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Editorial: Vote ‘yes’ to retire UND logo (Fighting Sioux)
The Forum (Fargo, N.D.) ^ | 5 June 2012 | editorial board

Posted on 06/12/2012 8:40:42 AM PDT by Vigilanteman

All the arguments have been heard. The debate, which has raged for years, comes down to Tuesday’s vote on Measure 4 – whether to retire the University of North Dakota’s Fighting Sioux logo and nickname. North Dakotans who understand the greatness of a university is not defined by flawed imagery should vote “yes.” North Dakotans who understand that UND has been hurt by the nickname flap – and will be further damaged if the debate drags on – should vote “yes.”

It really is that simple. The questions every voter should ask: Is the future of the university more important than making a quixotic statement about facing down the NCAA? Is protecting and enhancing the athletic and academic status of UND more important than an obviously selfish personal agenda (“They can’t take my logo away”)? Is maintaining the best possible Division I sports and classroom experiences for student/athletes more important than proving a moot point (masquerading as “standing on principle”)?

(Excerpt) Read more at inforum.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: North Dakota
KEYWORDS: ncaa; pc; sioux; wimps
A longtime North Dakota friend of mine told me that an important decision in his voting choices was to carefully review the editorial positions of The Forum, the states largest newspaper, and then do just the opposite.

At the time, I thought him a little bit extreme, but have now come to the conclusion he is right.

The Forum seems to embrace every big government and politically correct fad which comes along.

This is a stupid editorial. There is not a word about how the nearest Sioux tribe to UND loves the nickname and wears the school colors with pride. There is not even a word about how the biggest Sioux tribe on the opposite end of the state voted their entire tribal leadership out of office for opposing the use of the nickname. And that opposition wasn't based on any real or imagined offense, just an inability to shake down UND for enough free stuff in return for their support.

Exactly how is standing up to the NCAA political correctness nazis going to hurt the opportunities for UND graduates?

1 posted on 06/12/2012 8:40:51 AM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: Vigilanteman

White libs could care very little for the Indians, they are but a prop in their one upmanship game against other whites, in the end they are nihilists as are all other human perfectionists (humans always fail them).


2 posted on 06/12/2012 8:46:10 AM PDT by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: Vigilanteman

I think in 2012 (except for the usual poverty/plantation/reservation crowd) most of our Native American Indians are more conservative than liberal.


3 posted on 06/12/2012 8:46:12 AM PDT by JSDude1
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To: Vigilanteman

4 posted on 06/12/2012 8:48:28 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Vigilanteman

If I were a citizen of North Dakota I would vote NO.Why on earth would the people of North Dakota want to deny a part of their history.

Just because some east or west coast P.C. Clowns don’t like their nickname.Vote NO and tell them to stuff it where the sun won’t shine.


5 posted on 06/12/2012 8:48:59 AM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: Vigilanteman

I deal wirh licensed collegiate logowear, and all I can sy is, it’s very popular. Orders have been trmendous ahead of a feared move away from Fighting Sioux.


6 posted on 06/12/2012 8:49:29 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Vigilanteman

Anyone with any degree of intelligence understands that the nickname, “Fighting Souix” is viewed by the majority of the Souix Nation as complimentary and not as a put down. Liberalism is a mental illness. I almost wish that my wife and I were back in N. Dak. so that we could vote against this stupidity.


7 posted on 06/12/2012 9:04:49 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: Vigilanteman

I say an earlier reply to a similar post on this, so I am stealing part of the reply, New Name:

The Insufferables


8 posted on 06/12/2012 9:05:56 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator (Article 58)
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To: Vigilanteman
"Fighting Sioux" is not derogatory, I see it as a way of honoring the Sioux.
The team took the name because we admire the Indians for their bravery.
Are we to get to the point where American Indian tribes can not be mentioned at all, thus relegating them to forgotten history?
Is that the real purpose?
What we need at this point is to stand up against PC. Let's be brave too.

9 posted on 06/12/2012 9:08:20 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Vigilanteman
PC campaign = automatic NO.
10 posted on 06/12/2012 9:09:42 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: SoldierDad
Anyone with any degree of intelligence understands that the nickname, “Fighting Souix” is viewed by the majority of the Souix Nation as complimentary and not as a put down.

Good. I didn't have to post it.

11 posted on 06/12/2012 9:15:39 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Vigilanteman
As a matter of record:

It looks to be a complimentary depiction.

12 posted on 06/12/2012 9:19:19 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Vigilanteman
history of the evil,racist,high cheekboned, Sioux logos:


13 posted on 06/12/2012 9:19:30 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Vigilanteman

So is Florida State next? Seminoles. PC in this country is OUT OF CONTROL. Whoever started this crap needs a big kick in the azz!


14 posted on 06/12/2012 9:27:36 AM PDT by ASouthernGrl (BHO sucks)
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To: Vigilanteman

I went to a school whose nickname was The Trojans

Every year you could see signs saying “Be a Trojan” plastered all over the school which very quickly had the ‘B’ covered up with a ‘US’

...to change it to “Use a Trojan”


15 posted on 06/12/2012 9:35:39 AM PDT by Mr. K (I AM WRITING-IN PALIN/GINGRICH)
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To: Carry_Okie
It looks to be a complimentary depiction.

the artist who designed it is actually a member of the Sioux Nations.
16 posted on 06/12/2012 9:37:21 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: ASouthernGrl
The Seminoles and Utes had the foresight from the get-go to approach the NCAA PC nazis on their own and threaten big time legal action if their mascots were ever messed with.

I don't think you will see the NCAA weenies ever challenge Florida or Utah as a result.

17 posted on 06/12/2012 9:39:53 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Vigilanteman

“The Seminoles and Utes had the foresight from the get-go to approach the NCAA PC nazis on their own and threaten big time legal action if their mascots were ever messed with.”

I just really wish the University of Illinois had such foresight. Unfortunately, there are apparently no survivors from the Illini tribe — we can’t even ask for permission anymore. Chief Illiniwek was always portrayed with dignity.


18 posted on 06/12/2012 9:46:24 AM PDT by ne1410s ("If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
What's great about those who came up with the ‘Fightin’ Whities’ campaign was the response to their implied question of “Well, how do you whites like it when it's on the other foot”? Answer? We loved it and thought it was clever and funny! Not at all what they expected.
19 posted on 06/12/2012 9:46:56 AM PDT by JPG (Don't just talk about it, make it happen.)
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To: Vigilanteman
You are apt to the point, and completely right in my opinion.

Nothing is more idiotic than the going assumption, in the media and academia, that it is offensive for people to take pride in their heritage, ethnicity, community or family. To their credit, most American Indian tribes seem to do a better job of resisting the insanity labelled "political correctness," than do most White Americans.

This idiotic agitation--taken up as a "cause," by those who seek to dictate to Universities that wish to participate in interscholastic sport--demonstrates not any actual principle, but a craven suppliant acceptance of a contrived agitation.

What is actually going on, here, and in so many other aspects of our contemporary life, is an attack on the actual diversity of peoples, pushed in the name of promoting "diversity." (If that sounds insane, it is. But I am not the one pushing it.)

See Putting Diversity In Context.

What would be nice here, would be if the Sioux Nation filed suit against the NCAA for trying to deny the Nation a recognition of their heritage in a land that once was theirs (The Dakotas). I do not know if they could find a Court to give a fair hearing; but it might be worth a try.

William Flax

20 posted on 06/12/2012 9:47:45 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: ASouthernGrl

“So is Florida State next? Seminoles. PC in this country is OUT OF CONTROL. Whoever started this crap needs a big kick in the azz!”

When they change the name of the Washington Redskins football team, I will take this seriously. Everyone has to be PC except the hacks in DC.

By the way, would be a great Republican Ad to show the lunacy of this.


21 posted on 06/12/2012 9:53:50 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (ABO 2012)
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To: junta

The “Fighting Irish” are next.


22 posted on 06/12/2012 10:02:48 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Vigilanteman

Only the sort of decayed sensibility that thinks nothing is worth fighting for and nothing is worth dying for is offended by American Indian athletic mascots.

With some odd exceptions like the Nebraska Cornhuskers and the Oklahoma Sooners, by and large, all human athletic mascots are tributes to martial virtue. Besides various American Indian mascots, there are the Fighting Irish, various Viking-named teams (notably the NFL franchise in Minnesota), the Yeshiva University Maccabees, the USC Trojans, and hosts of college and high school teams with names like the Knights, the Cavaliers, etc.

I am not offended by Viking mascots paying tribute to the ferocity of my Norwegian ancestors, and actually rather like it, for the same reason that members of tribes honored in the names of sports teams tend to support those teams and the maintenance of their mascots.

Only pacifists and faux pacifists who sneer at the notion of martial virtue could possibly be offended by the Fighting Sioux. Evidently the editorialist is of that ilk.


23 posted on 06/12/2012 10:06:10 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

They could change their name to “The Fighting Sue!”

Maybe they could adapt that Johnny Cash song.

Or maybe they would get more applicants for their Law School.


24 posted on 06/12/2012 10:30:20 AM PDT by cookcounty ("We're all born idiots, and we only get over that condition as we get less young." -J Goldberg)
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To: Vigilanteman
I say go for "Fighting Sues" (or "Fighting Suzies")


25 posted on 06/12/2012 10:30:20 AM PDT by Suz in AZ
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To: Vigilanteman

Would it still be offensive if the “North Dakota Fighting Sioux” changed their name to the “North Sioux Fighting Dakotans?”

And why are “stolen place names” OK?

Maybe they should rename the state “North Farmerville” to avoid offending the Dakota tribe.

Though I personally like the “State of Bismarck.”

They could call the University teams the Bismarck Creamy Big Bites,” ——or would that offend people from New York City?


26 posted on 06/12/2012 10:40:09 AM PDT by cookcounty ("We're all born idiots, and we only get over that condition as we get less young." -J Goldberg)
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To: Vigilanteman

You know, as a person of a minority region, I’m personally offended by the sectionalist and divisive bigotry of a team that would call itself the “New York Yankees.”

They should go with something more appropriate for their city, like the “New York Nannies.” or maybe “The Ninnies.”


27 posted on 06/12/2012 10:46:18 AM PDT by cookcounty ("We're all born idiots, and we only get over that condition as we get less young." -J Goldberg)
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To: cookcounty
"Maybe they should rename the state “North Farmerville” "

"Winter" would be more appropriate. They have only two seasons there: "Winter" and "Bad Ice".

28 posted on 06/12/2012 10:51:20 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Vigilanteman

I think they should retire the old name and logo. Then they could rename themselves the UND Cinder Blocks. After all it’s really hard to offend construction materials.


29 posted on 06/12/2012 11:24:56 AM PDT by Sunshine Sister
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To: SoldierDad

The Seminole tribe and FSU get along quite well, and UND and the Sioux should as well. The team names honor their respective tribes. This is just Liberal idiots sticking there noses into places they don’t belong, fomenting division for the sake of division and smug self-superiority that is completely undeserved. You don’t see those of Scandinavian heritage getting all upset about the Minnesota Vikings, do you? No, the name is chosen because the teams respect the qualities of their namesakes.

On FSU, here are two links of interest from the tribe and the university that speak to the issue. UND and the Sioux would do well to follow suit.

http://www.semtribe.com/SeminoleTribune/Archive/1999/mar5/board.shtml

http://www.seminoles.com/trads/fsu-trads-seminoles.html


30 posted on 06/12/2012 11:28:24 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Vigilanteman

When teams take on a name, it’s because that name has significance. It’s a name with honor, and will be honored every time the teams take to the field.

Baseball, basketball, football, swimming, water polo, wrestling, and any other sports, will see games contested under the name of the Sioux.

The students will wear that name with pride. People will contemplate where the name originated, and realize that it is a fitting, noble, name.

If they do vote to change the name, I hope they replace it with the ‘Worry Warts’.


31 posted on 06/12/2012 11:29:41 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Republicanism: Y1 Rant Y2 Rant Y3 Rant Y4, Oh nevermind, vote for him anyway. Rinse & Repeat!)
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To: Mich Patriot
PC campaign = automatic NO.

You win the conciseness award.

Any normal person understands that the newspapering world was overrun long ago by pecksniffy uber-liberal nanny-staters who want to stand over the rest of the human race as part of a Big Brother dystopian, totalist regime. They're maggots, in other words.

Vote "no" on anything maggot-infested as this phony controversy is, which is just a test of political strength and of the strength of their propaganda methods.

Do you think they care about this issue? They care about whether they can get over on Dakotan voters. That's what they care about.

32 posted on 06/12/2012 11:34:21 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Vigilanteman

Having gone to the University of North Dakota myself, I am sick of all this PC BS. About the Fargo forum, however, it is in Fargo, home of UND’s biggest rival, North Dakota State University. I can’t help but wonder, how much bias do the NDSU fans at the Fargo Forum have against UND?


33 posted on 06/12/2012 11:36:35 AM PDT by Mark17 (California, where English is a foreign language)
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To: cookcounty

How about the “Fighting 7th Cavalry”?


34 posted on 06/12/2012 11:37:42 AM PDT by Miles the Slasher
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To: FreedomPoster

I am not an FSU fan, but I support their RIGHT to maintain their team name and mascot, and thus honor the Siminole Tribes in Florida.


35 posted on 06/12/2012 11:39:56 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: cookcounty
They should go with something more appropriate for their city, like the “New York Nannies.” or maybe “The Ninnies.”

Or maybe the "New York It-Fell-Off-a-Truck".

36 posted on 06/12/2012 11:40:40 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: norwaypinesavage
"Winter" would be more appropriate. They have only two seasons there: "Winter" and "Bad Ice".

After having lived in N.D. for five years (1977 - 1983), and having endured windchill temps as low as -115, I can unequivocally state you are wrong. N.D. has four seasons. Just because Spring and Fall only last two weeks doesn't mean they don't exist.

37 posted on 06/12/2012 11:43:36 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: SoldierDad

Same here. And again, the Seminole tribe is on record as saying they LIKE it. So shut the heck up, NCAA and other PC idiots.


38 posted on 06/12/2012 12:10:03 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Mark17
. . . how much bias do the NDSU fans at the Fargo Forum have against UND?

Disclosure: I'm an NDSU alumni and while our respective alma mater's have a healthy rivalry, I would not begin to claim veto rights over a rival school's mascot for any reason.

The Forum, when I lived there, claimed to be a Republican leaning newspaper. If so, it backed the establishment GOP to the hilt (see my Freeper page) and treated the quarter century long all-Democrat congressional team (Conrad, Dorgan & Pomeroy) like the national establishment press treats Obama.

Long story short is that it is not suprising to see that they have deterioriated to this much of a leftist bootlicker, but I wouldn't judge Fargo or NDSU by them.

39 posted on 06/12/2012 12:59:10 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Vigilanteman
Change the name; NOW!!! To Some Boys Named Sioux. That'll SURELY make 'em FIGHT!!
40 posted on 06/12/2012 1:00:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Miles the Slasher

Great idea, though I might just say “cavalry” and nickname them the “troopers.”


41 posted on 06/12/2012 1:21:25 PM PDT by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: SoldierDad

having a team named a people is an honor like the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame, the Minnesota Vikings, the Swedes of Bethany College in Lindsborg Kansas, etc. Eliminating the Fighting Souix would further reduce the number of non-white groups that are honored in this manner.


42 posted on 06/12/2012 2:04:45 PM PDT by kathsua (A woman can do anything a man can do and have babies besides.)
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To: BitWielder1

The Liberals hate these names not only because of the stated reasons, but also because they are uncomfortable with martial values in any form.

They do not want to be reminded that the Sioux were incredibly brave fighters because then they would have to acknowledge the worth of their warrior culture, and by extension other warrior cultures, including the American military, which they despise in all it’s forms — and that definitely includes surrogate warfare like American football.

If the Libs win this battle, they will simply choose another target. Their ultimate goal is to eliminate the warrior ethos completely, which means eliminating all forms of ritualized conflict, right down to chess and checkers.


43 posted on 06/12/2012 4:15:33 PM PDT by Ronin (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life - Rep. L. Gohmert, Tex)
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To: cookcounty
Bismarck Creamy Big Bites

What the F* is that provincial dog crap. Name them the Bismack Iron Chancellors.

44 posted on 06/12/2012 4:20:47 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: cookcounty
Bismarck Creamy Big Bites

What kind of provincial crap is that. Name them the Bismarck Iron Chancellors.

45 posted on 06/12/2012 4:21:58 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Ohioan
...an attack on the actual diversity of peoples, pushed in the name of promoting "diversity.

Exactly. We are supposed to celebrate diversity by pretending it does not exist.

46 posted on 06/12/2012 4:39:08 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Vigilanteman
Nicknames that won't offend The Forum staff's tender sensibilities:

The Fighting Field Mice
The Fighting Hollyhocks
The Fighting Inchworms

47 posted on 06/12/2012 5:38:24 PM PDT by rhema ("Break the conventions; keep the commandments." -- G. K. Chesterton)
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To: Vigilanteman

I wonder if the PC monkeys in the NCAA would object if UND was called the North Dakota Fighting North Dakotans? How could they object to that? Is NDSU still called the Bison? I bet the PC slime bags looked at that, and just gave up trying to change that name.


48 posted on 06/12/2012 11:39:01 PM PDT by Mark17 (California, where English is a foreign language)
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To: Mark17
They should change their name to the "Fighting Dakota" and see if the NCAA is smart enough to figure out that they haven't changed anything.
49 posted on 06/13/2012 5:07:54 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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