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Ask Foghorn: Is .22lr The Best for Self Defense?
The Truth About Guns ^ | 4 June, 2012 | Nick Leghorn

Posted on 06/04/2012 3:38:53 PM PDT by marktwain

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To: mamelukesabre
The typical death caused by a .22LR is via sepsis 3 days later.

Ding ding ding! we have a winner.

41 posted on 06/04/2012 4:31:28 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: marktwain

Just a few observations on the grand old .22

A 300lb sow can be put down with a .22 short when placed in right section of the X you imagine on her head. (Grew up on a hog farm, know the routine.)

The mafia preferred (prefers?) the grand old .22. In their thinking, you weren’t worth the extra money for a “premium” round. The supreme insult, you got offed by a pi$$ant round. (Don’t know myself, but I’ve been told.)

According to what has been written, a lot of black and wet ops guys used the .22 for assassination work. The books The KGB and The CIA both mention it. The movie, Gideon’s Sword (based on a true story) made a point of referring to the Israeli preference for the round in their line of work. Easily concealed, relatively quiet, universally available. (Again, I don’t know, but I been told...)

What I do know for a fact is that once upon a different lifetime I knew folks who owned those small Beretta “flip top” .22s. (Never owned one myself, true beans.)

Those little suckers would spit 8 inches of flame, bark like a banshee, and scare the pi$$ out of everybody, even the guy shooting it. The street thugs with their big bad 9s would run and hide like rabbits. You didn’t need to hit a thing and you could always find the bad guys by following the pee trail.

Finally, I read an article saying that the number of people killed by the humble .22 is way high on the charts. (Now don’t some one of you go asking where I got that, I did NOT pull it out my butt, I remember reading something in Shotgun News [I think] about 15 years ago. They had a chart on the number of people known to have been killed by the different calibers in street crime.)

I like the .22. Versatile, light, easily controlled, [and that’s really, really important] deadly, and the best part, its usually under the anti gunner’s radar.


42 posted on 06/04/2012 4:31:56 PM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimze, my handle is a Hate Crime. Hope they don't like it.)
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To: SampleMan
"The 9mm Sig P6, loaded with 147gr hollow points is of course the very best weapon anyone could possibly carry."

Wrong! Why would anyone use heavy bullets in the 9mm Luger cartridge, making it behave more like a 38 Special? The optimum 9mm Luger loading is the SPEER +P version using 124 grain Gold Dot bullets. In addition, almost any 40 S&W loading is terminal performance superior to the 9mm Luger cartridges.Why do you thing that most law enforcement agencies (including the FBI) have upgraded from 9mm Luger to 40 S&W?

"OK, I just wanted to get that in before my .45ACP friends arrived." Anyone still using that obsolete cartridge designation is too out of date to bring anything meaningful to the conversation. Read the headstamp, stupid!

43 posted on 06/04/2012 4:32:25 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Jeff Chandler
I thought I was a good shot until I started using that snubbie.

And you'll drive yourself crazy trying to be a good shot with a snub nose. They are not and cannot be accurate with a barrel length of 3" or less. Belly (arm's length) shots only. You could have a measure of repeatability if you load your own down to the grain, but unless you're a maniac you probably have better things to do.
44 posted on 06/04/2012 4:32:30 PM PDT by domeika
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To: mamelukesabre

Aye, that’s the rub. The metric isn’t eventual death, it’s stopping the threat RIGHT NOW.

It doesn’t do me any good if the guy who battered my brains out with my empty gun dies three days later of septic shock.


45 posted on 06/04/2012 4:33:13 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1231 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: mamelukesabre
Me:They flail, hide behind things and often shoot back with large caliber rounds.

You: false. The most popular caliber carried by criminals is .380 auto. In really poor neighborhoods they prefer even smaller.

Keyword: OFTEN, Not "most" or "majority."

Also for many of us, the bad guys encountered aren't cookie-cutter statistical work-a-day criminals in poor neighborhoods you imagine.

Bad guys could be a jealous ex with a 12 gauge, a redneck with a nice collection or a real-world Hadji with an AK.

46 posted on 06/04/2012 4:34:40 PM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: AAABEST; marktwain; Travis McGee
Agree on the .22lr bit. No replacement for displacement. Although .22lr can drill very precise holes in the anatomy, sometimes better than larger rounds, especially at pistol engagement ranges. As a USN medic, I saw first hand examples of .22lr cleanly piercing a human skull, whereas, on another run, a similar hit with a .357 ran under the meat and exited out the back without a fracture. Sure surprised me.

That said, I've also seen folks who simply can't manage anything bigger than a .22lr -- step 'em up to a .38 special or 9mm and the blast and recoil have them all over the target. For those folks, a .22lr is a fine choice, particularly those 8-shot revolvers with some CCI Stingers or Velicitors.

And don't even get me started on the .22WMR -- that 30-round pistol that Kel-tec sells would be hell on wheels. That's a lot of kbang for one magazine. $:-)

47 posted on 06/04/2012 4:35:58 PM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Baynative

So we know there are at least two ladies with excellent taste in firearms and men out there. ;)


48 posted on 06/04/2012 4:36:48 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: marktwain
Ask these fella's what they think about a 22lr. Photobucket
49 posted on 06/04/2012 4:38:24 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: mamelukesabre
"These deaths do not count, imo. THerefore I think the analysis in this article is of no value."

Agree. And with tiny packages like the LCP and LC9 available there just isn't any need. Another problem with the .22 is that it is rimfire which simply will not cycle as reliably as centerfire. All things being equal bigger is better. That said I frequently carry my LCP in the summer time.

50 posted on 06/04/2012 4:39:04 PM PDT by ciaocotc
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To: mamelukesabre
THerefore I think the analysis in this article is of no value.

It's worse than no value. It's dangerous or perhaps even deadly to those who heed it.

51 posted on 06/04/2012 4:39:52 PM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: Kirkwood

My old buddy is my old Ruger New Model Single Six .22 magnum.

A good old single action and the safest revolver ever made.

I’ve kept it beside my bed for the better part of 50 years and love to go out and shoot it from time to time.

That long barrel and a .22 mag really does some damage.


52 posted on 06/04/2012 4:39:58 PM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: domeika
And you'll drive yourself crazy trying to be a good shot with a snub nose. Belly (arm's length) shots only.

I've gotten pretty good out to 15 feet. The trick is not to zero in on the bull's eye, just squeeze the trigger when it's in the sight. It's a hoot to fire. People who have never shot a snub nose are deceived by its small size and are always shocked the first time they fire it, "I had no idea it was that powerful!"

53 posted on 06/04/2012 4:40:29 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: domeika

I’m with you. Personally, all my weapons ended up on the bottom of the Allegheny river after a nasty boating accident.

Never could find any of them.

But WHEN I DID carry, I loved that little Colt Mustang in .380.

You go lugging around a big bad piece that keeps pulling your pants down, sooner or later the ladies in the coffee shop are thinking you’re flashing them.

I never looked to “win” a “gunfight”. Only stupid people do that. The FBI has done studies that prove that the mere presence of weapon in the hand of a so called “victim” ended the confrontation immediately.


54 posted on 06/04/2012 4:43:35 PM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimze, my handle is a Hate Crime. Hope they don't like it.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

What you’re describing is called “point shooting”.

I would really like to learn the technique some day.

Like everything, it probably only requires a lot of practice.


55 posted on 06/04/2012 4:45:14 PM PDT by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

“I had no idea it was that powerful!”

Just becuse it has a lot of recoil doesn’t mean power. Most of the recoil from a handgun is due to the gas escaping rather than recoil from the bullet. This is even more pronounced with a snub nose.


56 posted on 06/04/2012 4:50:04 PM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: mamelukesabre

I carry a S&W Bodyguard. 380 with built in laser. The darned ammo will break the bank though.. its plentiful but costs a fortune..


57 posted on 06/04/2012 4:51:28 PM PDT by goseminoles
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To: 2111USMC
What you’re describing is called “point shooting”.

I didn't mean to imply that.

What I do with any other firearm is focus on the front sight with the target behind it, release my breath about a third, and squeeze the trigger. I look hard at the sight and the target. That doesn't work with the snubbie; I end up pushing up and left.

With the snub nose I still look at the sight with the target behind it, but without the intensity. I have to almost not care if it fires in order to hit it. It's hard to explain. Zen, maybe?

Maybe it makes a difference with the trigger pull. Smaller handguns have HEAVY triggers and I can't start being concerned about where it breaks.

I'm sure a professional, which I am not, could figure out what I'm trying to express.

58 posted on 06/04/2012 4:52:42 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: Jeff Chandler

You want a powerful snubby, get one like I got...

S&W K frame six shot 44mag with a 3” bbl and custom dinky little roundbutt grips. scandium frame. It kicks like you would not believe. You can’t shoot it 6 times fast without gloves on and even then it is brutal.

Its called a “night guard” something or other. I forget the model number. If I was home I’d get it out and tell ya the number.


59 posted on 06/04/2012 4:53:13 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Dusty Road

Yo Dude!!

Thanks for posting that!

I was thinking of that all along.

A .22 damn near offed Ronaldus Maximus.

Forget history, it bites your a$$ every time.


60 posted on 06/04/2012 4:56:16 PM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimze, my handle is a Hate Crime. Hope they don't like it.)
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