NRA-Backed Law Spells Out When Indianans May Open Fire on Police

sfgate.com ^ | 5 June, 2012 | Mark Niquette

[marktwain]

It the attack is violent and unjustified, then of course you should be able to defend against it.

The ability to defend yourself against unjustified government attack is at the very core of American philosophy.

[puppypusher]

Break into my home in the dead of the night and there will be No question that I will open fire.

Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six any day.

[Old Sarge]

Sherman, set the Wayback Machine for 2005, New Orleans, after Katrina.

Cops looting, confiscating property, including guns, intent on disarming the population.

[tbpiper]

Ups the ante on ‘Swatting’.

[ex91B10]

"Every time police Sergeant Joseph Hubbard stops a speeder or serves a search warrant, he says he worries suspects assume they can open fire -- without breaking the law. "

Good. I want you worried; maybe you'll follow the law.

You are a servant of the public, not the state and should be afraid of us.

[Travis McGee]

[vette6387]

Good law, long time in coming. Any cop who is worried should a) examine how he goes about his job of “protecting and serving,” or b) find another line of work. Seldom a day goes by here on FR that you don’t read about some sort of abuse of authority by police ( can you say Aurora, CO?). It’s long past time when cops should be able to get away with murder unchallenged. For that matter, they should all start obeying the same laws they are sworn to enforce against the rest of us. Our useless former Chief of Police told me that he routinely used waving his gun at other motorists whom he felt were driving too close behind him. Here in California, for the rest of us that’s a felony!

[Cboldt]

Hubbard is a drama queen, spreading falsehood. The law allows force vs. force, resistance. It does not allow deadly force, unless the person is reasonably in fear of death or serious injury, and a traffic stop does not produce a reasonable fear of serious injury.

[ex91B10]

"If I pull over a car and I walk up to it and the guy shoots me, he's going to say, 'Well, he was trying to illegally enter my property,'..."Somebody is going get away with killing a cop because of this law.""

Oh, poor little piggie; how does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot?

[raisincane]

We need to remind the writer of this article that we are not Indianans; we are Hoosiers.

[Cboldt]

-- Good law, long time in coming. --

This is the second time Indiana passed it. The first one was struck down by a petulant Indiana Supreme Court, without mentioning the statutory right to use force to resist unlawful entry.

[rarestia]

If a SWAT team breaks down your door in the middle of the night, I doubt you’d have time to open fire let alone even get to your gun before they invade your bedroom. And if you do manage to get your weapon, opening fire on a SWAT team will guarantee that you’ll be carried by six, regardless of whether or not SWAT had the right house.

This is the problem I have, overall. While homeowners may be justified in opening fire against a LEO abusing his/her power, backup is just a radio call away, and if you make it out of your house with both legs unbroken, the chances of making it out of the courtroom with your freedom are somewhere between slim and none.

[MrB]

If you want to serve a warrant,
walk up to the door with your sidearm holstered,
warrant in hand.

If you don’t want to do it this way, find another line of work.

[Joe Brower]

This appears to be a direct response to a long-standing pattern of abuses on the part of law enforcement. I guess it's too much to ask that LEOs follow the law.

A shame, really, since most do. But once again we see that "a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch".

[PeteB570]

Need a law to protect dogs.

Right now if an officer feels threatened they can shoot the dog.

Yeah, that 17 1/2 pound dog was a real threat.

“Law enforcement officers have nonlethal options for dealing with threatening pets”

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/06/04/1181457

[chrisser]

This appears to be a direct response to a long-standing pattern of abuses on the part of law enforcement. I guess it's too much to ask that LEOs follow the law.

A shame, really, since most do. But once again we see that "a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch".

That's my whole problem with the police.

I generally support law enforcement and am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt given the dregs of society some have to deal with on a regular basis.

But it's apparent that, in many places and for many reasons, the police, as a group, can't/won't police themselves.

Given the increasing amount of power they have, this is a very dangerous situation for them and for the rest of us. The onus is on these armed professionals with the power of the state behind them to fix the situation, or they may not like how it gets fixed for them.

[Still Thinking]

Every time police Sergeant Joseph Hubbard stops a speeder or serves a search warrant, he says he worries suspects assume they can open fire -- without breaking the law.

Welcome to our world, law-boy. Sucks, doesn't it? Don't forget to bring the dog.

[Dubh_Ghlase]

Recently there have been home invasions where the perp impersonates a mail carrier or UPS delivery person and forces entry when the door is answered. Sometimes (if no answer) they assume the house is empty and break in. We've also had LEO-type cars (Crown Vics, Grand Marquis) with blue lights pulling people over at night and robbing them. Sorry, but the cops can't (and aren't capable of) protecting us in all situations, and even become the aggressor at times (as shown).

No one should have to roll over and be abused in their own home. I would rather be carried by 6 rather than be assaulted in my own home, in my own bedroom. I will defend myself, my wife, and my property in any way possible, even bare-handed. My children will at least know I went down fighting doing what I felt was right, rather than being subjugated by someone on a power trip/adrenalin rush, or under the influence of drugs or worse.

Enough is enough. I have drawn the line...

[NonValueAdded]

"If I pull over a car and I walk up to it and the guy shoots me, he's going to say, 'Well, he was trying to illegally enter my property,'" said Hubbard, 40, who is president of Jeffersonville Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 100.

Oh, horse hockey, Hubbard. Your statement is absurd on its face.

[MrB]

I don’t know if this would be a full solution, but I think it’d be a start.

First, codify the absolute right of people to record, both audio and video, any official act of an officer of the law. There is absolutely no reason they should object to being recorded while performing their duties.

Second, require LEO’s to carry, and personally pay for, malpractice insurance, just like a doctor. Any cruddy doctor will eventually be unable to afford the insurance and will find another line of work.
Along with this, any individual malpractice protections that LEO’s currently have need to be pierced, so that the insuring entity is exposed to the actions of the officer.