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Are We Headed for Another Electoral Mess?
Roll Call ^ | May 30, 2012 | Stuart Rothenberg

Posted on 05/30/2012 3:07:07 PM PDT by SMGFan

A dozen years ago, Democrat Al Gore drew 540,000 votes more than Republican George W. Bush but lost the presidency when Bush carried Florida and won 271 electoral votes.

There is no reason that couldn’t happen again, with President Barack Obama winning a narrow popular vote victory and losing in the Electoral College. Most of the same states are in play as were in 2000, and any close popular vote outcome raises the possibility of a split decision, especially because Obama is likely to “waste” large numbers of votes in carrying a handful of populous states.

(Excerpt) Read more at rollcall.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: college; electoral
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Media will be yelling "Let Barry win"
1 posted on 05/30/2012 3:07:08 PM PDT by SMGFan
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To: SMGFan

I do not care who wins popular vote. It still is all about the Electoral College. I don’t want the Big City folks picking my President any way.................


2 posted on 05/30/2012 3:14:26 PM PDT by blueyon (The U. S. Constitution - read it and weep)
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To: SMGFan

What’s the ‘mess’? Our system uses an electoral college... If we don’t like that system, we can change it or leave it like it is. Either way, a win using an existing system isn’t a mess.


3 posted on 05/30/2012 3:14:35 PM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: SMGFan

Since Obama is sort of black, if the election is sort of close we should prolly let the Civil Rights Commission decide the outcome. Yathink?

Or maybe we should give Obama a 20 EV handicap. You know, Affirmative Action and all.


4 posted on 05/30/2012 3:15:12 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: SMGFan

This won’t be a mess. It will be a landslide and the electoral college will be an afterthought.

Of course, I’m betting that when Obama goes in front of a national audience around 10 o’clock on election night to concede, the inner cities will begin to burn minutes later.

Ok, so this WILL be a mess.


5 posted on 05/30/2012 3:17:53 PM PDT by ObamaMustGo2012 (Obama Must Go In 2012)
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To: SMGFan

It won’t happen if you get all those illegals and dead voters off the rolls.


6 posted on 05/30/2012 3:18:21 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: SMGFan

I think there are several ways that Obama could win the popular vote by a million or two....still losing the electoral college. If you figure North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Virginia possibly going to Romney...it puts the President in a difficult situation. Florida becomes a must-win, which a VP Rubio would make that very difficult.

I will say this...if the scenario does happen where a million votes more were on Obama’s side but he loses...it’ll be heck for the next ten years as people try to remove the Electoral College from the system....state by state.


7 posted on 05/30/2012 3:19:10 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: SMGFan
Rothenberg seems to think DC would have a vote if it went to the House. He should read the 12th amendment. A majority of the states is required.

If there is a 269-269 tie, Obama wins. The Democrats or Eric Holder will bribe or blackmail one elector to flip to Obama.

8 posted on 05/30/2012 3:20:53 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: SMGFan

Obama’s going to cheat if he doesn’t win the vote.

Socialists always do.

Watch for all kinds of strange things to happen in the swing states on election night.

Watch for armies of lawyers to be out marching.

Watch for liberal activist judges to be on high alert.

Watch for Activist thugs to be on the move.

The real question is: are we going to let him get away with cheating?


9 posted on 05/30/2012 3:22:18 PM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: GeronL

Friend’s dad passed away early April. A ballot just arrived for him for the primary. Will he be off the rolls in November?


10 posted on 05/30/2012 3:23:17 PM PDT by SMGFan
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To: GeronL
It won’t happen if you get all those illegals and dead voters off the rolls.

The illegals shouldn't be able to vote legally however taking the dead to court and trying to rescind their votes could get very messy.

11 posted on 05/30/2012 3:25:12 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: pepsionice

>> ...it’ll be heck for the next ten years as people try to remove the Electoral College from the system....state by state.

That would take a constitutional amendment... signed off by 2/3 of the states choosing what is NOT in their best interest.

Won’t happen (methinks).

What *could* happen is more states getting on that bandwagon of allocating their EVs based on the overall popular vote. Problem with that strategem is, until ALL agree to do it, it screws the early adopters, so they engage in complex “compacts” that keep it from kicking in until a large number of them agree.

I could be wrong (gasp! No way!) but I don’t think we’ll have to worry about this for decades.


12 posted on 05/30/2012 3:26:01 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Verginius Rufus

I see, they left that out in the XXIII Amendment. Good move, was it ever proposed?


13 posted on 05/30/2012 3:26:59 PM PDT by SMGFan
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To: SMGFan

Thanks for this thread. Most Americans think that we are a Democracy, and therefore the popular vote totals determine the victor Nationally.

What we have is a REPUBLIC, and the victor is determined by our Electoral College.

The Electoral College is one of the essential factors that keep us from being in the same mess as is Europe, past, present and future.


14 posted on 05/30/2012 3:27:15 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: pepsionice

Let me start off that if anyone else has any information on the topic, I’d be pleased to see it (I’ve been looking). I have seen a few articles over the last 3 years or so (I joined 4 years ago, but lurked for a few years before that, but this topic, I believe came up around 2008 or 2009, I want to say just before the 2008 election, and then was never mentioned again after 2009), anyway, I have seen a few articles that said that California, and a few other states have made it so their electoral college delegates are bound to follow the national popular vote, in effect circumventing the electoral college. I don’t remember any of the other states except California, but I want to say I read that 2-3 had already done so, and a big push was being made for the rest to follow suit. If anyone can give more information, I’d appreciate it, but don’t think the electoral process isn’t being changed, it is, behind our backs.


15 posted on 05/30/2012 3:27:57 PM PDT by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/ AND "The fat, spoiled, complacent kid is going on a diet." -Unkus)
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To: ObamaMustGo2012

>> the inner cities will begin to burn minutes later... so this WILL be a mess.

Hmmm... please help me out here — I’m not really seeing the “down side” to this. :-)


16 posted on 05/30/2012 3:28:07 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: SMGFan

>>> with President Barack Obama winning a narrow popular vote victory and losing in the Electoral College

Roger that, and we’ll see about Obama winning anythingm even with their cheating.

When did Roll Call start carrying Dem water?


17 posted on 05/30/2012 3:29:12 PM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: SMGFan

He could be voting for years to come


18 posted on 05/30/2012 3:31:57 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Graewoulf

Florida and 2000 election was 11.5 years ago and yet no one remembers the talk about the electoral college? They must have been busy planning Thanksgiving and Christmas shopping. /s


19 posted on 05/30/2012 3:32:03 PM PDT by SMGFan
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To: Nervous Tick
Hmmm... please help me out here — I’m not really seeing the “down side” to this. :-)

Burning ghettos make a lot of stinking air pollution, for a while.

20 posted on 05/30/2012 3:34:48 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Graewoulf

I’m pretty sure we quit having our Republic during the progressive era, when A) the number of U.S. Representatives was frozen at 435 to keep us from ever being represented and B) Senators quit being appointed by legislatures, and started being voted by popular vote.

The only semblance (it’s not the real thing, merely a shadow of it) we have left of a Republic is the Electoral college, and I have seen a few articles (though it’s been a while), stating that states were making their delegates follow the national popular vote, rather than that of their own state.

No...our Republic died a century ago, had it’s death throes decades ago, and now is reaching room temperature. People never care much abut politics until it’s far, far, too late. The Founding Fathers gave us warnings, insights, and pronounced would-be consequences. They also explained the remedies if we ignored the former.


21 posted on 05/30/2012 3:34:52 PM PDT by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/ AND "The fat, spoiled, complacent kid is going on a diet." -Unkus)
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To: Graewoulf

I always cringe when I hear someone refer to America as a democracy. If it weren’t for the electoral college, a candidate could win 48 states by 100,000 votes each, lose by 2.5 million votes each in California and New York, and lose the election by 200,000 votes.


22 posted on 05/30/2012 3:35:16 PM PDT by Freestate316
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To: SMGFan

It will only be an electoral mess if Hussein is dethroned. There will be burning and looting in the cities, legal challenges, and cries of racist vote suppression. We should fully expect it.


23 posted on 05/30/2012 3:38:58 PM PDT by Freestate316
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To: Verginius Rufus

Aside from the Constitutional issue, I’ve always believed that Eleanor Holmes Norton and Marion Barry were a pretty strong argument against giving DC voting representation in Congress


24 posted on 05/30/2012 3:43:17 PM PDT by Freestate316
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To: JDW11235
Representatives was frozen at 435 to keep us from ever being represented

1900: 76 MILLION / 435 = 175K CITIZENS / REP.

2000: 300 MILLION / 435 = 690K CITIZENS / REP.

1,714 representatives would be required to have the same ratio. I say that would be a good thing. With modern technology they could keep their day jobs and meet maybe twice a year in virtual conferencing.

25 posted on 05/30/2012 3:43:50 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: JDW11235
yep. The slavery issue has always kept most people from realizing that the wrong side won the civil war.

Our Republic died when the South lost. And Lincoln was NOT our greatest president! he was a war criminal!

26 posted on 05/30/2012 3:44:10 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. and the economy died.)
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To: SMGFan

Nope. 45 state landslide, at least.


27 posted on 05/30/2012 3:44:13 PM PDT by Victor (If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert." -David Ben-Gurion, the first Prime Minister)
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To: ObamaMustGo2012
Of course, I’m betting that when Obama goes in front of a national audience around 10 o’clock on election night to concede, the inner cities will begin to burn minutes later.

Let them burn, and don't rebuild them. Let the vermin live in the ashes.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

28 posted on 05/30/2012 3:44:22 PM PDT by cayuga (The next Crusade will be a war of annihilation.)
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To: SMGFan
In answer to the question - "YES".

The system is corrupt, the participants are corrupt and the election process is corrupt, down to the individual precincts.

There are those who worship government and there are those who just wish to be left alone to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

The latter group has not yet figured out how to hack the system. The former group has been hacking the system for decades.

29 posted on 05/30/2012 3:44:22 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: JDW11235

>> the number of U.S. Representatives was frozen at 435 to keep us from ever being represented

You got it.

I was expounding on this topic to Mrs. Tick just a couple weeks ago (poor girl, “for better or for worse” she has to bear the brunt of it...)

We really ought to have 4,350 representatives!

Maybe then, at least, their @#$%^&* voice mail boxes wouldn’t always be full.


30 posted on 05/30/2012 3:46:49 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: SMGFan

I’m thinking he just may get a decent shellacking in both the popular vote, which be indicative of just how unpopular he really is and he will get swamped in the electoral college.

I don’t like Romney but when Americans who previously supported Barry are shown the facts, with an impassioned message, the stark contrast between what has been and what can be will be to great to overcome and Romney will win 40+ states.

I base that number on nothing in particular but that Barry has only a few states that are solidly Democrat. That is, they are not necessarily for Barry but are Democrats nevertheless.

California, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania are locks for Barry.

Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Hampshire are strong for Barry but his hold could slide with only a few mistakes.


31 posted on 05/30/2012 3:48:22 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live athrough it anyway)
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To: SMGFan

The Dems will cry “Let every vote count!” It’s what they used before. And if they win on that line, Obama will not leave office in 2016 because they will do what Chavez and Zelaya did and override the US Constitution.


32 posted on 05/30/2012 3:49:22 PM PDT by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: ObamaMustGo2012
the inner cities will begin to burn minutes later

Probably! I'll plan on serving hot dogs and s'mores for my celebration party.

33 posted on 05/30/2012 3:49:50 PM PDT by AmusedBystander (The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next)
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To: SMGFan

Today Tipper even knows Al sucks


34 posted on 05/30/2012 3:49:52 PM PDT by JIM O
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To: Freestate316
I suspect the 'there will be cities burning, riots int he streets, cats and dogs living together, etc.' meme is a trumped up threat iriginating with the little barry bastard commie thuggery. What is interesting is the lack of black repudiation to this big lie, because it is fundamentally an insult to black people to use them as a threqat to keep a criminal liar in power!

And one more minor point to consider: whom does this threat actually impact? Isn't it the money changers, the insurance companies, and banking powers who already rulke this country by stealth proxy?

35 posted on 05/30/2012 3:51:46 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: JDW11235
The Founding Fathers gave us warnings, insights, and pronounced would-be consequences. They also explained the remedies if we ignored the former.

The reset button...the Second Amendment.

It looks like we will need that sooner than I expected.

36 posted on 05/30/2012 3:53:45 PM PDT by cayuga (The next Crusade will be a war of annihilation.)
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To: SMGFan

It’s not even going to be close. The late ballot counting this time will be to determine whether or not Republicans get 2/3 of the Senate.


37 posted on 05/30/2012 3:58:43 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: SMGFan
There is no reason that couldn’t happen again, with President Barack Obama winning a narrow popular vote victory and losing in the Electoral College.

Another tragic case of HDS (Hopelessly Delusional Syndrome).

38 posted on 05/30/2012 3:59:21 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Clock King

The popular vote tally is meaningless, since in many states absentee votes aren’t even opened if they won’t make a difference in the outcome.


39 posted on 05/30/2012 4:01:22 PM PDT by GreyHoundSailor
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To: SMGFan

Either Obama wins a squeaker or loses BIG.


40 posted on 05/30/2012 4:04:01 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Ineptocracy; the Obama way.)
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To: SMGFan

I think the more likely scenario is Romney winning the popular vote, but Obama winning the EC.


41 posted on 05/30/2012 4:07:57 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: JDW11235

Yes certain states have passed that rule but it doesn’t go into effect until at least states with 270 EV pass it also. The states that passed this so far are all obama states anyway so it affects nothing.


42 posted on 05/30/2012 4:12:31 PM PDT by packrat35 (Admit it! We are almost ready to be called a police state!)
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To: SMGFan

We have to have an Electoral College. Its their responsibility to verify the winner to be eligible. We don’t want any fraudulent people occupying the White House.


43 posted on 05/30/2012 4:19:30 PM PDT by chopperman
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To: GreyHoundSailor

I don’t believe that is true.

In addition there are normally several other items to be voted on on the ballot that have to be counted.


44 posted on 05/30/2012 4:23:11 PM PDT by DB
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To: JDW11235

Yep.


45 posted on 05/30/2012 4:33:21 PM PDT by H.Akston (Sandra Fluke is more like a looter than a slut. At least a slut gives something for what she takes.)
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To: SMGFan

The Electoral Vote tally is,under our Constitution,the *only* one that matters.


46 posted on 05/30/2012 4:35:52 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: SMGFan

“There is no reason that couldn’t happen again, with President Barack Obama winning a narrow popular vote victory and losing in the Electoral College.”

Frankly, Stuart the Poodle, I don’t care.

If you want to fight it out in the streets, I’ll bring my 1stMarDiv buddies, and you can show up with your bloated, purple SEIU cows, and we’ll see who wins.

I’ll bet a dozen doughnuts that you fat slobs scatter at the first shot in the air. I know that will happen because we confronted you pigs before, and you ran into a building, locked yourselves in and cried your little pig eyes out, begging for the cops to rescue you from the mean Tea Party.


47 posted on 05/30/2012 4:52:19 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: Nervous Tick

>>> Maybe then, at least, their @#$%^&* voice mail boxes wouldn’t always be full.

Still won’t hear your voice. Anybody having a spouse/offspring learns ‘selective hearing’ a long time ago.


48 posted on 05/30/2012 5:11:17 PM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Sir Napsalot

>> Anybody having a spouse/offspring learns ‘selective hearing’ a long time ago.

heh... sad, but true.


49 posted on 05/30/2012 5:21:14 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Nervous Tick
The 2/3 ratio is for Congress to propose an amendment. It takes 3/4 of the states to ratify an amendment.

I'm sure with the plan to allocate the electoral votes based on who "wins" the popular vote will only be followed if it means a Democrat wins the election, not if it would benefit a Republican. All it does is encourage additional ballot-stuffing in states that are already going to go Democratic, to run up the popular vote total.

50 posted on 05/30/2012 6:41:20 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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