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Magna Carta
Boston College ^ | June 15, 1215 | Various

Posted on 06/14/2012 6:50:10 AM PDT by ZULU

John, by the grace of God, king of England, lord of Ireland, duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and count of Anjou, to the archbishop, bishops, abbots, earls, barons, justiciaries, foresters, sheriffs, stewards, servants, and to all his bailiffs and liege subjects, greetings. Know that, having regard to God and for the salvation of our soul, and those of all our ancestors and heirs, and unto the honor of God and the advancement of his holy Church and for the rectifying of our realm, we have granted as underwritten by advice of our venerable fathers, Stephen, archbishop of Canterbury, primate of all England and cardinal of the holy Roman Church, Henry, archbishop of Dublin, William of London, Peter of Winchester, Jocelyn of Bath and Glastonbury, Hugh of Lincoln, Walter of Worcester, William of Coventry, Benedict of Rochester, bishops; of Master Pandulf, subdeacon and member of the household of our lord the Pope, of brother Aymeric (master of the Knights of the Temple in England), and of the illustrious men William Marshal, earl of Pembroke, William, earl of Salisbury, William, earl of Warenne, William, earl of Arundel, Alan of Galloway (constable of Scotland), Waren Fitz Gerold, Peter Fitz Herbert, Hubert De Burgh (seneschal of Poitou), Hugh de Neville, Matthew Fitz Herbert, Thomas Basset, Alan Basset, Philip d'Aubigny, Robert of Roppesley, John Marshal, John Fitz Hugh, and others, our liegemen.

(Excerpt) Read more at bc.edu ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: consitution; magancarta
Today is the eve of the day King John was compelled to sign the Magna Carta.

I try to post this every year at this date.

Not all our rights came from Magna Carta, but it was one of the key elements in the evolution of liberty in the English World, an evolution of many centuries whose end product is our Constitution. A LENGTHY and PAINFUL evolution which goes far towards explaning the FAILURE of other nations to achieve anything like what our Founding Fathers achieved. They stood on the shoulders of giants - giants lacking in other cultures.

Pardon my Anglophilia.

1 posted on 06/14/2012 6:50:14 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: ZULU

I am also an Anglophile, but I fail to see the significance in this document. Edward I, Edward III, Henry V, Henry VIII, Mary, and Elizabeth ruled with more power over their subjects than did Alfred, Stephen, or any of the Saxon/Dane kings in between. The only thing the Magna Carta tells me is that John was a weak and unpopular king that put his weakness in writing to save his head. Never understood the Magna Carta hype.


2 posted on 06/14/2012 7:05:56 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: ZULU
The Magna Carta was an almost unprecedented document. It is even more remarkable by the fact it was signed by King John, one of the Worst Monarchs ever to sit on the throne.

http://www.skyscanner.net/news/union.jack.heart.JPG

Also never be afraid of your Anglophilia, it's hard to resist.

3 posted on 06/14/2012 7:06:16 AM PDT by KC_Lion (I am finished with listening to empty promises of the great GOP saving me in 4 more years.)
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To: ZULU

A very powerful document outlining some basic liberties in a kingdom that was, no doubt, wrought with corruption and crime. I read this every year when you post it, Zulu. Thank you again for your Anglophilia.


4 posted on 06/14/2012 7:09:27 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: ZULU

Thanks for the article. Some of the signers are in my family tree.
We need the worst ruler in America’s history to sign something like that.


5 posted on 06/14/2012 7:12:19 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: wolfman23601

The Magna Carta wasn’t considered important until fairly recently in history. Shakespeare’s play about King John doesn’t even mention it.


6 posted on 06/14/2012 7:16:26 AM PDT by Borges
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To: ZULU

Giants indeed. What a glorious century that was.

Thanks for posting this.


7 posted on 06/14/2012 7:24:22 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: ZULU

The abridged version begins, “To whom it may concern...”


8 posted on 06/14/2012 7:24:38 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: ZULU

1. In the first place we have granted to God, and by this our present charter confirmed for us and our heirs forever that the English Church shall be free, and shall have her rights entire, and her liberties inviolate; and we will that it be thus observed; which is apparent from this that the freedom of elections, which is reckoned most important and very essential to the English Church, we, of our pure and unconstrained will, did grant, and did by our charter confirm and did obtain the ratification of the same from our lord, Pope Innocent III, before the quarrel arose between us and our barons: and this we will observe, and our will is that it be observed in good faith by our heirs forever. We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom, for us and our heirs forever, all the underwritten liberties, to be had and held by them and their heirs, of us and our heirs forever.


9 posted on 06/14/2012 7:32:30 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: wolfman23601

Gee Whiz!! I think it was very significant regardless of what the post Magna Carta rulers did as to ‘power’.

It was the embryonic spark of liberty and the concept that the ruler governed by consent of those he ruled.


10 posted on 06/14/2012 7:32:59 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: mountainlion

“We need the worst ruler in America’s history to sign something like that.”

We should start with this one!


11 posted on 06/14/2012 7:34:43 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: wolfman23601
The "Big Deal" about the Magna Carta was that it officially put limits on the King's power.

Furthermore, it proclaimed that freemen (non-serfs) could not be punished except through the law.

FWIW - John was my 21st GGF three different ways and my 22nd GGF a fourth way.

While he may have been a weak king but he had a truly exceptional mother, Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

12 posted on 06/14/2012 7:36:30 AM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: wolfman23601

Magna Carta was part of abegining in the evolution of political thinking in England.

They almost got it right when they beheaded Charles I, but made the mistake of replacing him with Cromwell. But the sons and grandsons and great grandsons of that experiment tried it again here in 1776 and got it right.


13 posted on 06/14/2012 7:38:06 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: Borges

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Are you.....................FRENCH??????


14 posted on 06/14/2012 7:39:04 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: ZULU
I join with you in your Anglophilia.

Just the story of this "Great Charter" is fascinating in itself as a prologue to repetition in history. An overweaning ruler over-extends and is forced to permit his opposition to restrain him. Later he repudiates the restrictions but the effort ultimately fails with his death.

This Magna Carta came into existence as an expedient document full of compromise to assuage the current conflict. That it still speaks to us today as the first restraint to absolute power 797 years later is one of the glories of our history!

Happy 237th Birthday to the US Army and Flag Day for the Star Spangled Banner!

15 posted on 06/14/2012 7:39:04 AM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence!)
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To: SES1066

Thanks for your support and I agree with you TOTALLY.


16 posted on 06/14/2012 7:40:58 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: LonePalm
FWIW - John was my 21st GGF three different ways and my 22nd GGF a fourth way.

Hey cousin! He's my 20th GGF... through the DeMontagu line.

17 posted on 06/14/2012 7:57:33 AM PDT by So Cal Rocket (Task 1: Accomplished, Task 2: Hold them Accountable!)
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To: wolfman23601
Never understood the Magna Carta hype.

1. Our Declaration of Inedpendence, in its introductory clauses, which set froth the compact theory of Government, and the right to rise against a Government that violates the purposes for which it was created, reflects how important Magna Carta was conceptually to those who founded America.

2. It clarified property & inheritance rights in a Feudal era, where everything had been determined from the top down, previously. It also granted & protected marketing rights.

3. It not only recognized the right of people to rise against the Government, it set up a mechanism for their doing so. (This was left out of subsequent republications, but I note that the one posted, here, has the mechanism, in place.)

4. The concepts of Government & liberty in Magna Carta are the direct opposite of the dogma being promoted by the Left in the West since World War I--and in some circles since the French Revolution. It is, like our Declaration, a very Conservative document; a rallying of those who would defend what they had achieved against encroaching central power.

William Flax [Truth Based Logic]

18 posted on 06/14/2012 8:22:29 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: ZULU
They stood on the shoulders of giants - giants lacking in other cultures.

But but but... Bill Maher said there's nothing exceptional about American culture.

19 posted on 06/14/2012 8:25:40 AM PDT by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: KC_Lion; ZULU

I join with you both in my admiration of Old England.

The current incarnation of Londonistan, not so much.


20 posted on 06/14/2012 8:33:20 AM PDT by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
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To: Teacher317

Yes, he and that idiot in the White House and their supporters.


21 posted on 06/14/2012 8:33:58 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: ZULU

From another Anglophile, I’ve seen original copies in Lincoln Castle and Salisbury cathedral. I believe there is one in British Museum in London. The year 1215 is significant to me as 1066.


22 posted on 06/14/2012 8:51:37 AM PDT by strongbow
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To: Ohioan

Big whoops, the Charter of Liberties predated it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Liberties


23 posted on 06/14/2012 8:58:15 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: ZULU
BTTT

The Magna Carta - I remember going to the British Library to get a glimpse of it on my trek through Europe. Ah, the luxury of being a student is grand.

King John was a short sighted, nasty little ruler taxing those damned rich people. Unfortunately for King John, those damned rich people, The Nobles, rose up and made that very nasty little ruler sign that bothersome document, the Magna Carta. King John is very similar to the Not So Bright President we have in office now. It is worth noting that nasty little rulers motivate We the People to do great things over time.

24 posted on 06/14/2012 9:10:03 AM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: wolfman23601

Many things preceded Magna Carta. That does not diminish its significance. You can be fairly sure that most of those who gathered in the summer of 1776 would have agreed as to its significance.


25 posted on 06/14/2012 9:21:10 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: ZULU
Anglophile as in Zulu Time as in GMT?

Half of me was in the West Longitude while the other half was in the East Longitude.

We went to Greenwich to and visit the Cutty Sark as well. I think the Cutty Sark was badly damaged by a fire a few years back.

26 posted on 06/14/2012 9:24:44 AM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: strongbow
Battle of Hastings and William the Conqueror - when England became England.
27 posted on 06/14/2012 9:28:08 AM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: Chgogal

Unfortunately, due to technilogical advancement, We the People probably have less power than King John’s subjects. We can no longer assemble a rebellion and storm the castle with swords and shields (or even muskets) and be up against the same. In those days, the ruler better darn well at least have some consent of the people or he’d lose his head rather quickly. It is a good thing 1776 wasn’t 100 years later.


28 posted on 06/14/2012 9:39:23 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: ZULU

I read a fine history of the Magna Carta a few years ago.

One thing that stuck out to me is that they celebrated by drinking locally made wine from a local vineyard.

Wine....in England?

Learned that that was the Medieval Warm Period. The one that destroys the Global Warming “Hockey Stick”.


29 posted on 06/14/2012 9:59:05 AM PDT by eddie willers
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To: eddie willers

It was probably a mead wine, else imported from France... the nobility would have had the money.


30 posted on 06/14/2012 10:01:35 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: wolfman23601
Hear Yee, Hear Yee! November 2012 is coming and the TEA Party is rising. ; )
31 posted on 06/14/2012 10:04:59 AM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: wolfman23601
It was probably a mead wine, else imported from France... the nobility would have had the money.

No. If that were the case nothing would have crossed my mind.

It was very specifically English wine.

32 posted on 06/14/2012 10:23:28 AM PDT by eddie willers
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To: ZULU
Pardon my Anglophilia.

Don't apologize. from near the time I was old enough to consider such things seriously I have been of the opinion that, when trouble comes calling, you can have no better ally than those of the English speaking world.

It remains true today, even with the mold we see accumulating on the surface.

33 posted on 06/14/2012 11:23:22 AM PDT by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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To: strongbow

Me also.

Keep the faith.

I wish I could get over there to see it.


34 posted on 06/14/2012 12:01:15 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: Chgogal

I love that!!!!


35 posted on 06/14/2012 12:02:25 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: Chgogal

I remember reading about the Cutty Sark. But the H.M.S. Victory, the H.M.S. Warrior (first iron clad battleship) and another ship with a French name I can’t remember are still there.


36 posted on 06/14/2012 12:04:40 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: eddie willers; wolfman23601

LOVE Mead!!!! Great stuff. But then I loev Honey too.


37 posted on 06/14/2012 12:06:42 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: RobinOfKingston

Anglophones need to remeber and stick together.


38 posted on 06/14/2012 12:08:12 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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