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Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
AllGov ^ | June 11, 2012 | Noel Brinkerhoff

Posted on 06/12/2012 4:31:20 AM PDT by Rennes Templar

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To: Drill Thrawl

I wonder how many of these situations we never hear about...too bad, lots of cops have to die before it changes, or they might risk prison time...and the biggie can we say personal law suits against the rogues...something has to put a little fear in such actions...then they will stop....


151 posted on 06/12/2012 11:11:32 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: Tublecane
Then throw it back in the judges' faces by REMOVING THEM FROM THE BENCH,

I really don't understand where we get so many Freepers from who are afraid of removing judges. What are you, dhimmis?

152 posted on 06/12/2012 11:13:03 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
No, just because you call the cops that does not give them the right to enter your home. They asked for permission and were denied that permission. The man did not interfere with her right to access the cops. The cop’s first encounter with the male Barnes was in the parking lot. They had no probable cause to enter the apartment, which is why they asked for permission. He did not demand that the police leave the doorway of the apartment he only denied them access. The wife did not grant the police the access so he defended it.

The cops were wrong and the Supreme Court was wrong. The legislature corrected the court mistake.

153 posted on 06/12/2012 11:15:01 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Teacher317
Where I use the word "she" referring to the private person whose rights were violated BY HER EX, that's exactly where I am putting the emphasis.

You, on the other hand, are more intent on the abusive "ex".

Can you tell us why you think the former husband (who has moved out) Has rights superior to his former wife?

154 posted on 06/12/2012 11:15:32 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: papertyger
There was no property dispute. He told the cop he had moved out.

You keep ignoring the cop's introduction to the scene. It started with HER calling the cops. The key officer in the case stopped by on a quite ordinary call. Barnes said he was moved out. But, he made an attempt to prevent the officer from seeing the person (the woman) who called.

I believe he pushed the officer.

That's a real serious "Who struck john".

155 posted on 06/12/2012 11:24:15 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

>> Your right to request assistance from the cops just disappeared. <<

Not sure that is a right, ie - life, liberty, pursuit of happiness... Just sayin.

>> The cops won’t be helping you anymore. <<

They aren’t helping me now. Only thing I’ve ever gotten from cops is a ticket and an attitude.


156 posted on 06/12/2012 11:25:17 AM PDT by appalachian_dweller (Live each day as if it's your last. It might be.)
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To: muawiyah; Tublecane
Indiana judges may be removed in one of three ways: •On the recommendation of the commission on judicial qualifications, the supreme court may discipline, suspend, retire, or remove a judge. •Judges may be impeached by the house of representatives and convicted by the senate. •Judges may be removed by joint resolution of the general assembly, upon the agreement of two thirds of the members of each house.

The Legislature decided to pass a law instead of removal.

157 posted on 06/12/2012 11:25:17 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Winged Hussar
They didn't quite have probable cause to arrest him until the guy attacked them. If he'd stood aside and let them talk to his wife this case would have never happened.

There was no crime in progress when the cops arrived on the scene.

158 posted on 06/12/2012 11:32:54 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: zeugma
Actually, you notice nothing whatsoever. I remember most of you from the Bridegroom Killing in New York.

I was on the side of the guy who got shot ~ you all supported the NYPD blindly. Then there was the guy who pulled ID as directed and the cops unloaded on him. I was on his side and you all sided with the cops.

I'm siding with the woman in this case, and the right of the people of Indiana to not have the principles of Sharia law imposed on them.

159 posted on 06/12/2012 11:35:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: papertyger

Maybe ~ check your state’s statutes and precedental court judgments.


160 posted on 06/12/2012 11:38:21 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ratman83

The cops never made it to the door unmolested by Barnes ~ who’d told the officer on the scene in the parking lot that he’d left.


161 posted on 06/12/2012 11:40:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
There was no property dispute. He told the cop he had moved out.

Wrong. It would have been trespassing if he was not the lawful resident, or robbery if there was no property dispute.

That he was in the process of leaving his wife was irrelevant.

162 posted on 06/12/2012 11:43:52 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: muawiyah

That right there is unlawful entry. If they do not identify themselves and then still decide to storm in through the door, in any homeowners view, they are a intruder and can legally be shot.


163 posted on 06/12/2012 11:48:26 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: muawiyah
Maybe ~ check your state’s statutes and precedental court judgments.

Exactly my point. "Damsel in distress" is not a legitimate infraction of the legal code.

164 posted on 06/12/2012 11:51:36 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: muawiyah
Reed attempted to enter the apartment, and Barnes shoved him against the wall. Attempted unlawful entry by the police.
165 posted on 06/12/2012 11:53:02 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Blue Highway
Oh, yeah? Hardly the case. The Indiana Supreme Court didn't even deal with that issue ~ the majority decision simply said you couldn't lawfully resist even unlawful entry by the cops.

The guy didn't live there. He'd announced his intention. His stuff was out, and if it wasn't out he was entitled to his day in court to make his claim and in most places even have the Sheriff HELP HIM remove it.

The woman asked the cops to come to her place ~ and her right is paramount in this case. Don't ignore her right. The police actions follow directly from it.

166 posted on 06/12/2012 11:54:04 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ratman83

No, assault and battery by Barnes. The cop was there at the request of the woman who was by that moment the sole lawful occupant of the apartment.


167 posted on 06/12/2012 11:55:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

That’s still wrong the cops are there in the first place. Guy did nothing wrong and yet has to stand down in his own house? That’s the strong arm thuggery tactics that this law will prevent which is a good idea other states could learn from.


168 posted on 06/12/2012 11:56:16 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: zeugma

I used to be one of the biggest pro-WoD cop boosters here. My mind changed a while back based on watching trends in the news and my own personal experiences with LEOs, both official and casual (listening to LEOs talk shop when they think no one is listening is eye-opening). I think a lot of folks have had similar epiphanies.


169 posted on 06/12/2012 11:57:12 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: Blue Highway
You are entirely too dramatic. This is a case ~ a simple case actually ~ where a woman invited the cops over on official business.

The cops came. A guy jumped them at the door.

He was certainly not trying to defend her!

170 posted on 06/12/2012 11:57:34 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Blue Highway

Wasn’t his house. He’d already said that to the cop in the parking lot.


171 posted on 06/12/2012 11:59:02 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah; Blue Highway
The guy didn't live there. He'd announced his intention. His stuff was out, and if it wasn't out he was entitled to his day in court to make his claim and in most places even have the Sheriff HELP HIM remove it.He was moving out, he was getting his stuff and leaving he was not out.

The woman asked the cops to come to her place But she did not give them permission to enter the apartment when they asked.

172 posted on 06/12/2012 12:00:35 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: papertyger
It was highly relevant. That's the whole point. He'd moved out. All his stuff was there in the truck. He no longer had any apparent property interest in the apartment, and if he did the courts stand ready for claims every day but Saturday and Sunday.

There is literally no reason whatsoever for Barnes to have returned to the apartment and pushed a cop.

173 posted on 06/12/2012 12:02:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ratman83
Review her phone call please. She gave them all the permission they needed to come and visit with her. She was not trying to close the door either ~ it appears to have been opened!

Barnes struck first ~ always a bad move. This law doesn't change that ~ in fact, when Barnes struck the officer he had probable cause to do a lot of things. He didn't do everything he could have.

75 years ago Barnes would have gone to the hospital next.

174 posted on 06/12/2012 12:04:38 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Wasn’t his house. He’d already said that to the cop in the parking lot.

He never said that, he said he was getting his stuff and leaving.

175 posted on 06/12/2012 12:08:25 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Ratman83

Right, the cops bullied their way in to the apartment. They have no business in doing so. No search warrant, no consent. They should be considered intruders once they cross that threshold in this circumstance.


176 posted on 06/12/2012 12:08:25 PM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: muawiyah
It was highly relevant. That's the whole point. He'd moved out. All his stuff was there in the truck.

Putting all your stuff in a truck does not terminate your residency.

As I said, it would have been trespassing if he had no right to be there.

177 posted on 06/12/2012 12:09:25 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: muawiyah

Actualy Barnes was in the doorway, for the officer to enter he had to touch Barnes and Barnes responded.


178 posted on 06/12/2012 12:11:11 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Rennes Templar

Perhaps this will make them check addresses more carefully?


179 posted on 06/12/2012 12:11:46 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Migrating elephant herds react badly to flaming motor homes and dry ice doesn't repel killer bees)
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To: Ratman83
The door was open. Barnes attempt to prevent the officer from meeting with the woman could well have been taken in what amounts to kidnapping almost anywhere.

Look, guys, I don't really care if you beat your women, but keep it at home, behind closed doors, and with plenty of soundproofing. You go running around in the parking lot making noise I will find my peaceable use of my own property endangered and will call the cops.

I lived in a highrise once where the local sewer authority decided to drill a tunnel through solid rock immediately below my window. They were given from 7 AM to 7 PM To do the job. Once or twice they carried on until 10 PM. Then came the day when they kept it up until the wee hours of the morning.

There were numerous people who fired on the transformer that provided them the power to run their drills and the cooler that kept their beer cold, and the portapotty.

Wasn't me BTW, but I was really surprised how many rounds were involved ~ a regular range party Fur Shur.

The cops didn't respond until the next day. That's one of the few times I thought they did a really good job.

Oh, they didn't even interview people but, of course, nobody had seen or heard a thing.

180 posted on 06/12/2012 12:12:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: nascarnation

Oh, ok. Thanks for the info. I had never heard that before.


181 posted on 06/12/2012 12:13:01 PM PDT by lupie
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To: papertyger
Barnes said he moved. He did not challenge his wife's claim that the black bag was the last thing.

I'm sorry, that bad boy was outta' there.

Again, no reason to be there at all ~ and he touched the officer.

182 posted on 06/12/2012 12:14:11 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Little Ray
"That was a heck of a kick to shatter his own leg.
He needs lay off the steroids..."
well, not necessarily
...in the martial arts (as a Nidan); we're taught & practice
"stomp kicks"; doing it "imprecisely" really hurts bad.
btw...they now have devices, that performs that function.

183 posted on 06/12/2012 12:16:50 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (WA DC E$tabli$hment; DNC/RNC/Unionists...Brazilian saying: "$@me Old $hit; different flie$". :^)
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To: Blue Highway

Yes and the trial court would not let him use as a jury instruction in his defense. The Court of Appeals said that he should have been able to use it and that it was not harmless error. The Supreme Court just ignored the common-law right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers. They concluded that public policy disfavors any such right.


184 posted on 06/12/2012 12:17:29 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: muawiyah
Barnes attempt to prevent the officer from meeting with the woman could well have been taken in what amounts to kidnapping almost anywhere.

He did not prevent her from leaving the home.

Doesn't reaching up your poop chute that much, hurt?

185 posted on 06/12/2012 12:18:08 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: Blue Highway

You are applying standards not found everywhere. Some of the state laws don’t care who opened the door, nor even if the intruder is there lawfully.


186 posted on 06/12/2012 12:18:17 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
There was not a domestic abuse call made. No reason for the cops to speculate even though she called them for whatever reason. Kidnapping from refusing their entry into a residence is a stretch. Nice try there.

Also were you saying good job to the cops or the people that were firing at the transformer that the sewer company was doing late night construction? My praise would be to the people firing at the transformer, not the cops. Hell the cops should have been there for the multiple violations and yet somehow where were they?

187 posted on 06/12/2012 12:18:20 PM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: muawiyah
You think it was tough getting the cops to deal with crime before, now there's no reason whatsoever for them to do so.

There never has seemed to be a actual reason for them to deal with crime. They are very good at writing reports.

So I move that we fire the lot of them since according to you they are a bunch of whinny little girls.

(Apologies to all the whinny little girls I offended with that remark.)

188 posted on 06/12/2012 12:20:48 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Migrating elephant herds react badly to flaming motor homes and dry ice doesn't repel killer bees)
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To: muawiyah

your response makes no sense. An intruder by definition is someone there unlawfully or illegally. How can you have a lawful intruder?


189 posted on 06/12/2012 12:21:19 PM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: muawiyah
Look up his bio on the internet.

Someone did post it. It isn't a very close relationship.

Now, just who are you to doubt my assertion that an Arab American is, in fact, an Arab American well known by nearly everyone meaningful to be an Arab American!

Now, don't get your shorts in a wad! :) I have no doubt that I am not a meaningful person, but I have paid some attention to Daniels and had never heard him called an Arab American before. I also know a very solid Christian young man who works for him, who I know would not work for a Muslim sympathizer. So, to see that you hint that Daniels is a Muslim sympathizer because he is an Arab American, I was curious as to why you said 1) that he was an Arab American, and 2) that you hinted that he was a closet Muslim sympathizer because of that "fact". I was curious (still am) as to why you make those claims and what proof you have to back it up. I really don't care who knows what. That is one thing I have always liked about FR - you can't say anything absurb without someone asking you to back it up with facts. That is all I was doing - asking you for your facts to back up your statement. Why should I believe anything without the facts? Why should anyone?

190 posted on 06/12/2012 12:22:26 PM PDT by lupie
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To: muawiyah
He did not challenge his wife's claim that the black bag was the last thing.

Doesn't matter. You do not give up rights to your residence without formal process.

191 posted on 06/12/2012 12:24:39 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: appalachian_dweller
They aren’t helping me now. Only thing I’ve ever gotten from cops is a ticket and an attitude.

Key point. Cops no longer exist to protect and serve, they exist to enforce. If there is nothing to enforce, and they become sufficiently interested in you, they will FIND something. You interact with them at your peril.

192 posted on 06/12/2012 12:24:44 PM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: lupie
I know somehow I doubt this man is part Syrian? I don't see it AT ALL...


193 posted on 06/12/2012 12:26:25 PM PDT by Blue Highway
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Comment #194 Removed by Moderator

Comment #195 Removed by Moderator

To: muawiyah
The door was open. The doorway was occupied by a person. The police tried to move that person to enter, they tried to do a unlawful entry.

Look, guys, I don't really care if you beat your women, but keep it at home Stop projecting you own actions on others.

196 posted on 06/12/2012 12:32:32 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

In the final analysis, the only real function of the police is to keep society from killing off its deviants.


197 posted on 06/12/2012 12:33:06 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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Comment #198 Removed by Moderator

Comment #199 Removed by Moderator

To: Ratman83
You really think you can hide your motives in this debate?

It's hardly my projection.

Keep it down in there and stay off my grass! Your noisy kids too.

200 posted on 06/12/2012 12:39:29 PM PDT by muawiyah
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