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Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers
AllGov ^ | June 11, 2012 | Noel Brinkerhoff

Posted on 06/12/2012 4:31:20 AM PDT by Rennes Templar

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To: papertyger

She said he tossed her stuff. The cops had every right to make a housecall without a warrant. He had no right to attack the cops.


51 posted on 06/12/2012 5:19:13 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rennes Templar

This is completely appropriate. If someone (an official or not) enters a home without probable cause or warrant, they are not acting with any authority granted them by the people and should be apprehended or killed as any other person would.

Without the authority of the people, a badge is as meaningless as one bought in a toystore, and should be dismissed just as easily.


52 posted on 06/12/2012 5:20:27 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: muawiyah
You probably won't like life as much where the other guy is his own arbiter of what the law provides.

Save your fairy tale hypotheticals. When you have a substantive justification for my rights being crushed for the expediency of LE: we'll talk.

53 posted on 06/12/2012 5:20:49 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: muir_redwoods
Small Town Militarization: Keene, NH Gets a Freaking Tank
Keene NH is a college town of about 20,000 people [including the students].


54 posted on 06/12/2012 5:21:23 AM PDT by ex91B10 (We've tried the Soap Box,the Ballot Box and the Jury Box; one box left.)
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To: Rennes Templar

I’m sure the wording of the law will look nice on the homeowner’s tombstone.


55 posted on 06/12/2012 5:22:34 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: muawiyah

Very enlightening, thanks, but if the law prevents wrongful home entry by lethal teams of police, then it’s a good thing, even though it doesn’t address the perhaps more widely important matter of intrusion of Sharia law in US courts.


56 posted on 06/12/2012 5:22:49 AM PDT by Marylander (Offendiphobia)
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To: Rennes Templar

Quit shooting people’s pets for no reason and busted down doors at the wrong address because you’re too lazy to do a double-check it and we wouldn’t see these kinds of laws. About time....now, they better be right or they could be legally shot. Works for me.


57 posted on 06/12/2012 5:24:04 AM PDT by lgjhn23
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To: papertyger
Your wife or child calls the cops ~ you shoot them because they didn't come with a warrant.

I"d suspect that's not a hypothetical with you.

58 posted on 06/12/2012 5:24:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rennes Templar

Nothing tweaks a power junkie more than a level playing field.


59 posted on 06/12/2012 5:25:41 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (they have no god but caesar)
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To: muawiyah
She said he tossed her stuff.

That's for the court to determine, not a cop. "Her stuff" is a pretty fluid concept when a marriage is dissolving.

He had no more business getting into the middle of it than he would if she was pissed he didn't take out the trash.

60 posted on 06/12/2012 5:27:50 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: Spktyr

According to this could the Texas state authorities have intervened in the Waco stand off because the ATF was clearly violating the state rights of the residents in the compound.

Wouldn’t that have been a site to see. All the ATF and FBI agents getting surrounded by Texas Rangers and National Guard to force them to stand down and allow the Dividians to walk out.


61 posted on 06/12/2012 5:30:11 AM PDT by BobinIL
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To: papertyger
Hubby should have taken his dispute with her to court, right. Tell him that next time.

She still had a right to call the cops ~ and they had a right to be secure in their persons ~ they don't lose their constitutional rights simply because they work for the government.

62 posted on 06/12/2012 5:30:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: papertyger
Hubby should have taken his dispute with her to court, right. Tell him that next time.

She still had a right to call the cops ~ and they had a right to be secure in their persons ~ they don't lose their constitutional rights simply because they work for the government.

63 posted on 06/12/2012 5:30:56 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Your wife or child calls the cops ~ you shoot them because they didn't come with a warrant.

No, that would be the "fairy tale."

64 posted on 06/12/2012 5:31:24 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: muawiyah

Does the law say cops can’t come without a warrant or does it say homeowner/resident can use force to stop unlawful entry by cop [or anyone?]

I don’t understand the disconnect. I think everyone would agree that we need some restraint on the unlawful tactics used by LE in crashing down doors of the wrong house and not being accountable.

What makes you think this law will prevent officers from showing up when they’re called for help - that’s not an illegal entry.


65 posted on 06/12/2012 5:36:26 AM PDT by Principled (It's not enthusiasm for Romney, it's grim determination to remove Hussein)
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To: trisham

Thanks for the info on Daniels’ background.


66 posted on 06/12/2012 5:38:08 AM PDT by Marylander (Offendiphobia)
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To: muawiyah
Hubby should have taken his dispute with her to court, right.

No, wifey should have.....

Unless he was beating her, this is another "chicken mcnuggets" call. 

67 posted on 06/12/2012 5:39:15 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: Rennes Templar
Tim Downs, president of the Indiana State Fraternal Order of Police, which opposed the legislation

Hey, if you guys aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to fear - is that how it goes?
68 posted on 06/12/2012 5:42:06 AM PDT by andyk (Go Juan Pablo!)
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To: Rennes Templar

About d*mn time. Please God, let this go nationwide!


69 posted on 06/12/2012 5:42:06 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: muawiyah

10 years ago there were few people more pro-cop than I was. I have seen them devolve into a hyper militarized street gang with a shoot first, screw the questions attitude. The war on (some) drugs caused it but my sympathy is tapped out. It’s time they got a clear message about their legitimate mission and who they work for.


70 posted on 06/12/2012 5:43:23 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (I like Obamacare because Granny signed the will and I need the cash)
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To: Rennes Templar

Thank God.


71 posted on 06/12/2012 5:50:27 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: andyk
Hey, if you guys aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to fear - is that how it goes?

Well played andyk, well played sir.

72 posted on 06/12/2012 5:53:04 AM PDT by Principled (It's not enthusiasm for Romney, it's grim determination to remove Hussein)
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To: Rennes Templar

Perhaps this is just the beginning of “citizen safety” legislation.


73 posted on 06/12/2012 5:54:11 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Fun for women ages 21 through 35)
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To: muir_redwoods

Best post so far.


74 posted on 06/12/2012 5:58:06 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: muir_redwoods

If the police do not have a natural respect for the person, property and rights of the citizenry it is perfectly appropriate to legislate it for them. In light of the wave of abuses that we’ve seen nationwide, anything that makes a LEO stop and consider the consequences of his actions is a good thing.


75 posted on 06/12/2012 5:58:36 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: Rennes Templar

Dear Mr. Police Officer.

1. Make certain that you have a warrant.
2. Make sure you have the correct house.
3. Serve your warrant in a polite and professional manner. If you think I’m dangerous, serve it while I’m not home and get someone to pick me up away from the house.
4. Don’t shoot my dog.
5. In general, treat me like what I am - NOT GUILTY until convicted in a court of law.

We’ll get a long fine.

Private Citizen


76 posted on 06/12/2012 5:58:40 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: muawiyah

If the cops weren’t acting like third-world death squads, this wouldn’t be necessary.


77 posted on 06/12/2012 6:01:38 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: muawiyah
Like I told your little friend there, you won't like things as well when all those other guys get to decide what's lawful all on their lonesome. You might imagine it's you against the criminals ~ there are thousands of folks out there who will imagine it's themselves against YOU the criminal. Eventually you will tire of carrying around all that ammunition just so you have some chance of escaping alive when your door dings theirs in the grocery store parking lot. And don't try to beat that woman to the strawberry pack ~ she's going to have to decide the law in such cases and it won't be pretty.

I could make a large baloney sandwich out of that.
78 posted on 06/12/2012 6:04:54 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Little Ray
Great rules. But the sideshow-worthy flexibility of "probabaly cause" makes all of them moot.

1. No warrant is needed if there is "probable cause".
2. It doesn't matter if you go to the wrong house if there is "probable cause" somewhere nearby.
3. If there is "probable cause" you can wait to serve a warrant to someone after he is cuffed and prone on his face. Or pin it to his cooling corpse.
4. Shooting family dogs is always covered by probable cause. Even if no crime had been reported and the policeman was on patrol.
5. You're kidding right? They have PROBABALE CAUSE!

79 posted on 06/12/2012 6:12:44 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: muawiyah

This “little friend” is a husband, father, small business owner, home owner, and Church member.

As for tiring “of carrying around all that ammunition.”

It hasn’t happened in twenty years: I wouldn’t expect it anytime soon.


80 posted on 06/12/2012 6:13:54 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: Marylander

You’re welcome!


81 posted on 06/12/2012 6:21:48 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: uncbob

End the damn WOD that spawned these travesties of justice


You sir, are totally correct. End the War on Drugs and end the so-called War on terror. The BIGGEST losers in those two efforts have been the citizens of the United States.


82 posted on 06/12/2012 6:24:20 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: Rennes Templar
How many times a year do we hear of LEOs storming the wrong house looking for a suspect.

Lucky none of them have been shot or killed by some homeowner protecting their family.

83 posted on 06/12/2012 6:30:01 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Rennes Templar
How many times a year do we hear of LEOs storming the wrong house looking for a suspect.

Lucky none of them have been shot or killed by some homeowner protecting their family.

84 posted on 06/12/2012 6:30:19 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: muawiyah
but Mitch Daniels is Arab American

That is the first time I have ever heard that - where does that come from? Why do you say that?

85 posted on 06/12/2012 6:30:34 AM PDT by lupie
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To: Spktyr
I’ve been trying to remember the last time I heard of a Texas SWAT unit pulling a “whoops, wrong house, we meant to raid the house down the block” screwup, and I don’t think I’ve heard of one in the last ten years. I’m pretty sure 9.31 and 9.32 are why.

What would really cut down on the "oopsies" would be Attorney Generals willing to charge police with Negligent Homicide if they shoot somebody due to showing up at the wrong address.

86 posted on 06/12/2012 6:30:34 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: Rennes Templar; All
maybe a fitting name for the law is needed:
"Donald P. Scott Law"
follow the (quickly searched) url:
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-15/local/me-868_1_preliminary-findings
speaks for itself...

87 posted on 06/12/2012 6:30:56 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (WA DC E$tabli$hment; DNC/RNC/Unionists...Brazilian saying: "$@me Old $hit; different flie$". :^)
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To: Rennes Templar

“the law could open the way for people who are under the influence or emotionally distressed to attack officers in their homes”

Good.

What is this mindset, anyway, that would let cops commit crimes and leave people defenseless just because they might be depressed or something? Guess what, coppers, you can no longer go about assuming everyone’s a criminal until proven otherwise.


88 posted on 06/12/2012 6:32:44 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: lupie

Great grandparents came from Syria.

It’s a pretty tenuous connection.

Kind of like saying I’m an Irish American because my Dad’s grandparents came from Ireland.


89 posted on 06/12/2012 6:34:27 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: BigCinBigD

“It just puts a bounty on our heads.”

I don’t even understand what he’s saying here. Does he know what the word “bounty” means? The point is to imply it’ll make Indiana the wild, wild west. But if that’s the case, it’s because the cops are acting like they’re in the wild west. If that’s so, the other side should get to act the same; it’s only fair. What is it they always tell us? So long as they aren’t breaking the law they have nothing to fear.


90 posted on 06/12/2012 6:36:36 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: TexasCajun
Lucky, I guess it is.

But I can't help but think that a couple of decisive 10-00s on wrong house no-knock raids might cause a much-needed policy review. And maybe weed out a few hotheads.

91 posted on 06/12/2012 6:40:24 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: muawiyah

If they break in from unlawful entry then yes. They would not get shot for a misunderstanding though.


92 posted on 06/12/2012 6:40:47 AM PDT by Blue Highway
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To: Marylander
Now is the time for the other 49 to do the same.

Here in Virginia there is but a slight chance of successful legislation whatwith the influx of liberals in the northern part of the state. I also have a place in Pennsylvania; there's more of a chance there.

93 posted on 06/12/2012 6:41:57 AM PDT by OldPossum
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To: ZX12R

Don’t forget Ruby Ridge..


94 posted on 06/12/2012 6:42:56 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: Rennes Templar

This is not new. If you check your history, the northern New York State area, in the Prohibition Era was the scene of bootlegging and liquor smuggling from Canada into the U.S.
During that time the Revenooers were always here looking for hidden hooch stills and secret staches of smuggled liquor here in the mountain caves etc. There are records here in the local papers and tales from my family, especially my mother, who was a part-time hooch driver for her landlady, for smuggling it down the lake and on to NY City. My great uncle was also involved- he had a mountain cave full of Canadian smuggled liquor on the lake and would load boats at night to head south. It is well known here that the Revenoors in their quest to find the hidden liquor would go into people`s houses searching sometimes without warrants. But they made the really big mistake when they attempted to enter the mountain top farms here, coz every farm had a still. They were promptly driven out by our neighbors up a little higher by bursts of shotgun rocksalt. This went on for many years and it was never contested by the government that the hillbillies here had a right to shoot at any armed federal or govt officer trespassing on their property.
We live the Constitution up here and practice for over 225 years no illegal search and seizures allowed and we back it up with rocksalt.
This practice was also recently inadvisably renewed by the State EPA here who were sued by a farmer a few years back. Now no State EPA is allowed to come onto any farmland without permission from the farm owner, warrant or no warrant due to the precedeent of non-suit by the Feds during Prohibition./.


95 posted on 06/12/2012 6:42:56 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 (illegal search????? what??`?? Who knew?)
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To: Tublecane
I don’t even understand what he’s saying here

Sure you do. He's offering a Red Herring. You and I won't buy it, but the cringing bedwetters in the MSM will.

96 posted on 06/12/2012 6:43:00 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: baddog 219
Don’t forget Ruby Ridge.

Never. And never forget the mighty M2 round, the final guarantor of freedom when all else is gone. It served Kevin Harris well.

97 posted on 06/12/2012 6:47:14 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: muawiyah

Odd how you’re the only one focused on the case, when the article and the thread are all concentrated on the law. There is a ton of support for the law, no matter what the facts and history of that domestic dispute are. You might as well argue against the abolition of slavery because you didn’t like the personal background of President Buchanan or the Justices on the Court in the Dred Scott case.


98 posted on 06/12/2012 6:47:14 AM PDT by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: muawiyah

“The cops in the instant case were responding to a citizens lawful request for help.”

You keep repeating this, but I don’t see the relevance. Just because they had a reason to be there doesn’t mean they didn’t go on to break the law. But nevermind. Whatever else the case was about, the decision asserted falsely that citizens do not have the right to defend themselves against unlawful entry by the cops. That is wrong and needs to be thrown back in the judges’ faces, no matter whether the cops were justified or not in that particular case.


99 posted on 06/12/2012 6:48:45 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: muawiyah

“In this case no one shot the dog, the cops were there at the invitation of the resident, there was no dynamic entry,...”

So? You’re not arguing such never happens, are you? Well, when it does, we retain the right to defend ourselves.


100 posted on 06/12/2012 6:50:39 AM PDT by Tublecane
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