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Pastor Sentenced To 2 Years In Prison For Teaching That Parents Should Spank Their Children
endoftheamericandream.com ^ | 5/29/2012 | The American Dream

Posted on 05/30/2012 9:51:48 AM PDT by JohnKinAK

Do you believe that parents should be able to spank their children? Do you ever express that opinion to others? If so, then you could be sent to prison. Sadly, that is exactly what happened to one pastor up in Wisconsin recently. A minister named Philip Caminiti was sentenced to 2 years in prison for simply teaching that parents should spank their children when they misbehave. Please note that Caminiti was not accused of spanking anyone or of physically hurting anyone. He was put in prison simply for his speech. He was put in prison simply for what he was teaching others to do. Whether you agree with spanking or not, this should be incredibly sobering for all of us. Increasingly, speech is being penalized in the United States. Much of the time, the focus of the attacks by the forces of political correctness is on religious speech. If this trend continues, many of you that are reading this article might be put in jail for the things that you say in the coming years.

When many of us were growing up, once in a while our parents would take out a belt or a wooden paddle and give us a paddling on the behind when we did something wrong.

Was there anything wrong with that?

Of course not.

Yes, there is real child abuse that goes on out there, but in the vast majority of instances spanking does not do any lasting physical harm. Rather, it benefits the child because it helps them learn what is right and what is wrong.

I know that when I got a licking on the behind as a child that helped me to remember not to do the same thing again.

But Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi was absolutely horrified that some parents would actually use a wooden spoon to spank their little children when they misbehaved.

Perhaps that judge should actually try to spank someone with a wooden spoon some time. You simply cannot do much damage with a wooden spoon.

Instead of going after the parents who were doing the spanking, prosecutors chose to go after the pastor instead. They claimed that Caminiti was "the spoke in the wheel of this conspiracy".

Even after Caminiti leaves prison, he will be forbidden from having any contact with his old church....

Caminiti will be on extended supervision for six years after his release from prison. Despite objections on constitutional grounds by Caminiti's lawyers, Sumi ordered that he not have any contact with the Aleitheia Bible Church and have no leadership role in any church. What in the world is happening to this country?

Criminal predators are literally eating the faces off of people, and yet authorities want to go after pastors that are encouraging their congregations to follow the teachings of the Bible?

Have we stepped into a really bizarre episode of The Twilight Zone?

Sadly, this is not the only example of how our free speech is under attack these days.

Up in New York, a new bill was recently introduced that would outlaw all "mean-spirited and baseless political attacks".

I think that would cover a whole lot of people that leave comments on my blog.

The following is how a recent article by Kurt Nimmo described what this new law would require....

New York state government is attempting to pass the measure in both the Senate and the Assembly. The legislation has been referred to the Codes Committee in the Senate, and the Government Operations Committee in the Assembly.

Both proposals are identical and would effect messages posted on message boards, blogs, social networks, and “any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.” The law would require websites to post email addresses for “removal requests, clearly visible in any sections where comments are posted.” Those demanding the removal of content they find objectionable, however, would have their anonymity protected.

“Had the internet been around in the late 1700s, perhaps the anonymously written Federalist Papers would have to be taken down unless Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay revealed themselves,” notes David Kravets, writing for Wired. Will we soon see laws such as this nationwide?

Will all blogs and websites soon be at the mercy of the politically correct police?

Up in Buffalo, New York it is apparently now against the law to hand out Christian tracts on a public sidewalk. At least that is what one man was told recently when he attempted to hand out tracts outside of an Italian heritage festival. The following is from a recent WorldNetDaily article....

While handing out tracts to willing recipients on a public street during a public festival, Owen was approached by a police officer who declined to identify himself but told him that the Buffalo Police Department is “the law” and he should stop handing out tracts.

According to the lawsuit: “Subsequently, another police officer, Officer Slomka, arrived on the scene. She quickly informed Owen that they could not hand out tracts in the festival and explained that the prohibition was ‘by our orders.’ Owen asked for her name, and she replied: ‘Slomka, write it down.’ Owen advised that he believed the tracts to be free speech; nonplussed, Officer Slomka reiterated that they couldn’t hand out tracts there and had to go outside of the festival area to continue with their expressive activity.”

Then, “Owen inquired as to whether they would be arrested if they continued to hand out tracts in the festival area, to which, Officer Slomka replied: ‘Yes.’” That almost makes me angry enough to take a trip over to Buffalo and hand out tracts right outside the police station.

Even if you do not ever distribute literature, you should be alarmed at how our freedom of speech is being eroded.

The truth is that whenever anyone has their freedom of speech attacked it is an attack on all of us.

If we are not careful, we are going to end up just like Canada.

At one high school up in Canada recently, a student was suspended from school for a week for wearing a shirt with the following message....

"Life is wasted without Jesus" The student was told that the shirt was "hate talk" and that he would be suspended for the rest of the year if he tried to wear it to school again.

They are coming for our free speech ladies and gentlemen.

They are not going to be satisfied until they have either shut all of us up or put all of us in prison.

It is imperative that we all stand up for free speech while we still can. Once our freedom of speech is gone, the loss of the rest of our freedoms will only be a matter of time.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: 666; postconstitutional
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The Post-Constitutional America
1 posted on 05/30/2012 9:51:53 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK
This would never have happened 150 years ago.

But then, if it DID happen 150 years ago, the judge and jailers would have to answer to an angry mob of armed American citizens and there would be no SWAT Teams or other sophisticated paramilitary forces there to protect them.

2 posted on 05/30/2012 9:57:05 AM PDT by ZULU (Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomini Tuo Da Gloriam.)
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To: JohnKinAK

Sumi is the same black robed tyrant that injoined Wisconson’s new laws to protect the people from the public unions.


3 posted on 05/30/2012 9:58:10 AM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: JohnKinAK

That judge needs a good spanking


4 posted on 05/30/2012 10:02:37 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Extraneous Wind sends ...)
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To: JohnKinAK

The people of the United States are beginning to reap the seeds that they, via they votes, they so gleefully began sowing many years ago. The harvest will be bountiful,plentiful, lenghty, and bitter.


5 posted on 05/30/2012 10:02:37 AM PDT by sport
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To: JohnKinAK
A Dane County Wisconsin jury took a mere two hours to come to their verdict regarding the 54-year-old pastor’s fate. The short deliberation time was probably attributed to the fact that the case revolved around the beatings of young children, speculates Assistant District Attorney Shelly Rusch.

Source

Seems like something is being held back by the press. I think this is a case of selective journalism - no mention of a jury in the above article, mention of 8 counts of child abuse in this one. Sensationalism drives newspaper sales - truth be damned.

6 posted on 05/30/2012 10:02:48 AM PDT by Hodar (Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.- A. Schopenhauer)
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To: JohnKinAK

I have mixed emotions on this decision after reading the following article.

http://newsone.com/1952855/philip-caminiti-black-earth/


7 posted on 05/30/2012 10:03:17 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: JohnKinAK

This is tyranny pure and simple. Liberty, In God We Trust and E Pluribus Unum are gone in all but word.


8 posted on 05/30/2012 10:07:41 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: JohnKinAK

Yes...but he advocated hitting even 2 month old infants with a wooden stick. That cannot be allowed. However, prison for speech or advocacy should not be punished by imprisonment. He abused/spanked no child.

Maybe they should have done like they do in Singapore and given him a few lashes with one of his ‘rods’.


9 posted on 05/30/2012 10:08:04 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Hodar

If an entire jury found him guilty, I suspect there is more going on than a spanking.

We can spank. We can’t beat half to death. Is this what was actually happening?


10 posted on 05/30/2012 10:10:05 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: rawhide

I agree it looks like Caminiti is trying to impose a form of Sharia-like Christianity which is not good. However he needs therapy not jail.


11 posted on 05/30/2012 10:10:13 AM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: JohnKinAK

There must be more to this than mere speech.


12 posted on 05/30/2012 10:11:28 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: JohnKinAK
I'm not certain that urging one's parishioners to commit violent, criminal acts against infants falls under the protection of free speech.

What I see seems to be more like conspiracy to commit physical abuse against infants. A swat to a toddlers behind with the palm of your hand is a long way from using dowels or wooden spoons on an infant for crying.
13 posted on 05/30/2012 10:14:27 AM PDT by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

And yet Muslim Imams openly advocate beating women.


14 posted on 05/30/2012 10:15:15 AM PDT by JMS
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To: rawhide
After reading the story at link, I can't see the conflict. This is undiluted tyrannical government without redeeming value.

Any resemblance between this and America is delusional.

15 posted on 05/30/2012 10:15:15 AM PDT by stormhill
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To: RightOnTheBorder

Before everyone goes off half-cocked on this, you might want to read this article:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/black-earth-pastor-found-guilty-in-child-abuse-case/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html

1. He was advocating the use of a wooden dowel (or spoon) to be used to spank children as young as 2 months, in specific instances.

2. It took a jury (not a judge) only two hours to come back with a guilty verdict for his role in what is clearly the abuse of children.

3. Several of his parishonors, mostly relatives, have either already been convicted of child abuse, or have been indicted.

Oh, and I agree that spanking a child is a reasonable punishment at times. But this case was extreme. He essentially advocated beating children into submission because they were “exhibiting ‘selfish crying’,” according to what he told police. Dane County is ridiculously liberal, but that doesn’t mean that its residents and officials are always on the wrong side of an issue. I suspect most of the contributors in here would have made up their minds the same way as the jury, and in even less time than the two hours they took to do so.


16 posted on 05/30/2012 10:15:15 AM PDT by Norseman (Defund the Left-Completely!)
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To: RightOnTheBorder
Enjoined.
17 posted on 05/30/2012 10:17:03 AM PDT by arthurus ( Read Henry hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson")
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To: Norseman
Oh, and I agree that spanking a child is a reasonable punishment at times. But this case was extreme. He essentially advocated beating children into submission because they were “exhibiting ‘selfish crying’,” according to what he told police. Dane County is ridiculously liberal, but that doesn’t mean that its residents and officials are always on the wrong side of an issue. I suspect most of the contributors in here would have made up their minds the same way as the jury, and in even less time than the two hours they took to do so.

Well written! I agree!

18 posted on 05/30/2012 10:23:44 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: NonValueAdded

“That judge needs a good spanking”

You start with the judge, I’m holding out for Kate Upton.


19 posted on 05/30/2012 10:23:58 AM PDT by Stevenc131
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To: JohnKinAK

THIS case is not a example ya want to use, excessive spanking to the point of beating and damage on those too young to comprehend the “reason”, and the entire jury agreed.


20 posted on 05/30/2012 10:24:58 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it and the law is what WE say it is.)
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To: Norseman
Oh, and I agree that spanking a child is a reasonable punishment at times. But this case was extreme. He essentially advocated beating children into submission because they were “exhibiting ‘selfish crying’,” according to what he told police. Dane County is ridiculously liberal, but that doesn’t mean that its residents and officials are always on the wrong side of an issue. I suspect most of the contributors in here would have made up their minds the same way as the jury, and in even less time than the two hours they took to do so.

Perhaps, but it still seems if he wasn't beating the children himself, he was basically convicted of a "thought crime" (as stupid as his thoughts happened to be). I always believed in this country your were free to advocate sacrificing newborn babies to Satan if that was your thing as long as you never actually acted on it (heck you even got the NAMBLA crowd that openly advocates sex between men and boys. What is the difference?) Whatever happened to personal responsibility, punish the parents that committed the act, I assume they were adults who made a conscious choice to listen to the idiot preacher.

21 posted on 05/30/2012 10:30:16 AM PDT by apillar
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To: DarthVader

He has the right to preach Sharia law if he desires. Now, with that said, where is the line? Would he be allowed to preach that people should commit murder? What if a private citizen told his neighbor that the neighbor should spank his child? Can he be sent to prison? Very slippery slope here.


22 posted on 05/30/2012 10:33:19 AM PDT by Terry Mross ("It happened. And we let it happen." Peter Griffin - FAMILY GUY)
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To: arthurus
Spell check? We don't need no stinking spell check. :-)
23 posted on 05/30/2012 10:35:33 AM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: JohnKinAK
Calling for the killing of Zimmerman was OK, but spanking is not.
There must be more to this story.
24 posted on 05/30/2012 10:37:30 AM PDT by MaxMax
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To: JohnKinAK

Gotta take this one with a grain of salt.
Nowhere does the poster list the actual criminal charge that the pastor was sentenced for.
As for forbidding the pastor to ever have a leadership role in a church? I would want to read the transcript. Would seem on the face to be unconstitutional.


25 posted on 05/30/2012 10:37:47 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: Terry Mross
He has the right to preach Sharia law if he desires. Now, with that said, where is the line? Would he be allowed to preach that people should commit murder? What if a private citizen told his neighbor that the neighbor should spank his child? Can he be sent to prison? Very slippery slope here.

Or what if the preacher in the course of his weekly bible readings happens to recite that chapter in Leviticus where it says Homosexuals should be put to death. Then a while later someone in the congregation with a few screws loose kills a homosexual. Under this precedent, the preacher could be locked up for doing nothing but reading a verse as it is written in the Bible. A very slippery slope indeed...

26 posted on 05/30/2012 10:39:47 AM PDT by apillar
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To: JohnKinAK

This isn’t a free-speech/free-religion case. It is a true child-abuse issue. He was instructing church members to abuse their children, some as young as 2 months. It is not that he merely advocates spanking with a wooden spoon. He directs parents to beat babies. Do we really wish for “freedom of religion” to serve as a cover for true child abuse? I don’t think so.


27 posted on 05/30/2012 10:45:00 AM PDT by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: JohnKinAK

Hard to read. What was the charge?


28 posted on 05/30/2012 10:45:43 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

The judicial branch is empowered to keep those convicted of conspiracy to commit child sex offenses from positions in which they might come into contact with kids, I have no problem having the same done to those who conspire to commit child abuse.

Reading some of the other articles out there on the interweb about this case provides an entirely different perspective than does the article at the top of this thread.


29 posted on 05/30/2012 10:45:48 AM PDT by dmz
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To: AppyPappy

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/black-earth-pastor-found-guilty-in-child-abuse-case/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html

Convicted on 8 counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse.

There’s a reason that the article at the top of this thread is hard to read. It wants to obfuscate the actual issue with phony freedom of speech/religion discussions.


30 posted on 05/30/2012 10:49:01 AM PDT by dmz
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To: apillar

Or what if the preacher in the course of his weekly bible readings happens to recite that chapter in Leviticus where it says Homosexuals should be put to death. Then a while later someone in the congregation with a few screws loose kills a homosexual. Under this precedent, the preacher could be locked up for doing nothing but reading a verse as it is written in the Bible. A very slippery slope indeed...

<><><><><

Not even a close comparison. I suggest you read some of the other articles on this case that are readily googled.

The “pastor” was not reading Proverbs to the congregation, he was instructing them on the use of wooden dowels on the naked bottoms of 2 month old children.


31 posted on 05/30/2012 10:54:38 AM PDT by dmz
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To: RightOnTheBorder

With the last name sumi am I far off in thinking this is a Muslim liberal and perhaps one in the same giving Scott Walker a hard time in Wisconsin?


32 posted on 05/30/2012 10:55:41 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: Guyin4Os
"He was instructing. . . "

You call it "instructing," he called it "preaching," but however you characterize it, it is speech.

This IS a free speech case, and this jury verdict is very troublesome.

33 posted on 05/30/2012 10:57:15 AM PDT by d-back
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To: NonValueAdded

How do we get the Judge out from the bench? Seems like a typical liberal looking to destroy what is good and just.


34 posted on 05/30/2012 10:58:36 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: dmz
And that verbal "instruction" is not protected as free speech, and it should constitute a conspiracy to commit child abuse, a criminal conviction, and jail time?

Hmmm. Think about that.

35 posted on 05/30/2012 11:00:24 AM PDT by d-back
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To: dmz
The “pastor” was not reading Proverbs to the congregation, he was instructing them on the use of wooden dowels on the naked bottoms of 2 month old children.

So what? Where the members of the congregation not responsible adults who could ignore him? I still believe that unless he was personally beating peoples children with a wooden dowels then he's free to advocate any stupid, idiotic thing he wants. Heck, we have neo-nazi's who advocate killing Jews, the KKK who advocate killing blacks, the Black Panther who advocate killing whites. I don't see them being arrested simply for advocating stupid, illegal acts.

36 posted on 05/30/2012 11:04:03 AM PDT by apillar
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To: dmz

The first 2 paragraphs of your MSM article confirms what the original article contention.

“A Black Earth pastor was found guilty Wednesday of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse for advocating the use of wooden rods to spank children as young as two months.

A Dane County jury took only about two hours to find Philip Caminiti, 54, pastor of the Aleitheia Bible Church, guilty of having instructed members of his flock to punish children as young as infants and toddlers by striking them on the bare buttocks with wood dowels in order to teach them to behave correctly, fitting the church’s literal interpretation of the Bible.”

The great part now is that the children will become wards of the State and CPS, where statisically nation wide they are something like 10 times more likely to be the victims of child sexual abuse.


37 posted on 05/30/2012 11:04:16 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl

Please make sure you’re sitting down before reading this!


38 posted on 05/30/2012 11:05:10 AM PDT by houeto (FReepathon 2Q! https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: houeto

Jeepers... thanks for the ping.


39 posted on 05/30/2012 11:07:45 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Norseman
He essentially advocated beating children into submission because they were “exhibiting ‘selfish crying’,” according to what he told police.

So what? The constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
It doesn't say "except where one advocates beating children."

The Wisconsin constitution says:

SECTION 3. [Free speech; libel.] Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right, and no laws shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press. In all criminal prosecutions or indictments for libel, the truth may be given in evidence, and if it appears to the jury that the matter charged as libelous be true, and was published with good motives and for justifiable ends, the party shall be acquited; and the jury shall have the right to determine the law and fact.
Again it doesn't restrict itself based on the topic of the speech, but only if the speech is libelous or not. This is a gross miscarriage of justice.
40 posted on 05/30/2012 11:19:24 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Persevero
Apparently, that IS what was happening:

Caminiti’s charges allege that two of the children beaten by followers of his doctrine were only two months old. When the beatings were stopped by authorities in 2010, the oldest victim was only five years old.

I can't quite figure out how a two month-old child would deserve a beating.

41 posted on 05/30/2012 11:20:59 AM PDT by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: JennysCool

“I can’t quite figure out how a two month-old child would deserve a beating. “

Under no circumstance.


42 posted on 05/30/2012 11:34:09 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: JohnKinAK

Do you know what “conspiracy to commit child abuse” consists of?
I’d hardly hold up this conviction as abandonment of the Constitution. But if it suits your personal agenda....


43 posted on 05/30/2012 11:45:13 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Clara Lou

Having relatives who are Ex-Amish, if this is what amounts to a conspiracy to commit child abuse then the Amish are in real trouble. They might as well send the SWAT teams out to every Amish community and arrest the parents and preachers for conspiracy today.

Here’s the dirty little secret you won’t find in any MSM article: This is really all about the State finding an excuse to take the kids from their parents and turn them over to the State Sponsored Pedophiles who are within the Child Protective Services.


44 posted on 05/30/2012 11:59:45 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: rawhide

“Caminiti would instruct church members and his own adult children to beat crying infants and toddlers with wooden spoons and dowels on their bare bottoms.”

That sounds like conspiracy to commit child abuse all right. I don’t see what’s so outrageous about the conviction. People who beat children—babies—are as bad as child molesters.


45 posted on 05/30/2012 12:07:13 PM PDT by tumblindice (Our new, happy lives.)
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To: d-back
This IS a free speech case, and this jury verdict is very troublesome.

No, this is not a free speech case. This guy was not charged with "preaching" this sort of "discipline" to his congregation. He was chardged with and convicted of specifically instructing individual congregants on how to discipline children as young as two months old using a rod to inflict pain; those congregants agreed with him and then, in fact, used rods to discipline their children. Legally and Constitutionally, there is a huge difference between those two situations - the former is Constitutionally-protected speech and religious preaching, while the latter is a conspiracy to commit child abuse.

46 posted on 05/30/2012 12:16:16 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: JohnKinAK

UM spanking and abuse are not equivalent. Half the time when I was spanked it didn’t hurt, and the other half of the time it didn’t hurt as badly even as stubbing my toe. For me, spanking was disapproval; spanking was being held accountable. The pain of spanking was the pain of knowing I had done wrong and the pain of being caught.

The worst part is that spanking is treated like an evil, and yet there are people out there openly advocating pedophilia as something normal and okay!! Freedom of speech for the babyrapers, but not for the Christians who say to discipline children? I guess spanking is only acceptable if its a pedo advocating it as part of a “valid” relationship with the children.

In the days of Noah, what was it like? Only 8 people were left who were righteous in the eyes of the Lord. There are more than 8 Christians out there and we are told that the end will be like the days of Noah. It’s going to get worse, people.


47 posted on 05/30/2012 12:20:15 PM PDT by Conservaliberty (25 and conservative. I guess I have no heart, Oh, well, makes shooting the bad guys easier.)
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To: JohnKinAK
This is really all about...."
Well, that's one interpretation. [PS: As far as I'm concerned, CPS is there when it shouldn't be, and not there when it should be.]
48 posted on 05/30/2012 12:26:59 PM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: NonValueAdded; RepRivFarm

But Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi was absolutely horrified that some parents would actually use a wooden spoon to spank their little children when they misbehaved.


That judge needs a good spanking

***

Absolutely. I nominate John Wayne for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12-qzPW9Gg


49 posted on 05/30/2012 12:29:27 PM PDT by Conservaliberty (25 and conservative. I guess I have no heart, Oh, well, makes shooting the bad guys easier.)
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To: ZULU

” But then, if it DID happen 150 years ago, the judge and jailers would have to answer to an angry mob of armed American citizens and there would be no SWAT Teams or other sophisticated paramilitary forces there to protect them. “

Correct


50 posted on 05/30/2012 12:32:50 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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