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ATF to accept public comments prior to outlawing shotguns (Apr 18, 2011)
Greeley Gazette ^ | Apr 18, 2011 | Jack Minor

Posted on 05/26/2012 8:30:05 PM PDT by Red Steel

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1 posted on 05/26/2012 8:30:08 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

This is definitely a way to ban the saiga 12. With it’s 20 drum mag it’s awesome. It certainly would come in handy when confronted by a Urban “flash Mob”.


2 posted on 05/26/2012 8:41:54 PM PDT by BBell (until)
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To: Red Steel

Queue up the “Jeez, not this crap again” poster.


3 posted on 05/26/2012 8:41:59 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: facedown

Do You remember the street sweeper? They managed to ban it and anyone who owned one and did not have a class 3 was suddenly S.O.L. I was going to buy a street sweeper and I’m glad I didn’t.


4 posted on 05/26/2012 8:56:27 PM PDT by BBell (until)
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To: Red Steel

WHen will the ATF get around to banning your everyday Pump Shotgun.A weapon like the Remington 870.I’m sure they’ll get around to banning any weapon that can load 3 rounds or more.

This way the government can just turn us into all into felons for using our second amendment rights.They can claim any weapon is or looks like a military weapon.Part of Obama’s plan to overthrow our government and turn our country into a Communist/Muslim hell hole.


5 posted on 05/26/2012 9:11:23 PM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: Red Steel

I am not turning one damned shotgun into them.


6 posted on 05/26/2012 9:14:32 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Red Steel
Article from "Apr 18, 2011"

And that was defeated long ago. But go ahead and buy several as an "investment." Many "tacticool" firearms will be very cheap after the bond collapse. It is funny, though, watching young civilians melt those bores in Youtube videos.


7 posted on 05/26/2012 9:14:49 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: puppypusher

“When will the ATF get around to banning your everyday Pump Shotgun.A weapon like the Remington 870.I’m sure they’ll get around to banning any weapon that can load 3 rounds or more.”

Screw on an extended mag tube and voila, it falls under the definition from the article.


8 posted on 05/26/2012 9:17:32 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (Liberalism: Carrying adolescent values and behavior into adult life.)
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To: familyop

“And that was defeated long ago.”

Thanks to the Counter-Revolution of 2010;) In November, let us drive the REST of those devilish Communist MF’ers from power!


9 posted on 05/26/2012 9:19:56 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: Red Steel

Here’s my favorite. ROFL! Notice how serious the dude is.

Burning AK47 - 300 Rounds & on Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c


10 posted on 05/26/2012 9:21:42 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Red Steel

Un- fricking believable. The most available guns with the best stopping power.


11 posted on 05/26/2012 9:22:13 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot.)
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To: headstamp 2
Screw on an extended mag tube and voila, it falls under the definition from the article.

An extended mag tube is only practical on a long-barreled shotgun. They claim their objective is to ban tactical shotguns. Why would anyone choose a long-barreled shotgun as a tactical weapon?

12 posted on 05/26/2012 9:24:11 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: BBell

They’re working on reliable 30 round drums for it now. I’d suggest that you have a GripPod or other bipod for it at that point because it starts being kind of heavy.

I actually like the 12 round drums that are out for it now better than the 20s. The weapon balance is better.


13 posted on 05/26/2012 9:25:44 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Frank_2001

Yes, maintaining the most conservative possible Congress is of utmost importance. Thanks.


14 posted on 05/26/2012 9:25:48 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: grumpygresh

This was shot down (no pun intended) last year.

http://www.examiner.com/article/blocked-funding-for-atf-s-planned-shotgun-import-ban-already-paying-dividends

Our guys snuck in a “Go ahead, try it, we’ll take your funding if you do” clause in a bill Obama had to sign.


15 posted on 05/26/2012 9:29:02 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Red Steel
ATF Director Bernard Fife:
16 posted on 05/26/2012 9:29:22 PM PDT by tumblindice (Our new, happy lives.)
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To: tacticalogic
An extended mag tube is only practical on a long-barreled shotgun.

I have 8 rounds in a LEGAL short barreled shotgun.

How hard was that?

/johnny

17 posted on 05/26/2012 9:32:21 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Red Steel

Whew!

The new TriStar holds five in the tube and one in the pipe.


18 posted on 05/26/2012 9:34:53 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (FR: Now, More Than Ever.)
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To: tacticalogic

Minimum length is 18”, most pump shotguns of that length only have a 5 round tube mag. But most 20” guns have an 8 round tube mag - see Mossberg 590 for an example. That’s not terribly overlong for tactical use.


19 posted on 05/26/2012 9:35:48 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Here’s a 30 round mag for the Saiga 12.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1vPXTcE5-4


20 posted on 05/26/2012 9:37:20 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: tacticalogic

“An extended mag tube is only practical on a long-barreled shotgun. They claim their objective is to ban tactical shotguns. Why would anyone choose a long-barreled shotgun as a tactical weapon? “

A 24-26” barrel isn’t that unwieldy. The mere fact that one can be screwed on virtually any pump gun or autoloader is all these dirt bags need for an excuse to ban them.


21 posted on 05/26/2012 9:40:59 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (Liberalism: Carrying adolescent values and behavior into adult life.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
I have 8 rounds in a LEGAL short barreled shotgun.

Hmm. How short is "short", and 8 rounds of what?

I count a round at 3".

22 posted on 05/26/2012 9:41:58 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Red Steel

Q: Since when did the ATF have legislative power, let alone power to violate the Constitution?

A: Since they were extra-Constitutionally founded, and with obastard in office, they aren’t even pretending not to be the Gestapo (except in name).

Any ATF lurkers: yes, that’s what the organization you work for has become. Hope you enjoy your 30 pieces of silver...


23 posted on 05/26/2012 9:44:49 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Red Steel

BTW, how many Freepers know civilians can’t buy double ought buckshot in Californai? But you can buy deer slugs.

So for home defense, your choices are useless birdshot of slugs that will rip through buildings.

God I hate living in California.


24 posted on 05/26/2012 9:51:00 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: tacticalogic

Most 12ga rounds are 2 3/4”, not 3”.


25 posted on 05/26/2012 9:51:20 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Yes, but reliability on those is spotty per reports. But yes, drums do seem to be the way to go on those - though MD Arms (the guy who made the first reliable 20 rd drum for the S12 that didn’t require you to hack up the gun) is now working on a reliable double stack stick mag for the weapon.


26 posted on 05/26/2012 9:52:53 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: piytar

Then why stay? I pulled the eject handles on CA back in 95, don’t regret it.


27 posted on 05/26/2012 9:54:20 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Long story. Short version: I didn’t “stay.” I just moved here for a 300% raise. And I needed the cash. But I’m seriously reconsidering.


28 posted on 05/26/2012 9:57:32 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: piytar

How much money is your right to self defense worth?

How much money is your right to free expression worth?

How much money is your dignity, pride and common sense worth?


29 posted on 05/26/2012 10:00:16 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: piytar

“God I hate living in California.”

You do know what you can do about such?

“So for home defense, your choices are useless birdshot of slugs that will rip through buildings.”

Birdshot is not useless. Slugs well put do not rip through buildings.

“God I hate living in California.”

Do something about it.


30 posted on 05/26/2012 10:02:49 PM PDT by Carthego delenda est
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To: Spktyr
Most 12ga rounds are 2 3/4”, not 3”.

My shotgun is designed for 3" shells. It will accept shorter shells, but I expect it's stated magazine capacity to be for the number of rounds of the longest shell it was designed for.

I've seen short "tactical" 12 gauge rounds designed so that you can get more of them into a tube mag. If they count that as a "round" and you can only have 5, then you probably can't have more than 3 3" rounds.

31 posted on 05/26/2012 10:05:48 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Spktyr

Good questions. But how much is sucking it up so those who are willing to carry you - and have -don’t have to? I came down on the side of sucking it up and carrying my own weight so they won’t.

Life’s hard. I refuse to make it harder on mine just to make it easier on me.


32 posted on 05/26/2012 10:08:20 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Carthego delenda est

I would leave California in a minute, but they already have my photo and fingerprints, and even my social security number.

It’s too late for me, but you can help others.


33 posted on 05/26/2012 10:09:18 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: tacticalogic

Actually, my point is that most manufacturers list their 12ga magazines’ capacities based on 2 3/4” shells. That’s the standard length. 3” and 3.5” are Magnum shells. Anything less than 2 3/4” is considered 12ga Short these days.


34 posted on 05/26/2012 10:13:02 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

That sounds great in theory, but in reality...I’m stuck in MA, and until I graduate college, I’ll continue to be stuck. The bottom line is that I simply do not have enough dollars to relocate.


35 posted on 05/26/2012 10:17:58 PM PDT by Copenhagen Smile
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To: tacticalogic

I also suggest you re-read your owner’s manual for whatever arm you have.


36 posted on 05/26/2012 10:18:25 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Copenhagen Smile

You chose your college... poorly. /indianajones


37 posted on 05/26/2012 10:19:45 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: headstamp 2
A 24-26” barrel isn’t that unwieldy.

Five 3" shells is 15", and then you have to allow for the spring.

I'd think a 24" barrel would support at most a 6 round magazine. After that you have to start lengthing the barrel in 3" increments for every additional round.

38 posted on 05/26/2012 10:22:27 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Again, 2 3/4” is the standard size for a 12ga to chamber, not 3”.


39 posted on 05/26/2012 10:24:57 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Well, I chose it because its the only one I can afford to attend and drive to. I didn’t choose to live in Massachusetts, I ended up here when I was 10.


40 posted on 05/26/2012 10:29:34 PM PDT by Copenhagen Smile
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To: ansel12

“I would leave California in a minute, but they already have my photo and fingerprints, and even my social security number.

It’s too late for me, but you can help others.”

Come to a state where you can register to vote as a nobody. Your ‘number’ is as good as the next person’s. Don’t get arrested and ‘they’ do not have your finger prints. Even if ‘they’ did, you could still vote. Bet you could absentee vote in a number of states right now.

Do you have one of those California ankle trackers on? if not, you are the only reason for remaining in your state.


41 posted on 05/26/2012 10:32:00 PM PDT by Carthego delenda est
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To: Red Steel

“Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms’’ should be a Convince store


42 posted on 05/26/2012 10:32:48 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: piytar
BTW, how many Freepers know civilians can’t buy double ought buckshot in Californai?

I searched for such a law prohibiting the purchase of double aught buckshot in CA and I am unable to locate said law. I do not think this is an accurate statement.
43 posted on 05/26/2012 10:35:58 PM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: Spktyr
Actually, my point is that most manufacturers list their 12ga magazines’ capacities based on 2 3/4” shells. That’s the standard length. 3” and 3.5” are Magnum shells. Anything less than 2 3/4” is considered 12ga Short these days.

If 2 3/4 inches is a "round", that's fine. Someone else said they had an 8 round magazine on a short-barreled shotgun.

I suspect those are the 12ga Short variety. But does that count as a "round"? If it does, then will they start regulating magazines according to how many of those it will hold?

44 posted on 05/26/2012 10:39:31 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Carthego delenda est
Actually I'll be leaving soon, sometime this year.

Unfortunately I can't afford to get back to the Texas coast, so I will be somewhere short of that.

45 posted on 05/26/2012 10:40:40 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Copenhagen Smile

“That sounds great in theory, but in reality...I’m stuck in MA, and until I graduate college, I’ll continue to be stuck. The bottom line is that I simply do not have enough dollars to relocate.”

BS! Yer an idiot/tool/brainwashed if you believe that your own two legs cannot start walking and find you a REAL job to put food in your mouth.


46 posted on 05/26/2012 10:40:58 PM PDT by Carthego delenda est
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To: piytar
BTW, how many Freepers know civilians can’t buy double ought buckshot in Californai? But you can buy deer slugs.

I've read and heard from several sources that #4 buckshot is the best balance of stopping power / wall penetration for home defense.

Is that still available in California?

But, banning any load is reason enough to hate California.

47 posted on 05/26/2012 10:45:40 PM PDT by Washi (Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse, one head-shot at a time.)
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To: tacticalogic
If it does, then will they start regulating magazines according to how many of those it will hold?

I don't think they give a rat's patootie what size is the standard.

They simply want to pass legislation that an X amount of shells is not acceptable in that scattergun.

Then they will simply tweak for less and less capacity, until only single shot shooters will be tolerated, then only muzzle loaders.They simply wish to remove firearms from people like....you!

48 posted on 05/26/2012 10:47:54 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Carthego delenda est
Look at the jobless rate among teenagers. What is it now, 50%? What should I do, drop the job I have and go live in a cardboard box? Say screw college and stack cans for the rest of my life? Then I'd be setting myself to have no options for the duration of my stay on this earth.

I fully expect to get the hell out of the northeast as soon as I possibly can, which isn't now. The days when you can up and go and make your own way without any kind of preperation are gone, courtesy of Barack Obama and others.

And may I ask where you live, what you do for a living, and whether or not you have a degree or some kind of training in what you do.

49 posted on 05/26/2012 10:48:17 PM PDT by Copenhagen Smile
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To: Pox; piytar

I just checked, the Walmart stores that sell ammo carry it in California.


50 posted on 05/26/2012 10:48:24 PM PDT by ansel12
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