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George Zimmerman Returns to Sanford, FL [In Police Custody]
George Zimmerman Legal Case ^ | 6/3/12

Posted on 06/03/2012 12:13:43 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper

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To: Cboldt
Name calling...classy.

btw, I have not come to any conclusion. I offered an alternative theory based on the same facts. I asked you to support your conclusion with facts and you have acknowledged that you can't.

151 posted on 06/04/2012 8:05:18 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Cboldt

Exactly.

I was only about 25 at the time on mine. While I wasn’t the elected foreman, I became the de facto one during deliberations.

We had at least one person on the jury (might have been two) that thought that the main defendant might really have been using that triple beam balance chemistry lab type scale (this was before electronic scales became common) for weighing lock parts, as the defense claimed. Did I mention the trial was for for a guy who was accused of buying and selling cocaine at kilogram levels, who was unemployed, living a very high on the hog upper middle class lifestyle, whose only previous occupation was locksmith?

Yeah. Weighing lock parts. Right. Huge credibility killer there. We got a good laugh out of that.


152 posted on 06/04/2012 8:07:12 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Uncle Chip

Be careful lending credence to the GF’s statement. If you want to accept it then you have to deal with all of it...which means that zimmerman did not return to his car but kept following martin.


153 posted on 06/04/2012 8:07:19 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Uncle Chip

It should be clear by now that this poster taunting anyone is not a serious seeker of truth but an agitprop who will post subtle lies to continue the game. If one went to the usual leftist sites, it is probably posting selections from responses to its tauntings. Don’t feed nasty taunting trolls. Traytable is dead because he tried to commit assault and battery on an armed citizen. The taunting is designed to change the perception of the reality.


154 posted on 06/04/2012 8:11:02 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: wtc911
-- Name calling...classy. --

Not name calling, I was honestly describing how I view you, as an unreasonable crank. We've had sufficient exchanges for me to base my opinion, and I can read your posts to others, as well as the quality of reasoning you demonstrate in general.

-- I asked you to support your conclusion with facts and you have acknowledged that you can't. --

That's because you pick and choose which "facts" you will admit into argument. You discard or ignore substantial amounts of evidence.

I've supported my conclusions with evidence, you've simply whisked the evidence away in order to leave the parts that suit whatever scenario you are peddling.

155 posted on 06/04/2012 8:14:48 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: wtc911
Sorry but all zimmerman's injuries show is that he was losing the fight --- not who started it.

Only two people were at the fight when it started, and one of them is dead. The story given by the other lines up with the physical evidence, and as a result, is believed by sane people.

Bottom line however, is that it doesn't make a difference. It's almost like you are arguing whether Treyvon was wearing his Sponge Bob or Power Ranger boxers. Irrelevent to the matter at hand. Even if Zimmerman threw the first punch, it doen't not give Treyvon the right to kill him. Once Zimmerman was on his back screaming for help while Treyvon was bashing his head against the concrete, Martin become the attacker and Zimmerman, fearful for his life, has a right to defend himself.

You are correct in that there is no evidence as to who initiated physical contact. It doesn't matter. You're entire argument is based on this one tidbit but your anal-retentavity does not permit you to understand that it's irrelevant.

If someone pushes me I can't beat them to death with a crowbar. If they punch me, I can't shoot them. If they knock me to the ground and keep coming at me the situation changes. When they are on top of me bashing my head against the concrete, or standing over me kicking my head, they have escalated beyond reasonable force and have to bear the consequences, like being shot dead.

156 posted on 06/04/2012 8:53:07 AM PDT by BlueMondaySkipper (Involuntarily subsidizing the parasite class since 1981)
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To: Joe Brower
I note now that the NYT, without fanfare or admitted correction, is no longer referring to Zimmerman as 'White-Hispanic', but just 'Hispanic'.

I doubt the New York Times is capable of shame - they're probably responding to a desire NOT to be seen as a laughing stock...

157 posted on 06/04/2012 8:57:56 AM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: BlueMondaySkipper
-- ... there is no evidence as to who initiated physical contact. --

There is no eyewitness other than Zimmerman, but there is evidence on the point. One or the other in fact threw the first punch, or made the first move that is credibly taken by a reasonable person as an attempt to make unwelcome contact.

I agree with your legal analysis, but the case also involves Zimmerman's credibility, because nobody saw the details in the 5 seconds leading up to and including the gunshot. So, we are stuck probing Zimmerman's credibility in light of his account of events. Zimmerman says (according to his brother and father) that he was coldcocked without provocation*, and at physical disadvantage from that point until more than a minute later when he discharged his gun.

If you find Zimmerman to be a liar about being coldcocked without provocation, it'll diminish your willingness to believe him when he claims he had no choice but to shoot, for whatever specific reason (choked out, Martin saw the gun and moved to take it, etc.), a minute after being put at physical disadvantage and seconds after having the presence of mind to scoot his body so his head wouldn't hit pavement again.

The only person who will tell the details of the end of the fight is Zimmerman, and you'll either believe him, or not. The forensic evidence does not contradict his account, it supports it. But the forensic evidence does not foreclose all possible scenarios.

* Provocation as a legal term means at least an assault (talking and/or moving in such a way that a reasonable person would think the use of physical force was imminent), or a battery. Following, trash talking, asking questions, begging for money, and otherwise being a nuisance are not "provocation" in the legal sense.

158 posted on 06/04/2012 9:10:05 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: MaxMax

Zimmerman was fine until Crump and associates started theri publicity campaign. This was an outrageous media manipulation incident.


159 posted on 06/04/2012 9:23:19 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: meatloaf

Yep — and their star witness DeeDee may just be a ghost. She was never named in the indictment and the only thing we know about her is what Crump has told us, and much of that has been a lie:

“Perhaps one of the reasons, maybe the primary reason, the special prosecutor Angela Corey didn’t go to the Grand Jury was because she would have either had to introduce DeeDee’s testimony, or avoid it completely. The probable cause affidavit does not outline anything that Benjamin Crump sold to the media during his March 20 press conference. Nothing.

“In addition, the lead prosecution investigator Dale Gilbreath testified under oath during the bond hearing they had found no evidence to dispute George Zimmerman’s account of how the confrontation with Trayvon Martin started.”

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/

DeeDee may just be the biggest No-Show in legal history — and this prosecution team had the audacity to try to build its legal case on this mythical creation.


160 posted on 06/04/2012 1:42:07 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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