Skip to comments.Israeli researchers find American Indians with Jewish genetic markers
Posted on 05/30/2012 5:51:03 PM PDT by SJackson
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The use of the term “Jews” here is not appropriate, since they are talking about genetics.
Ashkenaz is not ‘Jewish’ by genetics, but by having adopted Judaism a long time ago. They are not Hebrew in any way.
>> “wasnt Christopher Columbus a converted Jew?” <<
All of the “Italian” surnames that end in an O are originally Jewish immigrants. They all absorbed into the latin culture in the distant past, but do have revealing facial features.
My mother was from two of those families.
Colombo would likely be Jewish.
Perhaps the Rothschilds paid a visit.
I am not trying to rub any salt in any wounds and you have a personal connection to the issue so I have no desire to offend you. I am just going by pure numbers and math which may seem cold, but the post was in reference to average IQ which in and of itself removes the issue from the individual level and speaks of whole groups. A large number of Ashkenzai Jews (who are those with the measured higher average IQ) descend from those Jews living in Poland who had the means to escape to the Soviet Union. It is quite possible that this may have accounted for at least some shift upwards in the average intelligence.
A Woody Allen line
Do you remember the Woody Allen line In my family, the worst sin was paying retail?
Probably what I was thinking of, at least subconsciously.
I’m not offended. Trust me, you would know if I were offended.
IQ testing in the US was not affected by the Holocaust. To few Jews came after the war to change the figures. And the scores were essentially the same in 1960 as they are today, after the introduction of many “Soviet” Jews.
I certainly agree with the first part. This ancestry prowling through DNA is interesting, but imo meaningless. I wonder what other northern European groups share the same genes. The "o" thing I've not heard.
No, though he was clearly sympathetic. The unsubstantiated speculation was that he had a distant Jewish ancestor. While the Reich only went back two generations, grandma and gramps, the Inquisition went back four, great greats, in looking for Jewish ancestry, though that only imposed on you the restrictions of a "new" Christian, much less severe than the Reich. Off topic, but even the Inquisition wouldn't be concerned about Elizabeth Warren's Cherokee "roots".
They were from Utah? :>)
No, she's never been published in a Jewish cookbook, of which there are many. She might have tried, but being Jewish isn't an advantage in the Ivy league, Jews are overrepresented.
Doesn't explain Sammy Davis Jr.
Simple, place names are often descriptors of inhabitants. In this case the descendents of Ashkenaz, Gomer's son. It's true they moved around. No reason not to call the residents of the region in Roman times Gauls or barbarians. But it is a Hebrew name.
Naah, then they'd be bankers and little old winemakers.
Maybe they thought the ‘native’ would win? :O
The “O” ending thing is not 100% reliable, except in Scicily, where it seems to run pretty strong.
It has never been an ‘advertised’ thing, but it is fairly common knowledge within the families.
The same thing sort of works in Romania. I have a friend who is a Romanian immigrant, whose name is Vianu, and he tells me that it is about the same there, except with a U instead of the O. He is a practicing Jew, but his family in Romania shunned their ancestry, and attended a Catholic parish.
Interesting, thanks. Wonder what a last name ending in a means in Kenya.
That’s interesting, although they wouldn’t be Jews at all. They’d be Israelites as the ten tribes hadn’t been scattered yet.
Have you looked into Noah’s Ark lately? Reread the story and you’ll be surprised.
Thank you very much.
That post reminds me of this Dilbert strip:
Today they [Ashkenazis] make up approximately 80 percent of Jews worldwide
SO THEY REALLY ARE THE TRIBE???
Very interesting, thanks.
In Kenya, an A ending means Marxist Socialist Genes.
I believe you said Koestler was a communist,anti Zionist in your first comment. In this post you seem to agree that “Darkness at Noon” was a ‘devastating indictment of communism’. Did Koestler see the error of his ways or did you misstate his position?
But you referred to him as a communist and a hack. Yet you seem to agree that “Darkness at Noon” is both anti-Communist and literature deserving of its high reputation. Which is it?
Actually the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the vowels is like that of the Yemenite Jews who still have a different sound for each letter of the alephbet, unlike the Sefardis or Ashkenazi. Yemenite Jews go back to first temple and not second temple. My Yemenite Siddur actually has more in common with the Ashkenazi than the Sefardi
I read this thread to see who the first person to have a clue as to what happened would post. The Phoenicians and the Carthaginians (a little later) are key to the populating of remote areas with ancient Middle Eastern bloodlines.
I am sorry to sound “glib” but I do not believe that. I know for a fact that Jews from all levels of society were captured and killed and a host of other horrific crimes. However, I cannot believe for one second that 50% of those killed were below average intelligence and 50% were above. It simply defies logic and reason as distasteful as it may be to discuss.
In addition, survival during the holocaust was certainly less dependent upon affluence as escape prior to the holocaust would have been. If even 2 in 10 bankers managed to pay their way out before the killings commenced, they would have doubled the rate for other survivors. When 90% of a population is killed even a tiny difference can make a large percentage change.”
Depending on where you lived, it was easier or harder or impossible to get out, if you were one of those who foresaw that the danger was greater than usual. How many do you think were clairvoyant and could anticipate a Holocaust? One of the main reasons that 9/11 succeeded, according to the 9/11 Report was “failure of imagination.” From my hearing and reading hundreds of firsthand accounts from survivors of the Holocaust, the factor that differentiated survivors from non-survivors was luck. Some were hiding in the forests, others were hidden by righteous gentiles. Intelligence wasn't the factor. Simpler peasant Jews understood better than higher society what the potential for evil was among their neighbors. A locked case is a locked cage.
A locked cage is a locked cage and hunger and unsanitary conditions and backbreaking work or hiding in a crack of space accelerate illness, disease and the end of the story.
Unfortunately, 80% of that same group vote straight democrat.
Yes, I believe I have heard that before. Thank you.
I think you may have missed my point. I am not saying smarter people figured out a way to escape. The point I made was that people of means were more likely to escape. And people of means have a higher intelligence on average which is the discussion at hand. Even during the Nazi rule, Germany allowed emigration by Jews, but most countries would not take them. One of the ways to get out was by guarantee which was essentially a payment. Running up to the takeover of Poland many Jews escaped to the Soviet Union. If you had no money you would not have the means to pack up and move your family. Again, as I posted earlier, if even 2 in 10 rich men were able to escape that is double the average rate and would put upward pressure on average IQ.
Againg, I suggest you read The Hare with Amber Eyes, among other firsthand accounts. People of means were less likely than to leave before it was too late. If they were among the minority who owned factories or other thriving businesses, they perceived that they had a lot to lose by leaving it all behind and thought that they could whether whatever was coming as they had past pogroms, etc. It may seem counter intuitive to you, but that’s they way it was. You are right that people in Germany had more chance of leaving in the 1930s, had they decided to do so.