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Too Fast, Too Furious (National Review Editor portrays Issa as conspiracy kook)
National Review ^

Posted on 06/27/2012 10:44:17 AM PDT by Windy City Conservative

That’s not very satisfying, of course. So, some Fast and Furious critics have searched for a better one — not by analyzing the evidence, but by concocting a conspiracy theory: specifically, that the Obama administration allowed the guns to go to Mexico deliberately in order to increase gun crime there, so it could cite that crime as a reason for more gun control here. And unfortunately, Fast and Furious’s lead critic, House Oversight Committee chairman Darrell Issa, has joined them.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; Mexico; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2deadfeds; 300deadmexicans; atf; banglist; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; ice; murdergate; obama; rkba; robertverbruggen
Someday, it will be obvious that many at NRO are not friends of justice and freedom. NRO is the head of the establishment Republican media gravy train.
1 posted on 06/27/2012 10:45:18 AM PDT by Windy City Conservative
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To: Windy City Conservative

I cancelled my subscription to NR decades ago after Bill Buckley jumped on the Carter bandwagon to giveaway the Panama Canal.


2 posted on 06/27/2012 10:46:54 AM PDT by IbJensen (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Windy City Conservative

....and as long as Calderon gets HIS money from Odungo, he’ll stay quiet.


3 posted on 06/27/2012 10:46:56 AM PDT by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
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To: Windy City Conservative

Watched and Listened to last hearing of the committee it was nearly a mantra of the (D) Reps to bring up the need for a new assault weapons ban.. guess NR did not take the time to do same.


4 posted on 06/27/2012 10:48:07 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: Windy City Conservative

Never let a crisis go to waste. So create the crisis.

Sorry NRO but there is no other theory of why this disaster became an operational plan.

It also fits perfectly Into what AG Holder has said in the past.


5 posted on 06/27/2012 10:54:33 AM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Windy City Conservative

These are the same smart people who shouted us down when we said Obama is a radical. Now Dear Reader has taken to ignoring Congress and dictating law from his throne and still they are deluded by the idea that they are the smartest people around.

Elitism always leads to stupidism because elitism is devoid of common sense. We have stupidism ruling the Nation on both sides of the aisle and that is why we are in the mess we are in.


6 posted on 06/27/2012 10:55:25 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Windy City Conservative
Sandy Burglar stealing classified documents by stuffing them down his pants was a conspiracy written off as an accident (like who doesn't store paper in their underwear to read for later?).

Bill Clinton's Lewinsky affair was a conspiracy.

See, a conspiracy is where real events are covered up and investigations are obstructed. Nobody ever sets out to “execute” a conspiracy. Conspiracies happen as a reaction to another event. That is important because a conspiracy is very different from a conspiracy theory.

A conspiracy theory is usually a logical story that explains something that is factually unexplained, obstructed or falsified. 9/11 Truthers do not even have a real conspiracy theory because the facts are known and documented. They are just kooks. However, in the face of obvious obstruction and a long list of unknowns in a case that involves incompetence at best and felonies at worst, theorizing on the intent of a program that eventually got American agents killed is fair game.

We don't know how the program was supposed to work, whose idea it was, what the intended outcome was, who ran the program, who authorized it, who bought the weapons, where the weapons went, what went wrong, etc. People died and the most important thing to the DOJ is their image and reputation. I don't even believe they consider the charges individuals might face by LE.

So, in my opinion, without having any answers, multiple theories should emerge and be investigated. This is how detective work and investigations start. Motive? Target/Victim? Circumstance? Smoking Gun?

If Fast & Furious would have been successful, what would the outcome have looked like? Why can't we get that answered? How was the program suppose to work? Where did the plan fail?

The conspiracy is that we can't get answers to the simplest of questions as it is being “covered up.” THAT ACTUALLY IS A CONSPIRACY!

7 posted on 06/27/2012 11:00:49 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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To: Windy City Conservative
That editor is an idiot. What is important is that the ATF/Justice Department was actively pushing weapons into the hands of mexican cartels. That is the issue.

People speculating that it might have been a scheme to lay the groundwork for an assault against the second amendment is just that, speculation.

Others might speculate that the administration was trying to overthrow the mexican government. Maybe the administration is in league with the drug cartels, Maybe Obama is trying to destabilize north america to make it easier for the muslims to infiltrate.

Nobody except the perpetrators knows what their reasoning was, and speculating and criticizing the speculation are both a waste of time. Get on with the investigation.

8 posted on 06/27/2012 11:04:45 AM PDT by oldbrowser (Blue state sickness must not be rewarded)
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To: Windy City Conservative

9 posted on 06/27/2012 11:09:08 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (Resurrect the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC)...before there is no America!)
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To: Windy City Conservative

The first comment after the article slices and dices the premise nicely.


10 posted on 06/27/2012 11:09:57 AM PDT by Edgar3 (Don't THREAD on me!)
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To: Windy City Conservative
Read the comments at the site. Not to many folks there are buying the BS either.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

11 posted on 06/27/2012 11:10:41 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Windy City Conservative

There are kooks both on the left and right. Where the left differs from us is that THEY don’t have a strong and atavistic need to point to their own kooks and say, “Hey WE are not THOSE guys..!”

But the right has a very dire case of that —it stems from awareness that we aren’t, “sitting at the Cool Kid Table”. And that makes sense because genuine conservatives believe in small government and personal liberty, while in DC the answer for everything is more government.

Conservative elites need to regularly denounce their own folks.

Here is the rub —the people making the nuttiest guesses about F&F are not kooks they are CORRECT.

Sometimes the truth DOES sound crazy: would you believe a Kenyan pot-smoker from Punaho’s, “choom gang” who was fellated in a limo by another man after smoking CRACK could become POTUS? And that in his high-school yearbook he thanked a homo DRUG DEALER for all the good times...?

A year ago I would have said almost every element of those stories was nuts —now I’ll believe almost anything.


12 posted on 06/27/2012 11:18:13 AM PDT by gaijin
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To: Windy City Conservative

It’s kind of hard to analyse evidence that he Justice Department is keeping hidden, but I am sure that when it does come out, it will prove that Issa is no conspiracist.
Obama and holder did exactly what Issa said, they manufactured the F&F Gunwalking to attack our 2nd. Amendment rights.

Why else would they hide the evidence so strongly that Obama put out an Executive privilege?

Executive Privilege is an open admission of the fact that he knew.


13 posted on 06/27/2012 11:21:29 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: gaijin

If this theory is so flawed...then it should be no problem releasing all the documents that prove it. It is the duty of the press to investigate things kept secret and see that the guilty are punished for their crimes or just mistakes.


14 posted on 06/27/2012 11:23:08 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: gaijin

If this theory is so flawed...then it should be no problem releasing all the documents that prove it. It is the duty of the press to investigate things kept secret and see that the guilty are punished for their crimes or just mistakes.


15 posted on 06/27/2012 11:23:08 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: IbJensen

Cancelled mine about a year ago.


16 posted on 06/27/2012 11:24:31 AM PDT by rashley (Rashley)
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To: oldbrowser
What is important is that the ATF/Justice Department was actively pushing weapons into the hands of mexican cartels. That is the issue.

Exactly.

And sufficiently damning without an established motive.

17 posted on 06/27/2012 11:24:46 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: Windy City Conservative

NR is pure Bilderberg. It’s little more than a Constitution-hating propaganda rag, like The Economist, for a NWO run by banksters and Soros.


18 posted on 06/27/2012 11:28:49 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: Windy City Conservative

JLo is a real loser. She was one of the first to jump on the Bishop Romney gravy train back in 2008. And she’s never stopped stooging for him since.


19 posted on 06/27/2012 11:47:31 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Windy City Conservative

Cancelled my subscription a couple years ago or so, their cowardice on the eligibility issue being the final straw. When I see Lowry on tv now I feel the same cringing embarrassment for having read his crappy mag as when I voted for Juan McCain.


20 posted on 06/27/2012 11:49:06 AM PDT by kreitzer
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To: Sirius Lee
NR is pure Bilderberg. It’s little more than a Constitution-hating propaganda rag, like The Economist, for a NWO run by banksters and Soros.

Behind closed doors the Bilderbergs are schooled by the lizard people. They cloned Buckley and Soros. Most banksters too. I think the Economist is just naive about this but it wouldn't suprise me if they are lizards too.

21 posted on 06/27/2012 12:03:37 PM PDT by bkepley
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To: Windy City Conservative
I challenge the NRO to prove this assertion without the withheld documents Issa is trying to obtain. This is nothing but parroting democRat talking points.
22 posted on 06/27/2012 12:07:48 PM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Windy City Conservative

I remember when NR was conservative.


23 posted on 06/27/2012 12:13:45 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Windy City Conservative
(National Review Editor portrays Issa as conspiracy kook)

Robert VerBruggen reliably defends the Second Amendment. For some reason he wants to give the administration the benefit of the doubt despite evidense against the accused of means, opportunity and multiple motives. He omitted the need to maintain the enthusiasm and donations from the Brady Campaign et al. He's just afraid that Issa is going out on a limb without conclusive evidence of abject stupidity. Don't ask me why.

24 posted on 06/27/2012 12:17:35 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

One of the most tragic aspects of the aftermath of the attempted assassination of President Reagan is what happened to Brady and what happened to us as a result.

Brady was extremely likeable and popular. It’s really sad what happened to him.

But his wife, in mindless fury at what happened to her husband has done much harm to the country.

People supported the Brady bill because they liked and sympathized with this couple.

It’s over. Forget the Brady’s. Bad things happen. I’m sorry but the Brady bill has always been ridiculous.


25 posted on 06/27/2012 12:27:38 PM PDT by altura
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To: Windy City Conservative
Photobucket
26 posted on 06/27/2012 1:10:01 PM PDT by RetSignman
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To: neverdem; All

From the article:

“It was always just a matter of time before Fast and Furious became public knowledge, and at that point the statistics and anecdotes become useless as gun-control propaganda — and a scandal is born. It’s hard to see why the gun-control-conspiracy explanation is more believable than the botched-sting-operation one, even if the latter seems like it could be the work of the Underpants Gnomes from South Park, and even operating under the assumption that the Obama administration cares not a whit for human life.”

This is where the author makes his false assumption. It is far from obvious that this scandal would become public knowledge. The MSM was only too willing to completely ignore it. It took more than a year and a half of hard work by dozens in the new media to bring this to a head, and it nearly did not happen. It never would have happened if the Tea Party had not brought about a Republican majority in the House.

The idea that the MSM is willing to make public a scandal without looking at whether it benefits the “progressive” agenda or not is simply false.


27 posted on 06/27/2012 1:54:21 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain; IowaHawk
It is far from obvious that this scandal would become public knowledge.

I thought it would as in: "If it bleeds it leads." It's been all over the country. It's just not been on network TV much, although I saw stories on PBS' News Hour at least twice. I thought Issa was going after Holder any which way he could because Holder was either complicit or incompetent. I thoght Holder would get impeached. Contempt of Congress could just be a prelude to it if Holder doesn't resign.

Obama and the Kingdom of the Concrete Skull

“As the great Iowahawk tweeted, it’s 'Watergate with toe tags.'”

28 posted on 06/27/2012 3:03:32 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: Windy City Conservative
It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to connect the dots. The totality of the published facts on Fast and Furious point to the likelihood of a criminal conspiracy. Some people on Issa’s committee, thanks to a whistle blower, were gathering information before ATF or DOJ knew they were on to them and could begin a cover-up. Like most of the establishment news media Robert VerBruggen doesn't have a clue. But he will.
29 posted on 06/27/2012 9:21:09 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: Windy City Conservative

30 posted on 06/27/2012 9:31:40 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: Windy City Conservative
RINO, anti-freedom, blue-blood Republicans at National Review like this guy are why I no longer read the rag.

What substantial difference is there between Democrats and Republicans like this guy? They're all statists who want to take MY freedom, MY money, and MY guns.

A pox on them all.

31 posted on 06/27/2012 11:30:11 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Windy City Conservative

The NYTs has written less obvious leftist spin than this on F&F. This article is garbage. Propaganda.


32 posted on 06/28/2012 6:58:06 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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