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BARBER: Christians should vote for Romney
The Washington Times ^ | Matt Barber

Posted on 06/11/2012 7:24:16 AM PDT by jimluke01

It’s no secret that I have been and remain a vocal critic of Mitt Romney. To say that his conservative bona fides are suspect is an understatement. I have tremendous respect for a number of fellow evangelical Christians who say that they will not support his presidential candidacy. I expect I will anger some of them, and may even lose a few friends. Still, in November, I am voting for Mr. Romney and suggest that any Christian - Republican, Democrat or independent - should do the same.

Jesus admonished: “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” (Matthew 10:16). It is through this biblical prism that I shine my multicolored analysis.

President Obama is a wolf. Though he purports to be Christian, his policies are decidedly un-Christian. This man eagerly advances a culture of death. He is the most radically pro-abortion president in American history. He has dutifully signed off on - and implemented at each opportunity - every extremist demand of the radical pro-abortion and homosexual activist lobbies.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: atheism; barf; christian; conservative; idiot; obama; proabortion; romney
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1 posted on 06/11/2012 7:24:25 AM PDT by jimluke01
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To: jimluke01

No thanks!


2 posted on 06/11/2012 7:30:36 AM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: jimluke01

Yeah, no.


3 posted on 06/11/2012 7:31:22 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: jimluke01

Doesn’t anger me. People can do what they want. But this Christian isn’t taking her guidance from Matt Barber.


4 posted on 06/11/2012 7:32:37 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: martin_fierro

To what degree could this be considered ‘reverse psychology’?


5 posted on 06/11/2012 7:34:51 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: jimluke01

Christians should do what they believe is right.

BTW when do we get around to pushing Mitty to the right?


6 posted on 06/11/2012 7:38:25 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: jimluke01

Article left out the proper barf alert.

Pray for peace, prepare for war.


7 posted on 06/11/2012 7:39:20 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: jimluke01
Obama ....eagerly advances a culture of death.

True.

8 posted on 06/11/2012 7:39:20 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: jimluke01
Let us think about this ... Cliff, driver, 120 mph with zer0.
Cliff, driver, 100 mph with mittens and the backseat yelling turn right.
Have to think some more.
9 posted on 06/11/2012 7:43:35 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: CatherineofAragon

No one has to take orders from anyone, except their God. As for me, I am in the same mindset as the writer. Obama appointing two more justices to SCOTUS is an unconscienable concept to me, and I will not in any way be complicit in helping the BIG ZERO get reelected.

So, I will vote for Romney. I will pray for Romney. I will continue to express my conservative opinions whenever and whereever I see it is appropriate to do so. Working with the folks in the Tea Party will help to keep the focus on the US Constitution, the economy,our eroding culture.

Beyond that, we must put our trust in the Lord.


10 posted on 06/11/2012 7:44:28 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: BenLurkin
Obama ....eagerly advances a culture of death just like Mitt Romney, only faster.

I will pass on both of the socialist twins, and vote conservative. Sadly the most conservative candidate on the ballot is Virgil Goode.

God will not hold me accountable for who wins the next election. God will hold me accountable for what sort of person I voted for and how much effort I put into knowing who stood for what, by their actions more so than their words.

Romney isn't a possibility.

11 posted on 06/11/2012 7:44:42 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: jimluke01

In all due respect, Mr. Barber, Christians are well able to do their own thinking.

Pulling out one or two Bible verses in an attempt to give your opinions credibility can be dangerous; I can find any number of Bible verses or parables to support an opposing argument.

Still, most of us know full well the stakes in this coming election, and what another four years of 0 will do to us. I suspect people will vote accordingly.


12 posted on 06/11/2012 7:45:03 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (The GOPe has played us like a violin for the last time; high time to build the Constitution Party.)
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To: cripplecreek
.


"Pushing Myth Romney to the Right ... "

"Obama healing U.S. Race Relations ..."

Clinton ... I did NOT have sexual relations with that Woman ..."



All myths pushed by the GOP E-RINO Gay-Boy Yacht-Club set ...



.
13 posted on 06/11/2012 7:46:45 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: jimluke01
Only fools and the totally uninformed would not go for Romney. Or would they rather keep King Obama. We must have a bunch of liberals hard left on FR. I was not a Romney fan but I have no intelligent choice.
14 posted on 06/11/2012 7:47:21 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: jimluke01

Choosing between the wolf and the serpent is not a good choice.


15 posted on 06/11/2012 7:49:10 AM PDT by Ingtar ("As the light begins to fade in the city on the hill")
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To: Patton@Bastogne

You have to vote for him to see what’s in him.


16 posted on 06/11/2012 7:49:48 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: CatherineofAragon

I agree. Christians fall off the wagon all the time and repent for their sins..

However, I see this one coming from a mile away. Not sure I could explain “ya, he was a baby killer and supported gay marriage and so did the other guy. So I voted for him” well enough to get through the gates of heaven.

No thanks Mitt.


17 posted on 06/11/2012 7:51:02 AM PDT by cableguymn (If your policies are pushing the economy in to headwinds.. TURN YOUR POLICY AROUND!)
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To: Ingtar
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
18 posted on 06/11/2012 7:51:49 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Gumdrop

After seeing the Romney court picks and how he made things even worse in Mass with his choices for the board that picks judges, I will pass on him as a savior for the SC.


19 posted on 06/11/2012 7:52:31 AM PDT by Ingtar ("As the light begins to fade in the city on the hill")
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To: Gumdrop
Beyond that, we must put our trust in the Lord.

The Lord put his trust in you!!!!!!! Prayer or just praying does not just fulfill the wish that the Lord put in us because faith without works will never accomplish anything. Good for you realizing that Romney is our only chance to rid America of the devil.

20 posted on 06/11/2012 7:52:31 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: jimluke01

The guy sounds like a closet Romney fan to me. It’s pitiful that he feels the need to apologize for his beliefs, but that seems to be increasingly common for Romney supporters.

Isn’t that why he’ll lose?


21 posted on 06/11/2012 7:52:31 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: jimluke01

Sorry. Still no sale.


22 posted on 06/11/2012 7:53:25 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: no-to-illegals
Let us think about this ... Cliff, driver, 120 mph with zer0. Cliff, driver, 100 mph with mittens and the backseat yelling turn right. Have to think some more.
No.. Mitt would be yelling TURN LEFT!!! I want someone who is going to jump over the seat, shut the key off and slam it in park while trying to get their foot on the brake or pulling the hand brake and pulling the wheel to safety. Sadly, I get to chose from Dumb and Dumber. Cliff ahead...
23 posted on 06/11/2012 7:55:21 AM PDT by cableguymn (If your policies are pushing the economy in to headwinds.. TURN YOUR POLICY AROUND!)
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To: jimluke01

I consider it a sin to support any candidate that is pro-choice. As such, I will not be supporting either Obama or Romney.


24 posted on 06/11/2012 7:56:07 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Logical me
Romney is our only chance to rid America of the devil.

Help us Obi Mitt Kenobi, you're our only chance.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
25 posted on 06/11/2012 7:56:09 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: jimluke01

Well, Matt...

It’s not your call as to who gets the vote of Christians. Pound sand.


26 posted on 06/11/2012 7:56:18 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

The election will come down to whether the group who would not vote for McCain for not being conservative is larger or smaller than the group who will not vote for Romney for neither being conservative, nor pro-life. The disillusioned over Obama will figure in some as well. Some of these Liberals may see hope in Romney.


27 posted on 06/11/2012 7:57:02 AM PDT by Ingtar ("As the light begins to fade in the city on the hill")
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To: jimluke01

Not this Christian, I don’t vote for pro abortion pro homosexual anyone.


28 posted on 06/11/2012 7:59:45 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Ingtar

I choked back my bile and wasted my vote on McCain. I’m not doing that again.


29 posted on 06/11/2012 8:02:07 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Logical me
Only fools and the totally uninformed would not go for Romney. Or would they rather keep King Obama.

Only whining, sniveling cowards obsessed with their hedonistic creature comforts would be too stupid to at least recognize and list more choices than those two.

Pray for peace, prepare for war.

30 posted on 06/11/2012 8:02:27 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: cripplecreek

I agree wholeheartedly.


31 posted on 06/11/2012 8:04:34 AM PDT by Ingtar ("As the light begins to fade in the city on the hill")
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To: Ingtar

I think that’s a pretty good analysis. I voted for McCain four years ago because he picked Palin. This time it doesn’t matter who the running mate is because the nominee is a bridge too far.


32 posted on 06/11/2012 8:05:05 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: jimluke01

Who is Matt Barber and what is his spiritual maturity that he should advise what Christians should do?

As for my vote, I have not committed to anyone yet. I’m looking for a candidate who has similar values to mine and has the courage to withstand the slings and arrows of their adversity. The two front runners do not fit the first criteria.


33 posted on 06/11/2012 8:11:38 AM PDT by Jemian
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To: cripplecreek
.

You have to vote for him to see what’s in him.You have to vote for him to see what’s in him.


Isn't that what Nancy Pelosi said about Obama-Care ?


(Paraphrased) ...

"We know it's 2,500 pages long, and it's really complicated ... but we need to PASS IT so that we can REALLY learn what it says ..."




I know this is going to Nauseate some folks ... especially my Free Republic colleagues ...

But ... I am NOT going to vote for "Myth Romney" ... the "Celestial God-Child from Planet Kolob" ...

Period.

I'm a rock-ribbed TEA Party Conservative ...

who is SICK-and-TIRED of the GOP Gay-Boy E-RINO Blue-Blood Yacht-Club ...

pushing "complete" losers like Bush-41, Bob Dole, Juan McCain ... and Myth Romney ...

on "We the People" ...

every FOUR years ...




The winner of the GOP South Carolina Primary was gone on to WIN the GOP Presidential Nomination ...

for the LAST 30 YEARS ...

until ...

the GOP Gay-Boy E-RINO Blue-Blood Yacht-Club ...

allowed Willard to DESTROY and LIE about Newt Gingrich ...

simply because Newt Gingrich had the balls to stand-up to "Poppa" Bush-41 to WARN him against breaking his famous ...

"Read My Lips, No New Taxes" promise to the American people ...



And for that reason ... the GOP Gay-Boy E-RINO Blue-Blood Yacht-Club ...

can kiss-off to Planet Kolob ...



Period.



.
34 posted on 06/11/2012 8:21:38 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: jimluke01

Sorry, not interested in listening to someone twist the Bible in knots and selectively select passages to help support a LYING, left-wing, Progressive Liberal like Mitt Romney.

I’ve never read the “Lessor of two evils” idea presented in the Bible. Maybe someone else can help me with this?


35 posted on 06/11/2012 8:22:27 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: Ingtar
No thanks, I will vote against Obama based on following:
36 posted on 06/11/2012 8:24:39 AM PDT by entropy12 (Hate is the most insidious emotion, it will rot your gut from the inside.)
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To: jimluke01

All I have to say to my evangelical brethren and everyone else is look at Obama and look at Romney. Come November, those are the only two choices that are going to matter. Muslim or Mormon, half-wit, or intelligent, someone who isn’t American at the core, or someone who thinks America is the establishment, Communist, or establishment Republican. I don’t have any tingles running up and down my leg, and the choice isn’t a joyful one, but under no circumstances do I choose an anti-American, half-witted, Muslim Communist. You can spend all day long digging up every bit of dirt there is against Romney, and I have, but it pales in comparison to the garbage Obama is, and to the damage Obama is doing to this country.


37 posted on 06/11/2012 8:32:21 AM PDT by pallis
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To: jimluke01

I'll break the entire article down into two statements : "Obama is bad" and "Self-preservation will force Romney to be good".

Notice the complete lack of any statement indicating that Romney is good. In fact, he is identified as a flip-flopper making statements of questionable trust. And, notice, the implication that *we* must take the responsibility for *forcing* Romney to be good once in office, rather than just electing someone we trust to be good of their own virtue.

This line "Furthermore, any Christian who votes for Mr. Obama will get to take that up with God" I agree with completely. But seeing as how Romney and Obama overlap on basically all social conservative issues, I fail to see how it does not also apply to Christians voting for Mr. Romney.

Vote for Goode instead of evil


38 posted on 06/11/2012 8:42:38 AM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Colonel_Flagg
A faint possibility is appearing that the Democrats may dump Mr. Obama. A scenario like with LBJ may be possible. This would open things up for Ms. Clinton and her 900 FBI files on both Republicans and Democrats to get the nomination.
At this point, Ms. Clinton would just be another deck chair on the Titanic.

My choice will be a conservative.

Everyone should vote for my choice when I have one.
I .however, would never stoop to bringing religion into a partisan political race. Christians and people of other Judeo Christian faiths, should examine their beliefs and vote accordingly.
TWB

39 posted on 06/11/2012 8:42:38 AM PDT by TWhiteBear (Sarah Palin...The Flame of the North)
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To: jimluke01

Matt Barber thinks too highly of his opinions and should be much more careful when he tosses out Scripture (speaks for God) to prove his opinions.

Didn’t come close to changing my decision for November.

No.


40 posted on 06/11/2012 8:43:00 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: entropy12

Great info - thanks


41 posted on 06/11/2012 8:43:12 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: entropy12

That is your right. A Christian must decide whether Hope for Change economically overrides voting for one of the two proven wrong on moral issues. There is going to be some portion of the Christian base who will choose conscience over collaboration.


42 posted on 06/11/2012 8:44:07 AM PDT by Ingtar ("As the light begins to fade in the city on the hill")
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To: Gumdrop

Lots of conservatives will see it the way you do; that’s absolutely your choice. I would say to look at Romney’s judicial appointments in MA, which were largely liberal Democrats.

Agree with you about putting our trust in the Lord. I’ve had numerous conversations with Him about whether I should vote for an abortion-enabler and homosexual lover, and I trust He’s been telling me no, all along. Your mileage may vary.


43 posted on 06/11/2012 8:46:21 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: CatherineofAragon; martin_fierro; Lady Heron; MrEdd; Ingtar; cableguymn; cripplecreek; Tau Food; ...

Matt Barber is believing the common fallacy that he must vote for one of the evils.

No thanks to both of them.


44 posted on 06/11/2012 8:52:57 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Obama versus Romney? Cyanide versus arsenic.)
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To: entropy12

Just saying.....

“I will not create jobs or hold jobs that kill people, and that plant, that (coal) plant kills people”......

http://www.rightmichigan.com/story/2012/2/26/102121/113


45 posted on 06/11/2012 8:55:40 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: pallis; jimluke01
All I have to say to my evangelical brethren and everyone else is look at Obama and look at Romney. Come November, those are the only two choices that are going to matter.

Ditto. Yes, Romney is a Republican in name only, and a "Christian" in name only (IMHO as a fundamental Bible-believer). BUT I am going to say again:

It is about this inescapable fact, plain and simple:

1. Vote for The Marxist who is already entrenched

OR

2. Vote for the NON-Marxist that might win

This is a WAR, not an ELECTION!

Fight for the wrong flag and you die! Stars or Sickle?

Those are the only effective choices that God (who is in control) has left us. Anything else is bluster, like breaking wind in a tornado. Have you got a better idea?

(And now, get busy on transforming Congress and state governments through the choice of a vice president and the platform -- )

46 posted on 06/11/2012 9:05:18 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Choose you this day whom ye will serve ...)
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To: cripplecreek

“you have to vote for him to see what’s in him”

That is the funniest line I have heard in months!!! GREAT humor still
laughing!!!!!


47 posted on 06/11/2012 9:14:32 AM PDT by Kit cat (OBummer must go)
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To: imardmd1
Have you got a better idea?

Yes. Voting one's conscience and conviction.
48 posted on 06/11/2012 9:14:44 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: entropy12

Thanks. This is a keeper.


49 posted on 06/11/2012 9:15:21 AM PDT by caveat emptor (Zippity Do Dah)
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To: jimluke01
What a 180!!! Matt, you may not know me, but I know you and the folks at LC personally, and I think you’re a fine fellow, and we all appreciate what Liberty Counsel and its affiliates do.

But isn’t it outrageously hypocritical of you to now be trying to drag conscientious Christians kicking and screaming into the Romney slime pit, when just a few months ago, you yourself were preaching what great evils would come from such a vote:

Liberty Counsel Action Vice President Matt Barber said Romney’s appointments were constitutional “living document” poster children.

“Many of Romney’s appointments were not only liberal, not only Democrats, but were radical counter-constitutionalists. How on earth can we expect that, as president, he would be any different?” Barber asked rhetorically.

“Actions speak louder than words, and Mitt Romney’s actions as governor scream from the rooftops that he cannot be trusted with this most important of presidential responsibilities.”

Barber cites two specific examples of Romney’s radical appointments.

“As governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney not only failed in this regard, he appointed a number of very liberal, if not radical, ‘living, breathing’-minded judges to the bench,” Barber said.

“Two that come to mind were extreme homosexualists Marianne C. Hinkle and Stephen Abany,” he said. “They both had a long history of pro-gay activism, yet Romney didn’t hesitate to put them on the bench.”

“These are people who outrageously believe the postmodern notion that newfangled ‘gay rights’ trump our constitutionally guaranteed First Amendment rights,” he said.

Available at http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/romney-judicial-record-liberals-running-wild/

And your use of Scripture to support this betrayal of principle is laughable.

First, you posit this passage as justification for what amounts to a consequentialist ethical decision:

“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves." (Matthew 10:16).

You say Obama is a wolf, and you are right. But we should only guard against one wolf? And expose ourselves to other wolves of like propensities and equal dangers? Or we could say, that from a Christian perspective, Romney represents a greater threat than Obama. Obama wants to advance a failed economic theory called Marxism and thus destroy our constitution and our country. Very bad.

But Romney is under an oath to his Church to advance the soul-destroying falsehoods of Mormonism. Which is worse, Matt? A beat up country that can and will recover if we humbly seek God’s blessing, or the eternal loss of human souls, AND the destruction of the country and its constitution thrown in as a bonus?

In Scripture, whom did Christ and the Apostles designate as wolves. Politicians? Or was it those who try to bring false teaching into the church? What did Jesus say?

Mat 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

And who are these wolves? Are they evil pols doing terrible public policy? No, they are alien predators trying to blend in with the sheep, trying to make themselves look like “severely conservative” Christians.

But wait you say, look at their fruit? Surely Obama’s fruit is worse than Romney’s. Really? Matt, I was working as an intern for LC when Romney was governor. You have to know what was going on in MA with Christian health workers getting backed into a corner over abortion, by the Romney administration. They called us, but we couldn’t help them. To this day I still don’t know why, other than that we didn’t have the resources, or couldn’t see how to win, or both.

But Romney has fruit, and it ain’t good. You know the record. You’ve preached on how bad the record was. And now you want to throw that down the memory hole.

But let’s get back to wolves. What did Paul say about these wolves, Matt?

Acts 20:29-30 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Was Paul worried about pagan kings doing nasty things? Obey the king. Pray for the king. Maybe God will save him. No, Paul was worried about people who tried to look like Christians, gaining the confidence of Christians, and drawing to themselves disciples away from the truth of the Gospel, by perversion of the truth, by rejecting the truth of the very Scriptures Paul was then delivering to the church.

And which of our “only two choices” fits that description best? Tough call. Obama’s Black Liberation Theology is a perversion of the Gospel that glorifies man and not God, and Mormonism is a perversion of the Gospel that makes God into a man and man into a god. “Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.” Literally.

My dad always used to say, if you want to know what someone is going to do, look at what they’ve done. You say you want to trust the word of Captain Etch-a-Sketch, despite his proven tendency to run roughshod over the truth, both in terms of his own positions and the positions and reputations of his opponents. Is it really being "wise as a serpent" to ignore signals that he cannot be trusted, as you yourself earlier had preached to us? Or is it a fool's game to trust the wolf trying to hide in sheep's clothing?

You say, “Some might say I'm putting pragmatism over principle,” and I’d agree with you on that point. Look at your own reasoning. You posit three “realistic” (i.e., “pragmatic”) choices. Vote Romney, vote Obama, or don’t vote. That’s flawed to begin with. There are other, better choices, and you are in effect voting against them by directing us to vote for one of the greater evils.

But the true masterstroke of your "pragmatism" is your claim to omniscience. You say we won’t survive a second Obama term. Are you sure? Did God tell you this? Whatever happened to faith in the living God? Only God knows whether we would or should survive an attempted Marxist coup. We both know we don’t deserve it as a nation. We murder our unborn and teach our children all manner of perversity. We make all our choices based on craven fear over the latest manufactured crisis rather than a steady faith in the power of God. Why should God help us?

But we know that IF God is for us, no one can be against us. Yes, that has a primarily spiritual meaning. But God has the power to help us nationally as well. We are at his mercy. And you are encouraging us, as believers, to forsake that faith and trust instead in the arm of flesh, and not just any arm, but the arm of a man who’s religion is a variant of the same Gnosticism about which John warned in 2 John 1:10-11, that it is antichrist in nature, and that lending it any support, no matter how small, makes us partakers of it’s evil?

So pragmatically, since there is a God, and he does tell us just what to do under conditions such as these, isn’t the really practical decision to stay in a place where we may expect to receive his blessing, to do the right thing as Christians and trust him for the outcome?

In the end, there aren’t just three choices. There are as many choices as God says there are. Our backs are up against the Red Sea, to be sure, but God exists, and He cares for us, and He can make a way where there was none before.

Do the right thing, Matt.

50 posted on 06/11/2012 9:53:46 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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