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Philadelphia judge's verdict abrogates the state Castle Doctrine law(PA)
mcall.com ^ | 2 June, 2012 | Paul Carpenter

Posted on 06/03/2012 5:03:44 AM PDT by marktwain

In the Lowe case, news stories said, a thug named Loren Manning Jr., accompanied by two other thugs, jumped Lowe on a city street last October.

Lowe, 57, is a disabled and retired Marine, who has had two strokes and two heart surgeries and wears a pacemaker.

Manning and his sidekicks attacked Lowe and witnesses said Manning chased him and tried to clobber him with a metal pole before catching him and pinning him to the ground, where Lowe managed to retrieve a small pocket knife and used it to stick Manning, who, tragically, died.

This is Philadelphia, mind you, so Lowe was charged with various crimes — the Castle Doctrine law be damned — because he did not wait for the police to come and handle things. He then agreed to a non-jury trial before Lerner, and you can decide for yourself whether that was a good idea.

For one thing, the defense was not allowed to mention that Manning had 18 criminal convictions before he went after Lowe. Also, when Lowe was attacked, Manning was awaiting trial on charges he robbed a woman and knocked out her teeth.

(It would not surprise me if the woman is charged with injuring Manning's knuckles with her teeth, this being Philadelphia.)

Anyway, Assistant District Attorney Carolyn Naylor stressed that Lowe used his little knife to stab Manning more than once, including in the back, and the back wounds proved that Lowe was acting with malice. That was even though Lowe stayed at the scene and cooperated with police after Manning's lights went out.

Yes, Lerner agreed Wednesday, finding Lowe guilty of voluntary manslaughter and other offenses, which means Lowe will face up to 25 years in prison when he is sentenced by Lerner later on.

Let all this be a lesson

(Excerpt) Read more at mcall.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: banglist; carolynnaylor; castle; court; govtabuse; judicialtyranny; pa; pennsylvania; philadelphia; tyrannt
Knife wounds take a while to take effect. This is one of the reasons that knife attacks or defenses often result in multiple wounds.
1 posted on 06/03/2012 5:03:55 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

It would be REALLY just if a few thugs got together and kicked this judge and his family around or invaded his home.


2 posted on 06/03/2012 5:08:07 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: marktwain

This is Philadelphia, mind you, so Lowe was charged with various crimes — the Castle Doctrine law be damned — because he did not wait for the police to come and handle things. He then agreed to a non-jury trial before Lerner, and you can decide for yourself whether that was a good idea.

For one thing, the defense was not allowed to mention that Manning had 18 criminal convictions before he went after Lowe. Also, when Lowe was attacked, Manning was awaiting trial on charges he robbed a woman and knocked out her teeth.


The whole goal here is to make the law abiding citizens the total prey for the Lawless and the State.


3 posted on 06/03/2012 5:08:15 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: marktwain

Any sort of a trial like this one and you HAVE to insist on a jury trial unless there was some really compelling reason not to, anybody have any ideas, another racial thing or what the hell exactly???


4 posted on 06/03/2012 5:13:24 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: marktwain

.. You have the right to remain silent.
.. Anything you say or do can and will be held against you in a court of law.
.. You have the right to speak to an attorney.
.. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.
.. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you?
AND THE ONE THEY ALWAYS LEAVE OUT
.. Nothing you say may be used in your defense.


5 posted on 06/03/2012 5:15:01 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (End the racist, anti-capitalist Obama War On Freedom.)
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To: marktwain
Manning and his sidekicks attacked Lowe and witnesses said Manning chased him and tried to clobber him with a metal pole before catching him and pinning him to the ground, where Lowe managed to retrieve a small pocket knife and used it to stick Manning, who, tragically, died.

I must be missing something, but I'm really failing to see the tragedy in this...

6 posted on 06/03/2012 5:15:45 AM PDT by LouD (I stand with Scott Walker)
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To: LouD

Ditto, sounds like about as happy an ending as you could want.


7 posted on 06/03/2012 5:23:36 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: marktwain
Philadelphia judge's verdict abrogates the state Castle Doctrine law

Amish judge??

8 posted on 06/03/2012 5:29:05 AM PDT by GoldenPup (Comrade "O" has got to GO!!)
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To: marktwain
The judge is wrong...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Every person has the right to self defense!

9 posted on 06/03/2012 5:46:58 AM PDT by Lockbox
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To: marktwain

IF no one is allowed to defend themselves, judges should be included. No more metal detectors or searching the people upon entering the CH. Everyone is disarmed? Right? No need, for any more precautions yer horror.


10 posted on 06/03/2012 5:51:42 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: Lockbox

Self Defense is a God given right. Not to defend yourself if you have the ways is suicide.
This judge is an ass.
Just goes to show that this justice system is tilted towards the criminals.


11 posted on 06/03/2012 5:55:36 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: marktwain
Career Criminal THUG attacks old disabled person, dies in the process when disabled person defends himself, and it's the old disabled man's fault. In 'fact', it's 'Manslaughter'???... WTF?!? Guess the judge never heard of Self Defense, let alone the new law. Anyway, this is how it appears to me....
  1. If you're "pinned to the ground" like Mr Lowe was, the Back of the 'pinner' Thug whose beating the hell out of you, is likely the only place you reach with a knife.

  2. And since it's established that Me Lowe's knife was "small", repeated stabs don't prove 'malice'. It proves that it was a small friggen knife.

  3. It also proves the first stab wound -- from the "Small Knife" -- had no effect on the thug. Or for that matter the second stab wound either.

  4. And that left Mr Lowe no recourse from getting beaten to death, except to KEEP STABBING with his "small knife" until the threat from the THUG was over. As in D-E-A-D.

  5. So where's 'the crime'? All I see is 'maybe' a fine for a concealed knife? And a Ticket for Littering. (/s)
No doubt Mr Lowe made a huge error in having a bench trial, whomever the judge was. You need a jury with a forensic team of your own, with body models of the attack positions, drawings, etc.

But the judge not allowing the Thugs 'Bad Acts' in goes too far. No doubt he thought it would be 'Prejudicial'. But excuse me, that's the whole point of an affirmative defense which it is in Self-Defense Case -- and getting those Bad Acts in and before the jury (or before the court) would be sop .

Mr Lowe *should* win on appeal but big deal. That takes years. Years he doesn't have given his medical condition.

ps: It seems as if Mr Lowe's lawyer wasn't too friggen 'sharp' (no pun).

12 posted on 06/03/2012 7:02:04 AM PDT by Condor51 (Yo Hoffa, so you want to 'take out conservatives'. Well okay Jr - I'm your Huckleberry)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: marktwain

This is what Anarcho-tyranny looks like. This is why George Zimmerman is being lynched. It should be a first priority for every liberty loving person who respects the Founding Fathers to arm themselves and train their families for self defense.


14 posted on 06/03/2012 7:25:06 AM PDT by kreitzer
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To: LouD

I agree. It was not a tragedy, it was a consequence.


15 posted on 06/03/2012 9:06:35 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: SeaHawkFan
I agree. It was not a tragedy, it was a consequence.

I agree too, but happen to believe is it was a blessing for the rest of society.

16 posted on 06/03/2012 10:20:15 AM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: marktwain

Was Manning wearing a “hoodie?”


17 posted on 06/03/2012 11:46:20 AM PDT by oldfart (Obama nation = abomination. Think about it!)
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To: marktwain

Complete and utter travesty — to say nothing of the egregious miscarriage of justice.

I do hope that some top attornies will run his appeal pro buono, if that is still a legal option open to him.


On another note: This diabled vet should get a commendation for somehow — under extreme duress — reaching his pocket knife, OPENING it (how the hell he did that I will never know); and USING it with deadly effect.

When is the last time you EVER heard of someone being STABBED to death (not bled to death) with a POCKET KNIFE. The guy was a warrior and a hero, and — in Philly, at least, apparently — no good deed goes unpunished.


18 posted on 06/03/2012 12:09:30 PM PDT by man_in_tx (Blowback: Faithfully farting towards Mecca five times daily!)
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To: GladesGuru

“Trusting a Democrapic Party Judge whose last name is Lerner is the core mistake. Anyone know if Lerner is a Jew? As one, I hope he isn’t. Why? Because I fear what America may do if it realizes how may Jews are de facto commies and do not support the Constitution and in particular do not support the Second Amendment.

Color me worried.

Benjamin Lerner is Jewish! And as you say, there are too many Jews who are JINOs, are Commies, and don’t support Israel.


19 posted on 06/03/2012 12:19:48 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: marktwain

Can the PA Governor pardon Lowe? If so I will start a FB page to demand it.


20 posted on 06/03/2012 1:10:19 PM PDT by montag813
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To: rawcatslyentist
IF no one is allowed to defend themselves, judges should be included. No more metal detectors or searching the people upon entering the CH. Everyone is disarmed? Right?

Agreed. No more police protection for "Judge" Lerner. Fair is fair. Let him call the police and wait while black thugs like Manning rape and murder him and his wife.

21 posted on 06/03/2012 1:13:31 PM PDT by montag813
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To: marktwain
Justice Benjamin Lerner is an SOB of the lowest order. He convicts a disabled vet for defending his life, but in March he let off the hook two people who threatened witnesses with death in a double-homicide trial. (Details: Witnesses Dissatisfied With Sentences For Women Who Threatened Them". This douchebag has no place on the bench.
22 posted on 06/03/2012 1:18:20 PM PDT by montag813
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To: marktwain
...Lowe managed to retrieve a small pocket knife and used it to stick Manning, who, tragically, died.

The tragedy is that Lowe was arrested, tried, and convicted. Lowe did the world a favor when he killed Manning.

23 posted on 06/03/2012 1:29:17 PM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: marktwain

Judge’s full name for when we vote?


24 posted on 06/03/2012 3:56:17 PM PDT by maxwellsmart_agent
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To: marktwain

The real lesson here is DON’T live in Philadelphia.


25 posted on 06/03/2012 5:03:22 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: vette6387

Drop the anti-semitic crap, vette6387. You sound like a Nazi or just a plain nut.

The judge sounds like a POS. So be it. The citizens should try to recall him if that is a legal option.

I lived in Phila for 4 years and back then, we had really good judges including Juanita Kidd Stout and a young DA named Arlen Spector who was tough on violent crime.

Today we get liberal shits for judges because people like you don’t know who to go about getting rid of them (without exhibiting anti-semitism or any other hate-guided “ism”).

The only solution besides a good APPEAL’S team is a change in the political landscape. It is acomin’.


26 posted on 06/03/2012 10:07:23 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: marktwain

If the “justice” system was on fire, I wouldn’t cross.the street to urinate on it.


27 posted on 06/04/2012 4:12:39 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: marktwain

If the “justice” system was on fire, I wouldn’t cross.the street to urinate on it.


28 posted on 06/04/2012 4:12:58 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: marktwain

If the “justice” system was on fire, I wouldn’t cross.the street to urinate on it.


29 posted on 06/04/2012 4:30:47 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: marktwain

If the “justice” system was on fire, I wouldn’t cross.the street to urinate on it.


30 posted on 06/04/2012 4:31:04 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: marktwain

Can this not be appealed?


31 posted on 06/04/2012 6:02:36 PM PDT by stevio (God, guns, guts.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

The “adversarrial(TM)” system of justice has outlived any purpose it might have ever served and is in bad need of being gotten rid of, along with the job of DA; nobody should ever have any sort of a money/career incentive to simply put as many people as possible into prison. We need to adopt something more like the “inquisitorial” system used in France in which the common motive of government workers involved in justice is to determine facts.


32 posted on 06/06/2012 5:35:43 AM PDT by varmintman
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