Skip to comments.George Zimmerman Returns to Sanford, FL [In Police Custody]
Posted on 06/03/2012 12:13:43 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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iow...you have no proof either....got it.
The ME has his weight at 158 -- more than the 140 pounds that the media had initially reported.
So the ME has him shorter but heavier, and Zimmerman in his police report taller but lighter [185 vs 250]. The advantage still goes to Trayvon by a long shot.
What would the scars indicate??? Old injuries??? from old fights???.
This trial is being so ginned up and I think more people than Zimmerman might feel at risk. And, it anything should happen to him, man-oh-man, I can just feel the lawsuits pressed by his family.
Especially when the info came out that kind of exonerated Zimmerman.
And, now when witnesses are doing 180 degrees, this case may be falling apart.
And, with case not being until 2013, I smell Holder and “his People” stink.
Throw out the case, move to Peru or somewhere he and his family can't be located and live off the money he makes owning, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.
“Sorry but all zimmerman’s injuries show is that he was losing the fight -— not who started it.
If you have a link to proof of martin starting the fight pleas post it.”
I can’t tell if you are being deliberately dense or just can not follow what I posted. Last chance - who started it became irrelivent, immaterial, and nor germane once Martin began the potentially lethal slamming of Zimmerman’s head against the concrete sidewalk. Note also, if you can, that when Martin prevented Zimmerman from escaping, he removed ANY legal “duty to retreat” on the part of Zimmerman.
No offense intended, but either you are deliberately ignoring clearly written sentences, are some HolderPerson troll, or I am unable to communicate with you. In any case, good luck in your attempts to comprehend what happened when the soi dissant “No_Limit_Nigga” began slamming Zimmerman’s head into the concrete.
That said, I think it's prudent to hang fire on condemning Zimmerman's wife. De la Rionda is making the "lie" accusation without adequate justification, and that might bite him in the ass. It won't be the first time he's made up an accusation, on half of the evidence.
I can think of a few "innocent" reasons Shelly Zimmerman answered the way she did; in addition to attempting to hide the money to keep the bail low.
Maybe. But I think Corey and de la Rionda are fully capable of making things up, without Crump's help. In this case, the state was able to research the passport status, where Crump would not have been able to, and likewise the state has access to the recorded phone conversations. I wonder why it took the state over a month to act on what it knew.
Can they do anything against his wife? I thought spouses couldn't be in a situation that they had to be involved in could proceedings.
No -- it shows Trayvon was doing the hitting and that is called "assault and battery" and that is a crime.
There is no evidence that Zimmerman threw a punch, but plenty of evidence that Trayvon did.
It does not prove in any way who started the fight.
Well, since the only punches of the night that we have evidence of were thrown by Trayvon, then Trayvon's first punch started it.
Only Trayvon threw punches. So only Trayvon could have started it by throwing his first punch.
Think about it. Really think about it. It might help you.
I have not addressed the evidence or the accusations, so your little agitpropery is wasted on me. Personally, the absence of physical traumam other than the gunshot wound on traytable, compared to the substantial physical trauma on Zimmerman’s body indicate Zimmerman was being assaulted with intent to do major bodily harm. As to why or how it began is not yet established, but if you try to inflict bodiy harm on me like George Zimmerman received, I’ll either kill you with my bare hands or shoot your ass. Now, want to give this another try, agitprop? Slime back to your leftist hole in the wall.
I have not addressed the evidence or the accusations, so your little agitpropery is wasted on me. Personally, the absence of physical trauma other than the gunshot wound on traytable, compared to the substantial physical trauma on Zimmerman’s body indicate Zimmerman was being assaulted with intent to do major bodily harm. As to why or how it began is not yet established, but if you try to inflict bodiy harm on me like George Zimmerman received, I’ll either kill you with my bare hands or shoot your ass. Now, want to give this another try, agitprop? Slime back to your leftist hole in the wall.
I know that we have lowered the standards around here since everyone has been decided to vote for the liberal that is Republican in name only, but come on....when you have 200K and say you have no money for bond. That is a lie at least in the old days.
O’Mara may be wearing body armor as well. I know I would.
Clearly they didn't fear that he was a flight risk or they would have or should have acted sooner. I'll bet the depositions that have been ongoing since May 14th have not been going well for the prosecution, and this was their temper tantrum.
I'm pretty sure that putting out a “Dead or Alive” bounty poster is pretty much against the law.
Heh. It is an odd case that way. The Sanford Police and the most reliable on-scene testimony all supports the accused. The testimony of the police contradicts the state's theory of the case. The state uses DeeDee and Sybrina's voice analysis, in combination with conjecture, to make its case.
I don't see any way the depositions could possibly go well for the state, and they are idiots if they thought otherwise.
OK, let's rephrase and say that it's an apparent fact that Martin attacked Zimmerman.
The assumption of the truth of that fact is the basis of the presumption of innocence which is at the heart of our legal system.
If Zimmerman goes to trial, a self-defense argument will be presented. It will be up to the jury to decide if there is sufficient evidence to contradict the defense's claims of self-defense. That will be the only "genuine proof" you will ever get. So, in reality, your snide request is really nothing more than a statement of the obvious: that a trial has not occurred yet.
The truth of Zimmerman's claim that Martin attacked him, I guess, at least as far as the court is concerned, will be decided by the jury in that trial.
To reiterate, the "genuine proof" you demand is a phantom which will cannot fully materialize until the actual trial occurs. So you can sit there and smugly make a demand which is currently impossible to satisfy. Congratulations.
Currently, however, it is clear that Zimmerman claims he was attacked by Martin. That testimony stands unrefuted. Furthermore, the additional evidence we have access to, such as injuries sustained during the struggle, also seem to support that conclusion.
Conversely, I have not seen anyone, including the prosecution, present any evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin. So while you can feel confident that no one can realistically meet your impossible standard of "genuine proof" regarding Martin initiating the attack, it really serves no useful purpose, other than to expose your obviously disruptive intent.
We have a biased media and an overreaching prosecution to deal with. If you choose adopt their point of view, that is your business, but don't pretend to be some unbiased seeker of "genuine proof", because that is obviously not what you are after.
Zimmerman and his wife had four recorded conversations about the money. During two of the conversations Mrs. Zimmerman was at their Credit Union and George spoke directly with bank officials.
I assume they were trying to transfer the Paypal money into multiple Credit Union accounts. And I assume they were successful since the Credit Union statements dated 4/19, the day before the bond hearing, showed they had access to over $135,000 in cash.
It can't and won't appear at trial either. There is no independent reliable, credible and trustworthy on-scene eyewitness, no video. The issue cannot be resolved to the standard of proof that wtc911 demands.
No matter, that's not how the law works, nor is it how people resolve uncertainty in serious issues. There is other evidence, plenty of it.
The medical examiner report has some very interesting tidbits:
1. Teeth are natural. We have all seen the picture with gold teeth. They don’t look like a grill to me, but should this be investigated.
2. Trayvon’s pockets & clothes contain one dime. That is all the money he had. Now we all saw him leave the 7-11 with two dollar bills. Where did that money go? Sort of adds to the credibility of the possibility that he bought two blunts, doesn’t it?
Great article about the PayPal account. Judge Lester should read it before the hearing tomorrow or whenever its scheduled.
Zimmerman could have stolen the money after he shot Trayvon in the chest.
The 90 year old war veteran husband was beaten and his jaw broken. He was shot in the face numerous times with a BB gun and sent to the hospital in critical condition.
The 85 year old partially blind wife was RAPED and then BEATEN TO DEATH.
Can you just imagine the pain, the humiliation, the horror that dear old lady experienced being gang raped by that pack of feral animals?
(the autopsy states she was raped. Dont think all of these animals didnt all participate)
And can you imagine the pain, the horror of that dear old husband having to witness this?
Mr. Strait died from his injuries last week.
Theres a lot more involved here than a home invasion and robbery.
WHERE ARE THE CHARGES OF A RACIAL HATE CRIME??
90 year old husbands jaw broken and shot in face with a BB gun numerous times?
85 wife year old semi blind wife RAPED and BEATEN to death??
Why does it take a foreign press to enlighten America as to this henious crime?
WHERE IS THE NATIONAL OUTRAGE?
Have they caught the rest of the gang of feral blacks who raped, tortured and murdered this elderly woman? Are they even looking? Not a word about it in the media.
Where do you disagree with the author’s points in here regarding the PayPal monies that it is an illegal inquiry into client attorney privilege???
Those donations came with restrictions and qualifications and I’m sure the people who gave that money had no intention of the court using their donations to raise his bond or increase his bail. If the donors were to ask for their money back from PayPal because it was used for other than they intended, they would still be able to get the money back whether in the Credit Union or not.
The burden of proof remains upon you. That is the way American jurisprudence works.
Given that you have been informed of this a couple of times and pointedly ignored the information, and your general unpleasant confrontation style, I’ll have to put you in the troll category at this point, at best.
The gold teeth are a halloween-type of item. Similar to blackened teeth. Temporary, and for effect only.
-- 2. Trayvon's pockets & clothes contain one dime. --
The police got the other forty dollars and change. When the police emptied Martin's pockets, they left a dime behind.
He didn’t lie. I am certain he will never even be charged with lying to the court, which would be perjury.
1. Teeth are natural. We have all seen the picture with gold teeth. They dont look like a grill to me, but should this be investigated.
2. Trayvons pockets & clothes contain one dime. That is all the money he had. Now we all saw him leave the 7-11 with two dollar bills. Where did that money go? Sort of adds to the credibility of the possibility that he bought two blunts, doesnt it?
1. Yes, we all have seen the picture with the gold teeth. But I think I'm the only one who questions if that's the same Trayvon. There's a scar under the right eye of the gold-tooth Trayvon and the hairlines seem different to me also ... one is rounded, one is straight across.
2. $40.15 was collected by the police. I guess they missed the ten cents the M.E. found. page 7 of 18
If he did get any weed in Sanford it was probably via his cousin ... the one his father originally thought he was with that night. It surely wasn't from some guy standing on the corner in a raincoat. None was found on him. It's quite possible he smoked a joint on his way home from the 7-11, he did have a lighter. It's not a big deal.
496.413 Contributions solicited for or accepted on behalf of a named individual.
(1) Contributions solicited for, or accepted by or on behalf of, a named individual must be deposited in a trust account opened by a trustee named in a properly established trust document or must be deposited in a depository established in accordance with s. 69.031. The circuit court has jurisdiction over the contributed funds placed in such depository accounts.
(2) Disbursements of contributions may be properly made from a trust account only upon written verification from the trustee that the disbursement is in furtherance of the purpose for which the funds were solicited, with documentation reflecting the identity of the proposed payee and the justification for the proposed payment. Disbursements of contributed funds from a depository account may be made only as allowed by the court. When a trust account is to be closed and a balance remains in that account in excess of the amount needed for the benefit of the named individual, such excess funds may be transferred to another trust account for the benefit of another named individual who is in the same or similar circumstances.
(3) Any person or organization that violates the provisions of subsection (1) or subsection (2) is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. History.ss. 12, 26, ch. 91-208; ss. 15, 19, ch. 94-287.
[[He’s still a chubby ... must be eating a lot of twinkies.]]
Nope- He’s illegally druinking ‘Big Gulp’ Softdrinks
I wonder how many people in Florida soliciting funds for all the myriad of named individuals know about this statute? They will now.
In the meantime let's start rounding up all the panhandlers across the state because I doubt any of them have trust accounts.
I note now that the NYT, without fanfare or admitted correction, is no longer referring to Zimmerman as 'White-Hispanic', but just 'Hispanic'.
Their latest attempt at race-baiting and mob incitement is unraveling.
I noticed that GZ's DL in your link listed him at 5-7 and 200 lbs. And Trayvon's DL listed him as 6 foot and 160 lbs.
The statement at issue is that martin attacked, assaulted or jumped zimmerman without provocation. More than a few here have declared this to be a known truth. Not a single one has provided actual proof....care to try?
The standard of proof I "demand" is called just that - proof.
You have just acknowledged that you don't have it.
I could take the exact set of knowns (zimmerman followed martin - martin ran) and say that the fact is that zimmerman confronted martin, showed or reached for his gun and martin started fighting for his life by knocking zimmerman down before he could pull the gun and continued to beat the armed stranger to save his own life.
That version is based on known facts --- therefore it must be true.
But there is additional evidence, including: Zimmerman's past conduct toward people he called the police on; Zimmerman's physical shape as evidenced by getting winded after a run of under half a minute; the relative physical condition of Martin compared with Zimmerman, in particular speed and endurance in running, reach advantage, etc.; Zimmerman having called the police and was expecting them; absence of any witness hearing "Don't shoot!", "Gun!", or similar; that if Martin did see a gun before he hit Zimmerman (as your hypothetical posits), he failed to focus his attention on the gun arm for the duration of the one minute or longer altercation.
-- The standard of proof I "demand" is called just that - proof. --
I understand. You require a reliable, credible, and independent witness, or video. A person who was on scene, who viewed the entire altercation from a vantage point that admits seeing and hearing the action, combined with an ability to clearly recall the sequence of events. But the police and court don't have that, so have to reach a conclusion on the evidence they do have. The police didn't have a problem doing that. The state, in order to mount its case, has introduced two witnesses that the SPD did not use - DeeDee and Sybrina. The state's theory of the case depends on the testimony of those two, which runs counter to the testimony of on-scene eyewitnesses.
-- You have just acknowledged that you don't have it. --
Nobody has it, or will have it. That condition of quality of evidence is no big deal, despite your attempt to make it so. There is plenty of evidence in this case. That the evidence does not meet your standard for finding Zimmerman to have justification for his use of deadly force is irrelevant, because the law provides its own standards of "proof." At a 776.032 immunity hearing, the standard is "more likely than not," and if the case goes to trial, the burden is on the state to disprove the use of self defense, beyond a reasonable doubt. Neither of those standards is "proof to a metaphysical certainty."
The only witness says so, and the available evidence more than tends to backs up his story. There is the logical result of what proof that is available.
Related to the above - have you ever been on a serious criminal jury? Did you display this level of intelligent analysis and social interaction in the jury room?
If yes to all, did any of your fellow jurors slap you?
Exactly so on that last. Hence my previous comments. BTDT.
Great point. These two were not eyewitnesses but earwitnesses who disagree with the eyewitnesses.
They had a good example of it it in late Senator KKK-Byrd!!!
Yep. DeeDee is necessary to introduce evidence that Zimmerman was in hot pursuit of Martin, essentially that Zimmerman was the one who chose to close the distance, and was able to do so. DeeDee is also the only source for the contention that Zimmerman initiated physical action. There are many problems with her as a witness, and it's obvious she is either speculating or lying as to who shoved who, if she heard anything at all at that moment.
Sybrina's testimony is used (and Tracy Martin will do the same, although he's gone both ways on the point) to establish that the persistent screams for help come from Martin. Her testimony is directly contradicted at least by eyewitness John, and may be contradicted by the difference in voice quality between Zimmerman and Martin. The way I see it, take Sybrina and Tracy on one side, and Zimmerman's friends and relatives on the other, and they balance each other out. So, eyewitness John, plus the circumstances of Zimmerman being on the bottom, Zimmerman saying he yelled for help and nobody came to his aid, a one minute+ fight, 14 screams for help ... pretty easy to conclude that Zimmerman is the one yelling, beyond a reasonable doubt.
The state's case is pathetic, and as far as I am concerned, was brought unethically.
I was foreperson in a jury where the accused claimed his car had been stolen, and it was not he who fled the scene of the accident. During deliberation, two jurors were reluctant to say he was guilty. So, I asked them a simple question, "Do you think he did it, or did you believe his testimony on the stand?" During the course of the trial, defendant had taken the stand in his own defense, and one or two of his friends testified, too. It was pretty easy to conclude that defendant was lying.
Anyway, the two reluctant jurors were of a mind that the state had not proved its case. So, back to my question to them, "Do you think he did it?" They said, oh yes, they thought he did it. Then I asked the follow-up, "Do you have any doubts about your conclusion?" They did not! They thought defendant was lying , they didn't have any trouble concluding he'd done it, they just didn't think the standard of proof had been met.
So, I told them that there wouldn't have been a trial, if the state had a movie. That our function, as a jury, was to reason through the evidence and reach a conclusion. That it was okay to doubt, but our doubt had to be based on a reason ... on evidence. That if any of us as a juror though defendant was guilty, and didn't have any reasonable doubt on that point, that it was our duty to just say so.
The jury was unanimous for conviction. And, there was no "proof" of the type that wtc911 seems to think is necessary in order to reach a conclusion.
After more and more information is coming out it looks like they are holding on to the last straw of NOT getting eggs on their faces???
BTW are there two Trayvon Martins -- one with the gold teeth and the real one without.
When any group blindly engages in the same unsupported speculation we call it a circle jerk.
If you want to talk about zimmerman's past conduct then let's include the time he bounced his girlfriend around and the time he tussled with a cop doing his job.
We can also talk about the things we do know from zimmerman's own mouth...he was pro-actively trying to close the gap between himself and martin (following)...martin was pro-actively trying to avoid confrontation (running).
The whole 'martin attacked zimmerman' scenario requires that in the space of less than two minutes martin completely reversed his action of avoidance to one of confrontation and that zimmerman did the same in reverse. There is nothing to suggest this let alone prove it.
In my book zimmerman is no hero, he's a dope who got in over his head and had to shoot his way out of the situation he initiated. I don't think he will be convicted or should be based on the evidence. His life is permanently effed either way but, the other guy is dead.
Martin may not have been anybody's idea of an angel but there's no indication that he was any worse than millions of American teenagers these days of all colors and economic background.
I live in one of the top ten wealthiest zip codes where I raised three daughters (now grown). I've seen more than a couple of 'good' families turn out kids a lot worse than what we know about martin. And, I personally know people who started off with far less of everything than martin had (except trouble). They took really scary detours before getting straight. One in particular is a First Sgt. with the 101st.
All that though is utterly meaningless vis a vis what happened that night. What does have meaning though, is the fact that there is absolutely no evidence that martin was doing anything that night except walking back to the place where he was staying...that zimmerman followed him by car and then on foot..and that martin took steps to avoid confrontation with the stranger who was following him --- he ran.
I forget that Twinkies is food. . junk food, I guess.
I’m not going to discuss the evidence with you right now. I find you to be an unreasonable crank. We come to opposite conclusions on the same evidence. Obviously, there is something different between how the two of us get from evidence to conclusion, but I really don’t care what you think; and I assume you don’t care what I think. IOW, neither one of us will be persuaded by the other.
That is exactly what happened according to DeeDee, Trayvon's girlfriend's own words given to the media about her cell call with Trayvon that night. I'm sure that the prosecution and the defense have a copy of this initial interview of hers before she started changing her story and dancing away from it.
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