Skip to comments.ATF to accept public comments prior to outlawing shotguns (Apr 18, 2011)
Posted on 05/26/2012 8:30:05 PM PDT by Red Steel
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is taking a rare step of allowing public comments prior to issuing a decision on a study that could result in outlawing certain types of shotguns currently available to citizens.
The ATF completed a study regarding the importability of certain shotguns. The basis for a possible ban is based on a loosely defined Sporting Purpose test. Using the vague definition almost all pump-action and semi-automatic shotguns could be banned as they are all capable of accepting a magazine, box or tube capable of holding more than 5 rounds. Other characteristics determined to be military by the ATF can also be used as a basis for a ban.
Ironically, many shotguns with military features are currently being used in shooting competitions held by the USPSA, IDPA and IPSC. The rules could also result in obscure regulations where an individual would be unsure if he is violating them or not.
Dudley Brown, Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, said if the ATF succeeds with the banning of tactical shotguns it will be the most dangerous interpretation of the 1968 Gun Control Act ever envisioned and will outlaw thousands of perfectly legitimate home defense shotguns.
The ATF is currently allowing public comments on the study until the end of the month. Those wishing to express concerns about the study can send an email to firstname.lastname@example.org
This is definitely a way to ban the saiga 12. With it’s 20 drum mag it’s awesome. It certainly would come in handy when confronted by a Urban “flash Mob”.
Queue up the “Jeez, not this crap again” poster.
Do You remember the street sweeper? They managed to ban it and anyone who owned one and did not have a class 3 was suddenly S.O.L. I was going to buy a street sweeper and I’m glad I didn’t.
WHen will the ATF get around to banning your everyday Pump Shotgun.A weapon like the Remington 870.I’m sure they’ll get around to banning any weapon that can load 3 rounds or more.
This way the government can just turn us into all into felons for using our second amendment rights.They can claim any weapon is or looks like a military weapon.Part of Obama’s plan to overthrow our government and turn our country into a Communist/Muslim hell hole.
I am not turning one damned shotgun into them.
“When will the ATF get around to banning your everyday Pump Shotgun.A weapon like the Remington 870.Im sure theyll get around to banning any weapon that can load 3 rounds or more.”
Screw on an extended mag tube and voila, it falls under the definition from the article.
“And that was defeated long ago.”
Thanks to the Counter-Revolution of 2010;) In November, let us drive the REST of those devilish Communist MF’ers from power!
Here’s my favorite. ROFL! Notice how serious the dude is.
Burning AK47 - 300 Rounds & on Fire
Un- fricking believable. The most available guns with the best stopping power.
An extended mag tube is only practical on a long-barreled shotgun. They claim their objective is to ban tactical shotguns. Why would anyone choose a long-barreled shotgun as a tactical weapon?
They’re working on reliable 30 round drums for it now. I’d suggest that you have a GripPod or other bipod for it at that point because it starts being kind of heavy.
I actually like the 12 round drums that are out for it now better than the 20s. The weapon balance is better.
Yes, maintaining the most conservative possible Congress is of utmost importance. Thanks.
This was shot down (no pun intended) last year.
Our guys snuck in a “Go ahead, try it, we’ll take your funding if you do” clause in a bill Obama had to sign.
I have 8 rounds in a LEGAL short barreled shotgun.
How hard was that?
The new TriStar holds five in the tube and one in the pipe.
Minimum length is 18”, most pump shotguns of that length only have a 5 round tube mag. But most 20” guns have an 8 round tube mag - see Mossberg 590 for an example. That’s not terribly overlong for tactical use.
Here’s a 30 round mag for the Saiga 12.
“An extended mag tube is only practical on a long-barreled shotgun. They claim their objective is to ban tactical shotguns. Why would anyone choose a long-barreled shotgun as a tactical weapon? “
A 24-26” barrel isn’t that unwieldy. The mere fact that one can be screwed on virtually any pump gun or autoloader is all these dirt bags need for an excuse to ban them.
Hmm. How short is "short", and 8 rounds of what?
I count a round at 3".
Q: Since when did the ATF have legislative power, let alone power to violate the Constitution?
A: Since they were extra-Constitutionally founded, and with obastard in office, they aren’t even pretending not to be the Gestapo (except in name).
Any ATF lurkers: yes, that’s what the organization you work for has become. Hope you enjoy your 30 pieces of silver...
BTW, how many Freepers know civilians can’t buy double ought buckshot in Californai? But you can buy deer slugs.
So for home defense, your choices are useless birdshot of slugs that will rip through buildings.
God I hate living in California.
Most 12ga rounds are 2 3/4”, not 3”.
Yes, but reliability on those is spotty per reports. But yes, drums do seem to be the way to go on those - though MD Arms (the guy who made the first reliable 20 rd drum for the S12 that didn’t require you to hack up the gun) is now working on a reliable double stack stick mag for the weapon.
Then why stay? I pulled the eject handles on CA back in 95, don’t regret it.
Long story. Short version: I didn’t “stay.” I just moved here for a 300% raise. And I needed the cash. But I’m seriously reconsidering.
How much money is your right to self defense worth?
How much money is your right to free expression worth?
How much money is your dignity, pride and common sense worth?
“God I hate living in California.”
You do know what you can do about such?
“So for home defense, your choices are useless birdshot of slugs that will rip through buildings.”
Birdshot is not useless. Slugs well put do not rip through buildings.
“God I hate living in California.”
Do something about it.
My shotgun is designed for 3" shells. It will accept shorter shells, but I expect it's stated magazine capacity to be for the number of rounds of the longest shell it was designed for.
I've seen short "tactical" 12 gauge rounds designed so that you can get more of them into a tube mag. If they count that as a "round" and you can only have 5, then you probably can't have more than 3 3" rounds.
Good questions. But how much is sucking it up so those who are willing to carry you - and have -don’t have to? I came down on the side of sucking it up and carrying my own weight so they won’t.
Life’s hard. I refuse to make it harder on mine just to make it easier on me.
I would leave California in a minute, but they already have my photo and fingerprints, and even my social security number.
It’s too late for me, but you can help others.
Actually, my point is that most manufacturers list their 12ga magazines’ capacities based on 2 3/4” shells. That’s the standard length. 3” and 3.5” are Magnum shells. Anything less than 2 3/4” is considered 12ga Short these days.
That sounds great in theory, but in reality...I’m stuck in MA, and until I graduate college, I’ll continue to be stuck. The bottom line is that I simply do not have enough dollars to relocate.
I also suggest you re-read your owner’s manual for whatever arm you have.
You chose your college... poorly. /indianajones
Five 3" shells is 15", and then you have to allow for the spring.
I'd think a 24" barrel would support at most a 6 round magazine. After that you have to start lengthing the barrel in 3" increments for every additional round.
Again, 2 3/4” is the standard size for a 12ga to chamber, not 3”.
Well, I chose it because its the only one I can afford to attend and drive to. I didn’t choose to live in Massachusetts, I ended up here when I was 10.
“I would leave California in a minute, but they already have my photo and fingerprints, and even my social security number.
Its too late for me, but you can help others.”
Come to a state where you can register to vote as a nobody. Your ‘number’ is as good as the next person’s. Don’t get arrested and ‘they’ do not have your finger prints. Even if ‘they’ did, you could still vote. Bet you could absentee vote in a number of states right now.
Do you have one of those California ankle trackers on? if not, you are the only reason for remaining in your state.
“Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms’’ should be a Convince store
If 2 3/4 inches is a "round", that's fine. Someone else said they had an 8 round magazine on a short-barreled shotgun.
I suspect those are the 12ga Short variety. But does that count as a "round"? If it does, then will they start regulating magazines according to how many of those it will hold?
Unfortunately I can't afford to get back to the Texas coast, so I will be somewhere short of that.
“That sounds great in theory, but in reality...Im stuck in MA, and until I graduate college, Ill continue to be stuck. The bottom line is that I simply do not have enough dollars to relocate.”
BS! Yer an idiot/tool/brainwashed if you believe that your own two legs cannot start walking and find you a REAL job to put food in your mouth.
I've read and heard from several sources that #4 buckshot is the best balance of stopping power / wall penetration for home defense.
Is that still available in California?
But, banning any load is reason enough to hate California.
I don't think they give a rat's patootie what size is the standard.
They simply want to pass legislation that an X amount of shells is not acceptable in that scattergun.
Then they will simply tweak for less and less capacity, until only single shot shooters will be tolerated, then only muzzle loaders.They simply wish to remove firearms from people like....you!
I fully expect to get the hell out of the northeast as soon as I possibly can, which isn't now. The days when you can up and go and make your own way without any kind of preperation are gone, courtesy of Barack Obama and others.
And may I ask where you live, what you do for a living, and whether or not you have a degree or some kind of training in what you do.
I just checked, the Walmart stores that sell ammo carry it in California.