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A Pointless Partisan Fight
NYT Editorial ^ | 6-20-2012 | Editorial

Posted on 06/21/2012 4:54:00 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot

The Republicans shamelessly turned what should be a routine matter into a pointless constitutional confrontation. And the White House responded as most administrations do at some point: it invoked executive privilege to make a political problem go away.

(snip) Executive privilege cannot and should not be allowed to shield the executive branch from regular, valuable Congressional oversight. There was no reason the House committee and the Justice Department could not work out a deal to produce the documents requested, or some form of them. Instead, they show again that every issue, large or small, can be turned into ammunition for political combat.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2deadfeds; 300deadmexicans; atf; banglist; brianterry; cultureofcorruption; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; ice; issa; jaimezapata; mediabias; mediamalpractice; murdergate; obama; obamascandals; terry; zapata
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READ the whole thing. I only highlighted the essence of the opinion.

As if Rep Issa had not issued one deadline after another for the past 1 (2?) years. Folks, no bias here.

1 posted on 06/21/2012 4:54:04 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot
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And their readers responses are to be expepcted -

Guns kill.

“We desperately need stronger laws, regulations and oversight of the sale, distribution and use of firearms. - DrE”


2 posted on 06/21/2012 4:58:58 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Sir Napsalot

Why does this paper continue to call itself a news agancy.

It is nothing more than a propaganda arm for Obama.

Any self-respecting journalist would be ashamed to admit they work there.


3 posted on 06/21/2012 4:59:15 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Sir Napsalot
democRAT/communist new-speak -—
A Pointless Partisan Fight = 1 dead Boarder Patrol agent and hundreds of other US citizens, nothing to see here move along
4 posted on 06/21/2012 4:59:26 AM PDT by pietraynor (Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Venturer

At least the PRAVDA reporters were under fear of gulags and death.

MSM gives up the right to a free press willingly for ideology. Anything that serves The Party...


5 posted on 06/21/2012 5:03:06 AM PDT by TigerClaws (He)
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To: Sir Napsalot

In other words, the NYT is upset that the Administration has done something that the NYT cannot, with intellectual honesty, defend.


6 posted on 06/21/2012 5:06:34 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; ...

You will absolutely LOVE this!


7 posted on 06/21/2012 5:07:15 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: pietraynor

The New York Times is no longer a great newspaper but has fallen to the news quality of the worst tabloid. Their release of numerous articles revealing National security secrets over the years has done great harm to the country and our safety but for the Times sensationalism and ratings are more important than National security.
They should be investigated for Treason as should the leakers.


8 posted on 06/21/2012 5:08:39 AM PDT by paguch
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To: Sir Napsalot
So even through executive privilege was wrong... the Republicans made them do it...
9 posted on 06/21/2012 5:09:24 AM PDT by 11th Commandment (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: Sir Napsalot
Yes. If Holder had just complied with the original request when issued, this would not be playing out in an election year. The ONLY good thing about this, and all the other dramas from ‘no drama Obama’, is the glaring bias of Big Media. The majority of the public now FINALLY sees the hard core Leftist agenda of Big Media.
10 posted on 06/21/2012 5:09:37 AM PDT by originalbuckeye
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To: Sir Napsalot

More insane repsonses -

To neutralize DoJ and prevent Dem voters in Nov election

Rep Issa is well known in CA as an extremist

........


11 posted on 06/21/2012 5:09:59 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Sir Napsalot
The Republicans shamelessly turned what should be a routine matter into a pointless constitutional confrontation.

Hmmm. Border Patrol Agent Terry, dead. ICE Agent Zapata, dead. 300+ Mexican citizens, dead. And it is a "routine matter"? What a POS article. The cover-up continues. But it is TIME that Eric "the Red" Holder was in Jail and Obozo with him.

12 posted on 06/21/2012 5:13:34 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: TigerClaws

This is not a partisan subject at all.

WTF is wrong with the Democrats?

This is about an administration plan that got people killed.


13 posted on 06/21/2012 5:20:03 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Sir Napsalot

What? No barf alert?

The article does demonstrate how you can twist an issue any way you want it. That is why it is really important to get many people’s take on this.

A popular argument is to simply say that this was Bush’s program to begin with, so what’s the big deal. First, not only is that akin to blaming Henry Ford Sr. for problems with the Pinto, but it ignores things like this:


From here: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens..._bush_is_a_lie

The key to [Democrats’] strategy is conflating two very different programs: Operation Fast & Furious and a Bush era ATF initiative known as “Operation Wide Receiver.” In the questions from Judiciary Committee Democrats (principally, Senators Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer — there may have been others but, again, I didn’t see the entire hearing), it emerged that Wide Receiver began in 2006, when Alberto Gonzales was the Bush administration attorney general...Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic. Basically, the agents know the bad guys have negotiated a deal to acquire some commodity that is either illegal itself (e.g., heroin, child porn) or illegal for them to have/use (e.g., guns, corporate secrets). The agents allow the transfer to happen under circumstances where they are in control — i.e., they are on the scene conducting surveillance of the transfer, and sometimes even participating undercover in the transfer. As soon as the transfer takes place, they can descend on the suspects, make arrests, and seize the commodity in question — all of which makes for powerful evidence of guilt. Senator Schumer’s drawing of an equivalence between “tracing” in a controlled-delivery situation and “tracing” in Fast & Furious is laughable. In a controlled delivery firearms case, guns are traced in the sense that agents closely and physically follow them — they don’t just note the serial numbers or other identifying markers. The agents are thus able to trace the precise path of the guns from, say, American dealers to straw purchasers to Mexican buyers.

To the contrary, Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales. The straw purchasers were not followed by close physical surveillance; they were freely permitted to bulk transfer the guns to, among others, Mexican drug gangs and other violent criminals — with no agents on hand to swoop in, make arrests, and grab the firearms. The inevitable result of this was that the guns have been used (and will continue to be used) in many crimes, including the murder of Brian Terry, a U.S. border patrol agent. In sum, the Fast & Furious idea of “trace” is that, after violent crimes occur in Mexico, we can trace any guns the Mexican police are lucky enough to seize back to the sales to U.S. straw purchasers … who should never have been allowed to transfer them (or even buy them) in the first place. That is not law enforcement; that is abetting a criminal rampage.


14 posted on 06/21/2012 5:23:07 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Sir Napsalot
Guns kill. “We desperately need stronger laws, regulations and oversight of the sale, distribution and use of firearms. - DrE”

And our response should be: Then join us in condemning this program that provided thousands of firearms to the most brutal criminals in North America!

15 posted on 06/21/2012 5:26:33 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: cuban leaf

The US collaborated with a cartel to get information on other cartels.

Did the guns go to the cartel we back?

Or was it just dump American guns in Mexico to justify abridging 2nd Amendment rights here?


16 posted on 06/21/2012 5:26:56 AM PDT by TigerClaws (He)
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To: Sir Napsalot

But we have elites like Krauthammer say ing the MM will have to cover this issue.MM is worse than PRAVDA.


17 posted on 06/21/2012 5:32:39 AM PDT by ardara
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To: cuban leaf
>>> What? No barf alert?

Sorry, I thought it was ‘automatic’, ‘redundant’, and ‘pointless’ to issue barf alert.

To your other point, we need MORE concise argument to combat the “Bush Started It” talking points currently favored by the Left. Esp. consider regular public who have never been told F&F.

It is our job to make the argument more effective.

18 posted on 06/21/2012 5:34:47 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: TigerClaws

Seems that there was another gun running operation involving the same cartels and guns going to Chicago.


19 posted on 06/21/2012 5:36:20 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: ardara

I thought I heard Dr. Krauthamme caution Boehner to make too much political hay out of the Executive Previlige business on the panel, it will turn public away.


20 posted on 06/21/2012 5:38:39 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Sir Napsalot
The NYTs actually has the gall to mention the murder of BP Agent Brian Terry in an article titled "A Pointless Partisan Fight." Heartless, soulless bass turds!

2 dead Federal agents!

300+ dead Mexican citizens, police officers and Federal agents!!

State-sponsored terrorism done by the U.S. Federal government in Mexico and Honduras!!!

------------------------------------------------------

ICE Agent Jaime Zapata was also killed with a gun from Project Gunrunner.

ICE agent's family files wrongful death claim against Justice Dept.

While the weapons found at the Zapata murder scene were not from among the Fast and Furious guns, this revelation is profoundly significant, because it directly contradicts sworn testimony by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

“I have no information to that effect, no. I don’t know one way or the other,” she replied to a direct question on any Fast and Furious connection by Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas.

Word games. Here's the little trick Napolitano, Holder and ATF are playing. F&F was an ATF operation run out of the Tucson AZ office. But some guns were walked out of Texas gun shops which puts them in the jurisdiction of Texas ATF offices so those ops must have had other names. So far I have not seen any reporting on what those op names were.

Armored SUV could not protect U.S. agents in Mexico

U.S. investigators recovered one of the military-style semi-automatic weapons used in the attack that killed Zapata.

The gun came from Texas.

Ballistic testing of spent shell casings and the raising of an obliterated serial number revealed the weapon was a popular Romanian-made AK-47 knockoff purchased at J&J’s Pawn Shop in Beaumont, smuggled south to the Zetas by a methamphetamine trafficker named Manuel Gomez Barba, a U.S. citizen.

BP Agent Brian Terry was not the only Federal agent killed by guns allowed to walk by the ATF-DoJ.

ICE Agent Jaime Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, were ambushed at a fake roadblock in Mexico. Were they set up? If so by whom?


21 posted on 06/21/2012 5:46:50 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Sir Napsalot

It’s only “pointless” when you’re losing, as evidence by your reluctance to report on the matter over the last 18 months!


22 posted on 06/21/2012 5:50:04 AM PDT by G Larry (There's no hope of a safe landing when you hire a suicidal pilot!)
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To: paguch

You are quite correct. But the ONE thing the SLIMES have consistently accomplished is to make my TAGLINE one of the MOST fitting on our forum.
That said, I truly, for the sake of our country, wish they would do something to inspire me to change MY views (of them).


23 posted on 06/21/2012 5:53:54 AM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf ( NY Times: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: Sir Napsalot
There was no reason the House committee and the Justice Department could not work out a deal to produce the documents requested

Uh, OK. What about the fact that the Dems were simply stonewalling and not interested in working out a deal?

24 posted on 06/21/2012 5:58:04 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: Sir Napsalot

The NYT is no longer interested in informing the general public. They serve the purpose of providing the constant affirmation that is required for their readers to maintain their belief in a demonstrably failed ideology.


25 posted on 06/21/2012 6:12:49 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: wayoverontheright

NYT just paroting the party line now. No immediate comments yesterday signal they were waiting for the central committee to let the idiot fellow travelers know what to post.

Now if CBS continues to run with the ball and Fox continue, we could have a nice circus. Of course with the “journalists” these days who were fed in school how to frame issues, there is little chance the hard core left, aka most of the MSM, will investigate this illegal operation and coverup....much worse than Watergage because no one died in Watergate and we did not involve the US in a nation’s sovereighty either.

All we need now is a defeat of Obamacare in the SC, and the carney barker in charge may just go ape. We need to keep up the pressure, this guy is incendiary and his narcicism is fueled by his racial and jellous nature.

Cannot wait for the perp walk out of 1600 Penn.


26 posted on 06/21/2012 6:34:22 AM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Sir Napsalot

IMO, it’s hard to be ‘partisan’ when neither party is on your side.


27 posted on 06/21/2012 6:44:35 AM PDT by wolfcreek (A closed eye mentality is the reason for our current reality)
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To: Sir Napsalot; Venturer; pietraynor; TigerClaws; Perdogg; MestaMachine; paguch; 11th Commandment; ...
Read the comments at the NYT!

Yes, most people are ignorant about the background of F&F. But this is not a polite debate that we can educate them and then win.

This is, for lack of a non-Alexjonesianism, an "Info War."

They are counter-attacking with a big gun of confusion. "Tu quoque, Bush started it! More gun laws would save us!"

Our natural reflex is to try to educate them on the difference between "attempts to track" under Bush and "intent to disburse" under Obama. True though it is, it would by a Pyhrric victory to win that WRONG debate. We must defend the 2nd amend and the Constitution, not Bush who was only a marginal friend to conservatism anyway.

Better: "Yes. Indeed. While it was halted temporarily under Bush and now hidden under Obama, both instances are proof that the ATF is rogue and uncontrollable not only under a R, but obviously also under a D now."

We need to neuter the ATF so that they can't play party to anti-constitutional schemes in the future under R's or D's.

Attack the belly and roll-up Holder and Obama in the process.

However, I think there are lots of people even on FR who would disagree with me here, and don't mind having a paramilitary anti-gunner "Iron Law" driven bureaucracy whose only goal is to curtail the Bill of Rights in order to gain funding. Erik Latranyi, for example, keeps trying to educate me that Wide Receiver was wholesome as apple pie, and F&F was satan's own program.

They were concocted by and run within the same unelected bureaus that brought us Ruby Ridge and Waco! The administrations are not the root problem!!!!

28 posted on 06/21/2012 8:19:48 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Sir Napsalot

no barf alert?


29 posted on 06/21/2012 8:20:20 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (25 and conservative. I guess I have no heart, Oh, well, makes shooting the bad guys easier.)
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To: sam_paine

I went to school on that post. Thank you!

I think your strategy is dead on.


30 posted on 06/21/2012 8:22:22 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: sam_paine; Erik Latranyi
Erik Latranyi, for example, keeps trying to educate me that Wide Receiver was wholesome as apple pie, and F&F was satan's own program.

In comparison that analogy would hold.

The Department of Justice ’ s Operation Fast and Furious: Accounts of ATF Agents

(above) Four ATF field agents testify under oath that they "never even heard of intentionally letting guns "walk" before F&F."

‘Wide Receiver’ CI: ‘It had nothing to do with Bush or even DOJ’

New Documents Highlight Differences in Bush-Era, Obama-Era Gunrunner Investigations

Operation Wide Receiver vs. Operation Fast and Furious

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

I don't think many, if any, FReepers are thinking that knocking down the Wide Receiver straw man is the main offensive. Exposing and circulating direct evidence of malfeasance, misconduct and criminal acts is the meat of it. But it doesn't hurt to expose spin for what it is either.

31 posted on 06/21/2012 8:29:56 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye; Erik Latranyi
Exposing and circulating direct evidence of malfeasance, misconduct and criminal acts is the meat of it. But it doesn't hurt to expose spin for what it is either.

Meat of what? Lock up Holder and Obama both, and then what? What "Fast-and-Ruby-Ridge-Furious-Waco" operation will the gun-grabber FBI/ATF bureaucrats think up next under President Biden, Romney or Gawd Forbid Hillary???

"Exposing and circulating?" ABC leads with Heat Wave.

Sam Donaldson is singing the chorus about racism. They're going to report on it, just as soon as they can figure out how they want the BIG LIE to sound.

It's like Eisenhower demanding that Goebbels honestly broadcast on the horrors of the concentration camps.

32 posted on 06/21/2012 8:42:32 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Venturer
Any self-respecting journalist would be ashamed to admit they work there.

There ain't no such thing

99.99% that graduate with degrees in journalism communication whether political or sports are brainwashed left wing fools who can't think for themselves
33 posted on 06/21/2012 8:43:25 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: sam_paine

“They were concocted by and run within the same unelected bureaus that brought us Ruby Ridge and Waco!”

Only partially. The clinton administration wholeheartedly wanted exactly the same kind of gun control as this one does and did its damnedest to bring it about.

All of the cases you cited, including F&F, involved premeditated murder to achieve a political end.

F&F goes much deeper and far wider than either Ruby Ridge or Waco in that citizens of another country were the targets, along with our own guys.

This is beyond a criminal conspiracy and it must be resolved.


34 posted on 06/21/2012 8:44:56 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: cuban leaf; TigersEye; Erik Latranyi; MestaMachine
Thanks! So think about what's going on in the hyper-politically correct halls of the ATF and FBI and DoJ RIGHT NOW.

Pournelle's Iron Law correctly says that in any organization, there are two kinds of careers. One, dedicated to the goals of the organization (truth, justice, american way, etc) and the second, dedicated primarily to expanding and growing the organization.

In all cases, the second type end up in the positions of power.

Ok, so there are the agents who became whistleblowers...there are some obviously some who are of the first kind. Maybe even the majority (we hope.) But there are obviously a hell of a lot of the second type too. And those people are going to be just as happy as you and me to see a fast conclusion to all this so they can continue building their ratsnest of power.

Mesta: The clinton administration wholeheartedly wanted exactly the same kind of gun control as this one does and did its damnedest to bring it about.

Ok, TRUE! Exactly true!

So the TRUE enemy is lurking in the halls of the government just waiting for opportunities in any administration to expand their power at the expense of A.., T...., or F...... The root problems are the Iron Law bureaucrats who enable people like Holder and Obama (and Reno/Clinton), and are janus-faced to anyone else.

Why are we so gaddang eager to get Holder's scalp and leave these low level scum in the real seats of power just waiting to pounce?

35 posted on 06/21/2012 8:58:57 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: cuban leaf; mickie
Thanks, Cuban Leaf, for your very carefully-written, understandable and informative post # 14 on the important difference between the gun "stings" of the Bush and Obama administrations.

I now can lucidly explain things to others...which I couldn't do before!

Vive le difference!

Leni

36 posted on 06/21/2012 9:00:16 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: sam_paine
Sam Donaldson is singing the chorus about racism. They're going to report on it, just as soon as they can figure out how they want the BIG LIE to sound.

So, your answer is to make the MSM do what you want them to do? lol

37 posted on 06/21/2012 9:01:53 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: sam_paine
Why are we so gaddang eager to get Holder's scalp and leave these low level scum in the real seats of power just waiting to pounce?

Who is?

38 posted on 06/21/2012 9:04:01 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: MestaMachine
I don't know how media can not treat this as much bigger than Watergate. “Scandal” is such inadequate word.

Think on it, Holder, Napolitano, HClinton, and Treasury cabinet heads must have been brought in from the beginning for such a project. And four cabinet heads could not have met without the Top Guy unaware.

What ELSE are they capable of? That is what a lot of us would like to know.

The Left trying to make it “Political Theater As Usual” and their peons’ acceptance of it make my blood boil.

39 posted on 06/21/2012 9:07:21 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

“There was no reason the House committee and the Justice Department could not work out a deal to produce the documents requested”

This is an outright lie. What holder ‘offered’ was an ORAL briefing with NO documents in exchange for an end to Issa’s investigation. There was NO offer to negotiate turning over documents.


40 posted on 06/21/2012 9:19:44 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: TigersEye; MestaMachine
So, your answer is to make the MSM do what you want them to do? lol

That is indeed laughable! Which is why I responded to your "Exposing and circulating direct evidence of malfeasance, misconduct and criminal acts is the meat of it."

Not only have those who care to know been saturated, but the MSM is about to crush those educated numbers by spreading nonsense and confusion.

Even if we get Holder in prison garb before the election, Pelosi is already rolling out the "they went after Holder so he can't enforce voting rights act so Republicans can steal the election again in Florida!"

That will win 100x more adherents in the first day in the sheeple population than Sipsey Street Irregulars have reached over the entire investigation.

So. MY suggestion is of course not to try to win the MSM argument (you can't) but is to neuter the organizations NOW who can do these things so they'll have trouble doing this stuff again in the future.....and let the high profile Holder/Oabamao connections fall where they may.

41 posted on 06/21/2012 9:32:47 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: TigersEye; MestaMachine

**** obviously by “neuter those organizations” I mean ATF/FBI not the MSM....


42 posted on 06/21/2012 9:35:46 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine
Not only have those who care to know been saturated, but the MSM is about to crush those educated numbers by spreading nonsense and confusion.

You're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

**** obviously by “neuter those organizations” I mean ATF/FBI not the MSM....

Good luck with that.

43 posted on 06/21/2012 9:41:51 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
by “neuter those organizations” I mean ATF/FBI....

Good luck with that.

Wow. So you really are not interested in whether we have another Ruby Ridge or Waco or Fast and Furious in two years, as long as we get Holder's scalp?

44 posted on 06/21/2012 9:45:43 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine

You need to ask yourself exactly HOW we are supposed to neuter these orgs when the pols we elect will not lift a finger against them?
Do we storm the walls with pitchforks?


45 posted on 06/21/2012 9:54:18 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: sam_paine

You need to ask yourself exactly HOW we are supposed to neuter these orgs when the pols we elect will not lift a finger against them?
Do we storm the walls with pitchforks?


46 posted on 06/21/2012 9:54:42 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: sam_paine
Wow. So you really are not interested in whether we have another Ruby Ridge or Waco or Fast and Furious in two years, as long as we get Holder's scalp?

Sure I am. I'm just not interested in your incoherent ramblings.

47 posted on 06/21/2012 10:01:12 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

LOL. Thank you for taking the time to reply from on high!


48 posted on 06/21/2012 10:05:14 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: MestaMachine; TigersEye
You need to ask yourself exactly HOW we are supposed to neuter these orgs when the pols we elect will not lift a finger against them?

DAMN Mesta! Hello? THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I BROUGHT IT UP.

We have hundreds of threads about Holder and Obama, but we don't have word ONE about how to reign in ATF/FBI/antigunners.

Forget about "the pols we elect." TigersEye mocks me for even bringing up the idea that we should neuter these agencies in this regard. There's no interest on even FR for such a topic, so why the hell would you expect the pols to be interested, much less the general public.

By the way, Mesta. Go ahead and add me to your "2013+ ATF Scandal" ping list. This will be the pinglist for the next outrage in the organization left when Holder is long gone and a new "justice" figurehead sits at the committee table.

49 posted on 06/21/2012 10:11:21 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine
And I thank you very much for posting while high.
50 posted on 06/21/2012 10:11:21 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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