Posted on 06/19/2012 4:51:24 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet
Commentators on both the right and left and both secular and religious note with disdain that Mormons (Latter Day Saints, as Mormons refer to themselves) have irrational practices and beliefs. The former, we are told, includes the wearing of sacred undergarments and the latter includes posthumous baptisms and the claims by the prophet of Mormonism to have found and deciphered engraved golden plates in New York State.
I read and hear these dismissals of Mormonism with some amusement — because everyone who makes these charges holds beliefs and/or practices that outsiders consider just as irrational.
(Excerpt) Read more at frontpagemag.com ...
RARELY HAS THE WARNING TO GET RID OF THE BEAM IN YOUR OWN EYE IN ORDER TO SEE THE SPECK IN YOUR FRIEND’S EYE BEEN AS APPLICABLE AS IT IS TO THOSE WHO TODAY MOCK MORMONISM FOR IRRATIONALITY.
We would do a lot better to judge Mormonism — and, for that matter, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the left — by their fruits. And if we do, the religion of the Republican presidential candidate looks pretty good.
Full disclosure: As a Catholic, I know little about Mormonism which Mittens practices, but I know quite a bit about Islam/Sharia, which though Dear Leader may not be a practicing Muslim, he has constantly aided, abetted, defended, protected and SUPPORTED, the practitioners of this vile, eeeeevil, cult to the point of recruiting and appointing several members-supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood in his Administration who are working to “DESTROY OUR MISERABLE HOUSE FROM WITHIN,” and replace our Constitution with Sharia.
AND while social issues (Abortion, Gay Marriage, Amnesty, etc.) ARE important, the SURVIVAL of our Republic TRUMPS ALL….!
WHEN anyone can provide DOCUMENTED evidence that Mitt’s actions, deeds, and words are anywhere as dangerous and a threat to our Republic as are Obama’s then maybe you can convince me to stay home…..
Until then…….!!!
The LDS church is positive proof that most people do not give a rat’s rear end about theology. The church is not ABOUT theology, it functions mainly as a support group for middle class people trying to raise children, often in numbers greater than 1.8, and also as a very necessary bulwark against the power of the federal government in a part of the nation in which BLM owns 80% of the land area. In the eight year reign of terror known as the KKKlinton era, I only ever saw two groups of people ever try to stand up to the beast and face it down and that was Slobodan Milosevic and the Serbs, and the Mormons in Utah.
Try telling that to some of the FRpers who are so against Romney. They would have a fit.
Bravo!
Oh, I'm sure and they will show up any time to dispute no doubt Prager's (and mine) assertions.
Their HATRED for Romney (and irrational fear of Mormons) lead them to claim they are standing on "PRINCIPLE" dontchaknow? and they would as soon see Dear Leader reelected and his continued effort to HARM if not DESTROY our Republic than do whatever is necessary to insure his defeat.
WHEN any of these Freepers can show where Mormons have World-wide Supremacist intentions; practice "honor killings;" subscribe to the death penalty for insulting Joseph Smith or the LDS or "apostasy" etc. and want to replace our Constitution with Sharia, then I'll listen.
Amen...
I can NOT emphasize enough that ALL take the time to watch this series or at least, bookmark and when time permits, take the course.
I'm betting that those who keep disparaging Mittens and Mormons and encouraging all to sit out the Presidential elections have NOT viewed this or I doubt they would hold the opinions they continue to espouse.
SEE: The Muslim Brotherhood in America
About the Course: Excerpts:
"Have you ever asked yourself why, despite more than ten years of efforts –involving, among other things, the loss of thousands of lives in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, well-over a trillion dollars spent, countless man-years wasted waiting in airport security lines and endless efforts to ensure that no offense is given to seemingly permanently aggrieved Muslim activists – are we no closer to victory in the so-called “war on terror” than we were on 9/11?
Thankfully, we have been able to kill some dangerous bad guys. The sad truth of the matter is that, by almost any other measure, the prospect of victory is becoming more remote by the day. And no one seems able to explain the reason.
In an effort to provide the missing answer, on April 24, the Center for Security Policy is making available via the Internet a new, free ten-part video course called “The Muslim Brotherhood in America: The Enemy Within.” This course connects the proverbial dots, drawing on a wealth of publicly available data and first-hand accounts to present a picture that has, for over a decade, been obscured, denied and suppressed:
America faces in addition to the threat of violent jihad another, even more toxic danger – a stealthy and pre-violent form of warfare aimed at destroying our constitutional form of democratic government and free society. The Muslim Brotherhood is the prime-mover behind this seditious campaign, which it calls “civilization jihad.”
“most people do not [care] about theology”
You are absolutely correct. Having worked for a Christian organization, I can tell you that most of their seminary students and graduates did not know much about the Bible, nor were able to take a definitive stand on the most basic subjects.
It’s a sign of the times we are in.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+2:1&version=KJV
Besides, Romney is a shoe in here. Because of that Hatch will also most likely be reelected. The Democrat Scott Howell is actually more conservative than either Romney or Hatch.
For the time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine but will surround themselves with teachers who will fill their itching ears with what they want to hear.
The seminaries are infested with humanists these days,
and humanists’ epistemology is that all knowledge comes from human reason, and therefore will reject the bible as the definitive Word of God.
True to a large extent. All churches and synagogues are also support groups....Mormons more so it seems
Could not agree more with Prager.
Personally speaking, I find the Roman Catholic theological doctrine of “real presence” just as silly and just as irrational as the Mormons’ fondness for special underwear or their belief in Planet Kolob.
In fact, it seems to me that the Catholics come very close to endorsing a form of cannibalism. But no matter. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but silly or irrational words from RC theology don’t harm me.
Therefore, as far as I’m concerned, what it comes down to is this:
Do I love, honor and respect my Catholic brethren? You betcha. As much as is humanly possible!
Moreover, would I be extremely pleased to support a conservative POTUS candidate who happened to be RC? In a nano-second! And ditto for a conservative Mormon.
Bump... Good one.
All religions look weird from the outside is a simple way to put it.
You are very correct in you assessment of the culture. I am very proud of my own heritage in the culture. I no longer believe the dogma, but they are a very determined people.
“WHEN anyone can provide DOCUMENTED evidence that Mitt’s actions, deeds, and words are anywhere as dangerous and a threat to our Republic as are Obama’s then maybe you can convince me to stay home…..
Until then…….!!! “
That puts it in perspective. Good statement.
1 Cor 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
“and therefore will reject the bible as the definitive Word of God”
Yes, that is the very heart of what is drilled into their heads from the seminaries, by what I could tell.
I attended the organized church meetings on site and not once, not once in over 2 years did I ever hear a preaching out of the Word of God. Never a direct Scripture quote out of a Bible. Not once.
Bump
It like that old Billy Joel song --- "It's all rock n roll to me"
To be fair to the Mormons, their founding religious events occurred less than 200 years ago, not 3000 years ago. So Mormon events are subjects of accurate historical records, thus very difficult to build up an hocus-pocus mystique about
“Moreover, would I be extremely pleased to support a conservative POTUS candidate who happened to be RC? In a nano-second! And ditto for a conservative Mormon.”
I think this is what it comes down to in the end. As President, who are you going to put your trust in for the future, not only for your country but also your family.
You have to make that choice based upon your understanding and trust of each persons character. True religious beliefs tell a lot about a persons inner character.
On election day that religious character will be given a choice. Where will the true conservatives line up?
This post might get you zotted but it is definite that it will bring out the nutters who come with long, colorful posts and fall to encouraged sarcasm.
Thanks for being so brave. I have to read it later as I am off to ANOTHER week of my daughter’s Driver’s ed.
LDS is the ‘in’ thing ping!
Baptize your dead LOL
“So Mormon events are subjects of accurate historical records”
You might want to revise that (no offense intend as I consider you a longtime FRiend on FR). There is absolutely no archaeological nor document evidence for it. None.
There are over 5,000 documents for the New Testament, starting around 100 A.D.
For the BoM, other than itself there are not 5,000.
There are not 500.
There are not 50.
There are not 5.
There are 0.
Absolutely 0 Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic documents for anything in the BoM other than that stolen from a KJV Bible.
Zero. Zip. Nada.
Nor will any serious non-Mormon take on the subject of “Reformed Egyptian” and the discredited “Book of Abraham”.
I hate to use Wiki but for speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham
“The Book of Abraham papyri were thought lost in the 1871 Great Chicago Fire. However, in 1966 several fragments of the papyri were found in the archives of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, and in the LDS Church archives. They are now referred to as the Joseph Smith Papyri. Upon examination by professional Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists, the papyri were found to bear no resemblance to Joseph Smith’s interpretation, and were common Egyptian funerary texts, dating to about the first century BC. As a result, the Book of Abraham has been the source of significant controversy, with Mormon apologists offering a variety of explanations as to the reason for the differences.”
Great picture......love southern Utah....
I know nothing about Scott Howell. This is the first I have even heard his name. I do know, though, that with a D after his name, he will vote for Harry Reid for Senate leader (or Nancy Pelosi, if he's running for the House). This makes your opinion of his conservatism irrelevant. He deserves to be defeated. We cannot compromise with Democrats. They must be defeated.
s/b “Nor will any serious non-Mormon Egyptologist validate Joseph Smith’s “Book of Abraham” P.T. Barnum sideshow, other than to discredit it.”
I would mention the Kinderhook Plates, but, oops I already did.
“So Mormon events are subjects of accurate historical records”
What I meant was that Mormon events are too recent so can be debunked or ridiculed by non-Mormon historical accounts and records
Nope
apophasis...
In a perfect world those points would have helped strengthen one’s beliefs in the culture had any of it been true. I grew up never questioning any of the unknown things mentioned. I left the church at age 19 in spirit but continued participating. (family etc.)
Now fifty years later the dogma has been shed for thirty five years and I am a free spirit.
Cannot do anything about Romney being elected.
Yeah I thought after rereading that might have been what you meant.
I’m still waiting for someone to show me the 230,000+ skeletons on Cumorah Hill, New York from 385 A.D.
This is the “event” that makes the Golden Plates happen where a dead man (Moroni) becomes an “angel” (Biblically impossible). This is the event by which Joseph Smith finds the Golden Plates and seer stones and translates them into the BoM.
A complete fairytale.
That being said, Mormons and RLDS have been my friends for decades and are by and large, very decent people. Romney is a Massachusetts liberal but yes, I think Obama is much worse. These are separate issues besides whether Joseph Smith was a false prophet, as he clearly was.
I fear Obama and co. have already destroyed this fine country.
Scott has Harry Reid at arms length and wants nothing to do with him. Next time I speak with one of his people I will ask that direct question.
I agree with your points, however Utah democrats are a different beast.
I think the liberals in (name your religion) are a bigger threat than (name someone else’s religion).
Joking a bit here but I would much rather live under a Mormon cabal running the USG than a Muslim friendly Marxist cabal
Any such Mormon cabal would not be in office forever and best case scenario would undo a lot of Obama's damage and set America on a rightward course. Mormons love America. Quite the opposite of the Obama cabal.
Joseph Smith being a false prophet has done one billionth of the damage the false prophet Muhammad has. Mormons no longer fight battles against other Americans except maybe in business but that is called capitalism. While the followers of false prophet Mohammed are still in Jihad mode same as in the 7th century
Joseph Smith lived recently so any Mormon claims about him are subject to debunking and laughter via non-Mormon historical material. Too bad it's not that easy to un-brainwash the followers of Muhammad. I have a feeling Mitt Romney is not a super religious Mormon.
That Mitt is somewhat religious but that his church is a social and business networking place for him and his family of five sons and his wife
Very good commentary from you. That is about how I feel
From the REAL papyrus of Abraham ...Verses 1-5
http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html
(I/1) [”Osiris, the god’s father], prophet of Amon-Re, King of the Gods, prophet of Min who slaughters his enemies, prophet of Khonsu, the [one who exercises] authority in Thebes,
(I/2) [. . .] . . . Hor, the justified, son of the similarly titled overseer of secrets and purifier of the god, Osorwer, the justified, born by the [housewife and sistrum-player of ]
(I/3) [Amon]-Re, Taikhibit, the justified! May your ba-spirit live among them, and may you be buried on the west [of Thebes].”
(I/4) [”O Anubis(?),51 . . .] justification(?).
(I/5) [May you give to him] a good and splendid burial on the west of Thebes as on the mountains of Ma[nu](?).”
[Osiris shall be towed in]to the great lake of Khonsu,
and likewise [the Osiris Hor, the justified,] born of Taikhibit, the justified,
after his two arms have been [placed] at his heart, while
the Breathing Document, being what
is written on its interior and exterior, shall be wrapped in royal linen and placed (under) his left arm in the midst of his heart. The remainder of his
wrapping shall be made over it. As for the one for whom this book is made,
he thus breathes like the ba-spirit[s] of the gods, forever and ever.
So it has come to this, just as I predicted. In order to shore up the obviously recent and silly claims of Mormonism, we must attack Christianity.
Why am I not surprised?
Then why don't you start a thread about Islam since you know so much about it and leave the Mormonism discussions to those who have more knowledge in the area? Every time you try to hijack a Mormonism thread by suggesting that we must talk about Islam, svcw reminds you that if you want a thread about a topic, start it. Have you ever followed that sound advice and started a thread about the abuses of Islam? Lots of material if want to take on the task.
Wonderful job of mindreading in post #5. You might want to review the forum rules.
The basic problem with Dennis Prager's column is that Mormonism has to defend lots of the ground of traditional Christianity while defending the unique positions of Mormonism where the irrationality really kicks in. What Prager's piece does is take a broad swipe at religion in general to defend Mormonism.
BTW, I'm willing to stand before my Lord and Savior when charged with hypocrisy by Mormon apologists.
Textbook example of poisoning the well.
When you get back from your daughter's driver's education course, may be you'll be ready to discuss some issues, instead of throwing around insults.
‘Joseph Smith or the sword!’ (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 167)
**Just a suggestion, I might serve you well to actually know about mormonism before you defend it.
The Mormon problem is its total rejection of the One True God and of Jesus Christ as His Only Begotten Son.
Mormonism is morally relativistic, claiming that each planet inhabited by sentient beings has its own God, a former Mormon. Thiis is not simply irrational. It is obscene.
Romney is, by his own religious beliefs, morally opportunistic. His ambition, according to his own belief system, is to achieve sufficient approbation on this earth to deem him worthy of Godhood after his earthly demise. Hence, he needs to become President in order to fulfill his religious ambitions.
With Romney we are saddled with a man who has no moral proportions. He is a Judas, willing to bend to whatever wind blows most favorably for himself.
With Obama we have a demon, committed to the destruction of western civilization.
Which is preferable? I say neither. In the end I would prefer to go to war against demons than to struggle with a pretender who can not be depended upon to stand for what is right.
>>When you get back from your daughter’s driver’s education course, may be you’ll be ready to discuss some issues, instead of throwing around insults. <<
No need to feel insulted, unless you find yourself to be a nutter who cut and pastes long, colorful posts and fall to encouraged sarcasm.
Is that you?
I want to live in a Judeo/Christian country where the men know that before God, men and women are equal.
I am thankful and enjoy my safety in America where honorable men protect women from Sharia Law and Mormon theology.
Though it may seem irrational to the outside observer, at least the Real Presence is a perfectly scriptural doctrine taught by Christ:
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:54-60
Though it may seem irrational to the outside observer, at least the Real Presence is a perfectly scriptural doctrine taught by Christ:
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:54-60
So that which you don't know is better than that which you do? The leap of logic that would take is suicidal.
Ignorance is not a virtue.
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