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Bible-college studentís pocketknife spoils trip to New York City
The Columbus Dispatch ^ | June 12, 2012 | Jeb Phillips

Posted on 06/12/2012 12:56:31 PM PDT by KyGeezer

He has completed the community service, and he has paid the fine. Because of the way that Clayton Baltzer sees the world, he believes this must be part of God’s plan.

Still, the Grove City High School graduate now has a New York weapons charge on his record. Baltzer, 19, is a Bible-college student — a camping-ministry major — and took his pocketknife to New York City on a field trip. He did not know about New York’s strict knife laws. He now has some fame among knife-rights advocates because of what happened to him.

“I have never been in trouble before,” Baltzer said.

His fine-arts class at Baptist Bible College & Seminary in Clarks Summit, Pa., went to New York City on March 27. It was Baltzer’s first trip to the city. On the schedule: the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the World Trade Center site, Times Square and an opera at Lincoln Center.

Baltzer and his class were at the Times Square subway station when someone grabbed him by the arm and said, “ Don’t move.” It was a plainclothes New York City police officer.

(Excerpt) Read more at dispatch.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: knives; nyc
NYC sucks.
1 posted on 06/12/2012 12:56:39 PM PDT by KyGeezer
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To: KyGeezer

In 1976 my father took me to NYC as part of a Bicentennial trip. I remember walking around with him in an extremely seedy Times Square clutching a tiny pocket knife in my hand. Good thing I wasn’t busted then!


2 posted on 06/12/2012 1:02:45 PM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: KyGeezer

To paraphrase Samuel Johnson, if I owned New York City and Hell I would rent out the former and live in the latter.


3 posted on 06/12/2012 1:05:04 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: KyGeezer

Glad they got that crazy blade-carrying clinger under control. What a menace; NYC and Sarah Jessica Parker can now rest easy and will sleep better knowing they are protected from the likes of ‘him’...

X-treme/sarc


4 posted on 06/12/2012 1:05:11 PM PDT by homegroan (Veni, Vedi, Velcro and Ranting...since 1998)
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To: KyGeezer

A pocket knife is a tool.

Certainly it can be used as a weapon. So can a hammer, or a wrench.

I carry a knife with me all of the time, and have used it thousands of times opening packages, cutting lines , skinning electric connections, I would feel naked without it.

Funny thing is I could probably walk naked through New York with out a problem, but I cannot carry a knife.


5 posted on 06/12/2012 1:05:20 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: KyGeezer
NYC sucks.

Great place to visit and had lot's of fun in NYC but would not want to live there.

6 posted on 06/12/2012 1:05:20 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: KyGeezer

No mention of the length of the pocketknife blade. I’ve seen pocketknives with a 4 1/2” blade, and I’m carrying a Buck pocketknife with a 2 1/8” blade (I just measured it).

Now, any pocketknife can be lethal - but as a weapon my pocketknife is far less formidable than the 4” variety. Surely, there has to be SOME definition as to what is a utility knife and what is a weapon, doesn’t there?


7 posted on 06/12/2012 1:06:20 PM PDT by Hodar (Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.- A. Schopenhauer)
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To: KyGeezer

I see construction workers in NYC carrying knives with pocket clips every day


8 posted on 06/12/2012 1:06:35 PM PDT by culpeper (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny... TJ)
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To: KyGeezer

I was passing through NYC once with my friend XD-40. I was so nervous I must have looked very suspicious to all the cops at Penn Station. Or was that a dream?


9 posted on 06/12/2012 1:07:37 PM PDT by st.eqed
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To: trailhkr1

Feel the same about Boston. Loved visiting, the history and shops etc. But, no way I could live there even though I would love to if it weren’t for the politics/taxes/comparatively poor economy than West Texas.


10 posted on 06/12/2012 1:08:51 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: KyGeezer
Number one on the Boy Scouts of America "Ten Essentials" list is a pocketknife. See it at ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Outdoor_Essentials

11 posted on 06/12/2012 1:11:32 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: KyGeezer

NYC - the safest city in the US because of all the gun and knife laws. What kind of knife was it? Like a pen knife or a Bowie knife strapped to his leg? I bet you could tape a razor blade to a Popsicle stick and be okay.


12 posted on 06/12/2012 1:13:02 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Talent Without Ambition Is Sad - Ambition Without Talent Is Worse")
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To: KyGeezer

“NYC sucks.”

yes and not in that good Las Vegas way either.


13 posted on 06/12/2012 1:13:11 PM PDT by History Repeats (If Obama had a son, he'd have his picture hanging on the wall of the Post office wanted board.)
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To: Hodar
Now, any pocketknife can be lethal - but as a weapon my pocketknife is far less formidable than the 4” variety. Surely, there has to be SOME definition as to what is a utility knife and what is a weapon, doesn’t there?

I suspect the story is leaving out some information....maybe a Crocodile Dundee sort of knife?

I can't imagine them going after a small pocket knife.

14 posted on 06/12/2012 1:13:35 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: KyGeezer

I blame the cop - the kid looks like he just stepped out of the Book of Mormon. Toody and Muldoon going after boy scouts again?! The cop - on his way, no doubt, to his local Dunkin’ Donuts - couldn’t tell the kid to put the knife away?


15 posted on 06/12/2012 1:13:42 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: st.eqed

Nervous at Penn Station? What a wuss!


16 posted on 06/12/2012 1:15:05 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: KyGeezer

Goodness gracious. I have had a pocket knife in my pocket on a daily basis since I was in the 3rd or 4th grade. I feel lost without one. I have extras, just in case I misplace one of my two favorites.


17 posted on 06/12/2012 1:15:49 PM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It's time to take out the trash in DC.)
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To: KyGeezer

Used to be, there was the “spirit of the law” and the “line of the law”

Which one do you think this cop was enforcing.


18 posted on 06/12/2012 1:17:13 PM PDT by edcoil (It is not over until I win.)
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To: KyGeezer

Wait...WHAT? NYC has knife laws? I don’t go anywhere without at least 1 knife and usually more. Just sitting here now I have my Victorinox Fireman on my belt and a small double blade folder in my pocket. Usually at work I carry a folding razor knife for cutting paper.

I have carried a knife with me almost continually since grade school!

I really like Case for knoves and Victorinox for multi tools. A Victorinox Fireman lasts me about 6 months, then it’s worn out. Intend to start carrying one of their survival tools as well although the Fireman can do pretty much the same thing.

A few yearrs ago I had to check my Vicky before goung into a school picnic at a local amusement park. Haven’t been back since and don’t intend to go back.

Dittos now with NYC!

BTW I wish someone would make a multi tool similar to the Fireman but with lockers on screwdivers, saws and such.


19 posted on 06/12/2012 1:17:41 PM PDT by prisoner6 (Right Wing Nuts bolt the Constitution together as the loose screws of the Left fall out!)
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To: KyGeezer

They don’t think much of the rest of the Constitution either.


20 posted on 06/12/2012 1:17:59 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: KyGeezer

Used to be tempted to visit there, just for some its historic sites, but frankly, the way things have gone, from its liberal nanny-state insanity to the fag-marriage garbage, there’s just no well in hell I’m going to ever set foot in the depraved place.


21 posted on 06/12/2012 1:21:19 PM PDT by greene66
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To: KyGeezer
Are the cops so afraid of the real thugs they have to fill their quota by arresting schoolboys from out of town?
Or are they just incapable of distinguishing between serious and trivial problems, in typical liberal fashion?

22 posted on 06/12/2012 1:23:12 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: KyGeezer

Always carry a large folding non flick BUCK knife in NYC. Completely concealed.


23 posted on 06/12/2012 1:27:02 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info....http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: KyGeezer

Some knife laws are stupid because the legislators know nothing about knives or how to use them. Or the laws date back to when they were afraid of some greasy-haired “Armando Stiletto” hood.

In VA, I have a concealed carry permit for a handgun, but am still restricted as to what knives I can carry.


24 posted on 06/12/2012 1:30:44 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: Slings and Arrows

It was W.T. Sherman, not Dr. Johnson, talking about Texas.


25 posted on 06/12/2012 1:31:04 PM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Venturer

So stupid. I work with people who know about a dozen different ways to kill you with a paper clip.


26 posted on 06/12/2012 1:32:15 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter ( A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over...)
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To: KyGeezer

Was it a 5” Cold Steel locking Tanto blade? Or a 5” Gerber locking dagger-bladed Applegate-Fairbairn? Or a 1.25” Swiss Army pen knife?


27 posted on 06/12/2012 1:34:11 PM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: KyGeezer
He clips it on his pocket so that the clip is visible, but the knife isn’t.

I lived in NYC for decades, and I'm still in and out constantly, subways included, and often clip a one-hand-opening knife with about a 4" blade to my belt. No one has ever looked at me twice.

And such is the specialization of labor in NYC that I'll bet it's been 40 years since a white person has attacked someone with a knife there. I guess the NYPD needed some collars to show the limp-wristed mayor—who has other men carry the knives for him—that his latest program is a genuine crime-fighting measure. It goes nicely with his campaign against over-large sodas.

I followed the link and saw the kid's picture. The last time a mild, milk-skinned, bespectacled kid with a Midwestern accent was a threat to anyone in NYC was probably, um, never. As someone who has dealt with his share of New York louts, rowdies, and thugs, I can't imagine pulling that kid from the crowd or confiscating his toothpick, never mind charging him. The City of New York actually needs many more kids like that carrying knives.

28 posted on 06/12/2012 1:39:15 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: mgstarr

***I remember walking around with him in an extremely seedy Times Square***

Not any more! It is nice and clean with lots of life! I just got back from there three weeks ago and I had a GREAT time.

Of course I had to leave all my personal defense tools behind. That was the first time I felt safe in a big city, but was still on alert for anything out of the ordinary.


29 posted on 06/12/2012 1:40:34 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: KyGeezer

I wonder if assisted opening knives are exempt. I have been carrying a Kershaw Assisted opening knife for years. You have to push the release on the bottom of the blade. It will NOT open by flicking the wrist. It is only about 2 3/8” but I never leave the house without it. Also Have a 3.5’ Buck folding knife. The Kershaw is so much easier for us crips with bad appendages.


30 posted on 06/12/2012 1:46:15 PM PDT by halfright (FAST & FURIOUS! DON'T ALLOW THEM TO DIVERT YOUR ATTENTION.)
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To: KyGeezer
True, the cop should have shown some discretion and let the kid walk, but when bosses basically force you to go out and find arrests under the threat of retaliation it's tough.

In short, blame the brass, not the cops on the streets.

31 posted on 06/12/2012 1:48:24 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: KyGeezer

Just to get a bit pedantic for a moment ... if you have to flick it to open the blade, it’s not a “gravity knife”. You might call it a “momentum knife”, or a “flick knife” — but, unless the blade opens when you simply hold it a certain way, it’s not a “gravity knife”.

It would be interesting to see how the law is written. A strong enough “flick” could impart enough momentum to cause any blade to open — or at least any blade held in place by a spring, rather than a catch of some sort. It took the cops several tries to get the knife to open by “gravity” (flicking) — if I were the one charged, I’d have asked the judge to try to open it by “gravity”. Then I’d ask him to open it by pulling the blade out. If the judge had a hard time opening it with “gravity”, I’d ask him to rule that the knife was not a gravity knife.

Regardless of the ruling — the law is still asinine.


32 posted on 06/12/2012 1:52:39 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Oh absolutely. I’ve been there many times since Rudy cleaned it up. Fun to visit - if only the hotel rooms weren’t microscopic and just a tad pricey.


33 posted on 06/12/2012 1:53:04 PM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: Hodar

I got this thing from Pakistan ~ a regular old pig sticker even though they don’t do pig sticking. It folds up ~ about 8 inches long then. Can slaughter a sheep in seconds.


34 posted on 06/12/2012 1:55:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: miss marmelstein

About twenty five years ago I was in Central City, Colorado. We were visiting the town while camping in the area. I was walking down the street when a cop grabbed my shoulder while pulling my hunting knife from it’s belt sheath. Apparently it was illegal to open carry a knife in town.

The cop did use his discretion and just let me return it to my vehicle, but did warn me that the local judge would have fined me if I went before him.

Surprised the hell out of me; back home I had no trouble carrying a revolver down the street on my hip and into the bank.


35 posted on 06/12/2012 2:42:44 PM PDT by Second Amendment First ("Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..." - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: KyGeezer
This is a New York State Law, not a New York City law. New York State Law prohibits switchblades and gravity knives. The problem is that most cops, prosecutors, and judges are too stupid or don't care to know the difference between legal and illegal knives.

The problem is not with switch blades because they are defined by the spring mechanism that opens the blade. The problem is gravity knives, which are defined, by statute, as follows: “Gravity knife” means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device. (Penal Law §265.00(5))

A typical Boy Scout pocket knife, Swiss Army Knife, or similar type jack knife is not a gravity knife because the blade is opened from the handle, not by gravity or centrifugal force, but by prying the blade open using a fingernail and a grove in the side of a blade. Even the dumbest cop knows this is not a gravity knife. The problem is with pocket knives that have a thumb spur on the blade that is used to manually remove the blade from the handle often with the assistance of a flip of the wrist (centrifugal force) once the blade has been partially opened from the handle using the thumb spur. There are several court decisions that have already ruled that this type of knife is not a gravity knife because the blade is not released from the handle — and cannot be released from the handle — solely by use of gravity of centrifugal force and most importantly, the blade can be completely removed from the handle solely by use of the thumb spur.

I suspect the kid's knife has a thumb spur. When the cop was unable to open the bla solely by gravity or centrifugal force, he accidently on purpose used the thumb spur as he flipped his wrist to open the blade and then illegaly arrested the kid for possessing a legal knife. If he had the time and money to fight the charges, then he would have been convicted by some low-life, liberal hack, who calls herself a judge, who would have sentenced him to a year in jail (Riker's Island) if only because he had the nerve to stand up for his rights and reject the plea offer. A year or two down the road, an appellate court would have overturned his conviction at a cost of $30,000 to $40,000 or more in legal fees and expenses. Sure, he could sue the City and police officers for violating his civil rights and he would probably win big bucks, but in my opinion, a year or two in a NYC jail is not worth it when offered a plea baragin like he was offered.

36 posted on 06/12/2012 2:45:45 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: KyGeezer

I’ll bet the real reason the system, from the cop to the court, dumped on the kid was to “teach that bible thumping clinger a real lesson.”

I worked in Manhattan for a lotta years. Its funny how folks there reacted to me when they found out I was actually from PA and couldn’t wait to get out of the city every night.

Just a personal observation.


37 posted on 06/12/2012 2:48:36 PM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimze, my handle is a Hate Crime. Hope they don't like it.)
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To: KyGeezer
§ 265.00 Definitions. As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following terms shall mean and include: ... 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.

By this standard "flicking the knife open and locking into place" ANY lockback folder is effectively a "gravity" knife. I can open just about any folder by rotating the knife about its pivot pin, and stopping. The blade continues and locks open.

A list of gravity knives (among those I own):

  1. [Any] Spyderco lockback or liner lock
  2. [Any] Buck lockback or liner lock
  3. [Any] Benchmade lockback or liner lock
  4. [Any] Cold Steel lockback or liner lock
  5. [Any] Gerber lockback or liner lock
  6. [Any] KaBar lockback or liner lock
  7. [Any] Kershaw lockback or liner lock (w or w/o assist)
  8. [Any] SOG lockback or liner lock (w or w/o assist)

NYC liberal sesspool.

38 posted on 06/12/2012 2:54:41 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: Second Amendment First

If I understand the article correctly, the kid had his knife in his pocket but hooked on the outer flap so that the eagle-eyed (and obviously underemployed) cop saw it. The kid wasn’t fooling around with his knife. A smart cop could have said: Hey, kid, I’m confiscating your knife. I wonder if he had to make so many arrests that day. Honestly, it’s like an episode of Car 54.


39 posted on 06/12/2012 2:58:50 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: BitWielder1

A lot of our NY cops are fat and lazy (as well as incredibly short). I’m sorry to say that but it is true. You can’t get into a Dunkin’ Donuts because of the sea of blue. Of course, I think the article states that it was a plain clothes cop. And yes, I think, it was easier to arrest an eagle scout rather than some out-of-control homeless guy.


40 posted on 06/12/2012 3:09:07 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: KyGeezer

NY and Connecticut and New Jersey and Maryland and Massachusetts and all the rest of the liberal northeast.


41 posted on 06/12/2012 3:47:52 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: Venturer
Funny thing is I could probably walk naked through New York with out a problem, but I cannot carry a knife.

Try walking around in NYC naked with a knife. If you look artsy enough and tell them you work for the NYT no one will even notice.

42 posted on 06/12/2012 4:18:49 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (let establishment heads explode)
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To: USMCPOP

I was hoping I wouldn’t be the first to thank you for your son’s service. We all owe him a great debt. Please accept my sincere condolences to you and your family. I can’t imagine the pain of losing one of my three sons.

As long as a knife in VA doesn’t shoot the blade you’re OK. I’m fond of my big Kershaw assisted opening knife.

I’ve carried a variety of guns. My absolute favorite now is a Ruger LCP-CT which now sports an RTK trigger which incredibly turned the LCP into a different gun . It kicks like a mule because it’s so light. I love it because I hardly know it’s in the inside the pants holster.

An unsolicited suggestion...try Wipe-Out foam...no bore brushes are needed. And no further rust protection is needed after patches are run through the bore.


43 posted on 06/12/2012 5:03:20 PM PDT by KyGeezer
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To: USMCPOP

“In VA, I have a concealed carry permit for a handgun, but am still restricted as to what knives I can carry.”

Me too. Among those knives one cannot carry around are the Bowie knives.


44 posted on 06/12/2012 5:44:27 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: SkyDancer
It was a kinda cute movie.....but he'd be seriously busted in that same NYC today:


45 posted on 06/12/2012 6:41:52 PM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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