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Four simple truths about Florida's Zimmerman-Martin case that aren't being discussed by the media
Buckeye Firerams Association ^ | 25 May, 2012 | Don Kates

Posted on 05/26/2012 4:43:00 AM PDT by marktwain

The shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman has been the subject of enormous confusion, not only because the facts are not entirely clear, but more because of public misunderstanding of the relevant law. I hope the following will help clarify things.

1. IT'S NOT THE JOB OF THE POLICE TO INTERRUPT CRIMES AND DEFEND CITIZENS.

The police exist to do two things ONLY: patrol thereby deterring crime; and investigating already-committed crimes to apprehend the perpetrators. The police cannot be expected to interrupt crime and defend citizens. This is because police are rarely around when criminals strike. The statistics on apprehension of criminals show that in less than 5% of cases does that happen while the crime is in progress. In many more cases the police arrive AFTER the crime has occurred and literally chase down the criminal. In many more cases yet the police arrive AFTER the crime has occurred and only make an arrest days or weeks later during which time investigation has identified some particular person as the criminal.

Because the police have no general duty to defend victims, by either statute or common law in EVERY STATE the police are immune from suit by victims who claim the police should have defended them. In no state are police liable even if they negligently fail to defend victims – because they have the duty ONLY to patrol and to apprehend after the crime, not to defend victims.

If you want to be defended from crimes you prepare to defend yourselves! If you want to defend your neighborhood, you organize a neighborhood watch like the one of which Zimmerman was a captain. (It was pursuant to his duty as captain that Zimmerman surveilled Martin, whom he saw as a suspicious character.)

2. IT WAS TO PROTECT ZIMMERMAN, NOT MARTIN, THAT POLICE DISCLAIMED ANY REQUEST TO FOLLOW MARTIN.

Why did the police dispatcher to whom Zimmerman reported Martin tell Zimmerman not to follow him further? [See caveat below] Because if she had not the Department might have been sued by Zimmerman or his surviving relatives. The dispatcher could reasonably have anticipated what Zimmerman claims did happen: that Martin attacked him, knocking him down, beating him about the face – thereby breaking his nose – and repeatedly smashing his head into the cement. Had Zimmerman not had a gun he might have been even more seriously injured or killed.

And guess who could have been sued for that? The police! They would not have been liable for failing to defend Zimmerman. But they would be liable for any injury Zimmerman suffered from following Martin pursuant to police approval. Telling Zimmerman not to follow Martin assured that police would not be held liable to Zimmerman for in any way authorizing or condoning his pursuit of Martin.

[CAVEAT: based on the transcript, the police did NOT tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin; they just disclaimed any request that he do so.]

3. ZIMMERMAN HAD A PERFECT RIGHT TO OBSERVE AND FOLLOW MARTIN ON PUBLIC STREETS.

The police have absolutely no special authority either themselves to observe or follow people on the public streets or to authorize or forbid others doing so. The law is that everyone has the right to observe or follow anyone else on the public streets. That is the only reason the police have the right to do so. Just like – and no more than – George Zimmerman had the right to observe or follow Martin on the public streets.

4. IRRELEVANCE OF "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAWS

Unfortunately news media coverage of this shooting has grossly mis-portrayed both the facts and law, thereby dragging in legal issues that have no relevance at all. News reports have consistently misled the public into thinking the case involves some unique recent Florida "stand your ground" law which protects victims who have stood their ground to defend themselves against attackers.

In fact, both the facts on which both sides agree and the allegations on which they disagree preclude application of any aspect of the "stand your ground" law: If, as the shooter claims, Martin rushed up behind him, knocked him down and was sitting on his chest beating him, retreat was impossible. Conversely, if as Martin's advocates claim, Martin posed no threat to Zimmerman and was wantonly shot down, Zimmerman committed murder. Under no view of these conflicting allegations is it relevant that Florida law allows a victim to stand his ground when attacked.

Moreover the "stand your ground" rule has been the majority rule among American states for over 200 years. It is true that a new statute endorsing the "stand your ground" rule has recently been adopted by twenty-five of our fifty states. But this statute makes no difference since almost all of those states – and the rest of the states -- had long endorsed the "stand your ground" principle. To reiterate, immunity from prosecution for standing your ground and defending yourself when attached has been the majority American law for centuries. In addition to the 25 states that have recently enacted the NRA statute, another seven states have earlier statutes applying "stand your ground" to situations outside the home, such as in vehicles or places of employment. Other states long ago adopted "stand your ground" by judge-made law.

Don Kates is a retired American professor of constitutional and criminal law, and a criminologist and research fellow with The Independent Institute in Oakland, California. His books include Armed: New Perspectives On Gun Control, Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, Firearms and Violence: Issues of Public Policy, and The Great American Gun Debate: Essays on Firearms and Violence. As a civil liberties lawyer he has represented gun owners attacking the constitutionality of certain firearms laws.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; georgezimmerman; martin; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
I have met Don Kates. He is a deep thinker on the Constitution and gun control. His book, Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, was seminal in changing the debate on gun control.
1 posted on 05/26/2012 4:43:16 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
"it is a ``fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.''

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981). "


2 posted on 05/26/2012 5:02:09 AM PDT by ex91B10 (We've tried the Soap Box,the Ballot Box and the Jury Box; one box left.)
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To: marktwain

There is only one question here. Did Zimmerman have the opportunity to retreat and avoid serious injury or possible death once Martin was on top of him beating his head on the ground? If the answer to that question is “no”, there is no crime here.

By the way, the answer to that question is “no”.


3 posted on 05/26/2012 5:04:33 AM PDT by Haiku Guy ("The problem with Internet Quotes is that you never know if they are real" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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To: marktwain
The police will always be there in time to draw the chalk line around your dead body.

YOU, and only you, are responsible for your own defense.

4 posted on 05/26/2012 5:16:05 AM PDT by evad (STOP SPENDING, STOP SPENDING, STOP SPENDING. It's the SPENDING Stupid)
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To: marktwain

In many more cases the police arrive AFTER the crime has occurred and literally chase down the criminal.

....unless the crime occurs at a Dunkin Donuts!


5 posted on 05/26/2012 5:17:14 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: Recon Dad

All cops do is write traffic tickets and hang toe tags.


6 posted on 05/26/2012 5:36:27 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: evad

What’s that famous line about self-defense .....”WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY...”


7 posted on 05/26/2012 5:56:27 AM PDT by john drake (Roman military maxim; "oderint dum metuant," i.e., "let them hate, as long as they fear.")
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To: marktwain
I've been wondering what the heck “stand your ground” had to do with this situation. It seems to be liberal MSM talking points rather than anything germane to this situation.
8 posted on 05/26/2012 6:09:17 AM PDT by Poser (Cogito ergo Spam - I think, therefore I ham)
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To: Haiku Guy

The author missed two points I would have liked him to touch upon. First, stand your ground laws often protect the person claiming it from civil suit. Second, the prosecution may decide to say that Martin was employing stand your ground protection from Zimmerman because Zimmerman appeared to be a threat to Martin thus making Martin afraid for his life.
p>
I’d wish this first point would protect Zimmerman, period. He shouldn’t be civilly liable regardless if he could retreat or not. Regarding the second point, I wouldn’t put it past the prosecution to pull such a stunt.


9 posted on 05/26/2012 6:20:07 AM PDT by CH3CN (A stitch in time is worth two in the bush.)
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To: evad

“The police will always be there in time to draw the chalk line around your dead body.”

I like that.


10 posted on 05/26/2012 6:28:22 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: marktwain

BTTT


11 posted on 05/26/2012 6:32:37 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: marktwain

But how else are they gonna justify looting flat screens and sneakers?


12 posted on 05/26/2012 6:33:09 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: CH3CN

“The author missed two points I would have liked him to touch upon.”

I see one truth missed:

5. YOU MUST NOT DISPARAGE ONE OF HOLDER’S PEOPLE (like Trayvon).


13 posted on 05/26/2012 6:40:26 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: marktwain
Sorry, the real central issues not being discussed by the media are

(1) How the attorneys of the Marin family are trying to set up the situation to maximize their chance of a civil lawsuit Loto-like payment.

(2) How this simple incident fit into desired anti-gun and pro-class warfare agendas of political leaders of the Democratic party during an election year.

14 posted on 05/26/2012 6:44:27 AM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: Robert357
"(1) How the attorneys of the Marin family are trying to set up the situation to maximize their chance of a civil lawsuit Loto-like payment."

I've read that that was why they were so desperate to get Zimmerman arrested - as a key element in a later, civil case. My question is: who do you think will be the "deep pockets" they ultimately go after? It certainly can't be Zimmerman; so do you think they may try for the gun manufacturer? I just don't see how Martin's ambulance-chasing attorneys hope to cash in on this case - unless this is more for political, anti-concealed carry objectives.

15 posted on 05/26/2012 7:03:40 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Dusty Road
“The police will always be there in time to draw the chalk line around your dead body.”

I like that.

And pick up the brass ---

16 posted on 05/26/2012 7:58:13 AM PDT by imardmd1 (I may not always be free, but usually reasonable.)
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To: Flag_This

“who do you think will be the “deep pockets” they ultimately go after? “

The HMO.


17 posted on 05/26/2012 8:11:28 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Flag_This

>>>My question is: who do you think will be the “deep pockets” they ultimately go after? <<<

Most likely the insurance company for the condo association and the city of Sanford for not training the Neigborhood Watch folks enough.


18 posted on 05/26/2012 8:19:58 AM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
“who do you think will be the “deep pockets” they ultimately go after? “

The HMO.

Maybe if the HMO had treated Trayvon properly, he wouldn't have died, huh? It must be just a ploy to get Obamacare.

As someone said elsewhere, typos are fun sometimes. :-)

19 posted on 05/26/2012 8:24:45 AM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: MikeSteelBe

OK, you got me there. Amend above post to reflect three (3) things the author missed. Thanks - my head was in the sand for just a moment there.


20 posted on 05/26/2012 8:48:54 AM PDT by CH3CN (A stitch in time is worth two in the bush.)
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To: Aunt Polgara

“As someone said elsewhere, typos are fun sometimes. :-)”

What butthead said that? Oh,,,, wait! Nevermind!
I quit drinking coffee, tea just ain’t the same! Home Owner’s Association, of course! The assessments could be horrific! Move out now!


21 posted on 05/26/2012 8:53:10 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Flag_This
My question is: who do you think will be the "deep pockets" they ultimately go after?

Well... somebody has been paying for them to fly all around the planet and make 'appearances'.

22 posted on 05/26/2012 11:25:14 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: john drake

I noticed your tag line and thought you’d appreciate this one..........

“A man’s greatest work is to break his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all the things that have been theirs, to hear the weeping of those who cherished them.”
Genghis Khan


23 posted on 05/27/2012 3:12:12 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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