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CHL holder fired shot that killed store clerk(TX)
myfoxhouston.com ^ | 30 May, 2012 | Sally MacDonald

Posted on 05/31/2012 4:43:11 AM PDT by marktwain

HOUSTON (FOX 26) -

Houston Police confirm it was a customer with a concealed handgun license who accidentally shot and killed a store clerk. The CHL holder was trying to protect Tyrza Smith, 26, from armed robbers, but something went terribly wrong and she was killed.

It happened on May 17 at the Family Dollar located at 6951 Bellfort in southeast Houston.

Police say Dwight Richardson, 20, and another man who hasn't been arrested are accused of bursting into the store, locking the front door and holding a gun to the clerk's head.

"They come in, they got guns out and they're threatening people in there. The CHL holder had every right to defend himself and that clerk," said Fox 26 legal analyst Chris Tritico.

The customer tried to leave but noticed the door was locked.

He pulled out his weapon and got in a gunfight with the robbers. Smith was caught in the crossfire, and ballistics tests show the CHL holder killed her.

Should the customer have pulled his weapon, especially since most robbers are happy just getting the cash?

It's a split second decision all legal gun holders pray they'll never face.

Kyle Dekay learned in his CHL class to turn and run unless there's an immediate threat to life.

"If at all possible, if there's a small opening, get out of there. Hightail it. The last thing you should ever do is go and draw for your weapon," he said.

Gun dealer Jim Pruett can't say for sure what he would have done.

"It's a tough one, and every situation demands a different reaction," Pruett said.

Each year there are thousands of cases of gun owners successfully defending themselves. Tritico says it will likely be up to a grand jury to decide whether the CHL holder was justified in shooting his gun.

"That's what we have to look at. What was this person thinking? What was he feeling? What were the circumstances at the time he pulled his weapon out?"

The CHL holder could still be sued in civil court even if the deadly force is found to be justified.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: accident; banglist; ccw; tx
If enough people defend themselves, there is bound to be some collateral damage. When you fire a gun, you are responsible for where the projectile ends up.
1 posted on 05/31/2012 4:43:17 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.


2 posted on 05/31/2012 4:44:23 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk; marktwain
CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.

Stupid comment.

3 posted on 05/31/2012 4:48:55 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: yldstrk

“CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.”

Well, if he got his CHL in Texas he did have to qualify on the range. It’s a static environment shooting at targets at known distances. The issue is not about learning how to shoot. The missing ingredient is knowing how to shoot under stress. To do this take a lot of practice in dynamic situations during which one develops muscle memory that will take over for the mind when $h1t hits the fan. But, alias, this requires a lot of time and a LOT of practice. Won’t happen.....


4 posted on 05/31/2012 4:51:52 AM PDT by snoringbear (Government is the Pimp,)
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To: yldstrk
CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.

You don't know that. She may have moved into the way, or the perp may have tried to use her as a sheild. It's real easy to be an armchair critic, a bit harder when people are moving and shooting at you.

5 posted on 05/31/2012 4:51:52 AM PDT by Hugin ("Most times a man'll tell you his bad intentions, if you listen and let yourself hear."---Open Range)
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To: yldstrk
CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.

Not knowing all the whole story I wouldn't be jumping on the shooter right now. he may have very well been able to handle the gun and shoot properly but the clerk might have jumped in between the 2 shooters causing her demise. or possibly a richaette.

6 posted on 05/31/2012 4:53:27 AM PDT by bikerman (Obama lied,economy died.)
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To: Hugin

ok you are right


7 posted on 05/31/2012 4:55:45 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk
CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.

No one knows how they'll handle a combat situation until they're in one.
8 posted on 05/31/2012 4:56:17 AM PDT by Renderofveils (My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. - Nabokov)
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To: Renderofveils

True and this guy messed up bad


9 posted on 05/31/2012 4:57:14 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: marktwain

It is always a tough choice to make to shoot or not.

Even more so when others are involved.

Gun fights are very fuild just being in the wrong place at the wrong time can get you shot.

Hitting a third party is never good.


10 posted on 05/31/2012 4:58:07 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: sam_paine

no, true enough. There are a lot of people who believe in gun rights but don’t learn enough to be safe before they carry. The proof is in the pudding as they say. Are you satisfied with this result? Wouldn’t the innocent party be better off just robbed and not dead?


11 posted on 05/31/2012 4:59:09 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: marktwain
For a second, I read "CHL (Eric) Holder fired the shot..." etecetera.

I was like, "WOW, dude was deeper in Murdergate than I ever suspected!!!"

12 posted on 05/31/2012 5:01:09 AM PDT by Lazamataz (People who resort to Godwin's Law are just like Hitler.)
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To: marktwain

This is a tragedy that the MSM will milk for all it’s worth to tell the public that guns are bad.

I don’t know what happened, but I’m sure that this man feels terrible now; the clerk’s death is something he’ll never forget. He surely was trying to help. I pray for him.


13 posted on 05/31/2012 5:01:31 AM PDT by proud American in Canada
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To: yldstrk

The robbers caused her death. Period. Doesn’t matter where the bullet came from. When they are caught, they will be charged with murder.


14 posted on 05/31/2012 5:05:05 AM PDT by Blennos
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To: yldstrk

Another stupid comment


15 posted on 05/31/2012 5:05:12 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: yldstrk
CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.

Do you think that stress and fear might have affected his aim?

16 posted on 05/31/2012 5:07:13 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: yldstrk
CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin.

I've seen incidents very much like this where it was an off-duty cop who, despite his years of training, accidentally killed the victim while failing to cut a single hair on the armed assailant. Training can't negate all the bad stuff that can happen in these situations.

17 posted on 05/31/2012 5:10:58 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: yldstrk; Blennos
The robbers caused her death. Period. Doesn’t matter where the bullet came from. When they are caught, they will be charged with murder.

Exactly.And if I understand Texas law correctly the robbers could get the hot squat...murder while committing a robbery.

18 posted on 05/31/2012 5:11:35 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: yldstrk
Wouldn’t the innocent party be better off just robbed and not dead?

...that's an assumption, probably 20 years ago. Today's armed robbers, steal and then murder. The authors comment about crooks being "happy to just get the cash" is interesting....and if there wasn't enough cash, would they be "happy"?

19 posted on 05/31/2012 5:12:12 AM PDT by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
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To: Gay State Conservative

Hey believe me I understand felony-murder. And yes, EVERYONE with a gun should understand there WILL be a review if they shoot, duh.


20 posted on 05/31/2012 5:18:25 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Doogle
Very sad.

The bigger story here is this: the media will never fail to run with a story where a firearm is used and the outcome is bad. "Man with gun holds family hostage"; "Gunman storms workplace, three dead" -- and on and on it goes.

However the media almost never run with a story where the outcome makes gun owners look good.

Somehow -- they need to be held to account for this -- letters to editors, whatever.

21 posted on 05/31/2012 5:19:27 AM PDT by Jerrybob (Truth -- the new hate speech.)
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To: yldstrk
Hey believe me I understand felony-murder. And yes, EVERYONE with a gun should understand there WILL be a review if they shoot, duh.

Good God...you just don't get it!

22 posted on 05/31/2012 5:23:57 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Julia: another casualty of the "War on Poverty")
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To: Blennos
The robbers caused her death. Period. Doesn’t matter where the bullet came from. When they are caught, they will be charged with murder.

Replace "CHL holder" with "policeman" and there would be zero questions of charges.

I would like to see the same standards applied to all citizens, whether they have a badge or not. It would require some changes concerning the handling of both.

23 posted on 05/31/2012 5:24:38 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: yldstrk; marktwain; sam_paine; snoringbear; Hugin; bikerman; Renderofveils; riverrunner; ...
yldstrk: CHL holder should have learned how to shoot before carrying. What a cretin....Wouldn’t the innocent party be better off just robbed and not dead?

Ok. Fair enough. Let's extend yldstrk's point to the extreme. To what extent, if any, does the clerk have a responsibility to learn how not to become a victim?

Surely she is more likely to find herself with a gun pointed at her than a CHL carrier is likely to have to point one.

What training does Dollar General give her? Did she follow it? Does it account for innocent bystanders? Does it account for CHLs?

Hard to say, but how much could the victim have done to save her own life, CHL or not?

Why hadn't the perps already left? Why did they lock the door if they were in/out without intent to kill?

24 posted on 05/31/2012 5:39:49 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: SampleMan
The same standard for all Citizens?! What do you think this is...America or something?!

The rise of the police state in this country with politicians and other politically connected classes getting away with things that would have other people thrown in prison is becoming increasingly hard to take. We fought against being ruled by royalty only to create a neo-royalty.

I digress though, like you I would like to see the all citizens held to the same standard. This case is tragic but the CHL holder should not face any charges.

25 posted on 05/31/2012 5:39:49 AM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: yldstrk

When the robbers lock the door, they aren’t there just for money. Odds are, the clerk was going to die regardless and so was the CCW holder.

A life threatening situation means, by definition, someone can die. A gun isn’t always going to turn that around, not 100% of the time against armed robbers.


26 posted on 05/31/2012 5:47:32 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: sam_paine
What training does Dollar General give her? Did she follow it? Does it account for innocent bystanders? Does it account for CHLs?

don't know about dollar general, but having worked in restaurants for almost 20 years, i have been taught by several managers the same two things.
first, try to comply. give them the money, it's not worth your life.
second: if they try to move you to an office, storeroom, walk-in cooler, or any small, lockable room, go ape s*** on them, because they're about to kill you.
27 posted on 05/31/2012 5:58:23 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: absolootezer0
go ape s*** on them, because they're about to kill you.

Could very likely have been what happened.

28 posted on 05/31/2012 6:03:10 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: marktwain
So did the bad guys get a away? Did the CHL holder shoot the bad guys also? I assume the CHL holder lived or there wouldn't be the hand-wringing over this story.

Why do they even call it news? Do we have any facts on the story besides the pant-wetting journalists comments on the evil CHL holder? Jeez.......

29 posted on 05/31/2012 6:19:44 AM PDT by Envisioning (Call me a racist........, one more time..........)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Well, tell “it” to me.

OK, one good thing, at least CLH survived, is that what I didn’t get? I didn’t get that til just now, true. Glad you are so brilliant you get everything all at once. Happy fer ya


30 posted on 05/31/2012 6:31:39 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: sam_paine
We really don't have a enough information on what the CCW holder did or did not do or what the bad guy did or did not do or what the clerk did or did not do.

The media only gave us so much info what are they holding back to make CCW holders look bad.

Did the bad guy push or grab her into the line of fire did she trip and fall did she jump.

So many unandswed questions.

31 posted on 05/31/2012 6:48:41 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: yldstrk

Are you a complete idiot, or has a complete idiot hijacked your account?


32 posted on 05/31/2012 6:55:48 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Durus

The United States of America is not a “police state.”


33 posted on 05/31/2012 6:57:53 AM PDT by Tarantulas ( Illegal immigration - the trojan horse that's treated like a sacred cow)
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To: Blennos
The robbers caused her death. Period. Doesn’t matter where the bullet came from. When they are caught, they will be charged with murder.

Thank you.

Still, the outcome really sucks and I'm glad I'm not that particular citizen. I hope he has a combat veteran in his family or circle of friend ... he could probably benefit from informal "counseling" from somebody who has "been there".

34 posted on 05/31/2012 7:01:15 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: riverrunner; Lazamataz
We really don't have a enough information on what the CCW holder did or did not do or what the bad guy did or did not do or what the clerk did or did not do.

LOL. Laz used to say he'd been proudly commenting on articles without reading them for years.

The new standard for freepers is to comment and conclude based on merely the slant of the headline intended by the author.

We don't need the article, the author's bias or anything. Just the editor's headline!

35 posted on 05/31/2012 7:03:30 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Look Arrogant,

I may be a complete idiot, but you haven’t explained why you think I am one. Is that in your realm of capability?


36 posted on 05/31/2012 7:15:19 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Tarantulas

I didn’t say it was, however it’s increasingly getting to that point and if you can’t see it you are worse then blind.


37 posted on 05/31/2012 7:43:10 AM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: yldstrk
You (or the idiot who hijacked your account) ASSumed that the CHL shooter didn't know how to shoot, and was a cretin.

And I'm not the only one who raked you over the coals for your stupid comment.

Yeah ... the outcome of this shooting sucks.

Sometimes, life sucks no matter what you do (or don't do).

Did somebody tell you that life was fair?

If so, track him (or more likely, her) down and punch her in the nose ... life's not fair. Death isn't fair, either.

Do you comprehend that? Is that in your realm of capability?

38 posted on 05/31/2012 7:53:32 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: sam_paine

Add a laser to the pistol.

It’s hard to miss.

My shooting went from unacceptable to outstanding.


39 posted on 05/31/2012 8:43:06 AM PDT by darth
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To: marktwain

This robbery took place just a few blocks away from my business. Likely I have seen the robbers as they walked down the street.

This neighborhood is rougher than a stucco bathtub.


40 posted on 05/31/2012 8:49:10 AM PDT by darth
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To: marktwain
The CHL holder could still be sued in civil court even if the deadly force is found to be justified.

That is something we need to fix here in Texas.I like Florida's take on that with their 'stand your ground' law.

Unfortunately, we can't even seem to get open carry in a state where "republicans" own the house, senate, and governorship. Thanks a lot, Rick.

41 posted on 05/31/2012 9:13:22 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: marktwain

We all know that some armed robbers execute their victims so there won’t be witnesses. If I am trapped in a locked building by masked gunmen, I will assume my worst fears are about to happen. I will not judge the actions of the CHL holder that felt compelled to draw his weapon in self defense. If I carried, I likely would have done the same.


42 posted on 05/31/2012 9:46:45 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: marktwain

The ones responsible for this are the criminals and they should be charged with murder.


43 posted on 05/31/2012 10:49:56 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: zeugma

True.


44 posted on 05/31/2012 10:51:14 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I, more than most, know life isn’t fair. Having to tolerate this life is brutal


45 posted on 05/31/2012 3:54:44 PM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk

“Having to tolerate this life is brutal”

a/ you’ll get over it.

b/ Wait to you check out (the alternative)...


46 posted on 06/01/2012 12:46:33 AM PDT by Yehuda (http://jewpoint.blogspot.com)
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To: Yehuda

Well, they say life is a gift, but some days it feels more like a curse.


47 posted on 06/01/2012 5:03:14 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk
I ... know life isn’t fair.

Good. So, you understand that your comment was moronic. Cretinous even.

Good day, sir.

48 posted on 06/01/2012 5:35:34 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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