Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Fast and Furious a program that went south
yumasun.com ^ | 17 June, 2012 | John Vaughn

Posted on 06/18/2012 5:47:12 AM PDT by marktwain

I see Attorney General Eric Holder is getting grilled again by Congress about Fast and Furious, the operation in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms stood by as straw purchasers illegally bought guns in Arizona for Mexican drug traffickers.

Apart from legal and political issues surrounding Fast and Furious, I wish someone would explain to me why this was supposed to be a good idea in the first place.

I could see ATF trying catch to straw purchasers in the act of buying. But having let the buyers walk away from the gun shops, what did the agency expect to achieve, if and when the guns got into traffickers' hands in Mexico — where ATF has no authority?

One of the guns turned up at the scene of the killing of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. Even without Fast and Furious, the traffickers Terry faced would have been armed.

That said, Fast and Furious was a plan that went south, in more ways than one.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2deadfeds; 300deadmexicans; atf; banglist; brianterry; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; ice; jaimezapata; murdergate; obama; terry; zapata
At least some news is leaking out into the MSM.
1 posted on 06/18/2012 5:47:16 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: MestaMachine

Gunwalker / Murdergate ping.

While the trafficers might well have still been armed, it might not have been with the help and sanction of the U.S. Government.


2 posted on 06/18/2012 5:49:26 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
I'm no expert, but I thought the plan was this:

Take American-made guns and give them to really bad people.
Stand by while the really bad people did really bad things with American-made guns.
Introduce US legislation to punish American gun manufacturers and diminish the right to keep and bear arms.

The plan "went south" when people found out about it. Up until that point, it was working as designed.

3 posted on 06/18/2012 5:51:34 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (On the subject of illegal immigrants: It's a case of Us against Them -- and Obama is one of Them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

F&F wasn’t a Plan it was a Conspiratorial, Criminal, Traitorous Scheme.


4 posted on 06/18/2012 5:54:10 AM PDT by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Fast and Furious was never ‘north’ to begin with.


5 posted on 06/18/2012 5:59:31 AM PDT by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Fast and Furious a program that went south caught Obama and Holder with their pants down.
6 posted on 06/18/2012 5:59:40 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Romney - not Obama - not a Conservative - not a real Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

And as Obama said it was under the radar. Clearly criminal but nobody gets punished.


7 posted on 06/18/2012 6:01:36 AM PDT by satan (Plumbing new depths of worthlessness on a daily basis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

The intent was to manufacture evidence to advance the government’s anti-gun narrative that US gun sellers were responsible for Mexican gun violence.


8 posted on 06/18/2012 6:07:30 AM PDT by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
Read no further, ClearCase_guy has the answer:

I'm no expert, but I thought the plan was this:

Take American-made guns and give them to really bad people. Stand by while the really bad people did really bad things with American-made guns.

Introduce US legislation to punish American gun manufacturers and diminish the right to keep and bear arms.

The plan "went south" when people found out about it. Up until that point, it was working as designed.

9 posted on 06/18/2012 6:08:20 AM PDT by InterceptPoint (TIN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: dirtboy; marktwain
Fast and Furious was never ‘north’ to begin with.

This begs the question of ... the hundreds of millions of 40cal ammo (the boys and girls in D.C. purchased with tax dollars), and where did that ammo go?

11 posted on 06/18/2012 6:13:19 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
The ATF may be trying something differant.
12 posted on 06/18/2012 6:27:57 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Name any government program that hasn’t “gone south”......


13 posted on 06/18/2012 6:30:41 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy

Fast and Furious went so far south that it passed McMurdo Base...

F&F went so far south that it’s zip code is the south pole.


14 posted on 06/18/2012 6:33:01 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bmwcyle

Sad part is that position so natural to the Presidents favorite special interest group is now accepted by too many Americans.That this Administration commits criminal acts is only a symptom of the disease destroying America today.What else can one expect of our firstanti-American President ever.


15 posted on 06/18/2012 6:43:59 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Perhaps, as the author digs deeper into the issue, he’ll discover that F&F was a deliberate attack on the second ammendment that includes cover-ups, hits on whistleblowers and the murder of hundreds of Mexican citizens.

It stinks from the top down, is bigger than Watergate, and the author thinks that it is “a program that went south”


16 posted on 06/18/2012 7:05:41 AM PDT by kidd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

Exactly.


17 posted on 06/18/2012 7:08:11 AM PDT by Eagles6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

Brian Terry truly gave his life in the service of his country .... without his death, not so sure F & F would ever have been exposed and the American people would be one step closer to being disarmed. This was a MAJOR & nefarious plot to disarm America ... the lies, deceit, corruption, moral bankruptcy, and sheer gall of the Left to even try this points out clearly that we truly do have to stand up and fight the ‘enemy within’.


18 posted on 06/18/2012 7:08:25 AM PDT by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

The Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is an agency designed by the feds to bring fear to the citizens of this country.

They obviously have not been getting as much attention as they like, so enter fast and furious which back fired.

If an ex criminal commits a crime the question is always ask, why was he running loose to begin with?

The same question should be ask here, why does the American people put up with these Government hoodlums, why are they not disposed of?

Why should freedom loving Americans have to pay multi millions of dollars a year to an organization whose sole purpose is to take these freedoms away.


19 posted on 06/18/2012 7:08:52 AM PDT by ravenwolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Has anyone mentioned the possibility that cartel money was being funneled to the highest government levels in DC?


20 posted on 06/18/2012 7:17:07 AM PDT by RiverDrifter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: InterceptPoint

>>The plan “went south” when people found out about it. Up until that point, it was working as designed.<<

Exactly right.

What I find frustrating is that it’s extremely easy to make the case you make whether it’s true or not, yet we’ve not been able to aggressively make that case.

The Left fabricates fictions about the Right out of whole cloth on a continuous basis, and the MSM consistently goes along with them and spreads the propaganda line.

But here we have a nearly clearcut case of a government agency, possibly (probably?) going all the way to the top of the Justice Department, and maybe even to the President himself, attempting to subvert the 2nd Amendment, and getting people killed in the process, and we can’t get traction for the story.

Why can the Left make similar stuff up and get traction, whereas the Right can’t do so even with plenty of evidence at hand? Granted, the MSM isn’t a megaphone for the Right, but with alternative media, the MSM is losing its grip.

What I think is that the Republican leadership in Congress is still too timid, and is letting Issa and others twist in the wind unless and until they come up with absolutely ironclad evidence. But by the time they get it, the Dems will be able to use the “old news”...nothing new here...argument, and coast on through the scandal yet again.

We don’t need to convict anyone for Fast and Furious. We need to convince the majority of gun owners that the intent of Fast and Furious was to take away their guns. For that, we need publicity, not lawyers. And for publicity we need real leaders willing to take the fight public. The goal should be at least one Drudge headline every 2 or 3 days, so that the average gun owners, many of whom vote Democrat, learn what this administration tried to do to them.


21 posted on 06/18/2012 7:26:07 AM PDT by Norseman (Defund the Left-Completely!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Even without Fast and Furious, the traffickers Terry faced would have been armed.

I suppose the author is right that they would have been armed anyway but it's interesting that two of the guns they had were from F&F and another one was from a Texas gun shop from another Project Gunrunner op out of a Texas ATF office. They weren't "traffickers" though they were a "rip crew." Murderous armed thieves there to steal from actual traffickers. With help.

There is reason to believe that Agent Terry's BORTAC team knew nothing about the rip crew and the rip crew knew nothing in advance about Agent Terry's team.

FBI Criminal Informant Complicit in Brian Terry’s Death (PJM Exclusive)

Previously, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s death in Peck Canyon, Arizona was described as a chance meeting that led to a firefight: an illegal alien “rip crew” working for the Sinaloa cartel was hoping to find other illegal aliens and to rob them at gunpoint. Instead, they stumbled across a Border Patrol unit and murdered Agent Terry.

Last week, the Washington Times offered a new version of the encounter: they reported that the rip crew was not hunting illegals, but Border Patrol teams — with the intention of engaging them in combat.

Sources now tell PJ Media that neither version of events is accurate: the rip crew was not waiting for a chance encounter with other illegals, nor did the members intend to engage American law enforcement agents.

The rip crew was in Peck Canyon that evening with the intention of stealing money and drugs from a specific shipment of which they had prior knowledge.

(snip)

The rip crew knew to be in Peck Canyon that December evening because a CI working for the FBI found out about a smuggling run — from the FBI.

(snip)

A source tells PJM that the FBI knew from wiretaps that the CI was using their information to set up an ambush. The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) — through its own CIs and communications intercepts — was also aware of the planned assault. Neither the DEA nor FBI warned Border Patrol about the expected criminal activity.

(snip)

Multiple sources tell PJM that this third weapon “disappeared” because it was the weapon carried by the FBI CI who ran the rip crew. When it was recovered near the scene of the murder and subsequently traced by the ATF, it traced back to the FBI CI via the gun shop in Texas where it was purchased.

(snip)

Neither agency bothered to warn Border Patrol to keep their BORTAC teams out of Peck Canyon that evening. As a direct result of this FBI and DEA failure — combined with Homeland Security forcing BORTAC units to carry less-lethal beanbag rounds in some of their primary weapons — Brian Terry’s under-armed four-man unit walked into an ambush against a heavily armed rip crew, at least five of whom were carrying rifles.

Brian Terry’s murder was entirely preventable. The incompetence of the DEA and FBI let his Border Patrol unit walk into an ambush. After the ambush, it appears the FBI tampered with evidence to cover up that one of their informants was involved with the murder of a federal agent.


22 posted on 06/18/2012 7:41:28 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Ice Agent Jaime Zapata Murdered While Investigating Fast and Furious Weapons

ICE Agent Jaime Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, were ambushed at a fake roadblock in Mexico. Were they set up? If so by whom?

23 posted on 06/18/2012 7:44:50 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: GraceG
F&F went so far south that it’s zip code is the south pole.

That'd be 96598.

24 posted on 06/18/2012 8:05:08 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
"I'm no expert, but I thought the plan was this:

Take American-made guns and give them to really bad people.
Stand by while the really bad people did really bad things with American-made guns.
Introduce US legislation to punish American gun manufacturers and diminish the right to keep and bear arms.

The plan "went south" when people found out about it. Up until that point, it was working as designed."

Bingo.  It couldn't go South from North because it was never intended to benefit the American public to begin with.  Fast and Furious was never intended to fight crime, it WAS crime from it's conception.  INTENTIONAL crime.  An attempt to sink American Constitutional rights.

 

25 posted on 06/18/2012 8:35:55 AM PDT by CaptainKrunch (Freedom is what's fair.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: MissMagnolia
the American people would be ARE one step closer to being disarmed

Imho we are one vote in the SC away from seeing the 2nd removed. The 5-4 decision (think it was last year) imho said the 2nd's removal could happen at any time. Wishing it weren't so, yet knowing time is short where Americans will be asked and then told to lay down their arms and the 2nd is removed. All am saying is it has to happen for those (in power) to gain absolute control over Americans. When it will happen is up for discussion. Since it will happen (imho arms removed and the 2nd) is not up for discussion, just when, regrettably. All on the same page know why. Control ... Control ... Control. If those in power cannot regain their control as the situation worsens, one can be certain there is a backup plan and if that fails there are backup plans to backup plans (imho). Regrettably (and imho) there are no backup plans by We the People who will have to survive those who are now in power when the time comes for those in power to come for the American people's God given right of self defense.

26 posted on 06/18/2012 8:55:12 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: no-to-illegals
Regrettably (and imho) there are no backup plans by We the People .....

I think back to the way this country was started ... with 'regular' folks banding together & fighting the British from behind stone walls and trees. Hopefully, there still lurks in the hearts of some Americans, the 'fire of liberty' that will flame up and cause us to fight back against those who would "control" us. I see a spark in the way the Tea Party came about ... not giving up hope yet, but folks are going to have to be willing to sacrifice life, fortune & sacred honor again on and for home turf .... something that hasn't happened since the Revolutionary War.

27 posted on 06/18/2012 9:04:13 AM PDT by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: MissMagnolia

I believe your post is on target. You and I just made another one of those lists kept on computer activity (imho). Am too old to make a difference on this end of the computer. The young are headed for terrible times. I’ll last (once they come for the 2nd) about two weeks (maybe three). May we WIN, and may Liberty and Truth WIN.


28 posted on 06/18/2012 9:17:03 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: marktwain; Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; ...

“Apart from legal and political issues surrounding Fast and Furious, I wish someone would explain to me why this was supposed to be a good idea in the first place.”

This just flabbergasts me. After all this, this “journalist” needs to buy a clue.
Where has he been for the past two years? And he’s writing in Arizona, for G-d’s sake.


29 posted on 06/18/2012 9:45:36 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MestaMachine
“Apart from legal and political issues surrounding Fast and Furious, I wish someone would explain to me why this was supposed to be a good idea in the first place.”

Dem handlers are not giving the press this story... the only thing the MSM knows is that it's 'no big deal'. The old days of some reporter sitting around sucking his thumb and thinking about an issue are O-VAR - 'doting court eunuchs' of the MSM have failed to notice what they've become...( the PR unit of the Democrat Party)

30 posted on 06/18/2012 10:07:27 AM PDT by GOPJ (The 'doting court eunuchs' of the MSM fail to notice...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: MestaMachine

“Where has he been for the past two years?”

JOHN VAUGHN, BAJO EL SOL EDITOR, is baby-stepping up from articles like these:

Owl burrowed into aircraft
Yuma native and Algodones dentist had many passions in life
There’s always a backstory to tax articles
Somerton mayor might be jumping gun on recyling savings

http://www.yumasun.com/reporter-profile/byjohn-vaughn-bajoelsoleditor-498


31 posted on 06/18/2012 10:58:43 AM PDT by thouworm (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson