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Richard Dawkins the arch-atheist backs Michael Gove's free Bible plan (UK)
Guardian, UK ^ | May 19, 2012 | Robin McKie

Posted on 05/27/2012 11:10:52 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo

Author of The God Delusion says providing free Bibles to state schools is justified by its impact on the English language

It sounds like one of the most unlikely alliances of recent years. Richard Dawkins, arch-atheist and scourge of the praying classes, has announced support for education secretary Michael Gove's plan to send free King James Bibles to every state school.

The proposal aims to help pupils learn about the Bible's impact "on our history, language, literature and democracy" and will celebrate the 400th anniversary of the authorised version's publication, Gove said earlier this year. Church leaders have approved, but the plan has fallen foul of most non-believers. An online Guardian poll showed an 82% opposition, while the National Secular Society said the £375,000 proposal wasted money and favoured Christianity in multi-faith state schools. Nevertheless, several rich Tory party donors agreed to back the plan and the first Bibles were sent out last week, to the derision of secularists...

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: atheism; uk
Not even looking at the situation from a religious standpoint, ignoring the King James Bible is akin to cultural suicide for Great Britain.
1 posted on 05/27/2012 11:11:06 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

You have to give him points for rational consistency


2 posted on 05/27/2012 11:18:38 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (I like Obamacare because Granny signed the will and I need the cash)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

At least they picked the best Bible translation


3 posted on 05/27/2012 11:27:21 AM PDT by tellw
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

The really queer thing about a-theism is that it relies on the existence of God. It is the denial of God. In math you can’t teach the null set before you introduce the concept of sets. He needs to promote God in order to guarantee his existence as an atheist.


4 posted on 05/27/2012 11:44:56 AM PDT by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: Calusa
6.51 Scepticism is not irrefutable, but palpably senseless, if it would doubt where a question cannot be asked.

For doubt can only exist where there is a question; a question only where there is an answer, and this only where something can be said.

(Ludwig Wittgenstein)
5 posted on 05/27/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by cartan
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Is Dawkings STILL alive? Geez.


6 posted on 05/27/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Calusa
The really queer thing about a-theism is that it relies on the existence of God. It is the denial of God. In math you can’t teach the null set before you introduce the concept of sets. He needs to promote God in order to guarantee his existence as an atheist.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. That is irrefutable logic.
Dawkins prides himself on his brain and logic but both are IRREFUTABLY flawed if atheism is HIS view of the world.

Yep, he's NUTS!!
That is a technical term. :o)

7 posted on 05/27/2012 11:56:45 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: muir_redwoods

Indeed. The ignorance of the Bible in the modern-day West is astounding. Not only due to its influence on our spirtual and religious lives, but also for its effects on our law, culture, and history.


8 posted on 05/27/2012 11:57:01 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Colonel Kangaroo; cartan; cloudmountain

Finally there is fierce majesty of the Elizabethan language and their sense of expression that pervades every utterance forever in the English language.


9 posted on 05/27/2012 12:18:35 PM PDT by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: Calusa
Finally there is fierce majesty of the Elizabethan language and their sense of expression that pervades every utterance forever in the English language.

English is a dialect of German. The other three European languages were Celtic (dead), Latin and Greek.
"fierce majesty"?? Nothing fierce or majestic about Elizabethan English or any other language. If there was any "fierce majesty" it was due to the SPEAKER of said language. ANY language can be fierce and majestic, depending on how said speaker uses all the tools of said language. I've heard some American speakers that WOWED me. I thought JFK was a fabulous speaker even though his "Chiner" and "Indier" New England accent sometimes annoyed me.

The English DID take their language to the theater in a fabulous way that hasn't been duplicated in any country I've seen or heard of. But, SO MUCH of that fierce majesty was due to Shakespeare and other wonderful poets and authors of England.

The English can't cook worth beans but they can do theater.

10 posted on 05/27/2012 2:03:31 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

If I were a conspiracist, I’d say Dawkins is pushing this because he knows the mooslimbs, who don’t give a rats a** about atheism are getting stronger.


11 posted on 05/27/2012 2:22:13 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: ReformationFan
Indeed. The ignorance of the Bible in the modern-day West is astounding. Not only due to its influence on our spirtual and religious lives, but also for its effects on our law, culture, and history.

There are people of my acquaintance who simply WILL NOT believe that our laws come from the BASIC biblical ten commandments. I ask them, "Well, then, where do they come from?" They think that the Founding Fathers made our laws.
I asked the same question: "Well, then, where did THEY get them from?"
Bottom line: they are SO inculcated with the "miracle" of their own narcissism that they WILL NOT admit the source of all our laws.

I am DISGUSTED with them and do not see ANY of those twits (There are 2 of them.) any more. My life is MEASURABLY better since I made that decision.

12 posted on 05/27/2012 2:30:53 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Colonel Kangaroo; stylecouncilor; windcliff

Thank you Colonel.

s,w ping....


13 posted on 05/27/2012 3:11:14 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: cloudmountain
The other three European languages were Celtic (dead), Latin and Greek.

? you mean language families? Because most European languages except Basque, Hungarian and Finish belong to the main indo-European family and the sub-families under that that are in Europe are Celtic, Italic, Greek, Slavic, Baltic, Germanic and to some extent Iranic (Ossetians) and Indic (possibly some substrata of Roma language)

14 posted on 05/28/2012 1:12:36 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: cloudmountain
The English DID take their language to the theater in a fabulous way that hasn't been duplicated in any country I've seen or heard of.

I would have agreed with you a decade ago. however, this is a common failing of us anglophones not to recognize other language cultures. The Poles and Maharashtrians and Malayalis are three of the peoples I know of that have fabulous theatrical artistry.

15 posted on 05/28/2012 1:18:16 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
I would have agreed with you a decade ago. however, this is a common failing of us anglophones not to recognize other language cultures. The Poles and Maharashtrians and Malayalis are three of the peoples I know of that have fabulous theatrical artistry.

I await, with baited breath, Broadway and London plays and the plethora of movies (from theatrical artistry) that are going to storm our Euro-American airwaves and theaters...from the Poles, Malayalis and Indians.

The Poles and Malayalis are a-comin' with their theatrical artistry!! Someday.
I have had plenty of time to see the garbage movies from India. I think they stink, that is, puerile and monotonous. The women sing with voices like little girls. Stupid. If the Indians like their movies, good for them. I think they are even more stupid than...well, never mind, you get my point.

By the way, I am neither an anglophile or anglophone (whatever that is). I USED to be bilingual in English and Spanish and DID appreciate the theatrical stuff from Spain and south of our border.

16 posted on 05/28/2012 9:23:10 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

“If the King James Bible was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.” I actually heard someone say that in jest, of course.

But, the larger point is that the King James Bible is a mangificent translation of the original sources and represents the pinnacle of English culture and language. It’s one of the greatest classics of all time — as is the Bible in any language.


17 posted on 05/28/2012 9:27:25 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: Cronos
? you mean language families? Because most European languages except Basque, Hungarian and Finish belong to the main indo-European family and the sub-families under that that are in Europe are Celtic, Italic, Greek, Slavic, Baltic, Germanic and to some extent Iranic (Ossetians) and Indic (possibly some substrata of Roma language)

Yes, language families: German, Latin, Greek, Celtic.
I DO realize that the Basque and Hungarian languages DEFY any logic or background and they seem to have erupted all by themselves. Finnish is part of the Baltic family of languages. Italic is Roman. Slavic, Baltic and Russian are from Greek.
The Celts came and went...but left something in their wake. Who knows exactly how much language influence they left. We PROBABLY will never know.

Also I NEVER include the Persians in anything European, no matter HOW MUCH they blather on about being European. They AIN'T to me...and this is MY post. :o)

18 posted on 05/28/2012 11:58:20 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
Basque and Hungarian languages DEFY any logic or background and they seem to have erupted all by themselves

Not really. The Basque language is a language isolate and it is attested in Roman times and earlier. It's a hold-out of an earlier language that existed before indo-europeans came across. There are indications of ties to Dravidian languages, but that is still hypothesis

Magyar and Finnish are part of the same language family -- the Finno-Ugaritic family. The other members of this family are languages in northern Siberia like Yenisian etc.

Finnish and Estonian are not Baltic --> the only representatives of Baltics languages exitent today are Latvian, Lithuanian and Samogitian. The others died out centuries ago

Slavic, Baltic and Russian are from Greek. --> sorry, that is funny. the Slavic an Baltic languages are separate family trees and have nothing in common with Greek.

The Eastern Slavs under the influence of Eastern Orthodoxy took church language from Greek, but most of their Church language and word roots are from Church Slavonic. Western Slavic languages have borrowings from Latin. Yet both have commonalities and cases (dopełniacz, miejscownik, datiw etc.) that are not there in modern Italic or Greek family trees --> they are a separate family

Also I NEVER include the Persians in anything European, -- that is wrong. Irani languages are part of the Indo-European family. These include not only Persian (Farsi), but also Tajik, Ossete and the ancient Sarmation/Scythic languages

19 posted on 05/28/2012 9:02:12 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: cloudmountain
The indo-european family tree is wide

indo-european family

20 posted on 05/28/2012 9:04:10 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: cloudmountain
cm: I await, with baited breath, Broadway and London plays and the plethora of movies (from theatrical artistry) that are going to storm our Euro-American airwaves and theaters...from the Poles, Malayalis and Indians.

Again, you're looking at it from an Anglophone point of view -- why would we show plays in Polish/Marathi/Malayalam?

These 3 have quite in-depth and rich theatre.

you point out the kitsch that is Bollywood films --> you're comparing apples to oranges. What if one compared Shakespeare to a trash Hollywood pic? You said theatre, so talk theatre -- compare the theatre acts in Marathi or Malayalam to theatre on broadway.

21 posted on 05/28/2012 9:07:23 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

Thanks... great information.


22 posted on 05/28/2012 9:24:48 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: antceecee

you’re welcome. Really, until I lived in non-english speaking countries I never realised how one-dimensional our world-view is — we speak the international language and don’t learn about other language cultures. The others can’t do that :)


23 posted on 05/29/2012 2:36:57 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

I really appreciate your posts.


24 posted on 05/29/2012 2:44:55 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (When we cease to be good we'll cease to be great. Be for Goode.)
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