BP Agent Brian Terry was not the only Federal agent killed by guns allowed to walk by the ATF-DoJ.
Posted on 06/21/2012 4:54:00 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot
The Republicans shamelessly turned what should be a routine matter into a pointless constitutional confrontation. And the White House responded as most administrations do at some point: it invoked executive privilege to make a political problem go away.
(snip) Executive privilege cannot and should not be allowed to shield the executive branch from regular, valuable Congressional oversight. There was no reason the House committee and the Justice Department could not work out a deal to produce the documents requested, or some form of them. Instead, they show again that every issue, large or small, can be turned into ammunition for political combat.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
2 dead Federal agents!300+ dead Mexican citizens, police officers and Federal agents!!
State-sponsored terrorism done by the U.S. Federal government in Mexico and Honduras!!!
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ICE Agent Jaime Zapata was also killed with a gun from Project Gunrunner.
ICE agent's family files wrongful death claim against Justice Dept.
While the weapons found at the Zapata murder scene were not from among the Fast and Furious guns, this revelation is profoundly significant, because it directly contradicts sworn testimony by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.
“I have no information to that effect, no. I don’t know one way or the other,” she replied to a direct question on any Fast and Furious connection by Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas.
Word games. Here's the little trick Napolitano, Holder and ATF are playing. F&F was an ATF operation run out of the Tucson AZ office. But some guns were walked out of Texas gun shops which puts them in the jurisdiction of Texas ATF offices so those ops must have had other names. So far I have not seen any reporting on what those op names were.
Armored SUV could not protect U.S. agents in MexicoU.S. investigators recovered one of the military-style semi-automatic weapons used in the attack that killed Zapata.
The gun came from Texas.
Ballistic testing of spent shell casings and the raising of an obliterated serial number revealed the weapon was a popular Romanian-made AK-47 knockoff purchased at J&J’s Pawn Shop in Beaumont, smuggled south to the Zetas by a methamphetamine trafficker named Manuel Gomez Barba, a U.S. citizen.
BP Agent Brian Terry was not the only Federal agent killed by guns allowed to walk by the ATF-DoJ.
ICE Agent Jaime Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, were ambushed at a fake roadblock in Mexico. Were they set up? If so by whom?
It’s only “pointless” when you’re losing, as evidence by your reluctance to report on the matter over the last 18 months!
You are quite correct. But the ONE thing the SLIMES have consistently accomplished is to make my TAGLINE one of the MOST fitting on our forum.
That said, I truly, for the sake of our country, wish they would do something to inspire me to change MY views (of them).
Uh, OK. What about the fact that the Dems were simply stonewalling and not interested in working out a deal?
The NYT is no longer interested in informing the general public. They serve the purpose of providing the constant affirmation that is required for their readers to maintain their belief in a demonstrably failed ideology.
NYT just paroting the party line now. No immediate comments yesterday signal they were waiting for the central committee to let the idiot fellow travelers know what to post.
Now if CBS continues to run with the ball and Fox continue, we could have a nice circus. Of course with the “journalists” these days who were fed in school how to frame issues, there is little chance the hard core left, aka most of the MSM, will investigate this illegal operation and coverup....much worse than Watergage because no one died in Watergate and we did not involve the US in a nation’s sovereighty either.
All we need now is a defeat of Obamacare in the SC, and the carney barker in charge may just go ape. We need to keep up the pressure, this guy is incendiary and his narcicism is fueled by his racial and jellous nature.
Cannot wait for the perp walk out of 1600 Penn.
IMO, it’s hard to be ‘partisan’ when neither party is on your side.
Yes, most people are ignorant about the background of F&F. But this is not a polite debate that we can educate them and then win.
This is, for lack of a non-Alexjonesianism, an "Info War."
They are counter-attacking with a big gun of confusion. "Tu quoque, Bush started it! More gun laws would save us!"
Our natural reflex is to try to educate them on the difference between "attempts to track" under Bush and "intent to disburse" under Obama. True though it is, it would by a Pyhrric victory to win that WRONG debate. We must defend the 2nd amend and the Constitution, not Bush who was only a marginal friend to conservatism anyway.
Better: "Yes. Indeed. While it was halted temporarily under Bush and now hidden under Obama, both instances are proof that the ATF is rogue and uncontrollable not only under a R, but obviously also under a D now."
We need to neuter the ATF so that they can't play party to anti-constitutional schemes in the future under R's or D's.
Attack the belly and roll-up Holder and Obama in the process.
However, I think there are lots of people even on FR who would disagree with me here, and don't mind having a paramilitary anti-gunner "Iron Law" driven bureaucracy whose only goal is to curtail the Bill of Rights in order to gain funding. Erik Latranyi, for example, keeps trying to educate me that Wide Receiver was wholesome as apple pie, and F&F was satan's own program.
They were concocted by and run within the same unelected bureaus that brought us Ruby Ridge and Waco! The administrations are not the root problem!!!!
no barf alert?
I went to school on that post. Thank you!
I think your strategy is dead on.
In comparison that analogy would hold.
The Department of Justice ’ s Operation Fast and Furious: Accounts of ATF Agents(above) Four ATF field agents testify under oath that they "never even heard of intentionally letting guns "walk" before F&F."
‘Wide Receiver’ CI: ‘It had nothing to do with Bush or even DOJ’
New Documents Highlight Differences in Bush-Era, Obama-Era Gunrunner Investigations
I don't think many, if any, FReepers are thinking that knocking down the Wide Receiver straw man is the main offensive. Exposing and circulating direct evidence of malfeasance, misconduct and criminal acts is the meat of it. But it doesn't hurt to expose spin for what it is either.
Meat of what? Lock up Holder and Obama both, and then what? What "Fast-and-Ruby-Ridge-Furious-Waco" operation will the gun-grabber FBI/ATF bureaucrats think up next under President Biden, Romney or Gawd Forbid Hillary???
"Exposing and circulating?" ABC leads with Heat Wave.
Sam Donaldson is singing the chorus about racism. They're going to report on it, just as soon as they can figure out how they want the BIG LIE to sound.
It's like Eisenhower demanding that Goebbels honestly broadcast on the horrors of the concentration camps.
“They were concocted by and run within the same unelected bureaus that brought us Ruby Ridge and Waco!”
Only partially. The clinton administration wholeheartedly wanted exactly the same kind of gun control as this one does and did its damnedest to bring it about.
All of the cases you cited, including F&F, involved premeditated murder to achieve a political end.
F&F goes much deeper and far wider than either Ruby Ridge or Waco in that citizens of another country were the targets, along with our own guys.
This is beyond a criminal conspiracy and it must be resolved.
Pournelle's Iron Law correctly says that in any organization, there are two kinds of careers. One, dedicated to the goals of the organization (truth, justice, american way, etc) and the second, dedicated primarily to expanding and growing the organization.
In all cases, the second type end up in the positions of power.
Ok, so there are the agents who became whistleblowers...there are some obviously some who are of the first kind. Maybe even the majority (we hope.) But there are obviously a hell of a lot of the second type too. And those people are going to be just as happy as you and me to see a fast conclusion to all this so they can continue building their ratsnest of power.
Mesta: The clinton administration wholeheartedly wanted exactly the same kind of gun control as this one does and did its damnedest to bring it about.
Ok, TRUE! Exactly true!
So the TRUE enemy is lurking in the halls of the government just waiting for opportunities in any administration to expand their power at the expense of A.., T...., or F...... The root problems are the Iron Law bureaucrats who enable people like Holder and Obama (and Reno/Clinton), and are janus-faced to anyone else.
Why are we so gaddang eager to get Holder's scalp and leave these low level scum in the real seats of power just waiting to pounce?
I now can lucidly explain things to others...which I couldn't do before!
Vive le difference!
Leni
So, your answer is to make the MSM do what you want them to do? lol
Who is?
Think on it, Holder, Napolitano, HClinton, and Treasury cabinet heads must have been brought in from the beginning for such a project. And four cabinet heads could not have met without the Top Guy unaware.
What ELSE are they capable of? That is what a lot of us would like to know.
The Left trying to make it “Political Theater As Usual” and their peons’ acceptance of it make my blood boil.
“There was no reason the House committee and the Justice Department could not work out a deal to produce the documents requested”
This is an outright lie. What holder ‘offered’ was an ORAL briefing with NO documents in exchange for an end to Issa’s investigation. There was NO offer to negotiate turning over documents.
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