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The 'Geezers' Are Right This Time
Rasmussen ^ | May 29, 2012 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 05/29/2012 8:33:35 AM PDT by upchuck

Alan Simpson let loose at a group of Californians who charged in a brochure that he and Erskine Bowles were "using the deficit to gut our Social Security." The former Republican senator from Wyoming sent the California Association of Retired Americans a characteristically colorful response, which I quote: "What a wretched group of seniors you must be to use the faces of the very people (the young) that we are trying to save, while the 'greedy geezers' like you use them as a tool and a front for your nefarious bunch of crap."

I can't not like Simpson, but he is wrong this time, and the activists are right. The plan named for him and former Clinton Chief of Staff Bowles bravely confronted soaring deficits with balanced spending cuts and tax hikes. Upon its release, the tax-a-phobic Grover Norquist called Simpson "old and grumpy." Simpson fired back with "old Grover Norquist and his happy band of goofy warriors, all they do is make money off of people." And I, too, have made past reference to "greedy geezers."

But Simpson-Bowles had no business dragging Social Security into the operating room, and here's why: Social Security is an independent, self-funding program. It is not welfare. The workers and their employers pay for all of it.

About 25 years ago, Social Security taxes were raised above that needed to support current retirees and the surplus put in a trust fund. The goal was to create a buffer to keep the program healthy as the number of retirees grew and lived longer. Left alone, Social Security can pay all promised benefits for the next 20 years, and can continue doing so with some minor adjustments, such as raising the cap on income subject to payroll taxes.

Conservatives and "centrists" who call for compromise on the Social Security Trust Fund still don't get it, so let's bang the gong again: The trust fund represents real money taken out of workers' pockets, and the money it loaned the Treasury is really owed.

Simpson-Bowles did fine calling for a curb on projected entitlement spending. That, of course, includes Medicare, the health-insurance plan for the elderly. Unlike Social Security, Medicare is not self-supporting. Medicare payroll taxes and payments by beneficiaries cover only some of it.

The Social Security Trust Fund is a big piece of change, and by declaring the Treasury securities sitting in it "worthless pieces of paper," our right-wing politicians can throw the obligations overboard in the service of more tax cuts for the rich -- with the added bonus of killing off a program they never liked much. Often citing some scuzzy accounting methods applied to the surplus, they tell us, "Whoops, the money has been spent."

Well, duh, all the money the Treasury borrows has been spent. That's why it borrows money. Every bond it issues to investors across the globe represents a debt. And if the Treasury hadn't been able to borrow that money from the trust fund, it would have had to borrow more from the public.

Then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan was asked in 2001 whether the trust fund investments were real or not. His response: "The crucial question: Are they ultimate claims on real resources? And the answer is yes."

The California Association of Retired Americans was overenthusiastic but correct in its assertion that Simpson-Bowles envisioned using Social Security to balance budgets that the program is not supposed to be part of. They were perhaps unfair to imply that the intention was to gut Social Security. Some politicians might like that, but the more realistic explanation is that many simply don't know what they're doing.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS:
Social Security is an independent, self-funding program. It is not welfare. The workers and their employers pay for all of it.

AMEN! I am so sick and tired of being accused of receiving an "entitlement*" via my Social Security check.

* a right granted by law or contract, especially to financial benefits from the government. Source.

1 posted on 05/29/2012 8:33:43 AM PDT by upchuck
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To: upchuck

If I could have every penny I ever paid into social security right now, I’d take that in a heartbeat over what it will pay me. I could easily retire quite comfortably on it. Much more comfortably than with what SS would actually pay me...


2 posted on 05/29/2012 8:39:06 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: upchuck

The claims for disability are really hurting the system. I would not be surprised if the whole system needs another percent increase to fund everybody leaving on disability or living off of SSI.


3 posted on 05/29/2012 8:39:21 AM PDT by MSF BU (n)
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To: upchuck

Any Sonuvabi7ch who served as a Senator sucking on the Government Teat for 20 years, sucking up the perks, and now collecting his full salary as a Pension and doesn’t have to be on Obamacare, who calls me Greedy can kiss my greedy old ass.


4 posted on 05/29/2012 8:39:43 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Venturer

” Any Sonuvabi7ch who served as a Senator sucking on the Government Teat for 20 years, sucking up the perks, and now collecting his full salary as a Pension and doesn’t have to be on Obamacare, who calls me Greedy can kiss my greedy old ass.”

120,000 per year + HUGE benefits.


5 posted on 05/29/2012 8:42:11 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: upchuck

It would also be interesting to know exactly how much Mr.Simpson is drawing in overall government pensions. He gamed miltary service to avoid combat in Korea, instead arriving in Germany (after the war) for a nice easy tour with his new bride...I wonder how much his military time added to the senate pension.


6 posted on 05/29/2012 8:44:14 AM PDT by MSF BU (n)
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To: upchuck

How much did you pay over your working career relative to how much you’ve collected thus far and how much more you anticipate collecting over the remainder of your expected lifetime?

If the latter exceeds “the former, plus reasonable market returns on investment”, you’re collecting an entitlement, profiting from those younger than you.


7 posted on 05/29/2012 8:45:10 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: upchuck

The Social Security Trust Fund is a Myth. Saying Social Security is self Funded is another myth. Whatever is collected in FICA Taxes is robbed by the politicians to pay for other projects.


8 posted on 05/29/2012 8:46:34 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: upchuck

Actually the same can be said for highways and the postal service. Both have problems but the biggest trouble has come from congress itself.


9 posted on 05/29/2012 8:49:37 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: upchuck
Social Security is an independent, self-funding program. It is not welfare. The workers and their employers pay for all of it.

Well that's the way is SHOULD work at least, if the government set aside every dollar you and your employer paid into social security and put it in an account with your name on it that earned a decent return then you could probably live off what was in the account after your retire without any further contributions from the government. Unfortunately since the government spends the Social Security tax revenue as soon as they get it (usually to pay benefits to those already retired), they never earn anything on what you paid in. So if you pay in $60,000 over 30 years of employment and the government pays you $15,000 a year in benefits when you turn 65. In four years you have gone through everything you paid in during your working years and everything after that is essentially a taxpayer funded "entitlement". Say you live to 85. The government collected $60,000 from you, but paid out $300,000, for a difference of $240,000. Now multiply that by 50,000,000 retires... That's an unsustainable situation any way you cut it.

10 posted on 05/29/2012 8:49:43 AM PDT by apillar
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To: Old Retired Army Guy

The saddest part of the coming Social Security / Medicare shipwreck is that the b@stards responsible will skate on any blame.


11 posted on 05/29/2012 8:50:06 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

They are counting on escaping blame. They know they wont be in office when it crashes.


12 posted on 05/29/2012 8:52:02 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: MSF BU
And why is a Social Security office in small town Minnesota filled with Somali women in burqas?

Do they pay into SS in Somalia?

(see tagline)

13 posted on 05/29/2012 8:53:01 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Typed using <FONT STYLE=SARCASM> unless otherwise noted)
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To: MSF BU
And why is a Social Security office in small town Minnesota filled with Somali women in burqas?

Do they pay into SS in Somalia?

(see tagline)

14 posted on 05/29/2012 8:53:04 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Typed using <FONT STYLE=SARCASM> unless otherwise noted)
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To: upchuck

All you have to do is take the SS statement of earnings through the years, mine goes back to 1967. Take the amount of SS withheld that year and “buy” shares of the Dow Jones index at year end.

The data is easily available at Yahoo Finance.

Then “sell” at today’s Dow Jones index, even though it has not gone anywhere in 10 years. Add in dividends of around 3% per year.

In my case, my hypothetical account is worth 1.5 to 2 million. Enough for an annuity of 70K. I’m luck to get 20K from SS.


15 posted on 05/29/2012 8:55:04 AM PDT by cicero2k
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To: upchuck

It is welfare. Your payments went to earlier retirees; current workers pay your benefit.

The Supreme Court decision in Fleming vs. Nestor made it clear that you have no vested rights in your prior payments, there is no contractual right to Social Security benefit. You have no more contractual right to Social Security than to unemployment benefit (also referred to as “insurance”). Social Security is a transfer program, no different from the myriad of other such programs. Your payments have gone, transferred to earlier retirees. The so-called “insurance” aspect of it was just a tactic to get it passed. Social Security, like other welfare programs, takes from one group to subsidize another.


16 posted on 05/29/2012 8:55:48 AM PDT by evilC
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To: upchuck

Are you aware that there are parents who are working extremely hard to have their child or children identified with some sort of learning disability (and many who have succeeded) in order to claim SSI benefits from that self-funding program you so ferverently gloat over? So, the children who are getting these SSI benefits, and who have NEVER paid into that system, are reaping benefits that others have paid - that self-funding program is falling apart.


17 posted on 05/29/2012 8:55:48 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: upchuck
Simpson-Bowles did fine calling for a curb on projected entitlement spending

One "curb on projected entitlement spending" has already been implemented. The "payroll tax holiday" will lessen the payout to future retirees. This would be quite apparent if the SSA were still sending out yearly Social Security Statements. Workers would see their "estimated benefits" going down each year the "holiday" is in effect.

18 posted on 05/29/2012 8:55:48 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: upchuck
Social Security is an independent, self-funding program. It is not welfare. The workers and their employers pay for all of it.

Glad to hear this so I can ignore the Trustees of the Social Security Trust fund who claim it's going bankrupt in twenty years time, two years earlier than last year.

19 posted on 05/29/2012 8:57:19 AM PDT by Timocrat (Ingnorantia non excusat)
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To: upchuck
But Simpson-Bowles had no business dragging Social Security into the operating room, and here's why: Social Security is an independent, self-funding program. It is not welfare. The workers and their employers pay for all of it.

Another face palm moment for Frouma. The Supreme Court ruled SS is not what she describes. Joe Blow does not have an "account" with SS where his FICA tax goes into. If SS is an independent program its "trustees" would be thrown in jail for fraud and running a ponzi scheme.

20 posted on 05/29/2012 8:57:25 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: upchuck

The hacks in both parties are the reason we are in the bad shape this country is in. Why should ANY AMERICAN have to pay the price for the fiscal mistakes made over decades by these hack politicians. This is where “compromise” leads.
A bankrupt country. And now they want us to pay for their mistakes. Off with their heads. Get the pitchforks, tar and feathers out.


21 posted on 05/29/2012 8:58:57 AM PDT by tennmountainman
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To: MSF BU
The claims for disability are really hurting the system...

Not only the disability but all the other give aways that were tacked on during the days of plenty to buy votes.

An example. Back in the late 70's my uncle died. His son was given enough money via SS to completely pay for his last three years of college. Tuition and room & board.

If SS had been left to just pay for retirees it would, in all probability, still be solvent but the politicians used all those excess funds to buy votes rather than keep those funds for the original intended use.

22 posted on 05/29/2012 9:00:02 AM PDT by OldMissileer
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To: OldMissileer
Not only the disability but all the other give aways that were tacked on during the days of plenty to buy votes.

And the same is being done with things like the highway fund. A few years ago, Carl Levin was seeking $2 million in transportation funds to save an already partially demolished Tiger stadium in Detroit as a museum. His justification for seeking transportation money? A bus stop would be included in the design. The people mover in Detroit is rider funded at a rate of around 7%. Who do you think picks up the other 93%? In fact, 25% seems to be pretty average for the amount riders pay for public transportation.

The problem goes well beyond Social Security.
23 posted on 05/29/2012 9:08:49 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: tennmountainman
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
24 posted on 05/29/2012 9:11:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: upchuck

It is not an entitlement, it is paid for, it was supposed to be in a trust managed for our benefit... LIE.

I have paid in the following as of last year. It is MY money but the politicians stole it to buy votes for people who are against my interests and want MORE of MY money that I have EARNED. I have no employer contributions... I earned it all by myself and I have been “contributing” for a long, long time and still am.

Actual:
Medicare $206,921.32
Social Security $264,391.06
Total of the two $471,312.39

The present value of these “contributions” at a modest 6% return on the “investment”:
Medicare $381,712.16
Social Security $673,848.35
Total of the two $1,055,560.51

I’ll take a cashier’s check... ha, ha, ha. Fat chance... it is all gone. I am convinced I will not see a DIME of MY money again.


25 posted on 05/29/2012 9:17:27 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (You've been screwed by your government.)
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To: OldMissileer

I don’t call it feral government for nothing.


26 posted on 05/29/2012 9:17:33 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: upchuck

Parasites...I doubt society will ever find any effective new ways of dealing them.


27 posted on 05/29/2012 9:19:20 AM PDT by RavenATB ("Destroy the family and you destroy the country!" ~Vladimir Lenin)
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To: upchuck
But Simpson-Bowles had no business dragging Social Security into the operating room, and here's why: Social Security is an independent, self-funding program. It is not welfare.

Correction: SS WAS an independent self-funding program. It became welfare when the links between funding and benefits were severed through mixing SS payments into General Funding, and also with means-testing of the supposedly prefunded benefits.

28 posted on 05/29/2012 9:24:00 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: upchuck

I personally know someone who received a rebuttal smackdown letter from Alan Simpson after criticizing him online.

Sarcastic, self-aggrandizing, in-your-face retort is this guy’s stock in trade. Along with a hair-trigger sensitivity to any sort of criticism.


29 posted on 05/29/2012 9:32:10 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Pearls Before Swine

SSI is a medical welfare program administered but not funded by SSA. SSDI, is a benefit program funded and administered by SSA. The standards for each are very different.


30 posted on 05/29/2012 9:38:22 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: DuncanWaring

If the government that took the money at the point of a gun would stop printing money, then you might have a point.


31 posted on 05/29/2012 10:01:44 AM PDT by donna (The fruits of Feminism: Angry fathers, bitter mothers, fat kids and political correctness.)
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To: upchuck
AMEN! I am so sick and tired of being accused of receiving an "entitlement*" via my Social Security check.

* a right granted by law or contract, especially to financial benefits from the government. Source.

Sorry, but it IS welfare. Period. Social Security has no account with your name on it. There never was. You paid into SS a tax which went to pay the old age welfare payments of your parents. There was a little left over to go into the kitty as surplus but your generation (collectively) started helping themselves to it early, spending it on frivolous things. Now it's almost gone. If we raise taxes high enough to continue paying old age welfare at the rate we have, we will eventually all starve as the U.S. collapses under a mountain of debt. EVERYTHING must be cut in order for us to survive.

32 posted on 05/29/2012 10:16:23 AM PDT by Sparticus (Tar and feathers for the next dumb@ss Republican that uses the word bipartisanship.)
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To: Sequoyah101

Actual:
Medicare $206,921.32
Social Security $264,391

Medicare contribution thru FICA is only approx 1.50% while the SS contrib thru FICA is approx 6.5%. Yet you are reflecting contributing about the same for medicare as SS. How?While SS can be “fixed”, Medicare is not a sustainable program. The govt expends 900 billion a year on medicare benefits and collects approx 125 billion in FICA contributions annually for a 700 billion dollar annual deficit. It is not sustainable. The entire program needs to be revamped more along the lines of a voucher system as Ryan has proposed if we want to make it close to self sustaining.


33 posted on 05/29/2012 10:50:02 AM PDT by chuckee
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To: Old Retired Army Guy
The Social Security Trust Fund is a Myth. Saying Social Security is self Funded is another myth.

Actually, both are true. However, as you correctly point out, Whatever is collected in FICA Taxes is robbed by the politicians to pay for other projects. Congress (and the people who elected them) is the problem. Simply put, if anyone OTHER THAN congress were doing this, they would be in prison. Just ask Bernie Madoff. In fact, what congress has done, and continues to do, is far worse than what Madoff did: At least with Madoff, his victims contributed to him voluntarily. He didn't effectively hold a gun to their head, as does congress.

Mark

34 posted on 05/29/2012 10:51:44 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: chuckee

Recall that medicare is paid on an UNLIMITED level of income and is not limited like SS.


35 posted on 05/29/2012 10:55:20 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (You've been screwed by your government.)
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To: firebasecody

Re your Post #30 to me:

What you say about Medicare is true, but I was responding to the quote in the article, which said “Social Security” and called it “self-funding” which Medicare never really was.


36 posted on 05/29/2012 12:43:24 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: upchuck

Every time you hear somebody bandy about the statistic “Half of the population is on Government assistance,” they are referring to SS.


37 posted on 05/29/2012 12:52:51 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: DuncanWaring

Die quickly! Is what you seem to be saying...


38 posted on 05/30/2012 12:37:25 PM PDT by subterfuge (BUILD MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS NOW!!!)
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To: subterfuge

I’m not saying “Die quickly!”; I’m saying “If you’ve collected more than you would have had if you had put your contributions into some typical sort of investment, you’re collecting an entitlement.”.


39 posted on 05/30/2012 2:06:43 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

That’s a good question. A in-depth human audit with full cross tabs available for demographic representation of SSI use might be VERY revealing.


40 posted on 06/03/2012 9:31:51 AM PDT by MSF BU (n)
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To: MSF BU
Si, amigo.

May Allah be praised!

41 posted on 06/03/2012 3:28:42 PM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Typed using <FONT STYLE=SARCASM> unless otherwise noted)
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