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Do Too Many Young People Go to College?
The Wall Street Journal ^ | June 21, 2012 | LAUREN WEBER

Posted on 06/24/2012 7:18:04 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican

A college education was once regarded as a first-class ticket to a better life.

But the rising costs of higher education, the burden of student loans and a less-certain job market have left many wondering: Are too many young people going to college?

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: highereducation
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1 posted on 06/24/2012 7:18:08 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: MinorityRepublican

A lot of unqualified people are going to college. Look at how many have to take remedial classes. Why are these students allowed into college if they aren’t really for college-level courses?


2 posted on 06/24/2012 7:24:25 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: MinorityRepublican
Liberal Arts Degree Pictures, Images and Photos

Yes. Don't go $100,000's in debt for a degree unless it's in Science, Engineering or Finance.

3 posted on 06/24/2012 7:28:26 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: MinorityRepublican

WAY too many of them go to college.

Most should go to a trade school or something like that. They would be far better off.

Government offers a BLANK CHECK all the the name of EDUCATION and the colleges are all too willing to take those checks.

Colleges and universities can increase tuition every year and the government just gives the student more money to spend 5 1/2 years on their undergraduate degree.

No politician wants to be charged with denying anyone their right to an education. Truth is that so many of these young people would be better off not wasting the time getting a useless piece of paper.

So many young people have never worked a day in their lives before they’re 25 - 26 years of age. That is unbelievable and such a waste.


4 posted on 06/24/2012 7:29:15 PM PDT by boycott (CAL)
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To: ilovesarah2012

I visited the University of Maryland bookstore this weekend.

They actually offer Precalculus, a course I took in high school as a junior.
The book had graphs of functions, logarithms,etc.

You actually get college level credit for high school level math?

And the kicker is that “Precalculus” counts for a General Education credit
in mathematics
alongside “Linear Algebra”, “Statistics” and “Calculus I”

This nation is doomed.

ps. I’m sure Barry O never took calculus at Occidental or Columbia.
can you see barry understanding what a derivative is????!!!


5 posted on 06/24/2012 7:30:07 PM PDT by preamble
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To: MinorityRepublican

Before the 1970s....the typical programs that a college offered was: engineering, science, history, medicine, and business-related. You could take any of these and generally find work. I suspect that we’ve come to a point where there are worthless degrees, and someone ought to explain that to a kid before he finishes high school.

But another topic here....is how a college operates. If you take $18k as normal tuition now for a college, and you have 20k students at this state-run university, then you ought to generate around $360 million a year. Now, as Chancellor...if you figure in some income from sports, some donations from alumini, and the state giving some funds for construction....you ought to be able to run that college easily for $360 million. In fact, you ought to be able to hand back $1k to each and every kid easily.

I’m of the mind that Chancellors need to start explaining how they spend their $360 million a year and where the operational costs really sits. Once you understand how their “business” is structured....we might come to agree that it’s really screwed up and states need to retake the operation and run colleges with cost emphasis in mind.


6 posted on 06/24/2012 7:30:25 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Snickering Hound

I think more need to go in trade skills. Have you seen what an electrician makes? Plumber? Refrigeration guy? My son did not want to do college, he is working now as an EMT, working on Paramedic and wants to take the fireman test. He makes decent money, while his twin sister has changed majors and looks to be in college forever....


7 posted on 06/24/2012 7:32:32 PM PDT by USAFJeeper (Who Dat Nation - Loving the Manning Face!)
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To: pepsionice

And, the “Chancellor” would refer you to the GOVERNMENT requirements....


8 posted on 06/24/2012 7:32:37 PM PDT by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: Snickering Hound

I think more need to go in trade skills. Have you seen what an electrician makes? Plumber? Refrigeration guy? My son did not want to do college, he is working now as an EMT, working on Paramedic and wants to take the fireman test. He makes decent money, while his twin sister has changed majors and looks to be in college forever....


9 posted on 06/24/2012 7:32:53 PM PDT by USAFJeeper (Who Dat Nation - Loving the Manning Face!)
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To: MinorityRepublican

The question is rather pointless. It’s like asking ‘Do too many young people play sports?”

College/University attendance is their choice. A better question would be: “Do too many people get their education or activity of choice subsidized by the federal government?”


10 posted on 06/24/2012 7:33:24 PM PDT by posterchild
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To: MinorityRepublican

Captain Obvious is writing for WSJ?


11 posted on 06/24/2012 7:35:13 PM PDT by pepperdog (Why are Democrats Afraid of a Voter ID Law?)
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To: boycott

I worry a little bit about my 2 nieces age 21 and 19. They are super smart and talented now in college but neither have worked any jobs. One wants to be an art teacher and the other a history major. Hate to see them saddled with huge student loan debts afterwards.


12 posted on 06/24/2012 7:41:34 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or tyranny)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Yes, college should be reserved for those who can afford it and those who can win corporate and philanthropist funded scholarships.

We need more low cost trade schools and apprenticeship programs.


13 posted on 06/24/2012 7:42:52 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: MinorityRepublican
A better question -- is the product overpriced? (I'd say it is.)


14 posted on 06/24/2012 7:44:27 PM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: cripplecreek

We need more low cost trade schools and apprenticeship programs.
__________________________________________________________

Hear, hear!


15 posted on 06/24/2012 7:47:48 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Wings cannot be redistributed, they can only be broken. ~ Oleg Atbashian (People's Cube))
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

Mike Rowe, the Chuck Norris of common sense.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2650612/posts


16 posted on 06/24/2012 7:53:12 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: MinorityRepublican
my degree has taken me to Puerto Rico, England, Germany South Korea and China for work... something a degree in Angry Minority Transgendered Homosexual Studies will never do.
17 posted on 06/24/2012 7:53:30 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: tflabo

One wants to be an art teacher and the other a history major.


They’ll need government to provide them jobs. Unfortunately for them, government is broke and there won’t be much there in the future.


18 posted on 06/24/2012 7:53:48 PM PDT by boycott (CAL)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Do you mean the Communist Indoctrination Centers?

Or the Overpriced Diploma Mills?

I can only think of two “colleges” that are neither military nor religious academies.


19 posted on 06/24/2012 7:55:20 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Romney Sucks. Mutiny Now, or something.)
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To: cripplecreek

Yep! :-)


20 posted on 06/24/2012 8:00:48 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Wings cannot be redistributed, they can only be broken. ~ Oleg Atbashian (People's Cube))
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To: boycott
Article in the paper today--the Lakefront Park system in Cleveland is showing neglect. They have eight openings for park rangers and the money to pay them, but cannot find qualified people to hire. The have five openings for maintenance people and the money to pay them, but--nobody to hire who can fix a tractor or run a beach cleaning machine.

These are full-time gubmint jobs, with benefits. Meanwhile, college grads are jerking coffee at Starbucks. I mean, how qualified do you have to be to be a city park ranger? We're not talking Yellowstone here. Go figure.

21 posted on 06/24/2012 8:02:18 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: tflabo
One wants to be an art teacher and the other a history major

Wow. Good luck.

22 posted on 06/24/2012 8:05:25 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: ilovesarah2012

“A lot of unqualified people are going to college. Look at how many have to take remedial classes. Why are these students allowed into college if they aren’t really for college-level courses?”

That’s easy - colleges now are being used to actually EDUCATE kids, since the NEA, the feds, and the rest of the left own the public schools, but have, more or less, left junior colleges alone (at least so for).

People still need to be educated, and we don’t seem to have the political will to do that until they’re adults.


23 posted on 06/24/2012 8:08:32 PM PDT by BobL
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To: MinorityRepublican

There needs to be more trade schools, technical schools, and more of a push for students to do those instead. Only about a third of high school students actually have the ability to go to a university, assuming they are studying real subjects instead of crap like Diversity Studies or Advanced Lesbian Outrage.


24 posted on 06/24/2012 8:08:48 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

“Do Too Many Young People Go to College?”

Yes!


25 posted on 06/24/2012 8:12:21 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: tflabo

Just, for heaven’s sake, tell your brother/sister to NEVER co-sign for their loans. They don’t deserve that sword hanging over them and the kids may learn a lesson if no one will lend to them without a co-signer.


26 posted on 06/24/2012 8:13:58 PM PDT by BobL
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To: boycott

Private history teacher says hello. :)


27 posted on 06/24/2012 8:18:28 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: MinorityRepublican

The problem is not that we have too many people in college. The problem is that so very few are going to college for math and engineering.


28 posted on 06/24/2012 8:21:10 PM PDT by Sixgun Symphony
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To: MinorityRepublican

The problem is not that we have too many people in college. The problem is that so very few are going to college for math and engineering.


29 posted on 06/24/2012 8:21:24 PM PDT by Sixgun Symphony
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To: BobL

It can be done for a fraction of the cost that colleges charge. You can pay a good tutor about 4, 500 dollars over a summer and make up the ground that they need to get in.

And yes - so many who are in university aren’t prepared, aren’t being taught what they need to know. Most professors in college simply don’t have the time to actually teach the students.

I should know, I ran my own tutoring business for about 5 years. Tutored pretty much everything other than foreign languages.


30 posted on 06/24/2012 8:22:44 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: USAFJeeper

Friend’s son took a two year trade course at a small four year college in Kansas and is now an electrician. Able to live almost anywhere in the U.S. and never has trouble getting a very well paying job. He also had the benefit beginning when he was a young teen of learning the “how to” part from his dad who worked full time in a non-related field but made sure all the kids in the family knew how to fix everything in their house and keep their own car running. Blue collar jobs are linked to the redneck, NASCAR portion of the population and aren’t glamorous enough for some.


31 posted on 06/24/2012 8:40:26 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

In a word, yes.

The problem is that America has no system of polytechnics of the sort Europe has. Such schools provide a job-oriented education deeper than that offered by trade schools here in the U.S.

Instead we suffer under the delusion that the point of a college education is job skills. It is not. The point is to be educated, which might lead to a job, or might simply make one more urbane and cultured. Pushing essentially everyone to get such an education chiefly has the effect of diluting the benefit to those who would genuinely benefit and leaving a lot of folks in debt for credentials that do not guarantee a job, and bitter that they misspent their time.


32 posted on 06/24/2012 8:45:23 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Snickering Hound
“Yes. Don't go $100,000’s in debt for a degree unless it's in Science, Engineering or Finance.”

I would say don't go $100,000s in debt for a significant number of ‘science’ degrees as well. There are dwindling job opportunities for Ph.D. scientists in the life sciences, especially with biotech and pharma hurting.

33 posted on 06/24/2012 8:45:35 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: pepsionice

Universities are also generally very stingy with their endowment money. Several have multiple billions of dollars in endowment money, but they hardly ever dip into it. They want their endowments to keep growing.


34 posted on 06/24/2012 8:48:17 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: MinorityRepublican
A college education was once regarded as a first-class ticket to a better life.

Now it's regarded as the equivalent of a High School Diploma./not sarc

35 posted on 06/24/2012 8:48:48 PM PDT by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: Sixgun Symphony

“The problem is not that we have too many people in college. The problem is that so very few are going to college for math and engineering.”

The real problem is that so very few are capable of going to college for math and engineering and then actually graduating.

OTOH, I know more than a few unemployed engineers. You need some kind of industrial base to require engineers.


36 posted on 06/24/2012 8:55:00 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: MinorityRepublican
1. American high schools no longer have vocational education, that has been pushed to the tech, junior, community colleges.

2. Skill testing employees can open one up to litigation. That has been the case ever since the civil rights acts and landmark case Griggs vs. Duke Power. Best push the onus into colleges and other certification programs where “general knowledge” in some area suffice.

3. Higher education in America is a “Right of Passage” in the literal sociological meaning of this term. Without a higher college degree you are looked down upon, you're a lesser human and in this society everyone who has educated parents and lives in a community where all the neighbors are educated, they too need a higher education in order to be accepted and fit in. The rise in soft science degrees, i.e. history, sociology, psychology, anthropology... follows from a demand in people seeking degrees but not really willing nor having the aptitude for a course of study that requires math and basic analytical skills. The suburban kid is told already in elementary school how they have to go to college, even if they have no interest or aptitude.

4. Colleges and universities as well as other institutions have created barriers in the trades or professions that made them the gate keeper even though these skills might best be learned hands on, i.e. nursing, law enforcement, etc. Not a bad deal for higher education, since they essentially help create the standards that then have to be achieved by paying for their services in order to pratice this trade or profession.

Higher education in America has become littered with on-line degrees, junk programs in womyns (not a misspelling) studies, art history etc. Many junior and community colleges have basically become the vocational educational programs that once were in high schools and taught people a skill they could use if not college bound. It's a time to party, get “some degree” for your parents and community, to show you're smart. Some kids go their to find their husband, yes that happens too. College is a lot of things, but it isn't what we pretend it to be.

38 posted on 06/24/2012 9:11:15 PM PDT by Red6
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To: JCBreckenridge

If you’re a private history teacher, you’d be one of the good ones.


39 posted on 06/24/2012 9:14:03 PM PDT by boycott (CAL)
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To: ilovesarah2012

The problem is that nearly every damn job requires a college degree and if you want to advance to a higher paying position, you need another degree. Years ago it used to be about what experience you had but not so much now a days.


40 posted on 06/24/2012 9:21:55 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Red6

High schools around here have technical programs/classes. My son has taken a whole bunch of vocational classes and taken certification tests for some things. He will take more this year. I wish he could take more, but he has to take English and communist propaganda history, too. I have lost track of how many college credits he has through the vocational training, but he has quite a few. My older daughter was able to take a lot of classes that satisfied university liberal arts core classes while she was in high school. My son is NOT university material. He will probably make more money than his sister will ever dream about making. He has skills! (She has skills, too. I don’t think she has ambition, however.)


41 posted on 06/24/2012 9:21:55 PM PDT by petitfour
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To: petitfour
Many schools and districts around the nation headed in the opposite direction. They have all but eliminated their vocational educational programs. Plano TX where my wife teaches is a good example. Kids that have no interest in college or lack the aptitude don't even really have the option to learn a trade or skills that set them up to have a job after graduation.

As a nation we need to get off this idiotic idea that everyone is college material. We also need to get rid of this elitist idea that somehow the trades are bad or lesser. There are employers in this country that are having a hard time filling jobs they desperately need filled even in this bad economy (a skilled tool and die maker that makes $57,000-62,000 a year on average- usually with good benefits). While you can't find people in certain trades, US colleges pump out thousands with degrees in art history, womyns studies, cultural anthropology, degrees in languages that are dead (not spoken), music therapy, English literature, political science, American studies, recreation, poetry, puppetry (no kidding- a college degree in how to play with puppets)...

42 posted on 06/24/2012 9:42:38 PM PDT by Red6
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To: Snickering Hound

In a word, YES.

Why are there liberal arts schools? They are a danger to society. The graduates often become lawyers. Take out the incubators and take out the spawn.

My sis has a degeree in some kind of humanities or english lit or something like that. I think she went back and got a degree in computer science and physiology and an MBA to make a living.


43 posted on 06/24/2012 9:44:44 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (You've been screwed by your government.)
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To: pepsionice

“and where the operational costs really sits.”

You have to pay the salary of the Dean of Diversity, and her/his/its’ staff, and those SEIU boys are built like tanks and they don’t come cheap either, and a LOT more.../s;)


44 posted on 06/24/2012 9:48:11 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: The_Reader_David

Yes, a better trades education is needed. The shame of trades is that they have a glass ceiling. They are subject to being managed by degreed peopel who know less about what to do than they do.

Mechanical engineers who don’t know how to run a lathe are missing something in my book. There needs to be some blending in the professional education.

Yes, we need more trades. In Europe the journeyman system produces people I’d rather work with than a lot of their engineers.

Of course we don’t make much here anymore. Skilled trades went out of favor and now we don’t have the means to recapture that skill set.


45 posted on 06/24/2012 9:54:20 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (You've been screwed by your government.)
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To: Red6

“The rise in soft science degrees, i.e. history, sociology, psychology, anthropology... follows from a demand in people seeking degrees but not really willing nor having the aptitude for a course of study that requires math and basic analytical skills.”

History as a ‘science’ only goes back to about Leopold von Ranke.

prior to that you had the Trivium and the Quadrivium:

Logic
Rhetoric
Grammar
Arithematic
Geometry
Astronomy
Music

History is a very young discipline, but I also don’t see any Chemistry there either. ;)

If we are going to toss out History then quite a few other things should go as well.


46 posted on 06/24/2012 10:20:18 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: ilovesarah2012

That’s the problem. Too many people are being allowed in college without the basics in math, science and English. I spoke with a recent sociology graduate, and she couldn’t make a logical conclusion out of two sentences.


47 posted on 06/24/2012 10:35:20 PM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: MinorityRepublican

When a student takes out a student loan, to whom does the interest go? Is it paid to a bank, or does it go to the government?


48 posted on 06/24/2012 10:49:26 PM PDT by Stegall Tx (Living off your tax dollars can be kinda fun, but not terribly profitable.)
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To: Stegall Tx
When a student takes out a student loan, to whom does the interest go? Is it paid to a bank, or does it go to the government?

Used to be that it went to the bank that loaned the money -- a government guarantee getting the student a lower interest rate.

But now, under the Obama administration, the money is a direct loan from the government and the interest is payable to the government.

49 posted on 06/24/2012 11:05:55 PM PDT by okie01
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To: MinorityRepublican

not too many going to college imho. If the degrees were doctor/science/engineers then its a good thing, yet we subsidies too many useless degrees like history/law/art/social studies


50 posted on 06/25/2012 12:12:38 AM PDT by 4rcane
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