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Twenty Things this Conservative Believes
Townhall.com ^ | June 1, 2012 | John Hawkins

Posted on 05/31/2012 10:21:17 PM PDT by Kaslin

1) Any illegal alien caught in this country should be forever barred from legally visiting this country, working here, or becoming an American citizen.

2) If you take welfare or food stamps or if your kids have to get free meals at school, you should be ashamed. Your kids should feel ashamed by your failure, too.

3) There is no such thing as a conflict between Christianity and science or a reason for any Christian to have his religious beliefs override any conclusions that he'd reach by simply following the science. Any and all apparent conflicts between science and God are just a result of our limited human understanding. If there was evolution, God chose that path. If the world was created by a "Big Bang," God set it in motion.

4) William Bennett once said it was "morally plausible" to execute drug dealers. I agree with him. I'd also like to see the death penalty expanded to cover rape and child molestation as well.

5) It's unlikely to ever happen, but we'd be much better off in this country if the voting age were 25 and only people who paid income tax could vote.

6) All people except the poor should be paying enough in taxes to cover all the services they receive from the government each year. If they don't want to pay that much, then we should cut government down to a level that they think is worth paying.

7) On average, government workers should make less than people who do the same jobs in private industry.

8) Government workers also shouldn't be allowed to unionize. The Democrats give the government unions more taxpayer money and the unions take part of that money and use it to campaign for the Democrats, who then promise to give them more money in return. It's nothing but the Democratic Party and the unions collaborating against the taxpayers.

9) Ninety nine times out of a hundred when someone cries racism, it's either a lame excuse or a political tactic.

10) If you're a Christian, then your faith requires you to oppose gay marriage.

11) I wish the best for people everywhere, but I'm not a citizen of the world. I'm an American and our country comes first.

12) The biggest threat to America's future isn't Al-Qaeda, China, or Iran; it's our own government spending so much money that it bankrupts the country.

13) If you sue someone and lose, you should have to pay his legal bills.

14) Hand counting ballots is LESS ACCURATE than machine counting them and it allows human beings to manipulate the results of the election with arbitrary counting standards.

15) People who think black Americans are too stupid and incompetent to handle getting a voter ID are just as racist as the KKK, although they show it differently.

16) If public universities want to hire terrorists and communists to teach their classes, harass Christians, push around Republican groups, and bring in liberal speakers, but not conservatives, then state legislators should cut off their taxpayer funding until they behave.

17) We don't need to get religion out of politics; we need to get more religion in politics. The politicians certainly don't seem to have any qualms about stepping into areas better left to the church; so pastors have to be willing to encourage their flocks to vote their values to protect themselves from a rapacious government.

18) The whole purpose of our immigration system should be to benefit the Americans who are already here. Therefore, we should favor the best and brightest emigrants from Western cultures. Other immigrants to this country who get in because of family ties should have someone who's willing to vouch for them and take care of them if they have hard times. No naturalized American citizens should ever be eligible for food stamps, welfare, school lunches, or any other hand-outs from their fellow citizens.

19) You can no more change your sex than you can change from a human being into a Water Buffalo. Believing otherwise is a mental disorder that should be handled by a psychologist, not catered to with surgery. A doctor wouldn't cut off a healthy person's leg if he asked or cut out part of someone's brain because a voice in his head wanted it and sex change operations shouldn't be done either.

20) People who've served time in prison for committing a felony may have been punished, but they haven't "paid their debt to society." Repaying their debt would require them to be rehabilitated and to fully compensate their victims, which isn't even possible in some cases. Additionally, even if society forgives, it shouldn't forget. There's no way a felon should ever have the right to vote, own a gun, or teach children among other activities.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: aliens; conservatism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 05/31/2012 10:21:21 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

I agree with most of you pronouncements. Yet, number 14 bothers me. As a poll worker I find your number 14 untenable.

If I want to write in a candidate not on the ballet ... nary a polling machine will let you do that.


2 posted on 05/31/2012 10:31:22 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Kaslin
I like the shame part. Perhaps there's a place for shunning, too.

yitbos

3 posted on 05/31/2012 10:34:52 PM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Kaslin

“3)There is no such thing as a conflict between Christianity and science...”

I know, and agree. It can be frustrating to explain, but science is only discovering the existing physical laws that God created along with the Universe. Science isn’t about truth, only proofs about how the physical world operates. That isn’t evil - it is the people utilyzing science for their own selfish ends who are evil.


4 posted on 05/31/2012 10:37:15 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: Kaslin

#20

From a news article here in California.

Stewart is fighting multiple felonies filed against him for the production and distribution of farm fresh raw milk, or milk that is sold unpasteurized.

Is this the felon you want to punish.

Many of these are simplistic and need to be better thought out.


5 posted on 05/31/2012 10:46:35 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (Entropy isn't what it used to be)
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To: Kaslin
"morally plausible to execute drug dealers. I agree"

That's hard core leftist totalitarianism. Get grounded before you declare your manifesto.


6 posted on 05/31/2012 10:48:02 PM PDT by I see my hands (If you say what you think then no one will like you.)
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To: SatinDoll

Most scientists are stunned when they figure out a basic truth.


7 posted on 05/31/2012 10:49:35 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Kaslin

Your #2 is too categorical for me. If you have a disability that leaves you dependent, there’s no reason to be ashamed.


8 posted on 05/31/2012 10:54:53 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: SatinDoll

Exactly.


9 posted on 05/31/2012 11:00:15 PM PDT by Jagdgewehr (It will take blood)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

I am with you on 2. It would be much better stated like:

2. You should not be proud to receive welfare or food stamps or if your kids have to get free meals at school. You should however be grateful to your fellow citizens who provide this aid to you.

As you are there are some people, we as a society want to help out, the injured or people born with disabilities. What we would like is for people who get aid from us to be humble and grateful to us for providing it.


10 posted on 05/31/2012 11:13:38 PM PDT by JLS (How to turn a recession into a depression: elect a Dem president with a big majorities in Congress))
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To: Kaslin

I think your “manifesto” is complete garbage!!!! Will I get a trial in your Right Wing Christian Social Democracy or will I be summarily executed????? Really man, this is way over the top, I think you need to go back to the drawing board here. This is America (barely) but this religious fanaticism won’t sell. Why does every so called “conservative” in the US have to always revert to the Christian card. Come on man, really religion is a personal issue, as christian I do not have believe in what you say.....sorry. Because even though I am a christian, I am a American first and I have a right to tell you to take a hike, on gay marriage, abortion, capital punishment, prayer in school etc...... The US is a Republic not a Democracy, and as such I do not have to listen to all your self rightous rantings. This is what the average American wants from the Government:

LEAVE US THE H*LL ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


11 posted on 05/31/2012 11:45:11 PM PDT by jazzo (MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: SatinDoll
It can be frustrating to explain, but science is only discovering the existing physical laws that God created along with the Universe. Science isn’t about truth, only proofs about how the physical world operates. That isn’t evil - it is the people utilyzing science for their own selfish ends who are evil.

Nicely said. I became a scientist out of fascination with the wonders God has created, not out of some desire to explain Him away. I remain in awe of Our Creator to this day as I see and understand the complex simplicity of His handiwork.

12 posted on 05/31/2012 11:56:24 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Kaslin

#3

The Sciences are a study of God’s creation (Ps. 19:1; Romans 1:20)


13 posted on 06/01/2012 12:16:08 AM PDT by donna (The fruits of Feminism: Angry fathers, bitter mothers, fat kids and political correctness.)
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To: jazzo

“Why does every so called “conservative” in the US have to always revert to the Christian card.”

Christianity is the most true religion. It is not something people cooked up, like Scientology. It is our response to what God has told us of his nature. Without Christianity, conservative principles have no more grounding than communism or any other whacko woo-woo cult.

What we call conservatism arises out of Christianity, and is supported and guided by it. It is a seamless garment.

It’s not that Christians are trying to tell you you must do or believe in certain things. Rather, it is that your position lacks logical consistency if you don’t.


14 posted on 06/01/2012 12:26:47 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dsc

Really? Christianity is the most true religion? Says you. So if I believe that the rights of the individual supercede those of the collective, I have to be a Christian or it lacks logical consistancy??? So I have to believe your way or I don’t have a logical base for my beliefs???? Priceless, “our way or the highway”. That is pathetic, this is why your “Christians” are seen as a joke, and give a bad name to the rest of us christians.


15 posted on 06/01/2012 1:13:34 AM PDT by jazzo (MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: jazzo
Chill man.

You say you have the right tell anyone you disagree with to take a hike! Yup and you just did. Feel better?

You write "as such I do not have to listen to all your self righteous rantings." Yup, that's correct! Now ask yourself, why did you?

Not only did you listen to it, you felt the need to respond. That is good and excellent. Shows passion and deep belief in ones principals.

John Hawkins has every right to express his belief system in what makes himself a conservative.

Now I would bet all my conservative values there is not one person on this forum who would agree with every single point he makes. But that does not make him nor anyone who disagree, belief system garbage. Nor does it make them any "less conservative.

Now if you can "politely" (intellectually might be a reach) articulate your thoughts, I suppose those around you, your family, acquaintances and even people like me who you desire, as you say "take a hike" would be very interested in what you have to say

I found the subject very interesting. Of course I can't agree on all that which he speaks of, but I came across your comments and lost any interest on furthering the conversation. I bet alot of those who surround you do the same.

Save your key strokes, no need to write, I already know and will even say for you . . . Yes, I will go take a hike.

16 posted on 06/01/2012 1:39:44 AM PDT by saywhatagain
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To: jazzo
Why does every so called “conservative” in the US have to always revert to the Christian card

God is mentioned four times in the Declaration of Independence and Jesus is mentioned once in the Constitution.

17 posted on 06/01/2012 2:01:13 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: doc1019
If I want to write in a candidate not on the ballet(sic) ... nary a polling machine will let you do that.

Why not? OCRs have been around for a long time. How do you think the USPS gets your hand written envelope makes it to the proper address?

18 posted on 06/01/2012 2:20:17 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Kaslin

“7) On average, government workers should make less than people who do the same jobs in private industry.”

The merit system is key here! Pay the good ones but fire the slackers.

Government workers should not have a “right” to protect “their turf” through collective extortion upon the taxpayer. It’s the taxpayers turf!
If they earn higher pay, they deserve it but, guaranteed job stability and enhanced benefits is the real problem.


19 posted on 06/01/2012 2:33:24 AM PDT by outofsalt ("If History teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything")
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To: Kaslin
12) The biggest threat to America's future isn't Al-Qaeda, China, or Iran; it's our own government spending so much money that it bankrupts the country.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The biggest threat to America is our government K-12 schooling. If children attend tuition-free, socialist-entitlement, godless, and compulsory schools they risk learning to be comfortable with:

—socialist-entitlement programs

— Getting other free stuff from their neighbor besides “free” school

— Government compulsion

— They **will** learn to think and reason godlessly. They must just to cooperate in the classroom. How could it be otherwise?

—Since all schools trash First Amendment Rights, those attending government schools learn to be comfortable with the government trashing those God-given rights.

20 posted on 06/01/2012 2:44:44 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion mill.)
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To: jazzo

Conservative values are clearly biblical-the correlation between hard work and success, laziness and poverty, charity being from the heart on an individual basis, not through forced taxation. Personal and governmental responsibility and accountability, the correlation between righteous leadership and a nation’s success,the value of human life and the worth of the individual, sound fiscal policy, providing for one’s family, being a responsible citizen, spouse, and parent, and so much more. Once upon a time, every dollar in circulation in this country was backed up by gold. Money had actual value. Now, the cash in your wallet is a promissory note, with nothing of real value to back it up except our national willingness to acknowledge its value. That’s how I look at my conservative values. Biblical truth is the gold that backs up and provides eternal value to my conservative beliefs. I am conservative to the core, and literally thank God every day for allowing me to live in the greatest nation that’s ever existed. However, as much as I love America, I am a Christian first.


21 posted on 06/01/2012 2:47:56 AM PDT by Freestate316
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To: dsc

Well said!


22 posted on 06/01/2012 2:52:28 AM PDT by Freestate316
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To: jazzo

I’m getting my hiking boots and backpack ready, but just to understand, what is “your Christians” and “the rest of us Christians?” Your anger at social conservative opposition to gay marriage, abortion, and prayer in school has a libertarian feel to it.


23 posted on 06/01/2012 3:07:43 AM PDT by Freestate316
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To: Kaslin

I have a problem with this statement.

“5) It’s unlikely to ever happen, but we’d be much better off in this country if the voting age were 25 and only people who paid income tax could vote. “

They LOWERED the voting age to 18 in 1972, from 21. Today, in Obama’s world, at 25, you could still be living under mama’s wing, insurance, etc. I’ve seen more useful idiots with college degrees at 25, than most folks have seen in their lifetime! (I worked at your local state ‘get-=a-job’ office for three years, until I retired.)


24 posted on 06/01/2012 3:21:20 AM PDT by Terry L Smith
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To: Kaslin

21) Hillary Clinton, instead of being in prison for the numerous felonies she committed (accessory to murder, theft, perjury, suborning perjury, theft of over 900 FBI files, etc.), will be on the ticket in November.


25 posted on 06/01/2012 3:43:59 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: ALPAPilot

“...Jesus is mentioned once in the Constitution...”
-
Are you referring to this?

“...in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven...”

Pretty hard to call that a religious reference.


26 posted on 06/01/2012 4:45:27 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: Kaslin

#20 is a no go for me. A right is a right and the 2nd amendment says shall not be infringed. So unless the government is going to incarcerate forever and ensure their safety at 100% then they cannot take away the 2nd Amendment and a person’s right and ability to protect him or herself.


27 posted on 06/01/2012 5:08:58 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Kaslin
As a Patriotic, Christian, Vet, I would probably consider myself to the "Right" of Atilla the Hun (or so the saying goes) but some of these screeds in this Manifesto are beyond the pale and give ammunition to those on the Left who attack we Conservatives as being "Neanderthals" in our thinking.

Put into play and accepted, many of these precepts would shred our Constitution and those God-given rights, liberties and freedoms therein, we Cons so respect, cherish and sacrifice to protect at all costs.

28 posted on 06/01/2012 5:38:29 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: Kaslin

1) Any illegal alien caught in this country should be forever barred from legally visiting this country, working here, or becoming an American citizen.

Agreed. We should have a database of DNA and fingerprints on everyone caught entering the US illegally or already here, and they should all be permanently barred from any path to citizenship.

2) If you take welfare or food stamps or if your kids have to get free meals at school, you should be ashamed. Your kids should feel ashamed by your failure, too.

Again, I agree. There are times to accept charity, but it should be taken with a humble heart, and people should be so embarrassed to take charity that they will do anything legal to avoid that situation as soon as it is avoidable.

3) There is no such thing as a conflict between Christianity and science . . .

Science is an explanation of natural events. God is by definition supernatural and outside the scope of science.

4) . . . I’d also like to see the death penalty expanded to cover rape and child molestation as well.

The Supremes blew this one a few years ago when they ruled that a pervert who raped children could not be executed for his crime simply because he didn’t kill anyone. [Kennedy v. Louisiana - in which Kennedy raped his 8 y/o stepdaughter, severely injuring her so that she required surgery, but the little girl lived.]

9) Ninety nine times out of a hundred when someone cries racism, it’s either a lame excuse or a political tactic.

Trayvon Martin, Tawana Brawley, Crystal Mangum, and many others come to mind.

10) If you’re a Christian, then your faith requires you to oppose gay marriage.

I defer to God on this question. Personally, I find homosexual acts gross but not much different from some heterosexual couples where I can’t imagine what either one sees in the other. God provided better guidance than my instincts: homosexual acts are unnatural and are unacceptable to Him.

15) People who think black Americans are too stupid and incompetent to handle getting a voter ID are just as racist as the KKK, although they show it differently.

Liberals are by far the most racist people in America. They believe blacks could not compete on a level playing field. When they call us racist, it’s because we believe blacks are perfectly capable of being the best possible person for a job based on ability and the content of their character, without giving them extra credit for the color of their skin.

19) You can no more change your sex than you can change from a human being into a Water Buffalo. Believing otherwise is a mental disorder that should be handled by a psychologist, not catered to with surgery.

I’ve never understood how a surgeon could agree to mutilate a person’s healthy body in response to mental illness. Doctors should be ashamed of such conduct.


29 posted on 06/01/2012 5:52:11 AM PDT by Pollster1 (A boy becomes a man when a man is needed - John Steinbeck)
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To: Kaslin

Number 18:

We can thank Fat Teddy (now sober two years and 10 months) for his 1965 immigration “reform” which allows other country’s dregs into the U.S.


30 posted on 06/01/2012 5:57:25 AM PDT by Peet (Everything has an end -- only the sausage has two.)
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To: Kaslin
"4) William Bennett once said it was "morally plausible" to execute drug dealers. I agree with him. I'd also like to see the death penalty expanded to cover rape and child molestation as well."

The death penalty should be on the table for any crime which the victim would have been justified in resisting with deadly force.

In such cases, it is the criminal himself who has subordinated the value of his life to the fruits of the crime. Here in Louisiana, we did, until relatively recently, have the death penalty for the aggravated rape of a minor, and we had the only person on death row in the entire nation for a crime other than capital murder. SCOTUS shot it down.

31 posted on 06/01/2012 6:06:45 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: doc1019

Voting machines in Charlotte, NC allow for writing in candidates. Sort of like signing the little machine when you use your credit card.


32 posted on 06/01/2012 6:11:59 AM PDT by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: Kaslin

Pretty good.
My only issue is #4 - the unintended consequence of executing criminals is that they will be willing to kill more to cover up their crimes. Maybe if we added “death by immuration (live burial)” for individuals who kill to cover up their crimes?


33 posted on 06/01/2012 6:22:31 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: saywhatagain

Excellent reply


34 posted on 06/01/2012 6:32:51 AM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: Pollster1; Kaslin
I have an issue with:

2) If you take welfare or food stamps or if your kids have to get free meals at school, you should be ashamed. Your kids should feel ashamed by your failure, too.

There is no reason for a child to feel shame or be shamed by the actions of their parents.

Being broke or bankrupt is not a good reason to feel shame either.

Failure needs to be seen for what it is, a stumble on the path to success. - Giving up is the real failure. Persistence should be rewarded.

Many of our greatest people have risen from a poor environment to become rich.

It should be nothing to be ashamed of, it should be a motivational factor for success.

Welfare should be temporary and fleeting as those who are there are inspired to rise above temporary conditions.

I think it was Bill Cosby who, when talking about his childhood, stated his father said he was busted and not poor. Poor is a long term, systemic problem. Busted is short term.

35 posted on 06/01/2012 7:12:30 AM PDT by Only1choice____Freedom (FDR had the New Deal. President 0bama has the Raw Deal.)
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To: jazzo

A Christian, is a Christian first.

Thankfully, the Lord blessed me by allowing me to be an American.

BUT, Jesus comes first.


36 posted on 06/01/2012 8:07:32 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: ALPAPilot

Where is Jesus mentioned in the US Constitution? Would like to know.


37 posted on 06/01/2012 8:13:58 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

I am happy for you. But fortunately for the rest of us, your side did not “carry the day” “back in the day”. Americans do not have to believe in your “Jesus” to be American, and that is a “Fact Jack”!!!!


38 posted on 06/01/2012 8:33:14 AM PDT by jazzo (MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Freestate316

I am a liberatarian sir, and I am not “angered at social consevative opposition” to anything. I am offended by statements in the article trying to tell “Christians” how they must feel on these issues. And yes I may not fall on the same side of these issues as republicans, however I respect your right to disagree with me. I do not repect anyones right to tell me as Liberatarian, a Christian, or as I man what I “must” believe on these issues. That’s all, enjoy your hike.


39 posted on 06/01/2012 8:50:15 AM PDT by jazzo (MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: RoadGumby
“...in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven...”
40 posted on 06/01/2012 10:34:09 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: Repeal The 17th
Pretty hard to call that a religious reference.

Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names.

The reference is hardly ambiguous, and they chose the possessive pronoun instead of the definite article. They balanced it with with a reference to the Declaration of Independence.

I don't believe they wrote carelessly or mindlessly.

41 posted on 06/01/2012 10:45:41 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: jazzo; wagglebee

Moral Absolutes Ping.

Pretty good truths here. Unless someone - like jazzo - is a liberal and these piss you off.


42 posted on 06/01/2012 10:54:54 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I don’t understand why people think republicans are neaderthals???? Especially with clear thinkers like you???? People that reject your brand of “Christian Morals” are not all liberals. I bet your one of those “individual rights are a code word for liberals” type “conservatives”, aren’t you??? It’s not the economy, it’s not the religon, it’s not your stance on the moral dillema de jour (french, must be a liberal), it’s not the moral absolutes that makes America unique. IT’S THE LIBERTY, SIR!!!!!

BTW All you Christians out there that know Jesus so well, let me ask you a questions?????

Is Mitt Romeny a Christian?????


43 posted on 06/01/2012 12:08:07 PM PDT by jazzo (MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: jazzo
BTW All you Christians out there that know Jesus so well, let me ask you a questions?????
Is Mitt Romeny a Christian?????
 
 

Why would you ask that? In post 11 you claim to be a "christian", but you say you are an American first. I - myself -  do not understand that at all. But of course I'm a Christian. Capital C Christian. And of course I put God first. Yes, even before America and our Constitution. That is after all what our founding fathers did. And so I do the same. You don't? Really? I can't even begin to imagine someone putting their faith and trust first and foremost in a manmade government instead of God. Even if that government was founded on Godly values
 
Back to your question. If you were indeed a Christian, you would know the answer to such a silly question such as; "Is Mitt Romeny (sp) a Christian?????"
 
And if you were a Christian, you would not repeatedly post "us vs. them" screeds at us Conservative Christians as you are doing.
 
So. Contnue to support America first as you say and with it your support of "gay marriage, abortion, capital punishment, prayer in school etc....."
 
But if you ever do change you mind, and you want to honestly know the answers to basic fundamental questions regarding Romney being a Christian, then stop being so hostile to us Christians and go find yourself a minister of the Gospel.


44 posted on 06/01/2012 12:42:41 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Just as I thought............

Your claim that i am not a Christian says all I need to know about your Ministry. Here is another question I am sure you will avoid.

If the founders felt like you do why is it they failed to put their “God” before their “Country”????

Religious Freedom, not tolerance is what “Won the Day”, and no hyperbole you offer can change that, The founders knew that if you give religious fanatics a little rope well you the rest..........

Finally, I am not anti-christian, in fact I am a Christian, apparently my brand is different than yours. And because I support the idea of America above all does not mean I support the government or it's policies. I do not like some of the things you enumerate, but it is an individuals right, because they are an American to live their lives as they see fit, within the law. It's quite simple pal it is NOT YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS THAT MAKE YOU AMERICAN. Americans that love gay marriage are just as American as you and I. You and I may not like it, but that's the way it is and I think there are better ways to change those peoples minds, then beating them over the head with the “Good Book”.

45 posted on 06/01/2012 1:31:59 PM PDT by jazzo (MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: jazzo

“Really? Christianity is the most true religion? Says you.”

You are free to pretend that my say-so is the only proof, if you like.

“So if I believe that the rights of the individual supercede those of the collective, I have to be a Christian or it lacks logical consistancy???”

1. Supersede, not supercede.
2. Consistency, not consistancy.
3. You only get one question mark.
4. Try very hard to grasp the subtleties. If you believe anything at all, you have to believe it in the context of a higher authority or it’s nothing but your opinion, which is no better than anyone else’s opinion.

“So I have to believe your way or I don’t have a logical base for my beliefs???? Priceless, “our way or the highway”.”

1. You owe the universe five question marks.
2. Try—really try—to understand this. What I said was that *conservatism* is not logically consistent outside the the framework of Christianity.

You can say with logical consistency that, since there is no God, all things are permitted, and you are therefore free to rape, murder, and steal to your heart’s content. That is wrong, but it is neither conservative nor logically inconsistent.

“That is pathetic, this is why your “Christians” are seen as a joke, and give a bad name to the rest of us christians.”

Christian with a lower-case “C?” I very much doubt that your understanding of Christian theology is adequate.


46 posted on 06/01/2012 1:47:53 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Little Ray

“My only issue is #4 - the unintended consequence of executing criminals is that they will be willing to kill more to cover up their crimes.”

If was only a few weeks after the Supremes shot down the death penalty that a couple of melanin-enriched armed robbers killed everyone in a Seven-Eleven.

Their reasoning? The penalty for killing all those people wasn’t any worse than for armed robbery, so it was “smart” to eliminate all the witnesses.

The penalty for murder should be much worse than for armed robbery. It should be death, swift and sure.


47 posted on 06/01/2012 2:00:48 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: jazzo

I wouldn’t attempt to tell another Christian what they must believe. That’s God’s job, and He makes it very clear in His Word what is right or wrong. If you understand the nature of God, you know that He is holy and righteous. He hates sin but loves us. This love for us and hatred of sin is what compelled Him to send His Son to be mocked, beaten, tortured, and then subjected to a horrific death on a Roman cross. The Bible is the standard for ALL Christians. Homosexuality, abortion , and drug use are sin, but He readily forgives all those who repent, acknowledge Him as Lord and Savior,trusting in Him, and not their own wisdom or good deeds. If your values are not aligned with His Word, you need to examine your self.


48 posted on 06/01/2012 2:03:09 PM PDT by Freestate316
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To: jazzo

Romans 9 & 10 says “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” This tell me that being a Christian is not a matter of membership in a denomination or church attendance; it is a matter of trusting Christ for salvation. My only indicator is a person’s fruit, the result of salvation. I don’t believe that Mormons necessarily espouse biblical doctrine, but I cannot judge where a person’s heart is with God. Mitt may have experienced the new birth. I don’t know for sure.


49 posted on 06/01/2012 2:23:49 PM PDT by Freestate316
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To: jazzo

Romans 9 & 10 says “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” This tell me that being a Christian is not a matter of membership in a denomination or church attendance; it is a matter of trusting Christ for salvation. My only indicator is a person’s fruit, the result of salvation. I don’t believe that Mormons necessarily espouse biblical doctrine, but I cannot judge where a person’s heart is with God. Mitt may have experienced the new birth. I don’t know for sure.


50 posted on 06/01/2012 2:31:21 PM PDT by Freestate316
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