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Justified to kill: Why Detroit dominates the state's justifiable homicides
Mlive ^ | June 13, 2012 | Jonathan Oosting

Posted on 06/14/2012 4:46:34 AM PDT by cripplecreek

DETROIT, MI – In a city that just might be the nation’s justifiable homicide capital, Willie White was watching basketball when he heard the intruders return.


So, after he flipped off the television and grabbed his gun, the 75-year-old retiree took the last shot of the night.

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More at link.

(Excerpt) Read more at mlive.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; crime; guns; selfdefense
White had worried they might come back. They'd broken a gate to his backyard the night before, and thrown rocks through two different windows. He'd called police, but an officer told him it could be days before someone showed up to take a report.


Like many Detroit residents frustrated by the city’s dwindling police resources, White prepared himself for the worst.


He watched the game on mute as his sick wife slept in a second-floor bedroom above him. When he heard his side door being forced open, he grabbed the rifle he'd loaded with a single bullet hours earlier.


"When he came through the door to that top step, I let go with the shot," White said, two months after killing 18-year-old Bronco Mosley and scaring off at least two accomplices. "I didn't have very much of a choice. I was nervous, but I knew what I had to do."


White called 911 and, as Mosley lay in his doorway, waited for police to finally arrive.



Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy did not charge White, explaining he was well within his rights when he shot Mosley, who he later learned was armed.

1 posted on 06/14/2012 4:46:41 AM PDT by cripplecreek
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To: marktwain; Springman; sergeantdave; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; ...
Detroit, justifiable homicide capitol. (That's a good thing BTW)

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2 posted on 06/14/2012 4:50:11 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek

So, an armed perp broke in AT NIGHT with the TV light flickering. He knew someone was home at that time, and yet he still broke in. So his motivation was not just the acquisition of property, but something more sinister.

Good riddance, rest in hell.


3 posted on 06/14/2012 4:51:02 AM PDT by Darteaus94025
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To: cripplecreek

Black on black ok, white on black not ok, white hispanic on black definitley not ok


4 posted on 06/14/2012 4:51:11 AM PDT by ronnie raygun (B B)
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To: Darteaus94025
"People are sick and tired of being victims," Angelo said. "And it's time to fight back. They're not going to run scared anymore."

This is why I'm a lot more optimistic about Detroit than a lot of FReepers. Granted they've got a long way to go but taking responsibility for their own defense is a great first step.
5 posted on 06/14/2012 4:57:27 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek
Paging the usual suspects, will Rev. Jackson or Rev. Sharpton please pick up at the black courtesy phone? Perhaps they can do something about this black-on-black crime that 50 years of solid Democrat rule of Detroit has not been able to do.

Seriously, Detroit has never recovered from the 1967 riots and the subsequent annual Halloween arson 'celebrations' known as "Devil's Night". At some point, if not already, Detroit will serve as a case study in total urban disaster and government corruption!

6 posted on 06/14/2012 5:00:43 AM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence!)
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To: Darteaus94025
"So his motivation was not just the acquisition of property, but something more sinister."

Absolutely. Without a doubt. I've experienced it twice so far. Forced entry of a dwelling known to be occupied, and whose occupants are understood to be up and about, seldom ends well.
7 posted on 06/14/2012 5:02:12 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: cripplecreek
When he heard his side door being forced open, he grabbed the rifle he'd loaded with a single bullet hours earlier.........

In CA he would have had to prove there was a there was a threat of death or great bodily harm. Kicking in your door isn't always enough.

8 posted on 06/14/2012 5:04:06 AM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: cripplecreek
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Tigh Croff was sent to prison for two years for killing an intruder that he chased down and shot.

Like White, Croff had been victimized before. After his east side home was burglarized three times in a single week, Croff came home from his security guard job and found a group of men attempting another break-in.

But unlike White, Croff gave chase when the intruders fled. He eventually caught up to 53-year-old Herbert Silas and shot the unarmed man in the chest.

"I told him he was going to die, and I shot him," Croff told a detective. "I ain't no angel, but I ain't done nothing stupid."

9 posted on 06/14/2012 5:07:25 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek

Detroit looks worse than Tikrit, Iraq.

At least they are rebuilding Tikrit...


10 posted on 06/14/2012 5:38:11 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: umgud
“In CA he would have had to prove there was a there was a threat of death or great bodily harm. Kicking in your door isn't always enough.”

Maybe not by itself but it goes a long way.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/8/1/s197

CAL. PEN. CODE § 197 : California Code - Section 197
Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:

1.When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,

2.When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,

3.When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed; or,

4.When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.

11 posted on 06/14/2012 5:38:48 AM PDT by Polynikes (Hakkaa Palle)
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To: cripplecreek

Another killing of a black by a White. /s


12 posted on 06/14/2012 5:44:44 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: cripplecreek

I wonder if the dead intruder looked like zero’s hypothetical son?

I guess we’ll never know.


13 posted on 06/14/2012 6:11:29 AM PDT by cicero2k
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To: cicero2k

I can’t find any photos of Bronco Mosley but the story about Tigh Croff is interesting. What kind of a moron does one have to be to commit a robbery at 53 years old.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/was_detroit_man_justified_in_s.html

>>Police say Croff chased down two men, but one man — 53-year-old Herbert Silas — didn’t get away. Reportedly, Silas turned to Croff and asked, “What are you going to do? Shoot me?” and Croff responded with a bullet to his chest.<<


14 posted on 06/14/2012 6:17:19 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Larry Lucido

Is he a member of the Fightin’ Whities? LOL!


15 posted on 06/14/2012 6:27:08 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: SES1066
"Paging the usual suspects, will Rev. Jackson or Rev. Sharpton please pick up at the black courtesy phone?"

Black courtesy phone? That's racist! /s

16 posted on 06/14/2012 6:27:45 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: cripplecreek

An “Escape From Detroit” movie in the making?

How about a “Grand Theft Auto: Deadly Detroit” video game?
Subtitle: “John Q. Public fights back. This time it’s personal!”


17 posted on 06/14/2012 6:32:13 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: cripplecreek

He kinda looks like Bo Diddley or maybe his brother!


18 posted on 06/14/2012 6:34:21 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Holy Crap!

I done been shot by Ray Charles.


19 posted on 06/14/2012 6:36:51 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Mich Patriot
Black courtesy phone? That's racist! /s

And a WHITE courtesy phone would not be? Actually, I thought of that when I wrote my reply. An example of how "Political Correctness" can drive our thought patterns. Maybe I should have said plaid (no that is too scottish), gold (no that is too plutocratic), pink (you guess), red (too political), maroon (sounds too moron-ish), brown (just kidding) ... The possibilities cover the spectrum, don't they!

20 posted on 06/14/2012 6:56:52 AM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence!)
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To: SES1066

...but, but, but now you’ve mentioned so many colors that it’s almost like a RAINBOW! Holy crap, you know what that means! LOL


21 posted on 06/14/2012 7:17:58 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: cripplecreek

I suspect that there lots folks who “need killin’” in Detroit.
God bless and protect those brave enough to defend themselves, their families and their homes.


22 posted on 06/14/2012 7:22:08 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: ronnie raygun
Black on black ok, white on black not ok, white hispanic on black definitely not ok...

Jesse and Sham-ton aren't going to waste time on black on black crime - no guilty whites to shake-down - no 'wall to wall' media coverage...

23 posted on 06/14/2012 7:24:30 AM PDT by GOPJ (Take your little hammer, little sickle and your scary red signs with a fist on it, and go home...)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Detroit looks worse than Tikrit, Iraq.

"Take him to Detroit!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDDYQlmq0w

24 posted on 06/14/2012 8:47:04 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: Darteaus94025

“if you’re found here at night, you’ll be found here in the morning”


25 posted on 06/14/2012 10:53:10 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: cripplecreek

Seems the only mistake Mr White made was in not having his weapon fully loaded.


26 posted on 06/14/2012 12:36:18 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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To: RobinOfKingston

Tigh Croff did pretty good too, considering the fact that he chased the guy down, had a conversation with him and then killed him.

The judge only gave him two years and wrote an opinion complaining that the law didn’t make exceptions for cases like his.


27 posted on 06/14/2012 1:11:07 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Yo-Yo
"No nooo...not Detroit !!!!"

Hilarious movie...going to watch that again tonight.
28 posted on 06/15/2012 3:59:22 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: cripplecreek
I thought reporting on black-on-black crimes was racist!

But yeah, bottom line is with an 82.5% black population, all that black-on-black crime in Detroit really IS the reason for all those justifiable shootings.

Oh, look, somebody saw the 800 pound gorilla in the room! Look away, look away!

29 posted on 06/15/2012 7:25:45 AM PDT by Kenton
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To: Kenton

I blame it on Democrats.

Blacks didn’t live much different than whites before the democrats convinced them that they needed a different culture and that it needed to be restored through handouts.

Tigh Croff had little choice but to kill other than quitting his job and behaving like his neighbors. Seems that every time he went to work his house was broken into. I don’t blame him for chasing the thief down and killing him any more than I blame a rancher for hunting a predator killing his herd.


30 posted on 06/15/2012 7:42:23 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Polynikes

Thanks for posting this.

#1 and #3 are critical along with, “When he/she/it broke into my home, the last thing I remember was he/she/it saying they were going to kill my family and me!”


31 posted on 06/15/2012 2:10:43 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS DESTROYING AMERICA-LOOK AT WHAT IT DID TO THE WHITE HOUSE!)
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To: cripplecreek
I blame it on Democrats. Blacks didn’t live much different than whites before the democrats convinced them that they needed a different culture and that it needed to be restored through handouts.

Agree 100%. Mr Croff was a victim, but because he was black, and because the perp was black this story won't get much press coverage. And because there are so many black criminals in Detroit, it's easier to make the case for legitimate self defense.

32 posted on 06/16/2012 8:03:23 AM PDT by Kenton
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To: cripplecreek
This is why I'm a lot more optimistic about Detroit than a lot of FReepers. Granted they've got a long way to go but taking responsibility for their own defense is a great first step.

I wouldn't call myself "optimistic" about Detroit. But I have often iterated, if Detroit gets bad enough, there could very well occur a contagious outbreak of "Conservismitosis Majorous" that would not only save Detroit and help Michigan but rock the very foundation of the Democratic Party.

I fantasize about Detroit swinging hard right with a large majority of minorities expressing disdain for the years of liberal punishment they have endured. A Republican Detroit? It is a fantasy. I hope for the best but Detroit has been looted and plundered by the liberal machine and the Union thugs for so long.... short of starting over....I don't know. We'll see.

33 posted on 07/23/2012 10:27:34 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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To: umgud
In CA he would have had to prove there was a there was a threat of death or great bodily harm. Kicking in your door isn't always enough.

That's a shame. But I would rather have to try and explain it in court than have a bunch of politicians and beauracrats consider laws that would have saved my life after the fact.

34 posted on 07/23/2012 10:30:30 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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To: cripplecreek
Police say Croff chased down two men, but one man — 53-year-old Herbert Silas — didn’t get away. Reportedly, Silas turned to Croff and asked, “What are you going to do? Shoot me?” and Croff responded with a bullet to his chest.

I did a little reading on that case too. That is a tough one. I can see why he was charged and convicted. By law his actions were criminal. I would like to know more about the defense he put up in court. It sounds like, with the right attorney, it could have been a landmark case in pre-emptive self defense. He had been victimised many times (presumably by the same perps). If he could prove that he was reasonably sure it was the same guys that kept threatening him and that there was no expectation that anything would change (LEOs not able to do anything), then I logically decide that the only way to protect himself in the future was to apprehend or kill the perp(s) himself for the police. And apprehend Vs. kill may be the issue at the end of a chase. I do not know the specific details of how the footchase ended beyond a lethal shot to the chest.

35 posted on 07/23/2012 10:37:58 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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To: Tenacious 1
I did a little reading on that case too. That is a tough one. I can see why he was charged and convicted. By law his actions were criminal.

Had I been on the jury I would have refused to convict but I don't know whether this ever went to jury.

In my opinion the perps posed an ongoing threat to his home and livelihood. After all he couldn't go to work without the pack of hyenas moving in for the kill.
36 posted on 07/23/2012 10:48:19 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Tenacious 1

BTW from what I’ve read, the perp chose to taunt Croff at the end of the chase.


37 posted on 07/23/2012 10:50:00 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek
In my opinion the perps posed an ongoing threat to his home and livelihood. After all he couldn't go to work without the pack of hyenas moving in for the kill.

I agree with what he did (however, taunting by itself is not justification for homicide). Instead, I would argue he was defending himself pre-emptively from being attacked again tomorrow or the next day.

It's like the idiot who keeps rebuilding his house next to a river that floods every 5 years. There is no proof of when the next flood will come. But the insurance company can tell you that history suggests it will happen again and you will eventually lose your house. They are justified in refusing to insure his house. This guy could prove there was a reasonable expectation that he'd be victimized again.

His defense of "self defense" starts when the perps start running away (sounds odd).

38 posted on 07/23/2012 11:05:23 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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