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Hawaii's Non-Certification
5-23-12 | butterdezillion

Posted on 05/24/2012 8:20:21 AM PDT by butterdezillion

What the Hawaii AG forced Bennett to do to his request for verification:

1. Withdraw the whole form he submitted. Because the form had no special directions, HRS 338-14.3 would require the HDOH to verify the accurate, legally-probative facts, and HI can't do that for Obama because his birth record is late and amended - and thus not legally probative as per HRS 338-17.

2. Keep the request for verification that asked the HDOH to verify what is on Obama's birth record. The HDOH can do that without claiming that any of those CLAIMS on the BC are actuallly accurate or legally valid.

3. Change the request from asking for verification that what Obama posted online is a "true and accurate representation of the record on file" - to asking if the INFORMATION on what Obama posted matches what is on file. This is necessary because what Obama posted is an ABSTRACT or composite of what is typed (the incomplete BC) and what is "actually written down" (the affidavits to support the late and amended filing). And it lacks the notations that it was late and amended.

This is why they had to C&P the document. The stamps on the real thing (the non-forged version, if they have one, at the HDOh) would have filled the empty space toward the top of the BC, and the notation of what evidence was submitted to support the late filing and amendment were right in the area where the seal was supposed to go.

I'd post the article which shows the documentation, but I don't know how to post a PDF. And I'd try to get this as a blogger post that serves as a new article in the special category in News/Acivism as per the new policy, but I don't know how to do that either. I'll ask for help from the mods.

In the first comment I'll give a clickable link to the article showing the documentation.

TOPICS: FReeper Editorial
KEYWORDS: barrysoebarkah; bennett; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; eligibility; hawaii; indonesia; kenya; naturalborncitizen; verification
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1 posted on 05/24/2012 8:20:33 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

2 posted on 05/24/2012 8:23:40 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

3 posted on 05/24/2012 8:26:37 AM PDT by BO Stinkss
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To: Hotlanta Mike; TheCipher; little jeremiah; bitt; STARWISE; onyx; edge919; Fantasywriter; ...

Ping. Probably the most important thing the HI AG got Bennett to change about his request was to withdraw the request form he submitted (the one asking for the place of birth, date of birth, mother, father, etc). See why that had to be withdrawn even though the “additional requests for verification” were accepted verbatim (for the list of items to be verified as on the birth record) and in a “re-worded” version (requesting verification as to the status of Obama’s posted long-form).

4 posted on 05/24/2012 8:33:11 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

The way I look at the situation, Hawaii adamantly refused to provide the original copy, microfilmed or not, but did verify correctness of the information that was on the Obama-released BC. I am not a lawyer, but it seems like that leaves HDOH individuals subject to charges related to fraud and perjury, assuming that you believe that Obama’s true nativity narrative excludes the possibility of Hawaiian birth.

5 posted on 05/24/2012 8:36:03 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: LucyT; Brown Deer; null and void


6 posted on 05/24/2012 8:37:47 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: Fractal Trader

They refused to verify the correctness. They would only verify that those claims were on the record they have.

That’s why the form Ken submitted had to be withdrawn; it would have required them to verify the correctness.

And that’s why the special verification list was allowed to stand and be responded to: it only required them to verify that the claims were on the actual record they have - NOT the correctness of those claims. Onaka’s certifying statement makes clear that they are only verifying that those are the CLAIMS on the record.

However, Hawaii does still have to explain why Virginia Sunahara’s BC# is on Barack Obama’s record... I explained at

(post 241) how they presumably edited the records for both Sunahara and Obama to pull that off at least once before.

7 posted on 05/24/2012 8:43:33 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
The fact enough American's do not DEMAND Obama show absolute proof of his eligibility and other records is just tragic apathy!

We still have no conclusive evidence of who Obama really is, but one thing we know for sure, he is Anti-American!

8 posted on 05/24/2012 8:48:08 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Freedom is not free.)
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To: BO Stinkss

Is there a sign like that in Hawaii?

BO claims hawaii, but Kenya claims obama.

Even Arkansas claims Bill Clinton.

9 posted on 05/24/2012 8:49:55 AM PDT by Texas resident (November 6 - Vote Against obama)
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To: Fractal Trader

Thanks for pinging. =)

The thing about these alterations is that the HI AG would have no legal basis to require those changes - ESPECIALLY the requirement that Bennett withdraw the request form, because that is what he is legally supposed to be able to ask for: verification that those particular facts are true according to legal evidentiary standards.

There would be no legal excuse for the HI AG’s office to demand that to be withdrawn. The HI AG clearly used a threat: if you don’t withdraw that request we’re going to say you aren’t eligible to get a response from us, and then you’re going to be grilled over a media fire.

He played chicken with Bennett. And Bennett blinked. BUT at the same time, the HI AG made it clear to Bennett - and to anybody who understands what really happened - that they CANNOT verify the truth of those facts, because Obama’s record is late and amended and thus not legally valid. The special requests of verification provided an “out” for the HDOH to APPEAR to be verifying the information without actuallly legally doing so.

IOW, it took 8 weeks to come up with a win-win for both Bennett (who wanted to satisfy those pressuring him without actually having to leave Obama off the ballot) and the HDOH (who wanted to appear to verify the claims in the court of public opinion, without having anything LEGAL that Arpaio could eventually charge them with).

10 posted on 05/24/2012 8:50:19 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

Thank you.

Add Bennett to the list - He now must now that the request changed from “verify that these elements are true and correct” to “verify that these elements match with some of the records on file” (but those records may not be true and correct).

Bennett knows how hard HI pushed to make this change, and he knows that if he had persisted *more* smear articles would have been coming from the likes of WaPo. (They wrote published an article the day before he accepted the revised language mocking him for even asking HI for email verification.)

11 posted on 05/24/2012 9:01:23 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: butterdezillion

But, as a non-lawyer, I think they are still open for charges of fraud, conspiracy, and possibly perjury despite all the legalistic shenanigans that they pulled. So Bennet can say he is happy and avoid further criticism that he is a “birther,” but Sheriff Joe, who has representatives on the ground in Hawaii as we speak, can make the HHDOH officials quite uncomfortable.

He has indicated that he will be taking a significant new step soon (end of May? end of June?). I would hope that this would involve criminal charges, though I see how it might involve a Grand Jury, also.

BTW, I have looked at all your material regarding why the certificate is amended, and still find the argument hard to follow. It seems that the gist of it is that if there are cash receipts involved, the certificate MUST be amended. When I read the HDOH statements, I wonder if they explicitly knew that they were confirming that there were receipts or whether they made a statement without consciously believing that they had indicated that the receipts existed.

Do you have any other independent confirmation that the BC is amended?

12 posted on 05/24/2012 9:06:54 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: Fractal Trader; Berlin_Freeper; Hotlanta Mike; Silentgypsy; repubmom; HANG THE EXPENSE; Nepeta; ...

13 posted on 05/24/2012 9:09:21 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Fractal Trader

Miss Ticly specifically asked them to clarify which records they were denying access to and they said all of them.

She also asked Linden Joesting at the OIP to correct her if her interpretations were incorrect. Joesting initially responded by saying she was working on it, but then suddenly said she was too busy to address it. If they had been able to say that her interpretation was wrong they’d have done it in a heartbeat.

And a similar denial of access to supporting affidavits was given by both the HDOH AND CONFIRMED AS THE CORRECT RESPONSE by OIP Director Paul Tsukiyama, who actually literally wrote the book on how UIPA requests must be responded to.

I realize that the ins and outs of the bureaucratic stuff gets hazy. But that’s why stuff like the tampering with Virginia’s database record - and now this blatant evasion of having to verify the genuine lelgally-probative facts are so critical and interesting.

Just wrap your head around the fact that they wouldn’t verify that Obama’s posted long-form was a true and accurate REPRESENTATION of the record they have on file. They’d say that the info was the same on both but not that it was an accurate and true representation. That means there was additional information on what they have, that was not on what Obama posted. And that would have to be stamps and notations, because everything else that is required to be on that form was on what Obama posted.

This latest “verification” is a hugh and series expose’ of what’s REALLY going on, and it strongly supports Obama’s BC being amended and late.

14 posted on 05/24/2012 9:21:31 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Triple

Yes, at this point Bennett would have to know what was going on, if he has any sense at all.

And for him to be pressuring Arpaio to end the criminal investigation suggests that either he sides with what he knows is the “bad guys”, or he’s afraid to stand up to the “bad guys”, or he’s been threatened by the “bad guys” to try to get the good guys off their tails.

15 posted on 05/24/2012 9:26:13 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
IMO, Bennett from his first wimpy request for verification, not certification, was a GOP-e/Romney operative looking for a fig leaf to put over his refusal to remove Barry from the AZ ballot, despite Arpaio’s “probable cause.”

HI DOH tried to ignore Bennett's softball to run out the clock, which they HAD TO, because, as you show, even Bennett's easy pitch would have required an affirmation that the forged pdf image was authentic. But cries of “foul” in AZ and “impending further damaging revelations” by Arpaio prompted Bennett to ask HDOH “what will it take” to get a minimal “verification”?

Only Arpaio and Corsi can save the nation before the election.

Arpaio says even tracked down the original 1961 HI BC registrar (U. K. L. Lee?...must be over 80 years old, I would guess) but the registrar refused to cooperate (senile or threatened?). If Arpaio’s team found him/her, who else have they tried to depose? I hope Corsi’s mole in HDOH, the mole Corsi claims to have tipped him off to the impending forgery prior to April 27, 2011, makes a deposition.

16 posted on 05/24/2012 9:40:01 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp

Do you have a link for what Arpaio has said?

If the local registrar listed on the BC is refusing to cooperate in a criminal investigation, that speaks volumes. I know that someone spoke to her within the last half-year or so and she was very “cooperative” (and not senile)...

17 posted on 05/24/2012 9:46:19 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion
Here Butter about 45 secs into the news clip broadcast.

Video - Joe Arpaio's Cold Case Posse in Hawaii ("If I Have to Send Ten Deputies...To HI, I'll Do It")

18 posted on 05/24/2012 10:05:28 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

Sheriffs, especially county sheriffs in the United States have extraordinary powers and latitude which dates back to provisions under English Common Law. IOW Don’t mess with Smokey! Go JOE!

19 posted on 05/24/2012 10:35:50 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Red Steel

Thanks! I love it!

20 posted on 05/24/2012 10:46:22 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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