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Not worth the debt (The ugly truth about student college loans)
New York Post ^ | 05/29/2012 | Glenn Harlan Reynolds

Posted on 05/29/2012 5:19:29 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

I’ve been writing for years about a bubble in higher education: too much demand, causing sky-high prices — all because of cheap government money, much like the housing bubble. Now those warnings have become conventional wisdom — so conventional that they’ve reached The New York Times and even 60 Minutes.

Pretty much everyone agrees that the increases in tuition (which have vastly outpaced consumer prices and family incomes) and the growth in student-loan debt (which now exceeds credit-card or auto-loan debt) are unsustainable. As economist Herb Stein famously said, something that can’t go on forever, won’t. So, how should we respond?

For students, piece of advice No. 1 is: Don’t go into debt. When I went to law school, back in the ’80s, I turned down free rides at a couple of excellent schools to go to Yale Law School, even though it meant taking on a lot of student-loan debt. I’m not sure I’d advise anyone to do the same thing today, even to go to Yale Law, the undisputed king of the law-school rankings — and I’m positive I wouldn’t make a similar tradeoff for many other places, even Harvard Law.

Debt is what gets people into trouble in bubbles: They borrow heavily because they think the value of what they’re buying, whether it’s a house or a tulip, will go up. When it stops going up, they’re sunk.

Today, the value of an education isn’t going up, but the price is. That’s a bad combination. So don’t borrow heavily.

That’s good advice for schools, too. Those that borrow money based on the expectation that tuition revenue will continue to increase will have problems, and, in fact, some already are. Instead, schools should be looking to cut costs and increase value

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: college; debt; studentloans; tuition

1 posted on 05/29/2012 5:19:44 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Hope your dad paid: These joyful Harvard Law grads may soon find that even their elite degrees don’t justify enormous loan burdens.
2 posted on 05/29/2012 5:21:10 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: SeekAndFind

In a way the bubble has started to burst. A growing trend is for students to graduate early by accumulating credits in high school and community college during the summer. WSJ reported graduation in 3 to 3 1/2 years. My son will graduate in three years which means a 25% revenue loss for the school. If one attends community college for 2 years then finishes at a four year school, that is a 50% loss in revenue.


3 posted on 05/29/2012 5:31:32 PM PDT by 11th Commandment (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: SeekAndFind

If a kid is not a scholar, a junior college for 2 years, then the state university is the way to go.


4 posted on 05/29/2012 5:34:25 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I owe 0.00 on college debt. I went for 2 years during high school, the high school paid the bill (thank you John Q tax payer)..

I do nothing in the field I went to school for now. I am doing much better in my first year in my new field than I did in my best year during my 15 years in the field I went to college for.

I have friends with 4 year degrees who can’t find work. Me, I have them begging me. Being book smart does not mean you can do the job. Proving you can to the right people gets your name out there and the phone does the rest of the work for you.


5 posted on 05/29/2012 5:37:03 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: 11th Commandment

That’s been going on for years. Trouble is, the four-year schools won’t always accept outside transfer credits (as I learned the hard way).


6 posted on 05/29/2012 5:37:09 PM PDT by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: SeekAndFind
A friend of mine attended his daughter's graduation from the University of North Carolina a couple weeks ago. The festivities spanned almost an entire week.

He said in EVERY men's room he used were facilities for muslims to wash their feet for their five times/day prayers.

F islam. FUBO.

7 posted on 05/29/2012 5:39:03 PM PDT by Jacquerie (No court will save us from ourselves)
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To: SeekAndFind

I have a nephew who keeps harping on “Student debt forgiveness.”

I keep asking him “what was the caliber of the gun they held to your head when you promised to repay that which you borrowed?”

He, being a liberal (AKA “those with no money of their own”) keeps saying “we should support education.”

When I press him, he gives up (since he can’t win).

The idea that loans are sacred obligations that must be repaid is lost on this generation (and, from some FR responses lost on my generation as well).

I am pretty sure the official motto of the USA is “boo hoo, poor me! I chose badly! FIX MY BOO BOO!!”


8 posted on 05/29/2012 5:39:28 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Jacquerie

>>He said in EVERY men’s room he used were facilities for muslims to wash their feet for their five times/day prayers.<<

I would have pissed in them.

Seriously.


9 posted on 05/29/2012 5:40:45 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: SeekAndFind
...a bubble in higher education: too much demand, causing sky-high prices...

And the scools spend every dime. They have bloated the administrations while the cost of scooling increases to the rate of inflation by double or triple. and over a decade...or two, the cost of school is waaaaaaay overpricved , so the students incur far more debt then should normally be had.

10 posted on 05/29/2012 5:46:21 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator (Article 58)
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To: Jacquerie
First: College degrees have morphed into useless to semi-useless paper. Most should get a technical degree and then add to their education as they progress in experience.

Second: I work in Afghanistan and I have a bird's eye view of life here. Most don't pray, or pray very little. Most don't wash religiously.

Third: Muslims demand these hyper-religious accomadations in the US just to be annoying.

11 posted on 05/29/2012 6:01:15 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: SeekAndFind
I think that something that's being overlooked is that the high school counsellors who advise graduating seniors to go to super-expensive private schools in order to get degrees that will never pay for themselves.

It's one thing to go into debt when you have awesome prospects, like 2 of my cousins, one of whom has law firms fighting over her once she finishes law school, and her brother, who had to decide which of 9 med schools to attend, after having graduated with degrees in biology and microbiology from Stanford with a 3.98GPA.

They're way smarter than I am.

Mark

12 posted on 05/29/2012 6:30:04 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: MarkL

Several thoughts and observations:

- colleges and universities MUST stop the “grievance McStudies” degrees.......Black Trangendered Studies is political propaganda and sin....not scholarship

- the trend has already begun to charge STEM majors (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) more tuition than for your crap like Wimins Studies. It should be the opposite.......charge the productive degrees that require tons of work the lower price

- slash the living hell out of budgets........get rid of every “Diversity Chair” and associated crappola. Fire all of them


13 posted on 05/29/2012 6:42:55 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SeekAndFind

Education spending is nothing more than a slush fund for liberalism.


14 posted on 05/29/2012 6:45:35 PM PDT by WeatherGuy
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To: WeatherGuy

Well said.

Unlimited subsidized loans to students

Allows grossly overpriced tuition

Allows huge salaries for liberal profs and admins

Who make significant donations to Democrats

and repeat....


15 posted on 05/29/2012 6:50:30 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Puckster; nutmeg

Great comments from someone who is on the scene. Thanks!


16 posted on 05/29/2012 6:51:32 PM PDT by mojo114 (Pray for our military)
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To: SeekAndFind

Question:

If student loans were to be “forgiven” by the government, and the banks were to issuing institutions, why would any taxpayer approve of future loan guarantees by government, since, it will be a one way street and the loser is always the taxpayer.

Question:

If banks are the lending institutions for those student loans, and students are then forgiven those loans, why would any bank ever again make any loans to students?

Question:

Why would any business ever want to hire any graduate who started out his professional career wanting and getting his student loans erased from “personal responsibility”?


17 posted on 05/29/2012 6:58:57 PM PDT by adorno
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To: SeekAndFind
...too much demand, causing sky-high prices

That's NOT the problem. It's liberal elites feeling they can work 8 hours a week and be paid $200,000 a year.

That's not the only way they rip off students and their parents ...

Colleges and the rip-off professors and administration put out textbooks that change frequently so students can't buy 'used' books.

Had a friend years back that used to write some of them - the publishers told him to make a few changes, they would change the cover and voila - college students would be screwed again by those 'oh so compassionate' liberals.

18 posted on 05/29/2012 6:59:57 PM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: SeekAndFind

GREAT NEWS!

Headline should be:
“College Students Learn Government Debt Ruins Their Lives.”

Yes, students ARE learning something useful in college...


19 posted on 05/29/2012 7:04:15 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: mojo114

Truth is, you really don’t want to shake their hands.....for cleanliness reasons.


20 posted on 05/29/2012 8:19:23 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: adorno
Excellent questions.

Long term, I think we have to get the government completely out of the student loan business and encourage colleges to set up their own sets of private lenders.

Hillsdale College in Michigan does exactly that. They don't even allow their students to take out government loans.

There are a handful of other conservative colleges working on similar arrangements. In Hillsdale's case, their lenders actually offer better rates than government loans in some cases because their kids actually graduate with useful, marketable skills and the default rate is very low.

Still, there will be many headaches in liquidating the government loans. Some can be sold on the open market.

Others would have to be written off. As a condition for the write-offs, some of the students should be able to fill public service jobs which are otherwise hard to fill such as medical services in an rural or inner city area.

The colleges who made such loans should also be compelled to eat a portion of them. Many of them have rich endowments which could be assessed to help pay them back. Signing up students to give you an income stream and not providing an education which has a reasonable chance of allowing them pay it back should not be cost free.

They need to be cleaned off the books one way or the other. For many kids (and their parents), the debt is simply not sustainable.

21 posted on 05/29/2012 8:29:00 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Perusing the classified section this last weekend, jobs advertised included truck drivers (CDL), nurses, automotive technicians, electricians, plumbers, etc. All could be obtained thru technical schools, community colleges and apprenticeships.


22 posted on 05/29/2012 8:53:41 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: RetiredTexasVet

But, these are the kind of jobs where you actually have to show up regularly and work .... you know, work.


23 posted on 05/29/2012 8:55:28 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: Vigilanteman

First, people have to figure out their reasons for going to college in the first place. Many don’t have a clue. They have been told to go to college in order to get a good job. College has been so dumbed down that a degree doesn’t mean that much any more, and many kids go just to party and watch sports for several years.

The entire university system is going to disappear. When one can take courses from MIT online, why spend thousands of dollars to go to Podunk U. for a degree in communications? If people want a liberal arts education, the world is already at their fingertips online. This isn’t the Middle Ages any more where books and information are rare. People can educate themselves in a myriad of ways and find their calling in life without wasting years sitting in classrooms. As usual, government is getting in the way of progress. Government schools are to education what government solar companies are to energy production.


24 posted on 05/29/2012 10:24:11 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: SkyPilot

Schools like U of Florida are starting to cut STEM classes. To expensive, and lets be honest, not PC.


25 posted on 05/30/2012 9:27:33 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Puckster

Hang in there. Be safe. Come home.....our nation has TONS of crummy citizens and problems (not to mention terrible political leadership) - BUT - you will still love coming home to a nation that is a far cry from where you are working and living now. Blessings.


26 posted on 05/30/2012 4:22:37 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

Land of the Brave...........


27 posted on 05/30/2012 4:29:29 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: redgolum

“Schools like U of Florida are starting to cut STEM classes.”

Is it because of less demand?


28 posted on 06/14/2012 12:55:00 PM PDT by Bizhvywt
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To: Bizhvywt

Cost reasons. It cost a lot to have the labs and equipment to train an engineer. A liberal arts student only need the class room and teacher.


29 posted on 06/14/2012 1:18:35 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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