothing is wrong anymore, nothing is bad; everything is a medical condition.

Sick

1 posted on 05/23/2012 8:20:45 PM PDT by MindBender26
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To: MindBender26

this is child abuse, plain and simple


2 posted on 05/23/2012 8:23:13 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: MindBender26

You are right: sick.


3 posted on 05/23/2012 8:24:26 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: MindBender26
Kathryn wanted pants. And short hair. Then trucks and swords.

..and 50 years ago kids kids wanted Superman capes! ...then they tried to fly out the second floor bedroom window!

I expect similar results!

4 posted on 05/23/2012 8:26:00 PM PDT by massmike (The choice is clear in November: Romney or Caligula!)
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To: MindBender26

For girls to be “tomboys” is common enough and does not presage any permanent gender dysphoria. If she wants to wear overalls and play with toy trucks and GI Joes and disdains Barbies and tea parties, well enough. She’ll probably find the right cowboy “pardner” for her when she comes to that age. But for her to insist she’s a boy... and not be kidding or joking... please pardon me but I wonder if the parents set this up with oddball shrinks.


5 posted on 05/23/2012 8:29:33 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: MindBender26

Once upon a time, kids used to grow out of these things—pass through a tomboy phase and then eventually through preteen girlhood and into womanhood.

What changed?


6 posted on 05/23/2012 8:29:56 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: MindBender26

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomboy


7 posted on 05/23/2012 8:32:21 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: massmike

“Kathryn wanted pants. And short hair. Then trucks and swords.”

_____________________________________________________________

Lordy, so did I. I wasn’t a ‘girly girl’ by any means growing up. Full blown ‘tomboy’! Hunted, fished, ball....yadda, yadda. But I turned out pretty well! Husband and two kids! :-)


8 posted on 05/23/2012 8:32:45 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (A MUST WATCH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KeOLurcQaqI)
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To: elpadre

I’d also be curious about the presence of possible profound dysfunctions in the family. Could the mom, or dad, or both, be a bully, wittingly or otherwise presenting the child with a distorted example and/or shame about things that scarcely deserve it?


9 posted on 05/23/2012 8:35:57 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: MindBender26

pure child abuse.

Parents need to learn how to say NO, but they are both true believing leftists.

I heard that when Cher found out her 11 year old daughter was being molested by the nanny, she thought it was a good learning experience. Then again, we all know how Chastity turned out.


10 posted on 05/23/2012 8:38:58 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Honorary Serb

For some reason the tomboy is more socially acceptable than the male counterpart, the little fellow who likes to play with household items and cooking etc. (even I’d draw the line at makeup and girls’ dresses, however).


11 posted on 05/23/2012 8:39:13 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: cloudmountain

We’re on a slippery slope.

We have normalized homosexuality. Then the homosexual community embraced “LGBT”, meaning lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, and transgendered.

Now we are on the road to normalizing the “T” in LGBT.

And we’re not going to say that this “trans” issue is something for adults to deal with, now we’re saying that children as young as 2 can declare themselves to be the other sex.

And we’re saying that good liberal parents are supposed to go along and enable these kids in this matter.

The whole tone of this article is so sickeningly liberal. Society is intolerant and all that. What will people say? We’re supposed to worry about how these parents are going to explain to people the sex identity of their child, and how difficult this is for them.

Well, our culture has pretty much normalized homosexuality. Now we’re on to other sexual problems. But they aren’t problems, they aren’t mental conditions anymore. No, they are just the way people are, and society at large is too bigotoed/intolerant/uneducated to understand that their child with a vag wants to be a boy. All areas of society which are structured around male and female are expected to bend over backwards to make these parents happy. That’s our politically correct world.


12 posted on 05/23/2012 8:40:10 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: MindBender26

I’m suspicious of this whole story. We don’t know that these kids ever said these things. If they did, they have serious psychological problems. You shouldn’t indulge insanity.


13 posted on 05/23/2012 8:41:01 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Only a matter of time before someone makes the argument:
“If they’re old enough to decide what gender they want to be,they’re old enough to consent to sex...or to marry!”

Remember:
The 1972 Gay Rights Platform
Demand #7 - Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.
http://www.article8.org/docs/general/platform.htm


14 posted on 05/23/2012 8:45:45 PM PDT by massmike (The choice is clear in November: Romney or Caligula!)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

there are lesbians in Kalipornia who have their son whose about 10 on sex change hormones!


15 posted on 05/23/2012 8:48:34 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I believe homosexuality comes from not being at home in one’s own born gender, and wanting to be filled up with it some other way (perhaps combined with a bullying spirit). If there really weren’t any such valid social construct as manliness or womanliness, there wouldn’t be any concept to lust after. If liberals who wanted to abolish those “pernicious sexist stereotypes” really got their way in greater society, many a homosexual would be very disappointed.


16 posted on 05/23/2012 8:50:00 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: MindBender26

Marxism-—a fish is a dog is a boy is a girl. It is irrational. They changed the language decades ago—introduced the word “gender” because they needed to take us off of the logical, truthful male/female paradigm (like a frog in the pot) Children will be conditioned and brainwashed when they are forming their worldview so that when they were parents they would believe any stupid idea that Marxists/feminists/homosexuals throw out there.

Parents are gladly surrendering their children to perverts. This is what our public schools are conditioning children to do—give the state their own children. These kids will grow up and be a mess.... be irrational-—destroys marriage—destroys virtue and morality—makes God the Designer a joke—anything is Right as long as it FEELS right.

Exactly what was going on with children in Ancient Rome when it collapse.


17 posted on 05/23/2012 8:57:22 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Honorary Serb
What changed?

People started obsessing over things instead of just letting a phase run its course or nipping it in the bud.

There was a time when the parents ruled the roost, not the children.

18 posted on 05/23/2012 8:57:22 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: MindBender26

Last time I looked this was a paraphilic disorder.

These parents should have a visit from child services.


20 posted on 05/23/2012 9:01:33 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: MindBender26

So by this rationale if a guy thinks he’s Napolean you give him a funny hat, a sword and tell him that if he invades Russia he’ll feel better about himself.


21 posted on 05/23/2012 9:02:19 PM PDT by Eagles6 (S)
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To: massmike

“If they’re old enough to decide what gender they want to be,they’re old enough to consent to sex...or to marry!”<<

Yup!...and when the little girl wants to marry her dog...were gonna have to make sure the dog gets free health insurance...


22 posted on 05/23/2012 9:09:55 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: MindBender26

Liberalism is a mental disorder.


23 posted on 05/23/2012 9:18:53 PM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore (The world continues to be stuck in a "all leftist, all of the time" funk. BUNK THE FUNK!)
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To: MindBender26; Abundy; Albion Wilde; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; bayliving; BFM; ...

Maryland “Freak State” PING!


24 posted on 05/23/2012 9:29:16 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Occupy DC General Assembly: We are Marxist tools. WE ARE MARXIST TOOLS!)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Paraphilias don’t often show up that early. She just called herself a boy. It doesn’t say she flirted with girls or anyone else for that matter. It isn’t a paraphilia by any appearance. Those might appear later on, though.


25 posted on 05/23/2012 9:33:40 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: MindBender26

This sounds more like sensationalism than fact.


26 posted on 05/23/2012 9:40:12 PM PDT by Republican1795.
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To: MindBender26

MAYBE WE SHOULD FORCE THE PARENTS TO CHANGE THEIR GENDER. SEE HOW THEY LIKE IT.


27 posted on 05/23/2012 9:45:47 PM PDT by Crucial
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To: Dilbert San Diego
they want to do whatever to whomever at whatever age and don't want any dirty looks about it...

this is all leading to nambla and that crap.....

protect your children folks...

28 posted on 05/23/2012 9:51:09 PM PDT by cherry
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: HiTech RedNeck

I’m of the mind paraphilic disorders are a learned behaviors.

If one can be “bisexual” one can choose.


30 posted on 05/23/2012 9:55:21 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: MindBender26

No breasts yet, hormones not kicked in yet, menstrual cycle not begun yet, yeah, it’s not hard to feel more a boy than a girl at this age.


31 posted on 05/23/2012 9:59:29 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: All


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32 posted on 05/23/2012 9:59:48 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Clint N. Suhks

The underlying temptations and illusions may or may not themselves be chosen. They may be innocent enough mistakes given the level of knowledge of the child, nonetheless it is incumbent upon that person as child or adult upon becoming illuminated to disavow those old temptations and illusions. The sooner it happens, and the fewer times the behavior is pleasure-enhanced (sexual climax is a powerful training agent) the easier it is.


33 posted on 05/23/2012 10:00:05 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: MindBender26

One sentence in the article struck me as being very strange. The little girl wanted to read a book to her father, so she picked up a book in the back seat about a boy who was born a girl. That’s when the father knew his daughter was a boy in a girl’s body.

So, I have to wonder what this child was doing with a transgender book in the back seat in the first place. That’s not exactly normal reading material for a child, is it?


34 posted on 05/23/2012 10:13:09 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

What’s “temptation” without some kind of coercion? I’ve seen it on the Cartoon Channel even.

Anecdotally I’ve seen, in my youth, some “older boys” turn two friends on my little league team into Sodomites.

Paraphilias are learned I believe, and the APA should have never normalized them. No different than sexual orientation to animals.


35 posted on 05/23/2012 10:15:44 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Spiritual vacuum can set the stage for such temptation. Some people do not believe there is a demon world; I do.


36 posted on 05/23/2012 10:22:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou, let me ABOs run loose! They are of much use Lou, so let me ABOs run loose)
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To: MindBender26

The kid gets a Darwin Award.


37 posted on 05/23/2012 10:45:45 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: MindBender26

Such a sad story. I would be destroyed if my one little daughter wanted to be a boy after having 3 boys and my wife and I praying so hard to have a little girl for our fourth child. These poor parents already had a girl and boy and now this child doesn’t believe she is a girl. What an awful situation. My daughter is the age of this little girl and plays with trucks with her 3 older brothers but she knows that she is a girl and loves being one....THANK GOD!!!!


38 posted on 05/24/2012 3:40:59 AM PDT by napscoordinator (VOTE FOR NEWT!!!!)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
We’re on a slippery slope.
We have normalized homosexuality. Then the homosexual community embraced “LGBT”, meaning lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, and transgendered.
Now we are on the road to normalizing the “T” in LGBT.
And we’re not going to say that this “trans” issue is something for adults to deal with, now we’re saying that children as young as 2 can declare themselves to be the other sex.
And we’re saying that good liberal parents are supposed to go along and enable these kids in this matter.
The whole tone of this article is so sickeningly liberal. Society is intolerant and all that. What will people say? We’re supposed to worry about how these parents are going to explain to people the sex identity of their child, and how difficult this is for them.
Well, our culture has pretty much normalized homosexuality. Now we’re on to other sexual problems. But they aren’t problems, they aren’t mental conditions anymore. No, they are just the way people are, and society at large is too bigotoed/intolerant/uneducated to understand that their child with a vag wants to be a boy. All areas of society which are structured around male and female are expected to bend over backwards to make these parents happy. That’s our politically correct world.

Two points.
1. I have a gay guy do my nails; he's fabulous at it. HE wishes that he had been straight. I looked at him in a puzzled way. He said: "I would have liked to have had children, a regular family."
HE didn't "normalize" it. He can't be unique in his feelings.
I don't normalize it and neither do my friends. It's abysmally abnormal! God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

2. Years ago I wondered just HOW MANY people we were talking about when encompassing homo/bi/transsexual people. I asked around and the answers varied from 10-25%. I looked it up. ONE - ONE AND A HALF PERCENT of the human race is homo/bi/transsexual. THAT is all. Look it up yourself.
ALL THIS HOO-HA for 1-1 1/2%! Amazing. It's like the HOO-HA for the miniscule amounts of American Indians.

39 posted on 05/24/2012 7:44:07 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: HiTech RedNeck
For girls to be “tomboys” is common enough and does not presage any permanent gender dysphoria. If she wants to wear overalls and play with toy trucks and GI Joes and disdains Barbies and tea parties, well enough. She’ll probably find the right cowboy “pardner” for her when she comes to that age. But for her to insist she’s a boy... and not be kidding or joking... please pardon me but I wonder if the parents set this up with oddball shrinks.

I smell a rat too. The whole thing stinks of the parents and the media digging where there AIN'T nuthin'.
I don't believe it.

40 posted on 05/24/2012 7:47:38 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: CitizenUSA

No, it wasn’t a tranSEXUAL (I refuse to use a bogus word) book.

It was claimed to be some random book and the girl pretended to read a story. Her own story, made up, using the book as a prop.

Of course, all of this could be nonsense, including the stories of the girl “insisting” she is a boy. Maybe she’s just a tomboy who made some bold statements without much meaning.

If my child did that, I’d probably ignore it for a while. Little kids say lots of things they don’t even get. My boy had a (very brief) habit with “I hate (you, that, dog, etc)”. I was shocked, but asked where he got this and why he would say it (he never yells, but would do it often with an intensity that evoked that emotion). I told him how mean that word is to anyone, especially me and Daddy who are hurt, and would he like it if I said it back. He may have picked it up from another older boy at day care, at least he blames him for most everything. He stopped doing that in the month.


41 posted on 05/24/2012 2:07:08 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Good catch. I try to be accurate in my posts, and the article says it was a random book. I’ve seen children play read like this myself. Thanks!


42 posted on 05/24/2012 4:33:08 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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