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Tesla Model S: First drive of the electric sedan that will change the world or die trying
autos.yahoo.com ^ | June 22, 2012 | Justin Hyde

Posted on 06/23/2012 4:39:20 PM PDT by grundle

Of all the new cars unveiled this year, none will be as hotly anticipated as the Model S from Tesla Motors, a luxury sedan doubling as a brash, billion-dollar bet that the era of the electric car has arrived. As the first journalist to test-drive one, I can report the Tesla Model S successfully challenges a century of assumptions about what a great car can be.

Unlike gas engines, electric cars generate their maximum power at start -- and no electric car has ever had as much power as the Model S, whose Performance edition is good for 417 hp. The zero-to-60 mph run ticks by in an impressive 4.4 seconds (5.9 seconds for the 362 hp edition)

the Model S can even do long drives — up to 285 miles in the edition launching today

The revelation of what Tesla has accomplished sunk in when I returned to a gas-powered vehicle. Other luxury cars will keep pace with the Tesla, but after driving the Model S, suddenly you notice the lag between accelerator and power, the exhaust noise, all the energy necessary to keep those parts hurtling forward. It makes a fossil fuel-powered car seem to be working so much harder than necessary. Which is the point.

(Excerpt) Read more at autos.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; cars; green; sourcetitlenoturl; tesla; teslamotors
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1 posted on 06/23/2012 4:39:28 PM PDT by grundle
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To: grundle

$400 million in government low cost loans...

$100,000 for EACH car

Where do you think this will end?

And why are taxpayers subsidizing expensive cars for the wealthy?


2 posted on 06/23/2012 4:43:37 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: grundle
GEORGE JETSON, YOUR RIDE HAS ARRIVED

Sure. At a mere 80K per copy.

3 posted on 06/23/2012 4:48:21 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: 2banana
And why are taxpayers subsidizing expensive cars for the wealthy?

Because stupid people are allowed to vote too.

4 posted on 06/23/2012 4:51:26 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: grundle

I don’t see how electric cars use less energy than gasoline-powered cars. So is this about emissions? I suppose that’s an advantage. But are emissions a problem, outside LA?


5 posted on 06/23/2012 4:53:52 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: grundle

We saw all the same hype with the first Tesla model
released not too long ago. And that’s what it was....
HYPE. Battery technology has not improved significantly
in the last decade. Till it does battery powered vehicles
will be oddities that are expensive, limited in range
and usefulness and slow to recharge.

The key is the battery technology....till we get past
that limitation it’s all more smoke and mirrors, more
hype, more tax dollars flushed down the drain.


6 posted on 06/23/2012 4:54:27 PM PDT by nvscanman
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To: grundle
the exhaust noise

My Lady friend has an Altima with the constant velocity transmission in it. It never changes gears, the engine sounds like a wind up toy in a Go-Cart and it get less gas mileage then my 96 Firebird V-6 does going 80 mph with the AC on.

They can have my "exhaust noise" when they pry it from my cold, dead tail pipe!

7 posted on 06/23/2012 4:54:37 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio - http://www.istandwithrush.org/)
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To: grundle

I suspect our govt. will buy fleets of them and then brag about how many were sold .


8 posted on 06/23/2012 4:54:37 PM PDT by Lionheartusa1 (-: Socialism is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: grundle

Tesla Model S

9 posted on 06/23/2012 4:57:34 PM PDT by Rudder
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To: 2banana
Wait until those seven thousand AA-sized lithium ion batteries discharge without warning.

For the price of that thing, there are internal-combustion-engined cars that will brutally decimate the Model S in terms of acceleration anyhow . . . and be way superior inside and out in terms of pure luxury and appointments.
10 posted on 06/23/2012 4:57:41 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Never mind that the electricity comes from coal plants, which is why some people describe electric cars as “coal-fired”. They increase pollution, but don’t say that to a lefty who wants to feel good about himself.


11 posted on 06/23/2012 4:57:56 PM PDT by Windcatcher (Obama is a COMMUNIST and the MSM is his armband-wearing propaganda machine.)
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To: Rudder

Pretty ugly from that vantage point...


12 posted on 06/23/2012 5:17:17 PM PDT by refermech
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Electric cars use less energy because electric motors are extremely efficient at converting stored energy into forward motion. Around 90 percent compared to a gasoline engine that may only be around 25 percent efficient.


13 posted on 06/23/2012 5:20:19 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: 2banana
"why are taxpayers subsidizing expensive cars for the wealthy"

It's the wealthy who pay the taxes, Fidel.


14 posted on 06/23/2012 5:20:41 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: grundle
the era of the electric car has arrived

Right, right - the era of cars which receive massive taxpayer subsidies and yet must be sold in a price range which spans a well-equipped BMW 5 Series at the low end and a well-equipped Porsche 911 Turbo on the high end. The era of cars which can travel almost 300 miles before becoming completely unusable for several hours. The era of cars which discard the enormous advances in efficiency and cleanliness made to the internal combustion engine over the last 4 decades and instead burn coal.

Truly a golden age. I drive to work past the Tesla HQ in Palo Alto every day - have to remember to thank these visionaries for the magnificent work they're doing taking billions in taxpayer dollars to produce dirty, frivolous cars for dilettantes.
15 posted on 06/23/2012 5:25:04 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: grundle
The article focuses on how smooth "the lines" are and how nice the seats might be. For $50K I'd expect nothing less.

The text, totally unexpectedly, omits such unimportant details as longevity of batteries; effects of A/C and heaters on their charge; how long does the charge take, what type of a charger is required and whether they are available anywhere. I would even want to know how the mass of cargo (or passengers) affects the range.

It's definitely true that with 250+ miles of range an EV is a pretty safe bet practically anywhere. The problem with Leaf was that in many places the distance between gas stations (let alone chargers!) is comparable to the range of the car. So if you miss one you have to call the tow truck. With a large range you have certain freedom. But still this car is not a good option for longer trips, unless 200-250 miles is your daily endurance limit. It depends on how long the charge takes. But fast charge is bad for the battery. What is the cost of 7,500 Li-Ion cells? What is the chance that ONE of them fails - and what happens then?

The country is not at its peak, and there are not too many people out there who have the dough for this car. Many earn less in the whole year than the car costs. In the end a $2K car and a $100K car do the same thing - they deliver you from point A to point B. Of course cheaper cars are scary on a long trip, but even at the level of $5K you are perfectly safe. Anything above that is either luxury or special requirements (such as a large diesel for towing, etc.)

I think this car will make an impact. But the impact will be felt by only two cars on the market: the Volt and the Leaf. Everyone else will not even notice - their market is completely distinct. But EV manufacturers are doomed to be at each other's throats in fight for a handful of remaining rich EV aficionados - who probably already have invested into a few cars. Leaf and Volt already skimmed that market and, by some indications, exhausted it. The offer of this new EV is not very timely.

This car would be a good one if only it could enter the price range of traditional cars - say, $20K to $25K. But I think the costs of production do not allow that to happen even if Tesla Motors assembles cars for free. Given the situation, I don't expect this car to be very common. It's just too expensive, regardless of how good it is. It is so expensive that it will never become profitable to own one, even if your electric meter is stuck at zero.

16 posted on 06/23/2012 5:26:13 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: 2banana

$100K could buy a lot of gasoline. I wonder what the savings in fuel would pay for the extra cost of the car? What is the battery life? What is the cost of a battery replacement? When you sell the car, do they deduct from your selling price the life left in the battery?


17 posted on 06/23/2012 5:26:56 PM PDT by jonrick46 (Countdown to 11-06-2012)
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To: nvscanman

Actually battery technology has improved considerably over the last decade and several advancements now in the testing phase promise a significant leap in the next several years. But admittedly, the cost still needs to drop 50 percent to make EV’s a viable option.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4370061/World-on-cusp-of-EV-tipping-point—says-Tesla-CTO


18 posted on 06/23/2012 5:29:25 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: grundle

From the article,
“On the road, the Model S rewires what you expect when your foot touches the pedals. Unlike gas engines, electric cars generate their maximum power at start”.

An electric dragster, who would have thought?
The boys over at the NHRA must be poopin’ their pants about this !! Heh ...heh ...heh.


19 posted on 06/23/2012 5:30:27 PM PDT by Dartman
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To: Olog-hai

Name one?


20 posted on 06/23/2012 5:30:56 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: NavVet

Problem is the loss sending that power to your house, which is no where near 100% efficient.


21 posted on 06/23/2012 5:32:04 PM PDT by TheZMan (Obama is without a doubt the worst President ever elected to these United States)
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To: Dartman

Actually there is a lot of video on you tube of electric dragsters spanking internal combustion vehicles off the line. Check our the video of the Tesla beating the Porsche etc.


22 posted on 06/23/2012 5:35:38 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: grundle

Justin, you idiot, electric cars do NOT generate their maximum power at start. If you’ve got zero RPMs, you’ve got zero power. But they DO have maximum torque at start. But you’re probably a political journalist and maybe took science back in fourth grade, so we forgive you. But you should look for a new career if you are an automotive journalist.


23 posted on 06/23/2012 5:38:00 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: 2banana

Model S starts at $55k.

The feds subsidize far worse crap like E85.

Yes, the working poor/lower middle class pay payroll taxes but not income taxes..

The wealthy pay income taxes.


24 posted on 06/23/2012 5:38:32 PM PDT by Reaganez
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To: NavVet
Electric cars use less energy because electric motors are extremely efficient at converting stored energy into forward motion. Around 90 percent compared to a gasoline engine that may only be around 25 percent efficient

To burn gasoline, you consume energy already stored by nature. To run electricity, you have to burn fuel to store and convert to electricity probably at the same efficients as the gas burners. I can't see electricity as more efficient. Add the efficiency losses to store the energy to that lost by converting stored electricty to kenetic energy, and I see electricty as more inefficient.

25 posted on 06/23/2012 5:45:06 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: grundle

gasoline has yet to be bested.


26 posted on 06/23/2012 5:46:40 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (they have no god but caesar)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

That is precisely why I think the entire concept of EVs has lived WAY beyond its prime. In the beginning, maybe 30 or 40 years ago, internal combustion engines were much dirtier than they are today and it may have made sense to generate and transmit electric power at night to charge EV batteries, thus relocating the emissions to some far-away place. But today ICE are much cleaner, eliminating that need. Plus you’ve got the highly evolved infrastructure to deliver liquid hydrocarbon fuels and it only take you a few minutes to pump 20 gallons into your tank. With EVs, you can drive maybe 50 minutes at freeway speed and then need to spend the next hour charging your battery. Try that on a long family trip.

The only logical justification in this century is to stop importing oil from middle east tyrants. But we could easily accomplish the same goal by opening up our own domestic resources.

On top of that, the green kooks are shutting down every conventional source of power and now they are even going after natural gas. There simply won’t be enough economical electricity available to charge your EVs.

Lastly, you’ve got the huge environmental problem of EV batteries loaded with toxic compounds and elements. This needs to be included with the emissions from power generation for a complete environmental analysis of EVs. What becomes of the mountains and mountains of these if EVs ever really take off? I don’t know that anybody has addressed that looming problem.

On balance, from a systems perspective, it’s hard to beat liquid hydrocarbons for speed, convenience, high energy density, low overall emissions, and simple manufacturing.


27 posted on 06/23/2012 5:46:53 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: TheZMan

True, but power line transmission loss is still less than the loss of energy required to extract, refine and transport fuel. Those drill rigs, tankers, refineries and trucks etc, all use energy to get the fuel to from the ground to your tank.


28 posted on 06/23/2012 5:47:30 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: NavVet

All true, but since the electricity has to come from a stationary power plant, you have to include the efficiency of that plant, and the transmission losse getting the electricity to your home. I just read where when you add in those losses to obtain the “real” efficiency of an electric car, they are on a par, but not better than, a gasoline-engined vehicle. Plus, given the sorry state of our power grid here today, we don’t have the generating capacity to “fuel” much more than a few extra golf carts. Lastly, unlike hybrids, when an electric car is out of juice, it takes hours to recharge. It’s not like you can pull into a charging station and be on your way with a fresh charge in the time it would take you to fill up your tank.


29 posted on 06/23/2012 5:47:54 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: grundle

The car needs to be $20k or below without government subsidies and recharge need to be MUCH QUICKER than 8+ hrs (1-3hrs) before I would ever consider buying such a car


30 posted on 06/23/2012 5:53:30 PM PDT by 4rcane
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

Well did some research into using a fuel cell(the Russians developed for space) which converted jet fuel directly into electricity, with water and CO exhaust. Using a ceramic electric motor were able to achieve around 50% efficiency. Wanted to make an electric airplane.

Problem the fuel cells were good for about 50 HP, and cost about $100,000, and the capillaries would clog after about 200 hours. Also took about 20 minutes to get the system going.


31 posted on 06/23/2012 5:57:57 PM PDT by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: grundle

Just don’t plan on taking any long distance trips.

also - knowing electric motors and electrical storage systems, I know that when you step on the accelerator at first you will most likely get a great (quick) response.

As you drive, that response continues to drop off on in the last 50 or so miles it is going to be VERY sluggish indeed.

THAT is what is known about the limiting facts and the physics of electric transportation - and until you find a way to quickly recharge said batteries, you are going to experience first (very fast responses) and gradually degenerate to (very sluggish performance).


32 posted on 06/23/2012 6:05:53 PM PDT by jongaltsr
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To: 2banana
$100,000 for EACH car

Not quite. The will be priced between $54,700 up to $105,400.

33 posted on 06/23/2012 6:11:21 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: NavVet

Mercedes-Benz S550? (Well, that’s cheaper than the Tesla by a few grand.) BMW 760? (A bit higher, but still within range.)


34 posted on 06/23/2012 6:12:50 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: hinckley buzzard

Actually, they start around 55k.

BTW,

“Tesla’s customers — more than 10,000 of whom have already paid $5,000 deposits...


35 posted on 06/23/2012 6:13:19 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Photobucket
36 posted on 06/23/2012 6:13:33 PM PDT by twistedwrench
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To: grundle
The revelation of what Tesla has accomplished sunk in when I returned to a gas-powered vehicle. Other luxury cars will keep pace with the Tesla, but after driving the Model S, suddenly you notice the lag between accelerator and power, the exhaust noise, all the energy necessary to keep those parts hurtling forward. It makes a fossil fuel-powered car seem to be working so much harder than necessary.

The quiet ride, fast acceleration, immense power, and relatively extended range, are all well and good, but at some cost.

I wonder how it performs in cold temperatures when battery performance drops significantly, when electric power requirements increase substantially just to stay warm. In inclement weather when you have your defroster and windshield wipers on, what happens to the range? What happens to the range when you are using your air conditioner?

I wonder what kind of safety hazards exist with 7,000 lithium ion batteries? What about the time it takes to charge the batteries? What does it cost to replace the battery pack? Can you go to Walmart and purchase 7,000 AA batteries in an emergency?

Are there extraordinary electrical fire hazards in a crash? Much momentum would be created by the sheer weight of 7,000 batteries.

37 posted on 06/23/2012 6:15:57 PM PDT by olezip
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To: Olog-hai; NavVet
Zero-to-60 mph in 4.4 seconds

Mercedes-Benz S550?

I don't think so.

38 posted on 06/23/2012 6:18:45 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: twistedwrench
Not politically incorrect enough. Mount a .50 cal belt fed on it.
39 posted on 06/23/2012 6:22:43 PM PDT by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receipt.)
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To: grundle

40 posted on 06/23/2012 6:25:53 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: TheZMan
Problem is the loss sending that power to your house, which is no where near 100% efficient.

Electrical plants themselves are less than 50% efficient, too.

Question: Assuming it has a heater, what effect does, let's say, 20 degree weather have on mileage? How about zero degrees?

41 posted on 06/23/2012 6:38:17 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Dartman

http://www.streetfire.net/video/worlds-quickest-electric-dragster_163899.htm


42 posted on 06/23/2012 6:38:41 PM PDT by B.O. Plenty (Elections have consequences....)
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To: dragnet2
Well, you have to get the thinking bit down first. As for me, if I ever plonk down ±$100K on an automobile, I’ll trust the internal-combustion motor long before the seven thousand lithium-ion AA batteries, especially in terms of pure engine reliability, never mind places to refuel (the claimed 45-minute recharge time for the Model S will turn out to be far longer, never mind 45 minutes being interminably long to wait). And I will probably be able to get it to out-accelerate the liberal-media-claimed numbers for the Tesla as well, never mind the existing fact that even the governed top speeds of the internal-combustion cars is already 20 mph higher than that of the Model S Signature Performance model.
43 posted on 06/23/2012 6:40:04 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Steam-engined automobiles also produced maximum torque at start. Also, the time taken to refuel and rewater would have been far shorter than that to recharge the seven thousand AA batteries of the Model S . . .


44 posted on 06/23/2012 6:48:12 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: NavVet
Those drill rigs, tankers, refineries and trucks etc, all use energy to get the fuel to from the ground to your tank.

How does the coal or oil get to the electric plant? Mining/drilling, trucks, etc. We burn the fuel in our gas cars, the electric car people burn the fuel at the electric plant.

45 posted on 06/23/2012 6:52:29 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: grundle

The batteries were said to store 85 KWh, about the same as about 10 cups of gasoline - 2/3 of a gallon. The article didn’t mention what happens when you have to use up a few of those cups of gas to heat, or cool the car.


46 posted on 06/23/2012 6:52:29 PM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: norwaypinesavage
Or...
power steering
power brakes
power brakes
electric window
electric seats
electric rear view outside mirrors
electric window defoggers
electric antennas
electric radio
electric door locks
electric navigation system
47 posted on 06/23/2012 7:01:06 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: refermech

Certainly, nothing special IMHO.


48 posted on 06/23/2012 7:04:24 PM PDT by Rudder
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To: grundle

I drove their concept racer in a parking lot at an investor conference. Scared the bleep out of me and I thought “That’s great but it can’t go far”.

Met Elon and he explained his long term vision with a sedan.

Great idea, very limited market and I ain’t buying.


49 posted on 06/23/2012 7:08:24 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: grundle

I drove their concept racer in a parking lot at an investor conference. Scared the bleep out of me and I thought “That’s great but it can’t go far”.

Met Elon and he explained his long term vision with a sedan.

Great idea, very limited market and I ain’t buying.


50 posted on 06/23/2012 7:08:50 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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