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Florida Bishop Leads Opposition to Obamacare Mandate
Conservative HQ ^ | 6/11/12 | George Rasley

Posted on 06/11/2012 7:02:38 PM PDT by xzins

A few weeks ago, when it was announced that some 40 Catholic diocese and institutions had filed 12 lawsuits against the Obama administration and its mandate that the church subsidize or provide insurance for medical procedures, such as abortion, that are contrary to its teachings, we said the lawsuits were a good step. However, the lawsuits are no substitute for mobilizing opposition to the Obamacare mandate through the public moral authority of America’s religious leaders.

We urged church leaders to use their day-to-day ministries and Sunday morning sermons to identify, and publicly oppose the source of their persecution, not leave the job of making the case for the rightness of their cause to their attorneys.

Now comes word that Bishop Frank Dewane of the Diocese of Venice (Florida) did just that by sending a letter to Catholic parishes encouraging parishioners in his diocese to rally against the Obamacare mandate on Friday, June 8.

The result, according to the Collier County (Florida) Sheriff’s Office, was an estimated 2,000 people showed-up for a nearly two-hour rally, which took over the northeast corner of U.S. Highway 41 North and Pine Ridge Road in the small city of Naples, Florida.

If 2,000 people show up to fill an auditorium to hear President Barack Obama speak in favor of the health care mandate, it is front page news. Judging by the national media attention this and similar rallies around the country got last Friday, you would never know they happened.

The Naples rally and others like it around the country were not rallies in some nice air conditioned presidential campaign venue, but demonstrations of a personal commitment on the part of the participants to turn out for two hours in the 85 degree heat to show their opposition to the Obamacare mandate.

Would they have come without the encouragement of Bishop Dewane? Of course no one knows the answer to that question, but this is not the first time the Bishop has denounced the Obamacare mandate – in February he sent a similar Diocese-wide letter decrying the Obamacare requirement.

Yes, the lawsuits are a good and necessary step to overturning the Obamacare mandate and restoring religious freedom and freedom of conscience in our country. However, compared to the moral authority Bishop Dewane exercised when he wrote, “This (HHS) mandate is so offensive, and so coercive, that it resembles similar actions that totalitarian regimes have used in the past,” the lawsuits pale in influence.

The establishment media may ignore rallies, like the one in Naples, Florida, but we are confident no power on earth can stand against such moral authority if other religious leaders will only follow Bishop Dewane’s lead and have the courage to exercise it.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholic; mandate; obamacare; religion; romneycare

1 posted on 06/11/2012 7:02:41 PM PDT by xzins
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To: wagglebee; narses; Salvation; Dr. Brian Kopp; markomalley
However, compared to the moral authority Bishop Dewane exercised when he wrote, “This (HHS) mandate is so offensive, and so coercive, that it resembles similar actions that totalitarian regimes have used in the past,” the lawsuits pale in influence.
2 posted on 06/11/2012 7:05:04 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: NYer

ping


3 posted on 06/11/2012 7:06:56 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: xzins

Big Whoop! They support the rest of the bill and illegal immigrants as well.


4 posted on 06/11/2012 7:11:27 PM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: raybbr

I can overlook their take on illegals. They have biblical citations that would indicate leniency toward aliens were they to read them in that manner.

They don’t support “the rest of the bill”. They disapprove of the abortion provisions, of course, and also of anything that smacks of euthanasia (death panels).

I would imagine they’d not support any gay provisions of the bill contrary to their doctrine.

My guess is they know better than to approve of mandates.


5 posted on 06/11/2012 7:20:13 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
I can overlook their take on illegals. They have biblical citations that would indicate leniency toward aliens were they to read them in that manner.

I think it is a huge, ongoing mistake for conservatives to concede that any element of collectivism is Biblical.

It is not.

Collectivism in any form makes man a servant to man (in the form of the state) and this is against God's will as stated in the Bible.

No king but Jesus. That is what my Bible tells me.

6 posted on 06/11/2012 7:27:12 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: xzins
The Catechism, foremost, speaks to the responsibility of immigrants to follow the host country's laws, respect its culture and tradition, and contribute positively to its life, both materially and spiritually.

The host nation is to treat immigrants humanely, while enforcing its laws, not allowing things like torture, withholding of the necessities of life, breaking up families, and being more sensitive to the exigencies of refugees fleeing war, oppression, or natural disasters.

Those Catholic officials who endorse things like the Dream Act, or a general amnesty, are offering their personal political opinion.

7 posted on 06/11/2012 7:48:12 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: rogue yam
Where did collectivism come from in this discussion?

Refer to Pope Leo's Encyclical Quod Apostolici Muneris, Dec 1878.

8 posted on 06/11/2012 7:52:48 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: xzins
The bishops WANTED this bill - badly. They want single payer/govt. health care. To deny that is absurd.

Note excerpt from their own site dated May 21, 2010. (emphais mine)

Setting the Record Straight

As the Chairmen of the three committees most directly involved in the efforts of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on health care reform, we are writing to set the record straight on some important issues raised during and after final consideration of the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” this spring. 

From our first statement to Congress a year ago (http://usccb.org/sdwp/national/2009-05-usccb-health-care-statement.pdf) to Cardinal George’s March 23rd, 2010 statement about the enactment of a “profoundly flawed” final bill, the position of our Conference has been unified and consistent.  Reflecting decades of advocacy on behalf of universal access to health care, the bishops were clear in calling for health care reform as a moral imperative and urgent national priority.  We called for reform that would make health coverage affordable for the poor and needy, moving our society substantially toward the goal of universal coverage.  We were equally clear in stating that this must be done in accord with the dignity of each and every human person, showing full respect for the life, health and conscience of all. 

9 posted on 06/11/2012 7:53:02 PM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: xzins


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Updated: *167* Bishops (More Than 90% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
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href="http://www.sundayscripturestudy.com/this_week.html">An Affront Catholics Agree On [Liberal and Conservative Catholics Against Obama Mandate]

Army Silenced Chaplains Last Sunday
Catholic Military Archdiocese & Chaplains interfered with last Sunday by Pres. Obama’s Admin
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Mohler [Southern Baptist] Says Insurance Mandate Not Just 'Catholic' Issue
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Lincoln bishop: prepare for 'suffering' under HHS mandate
Bishop David Zubik confronts Obama
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Pope hits out at 'radical secularism'
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Bishop Olmsted's Letter to Catholics [Catholic Caucus]
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Phoenix bishop (Olmstead): defy feds on birth control
A letter from Archbishop Dennis M. Schnurr concerning HHS edict
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OBAMA’S CONTEMPT FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (mandates coverage of sterilization & contraception)
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10 posted on 06/11/2012 8:00:41 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: raybbr

Read the links if you want to set the record straight. ALL — yes, ALL the Catholic Bishops came out AGAINST the HHS mandate.

The facts are in those links. All FR links, BTW!


11 posted on 06/11/2012 8:03:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: raybbr
They wanted a bill, not this bill.

There are plenty of ways to reform the health care system in this country that aren't as inimical to freedom (not to mention economically stupid) as Commiecare.

And, no, "universal access to healthcare" is not the same thing as "single payer government health care". Read up on the concept of "subsidiarity" in Catholic social doctrine, please.

12 posted on 06/11/2012 8:40:44 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: xzins

“I can overlook their take on illegals. They have biblical citations that would indicate leniency toward aliens. . .”

Ah, not exactly. First, as much as people wish they would do so, priests and bishops do not interpret the Bible.

Two, the Catechism as well as the current pope’s encyclical on charity (Caritas in Veritate (English: Charity in Truth) both state, in common terms, that it’s really stupid for the government of any country to allow foreigners to come in and drain its resources especially if charity is the goal, since the end game of such an endeavor will be no more resources for charity.

What you are talking about is bishops going off the reservation- interpreting the Bible- which they are allowed to do, just not within or in the name of Catholicism- and that is what is getting them into this mess in the first place.


13 posted on 06/11/2012 9:05:30 PM PDT by stanne
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To: Trailerpark Badass
Where did collectivism come from in this discussion?

Collectivism comes into the discussion as soon as those discussing decide to speak the truth.

Public schools, public hospitals, food stamps, etc. are collectivist institutions. The government uses force to take money from those who work in the private sector and then spends this money providing these services to those of the government's choosing.

If the government decides to take money from hard-working, law-abiding Americans and then use that money to provide the necessities of life to those who merely managed to sneak across the border in violation of the law, then the taxpaying Americans have been forcibly put in service to those law-breaking foreigner by the ones who happen to control the levers of political power at the moment.

This is collectivism plain and simple, and it is ungodly.

14 posted on 06/11/2012 10:10:07 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

LOL, OK.


15 posted on 06/11/2012 11:57:42 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass; rogue yam

He’s right. The poor already had universal access to health care through a variety of government programs. Catholic schools, hospitals and charities would thrive on the money wasted in the public sector on the same things.

The Catholic Church has been utterly reticent to act with vigor against “Catholics” in the political arena who contradict Catholic Doctrine. It’s part of how we got to where we are today.


16 posted on 06/12/2012 12:28:23 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Salvation; Campion
I know they came out against the mandate. That's the only thing they didn't like about the bill. They supported everything else but the mandate. Also, note in the link I provided they want "immigrants" covered, too. The bishops are nitpicking the bill.

From the above link: (Parenthetical bold comments are mine)

Ultimately the House of Representatives approved a health care reform bill that the bishops welcomed for substantially meeting most of the principles and goods we were espousing. 

(They approved of the bill from the House. They WANTED it.)

We hoped to address final concerns as the legislation moved forward.  However, the Senate rejected the House legislation, including the key elements that we supported, and produced a bill that abandoned the very principles that we espoused: no expansion of abortion, protections for freedom of conscience and the rights of immigrants.  With these foundational principles rejected, it was then announced that no further substantive changes were possible.  From that moment on, the bishops were clear and consistent in saying that this “take it or leave it” offer was morally unacceptable and politically divisive.  Whatever might be the positive aspects of the Senate bill, we had no choice but to oppose the Senate version as a matter of principle.  As bishops we must faithfully proclaim the truth.  We must defend the rights of the unborn and the weakest and most vulnerable among us.  We must oppose the advance of elective abortion in our society, especially the use of government authority and funding to advance it, and we must speak out in favor of the rights of freedom of conscience for persons and institutions.  We urged Congress to vote against this version of the bill, with the hope that together we could find a way to address our legitimate concerns in a bill which would thus have broader appeal and greater support.  Unfortunately, the political will to do so did not emerge.

The final result is legislation that expands health care coverage, implements many needed reforms, and provides welcome support for pregnant and parenting women and adoptive families. 

(Again. They approved of the House bill - they supported it)

Unfortunately it also perpetuates grave injustices toward immigrant families

("grave injustices toward 'immigrants' meaning illegals)
and makes new and disturbing changes in federal policy on abortion and conscience rights.  We have documented the legislation’s serious flaws in several analyses available on the bishops’ web site, www.usccb.org/healthcare.


Say what you want. The bishops have made it clear they want govt run healthcare except for abortions.
17 posted on 06/12/2012 4:21:32 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Thank you for your thoughtful and substantive response.

You have truly distinguished yourself from the legions of arrogant but unknowing fools who post snide, useless garbage on the internet.

You may be proud of yourself for what you’ve accomplished here today.


18 posted on 06/12/2012 5:28:05 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam; OrthodoxPresbyterian

Being a student of the bible, I have studied the forbearance toward aliens passages in the bible, and especially in light of the fact that Christians are “strangers (aliens) and pilgrims in this land” who are seeking a better city. I would hope for that forebearance toward the Churches that the Bible recommends toward aliens in the Old Testament. Jesus, himself, is the offspring of those who were aliens and that whether one discusses the march toward the promised land under Moses or one deals with the life story of Ruth. In many lands today, Christians are severely persecuted and their only security is found in fleeing those regimes.

Therefore, it is instructive to contemplate the biblical passages on aliens in foreign lands. It is not an easy subject and the dividing line between forebearance and strict adherence to law is a matter that CAN be up in the air for some folks. For the bishops to come down in a more lenient place is not necessarily a political decision on their part. It might well be a theological concern on their part that is heartfelt and sincere. To the extent that sincerity drives their position, I’m willing to be lenient toward the bishops.

Sincerity, of course, doesn’t make them biblically right. As you or someone else has pointed out on this thread, there is a point at which continual, knowing violation of law ceases to be anything more than willful, harmful, intentional illegality.

I do believe in kindness toward illegal immigrants who are not violent or destructive, who are simply seeking a better life. As Hannity always points out, who can blame them for seeing that this is a better country.

So, whatever plan we decide on for dealing with aliens, I do hope that it is considerate in terms of treatment. As a former supporter of both Perry and Gingrich, I do believe there are ways of dealing with people that are not mean-spirited or insensitive.

Is allowing someone to live off our social services “collectivism”? At one level, social services themselves are collectivist, so there is the necessity to admit that this nation already has a collectivist streak. I think for ill, because I believe it destroys individual initiative and weakens the nation.

So, to the extent that illegals consume resources without putting anything in to help pay their way, then they are unjustly feeding off of our collectivist streak. But, I’d say the same about a welfare deadbeat, too.

I’ve long wondered if it isn’t a far better policy to limit the vote to those who pay property tax either as a direct property owner or as a portion of a rental payment.


19 posted on 06/12/2012 5:36:53 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: raybbr
Say what you want. The bishops have made it clear they want govt run healthcare except for abortions.

There are many who espouse collectivism in the name of Christianity (collectivism, as distinct from charity). The Catholic Church is full of such leftists, as are most other Christian denominations in the US.

This should be no surprise to those who understand what the Bible tells us about evil.

Evil appeals to man's conceit (that he can collectively plan a better society than would obtain organically from each person planning their own life), and perverts the Biblical injunction toward charity (conflating it with collectivism), and sets the undefinable and unbiblical goal of "social justice" above the most essential goal of man on this earth, which is liberty.

Once man is enchained by man in the service of "social justice" the reign of evil over him is unfettered and ever expanding.

20 posted on 06/12/2012 5:46:07 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: xzins
I do believe in kindness toward illegal immigrants who are not violent or destructive, who are simply seeking a better life. As Hannity always points out, who can blame them for seeing that this is a better country.

"Kindness" with your own resources is charity. "Kindness" with resources that have been taken by force from others is tyranny and corruption.

Is allowing someone to live off our social services “collectivism”? At one level, social services themselves are collectivist, so there is the necessity to admit that this nation already has a collectivist streak. I think for ill, because I believe it destroys individual initiative and weakens the nation.

There is collectivism woven all through our government at every level, and this is precisely what has us hurtling toward the cliff of fiscal collapse. I think that we will only be able to save ourselves from tyranny and impoverishment if we turn away from collectivism and seek to reduce or eliminate it everywhere. This is a project that necessarily will never end.

21 posted on 06/12/2012 5:57:34 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

You’re missing seven books.


22 posted on 06/12/2012 8:13:34 AM PDT by steve8714 (Who didn't already know Obama was our first gay President?)
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To: steve8714
You're missing a coherent, substantive argument.

But you've got a giant nasty attitude.

Which book did you find that in?

23 posted on 06/12/2012 9:59:01 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: aposiopetic; netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
HT to aposiopetic for the ping!

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


24 posted on 06/12/2012 10:41:19 AM PDT by NYer (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: rogue yam

LOL, OK!


25 posted on 06/12/2012 11:06:18 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: rogue yam

LOL, OK!


26 posted on 06/12/2012 11:06:56 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: rogue yam
"Kindness" with your own resources is charity. "Kindness" with resources that have been taken by force from others is tyranny and corruption.

I agree with the first sentence. The 2nd is not necessarily the case.

Using police or military resources is still using a nation's resources. There is no requirement that the police or military be brutal with illegals who are captured. There is every reason to be kind and considerate as they are repatriated to their own countries.

Just for the record, though, I'd buy into an even swap one-to-one for a hard-working illegal who wants to make it on his own versus an American citizen deadbeat who can but won't work and lives on the government dole.

:>)

27 posted on 06/12/2012 11:40:46 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: stanne; raybbr

see #19


28 posted on 06/12/2012 11:43:36 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
the mandates will be changed, the Bishops will congratulate themselves, Dolan will be pope, and the Shining Light on the Hill gets socialized medicince. Everybody wins.

except the rest of us.

29 posted on 06/12/2012 11:53:36 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (they have no god but caesar)
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To: xzins

We are not talking about courtesy and professionalism here.

We are talking about free stuff paid for by others.


30 posted on 06/12/2012 12:24:13 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: xzins

I’m thinking there might have been quite a few folks from Ave Maria University at that rally in Naples.


31 posted on 06/12/2012 4:14:01 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: xzins

Bless him, Lord! I ask in Jesus’ name!


32 posted on 06/12/2012 4:38:15 PM PDT by Melian ("Where will wants not, a way opens.")
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To: xzins

Bishops with spines! Hurrah!


33 posted on 06/12/2012 4:39:25 PM PDT by Melian ("Where will wants not, a way opens.")
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To: rogue yam

Four words, undeniably true, that’s a nasty attitude? You’re a very sensitive person.


34 posted on 06/12/2012 7:33:59 PM PDT by steve8714 (Who didn't already know Obama was our first gay President?)
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To: steve8714

You posted crap.

I called you on it.

Sob elsewhere.


35 posted on 06/12/2012 7:52:47 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

Yeah. Very sensitive.


36 posted on 06/13/2012 6:34:17 AM PDT by steve8714 (Who didn't already know Obama was our first gay President?)
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