Skip to comments.Affordable Care Act SCOTUS Decision--Live Thread
Posted on 06/28/2012 4:56:21 AM PDT by John W
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IIRC, the HHS gets to write whatever she/they want now and call it law.
We now have qadis and morality imams. Fatwas at 5.
Believe me...I did NOT want this dream to be “reality”...but it just seemed so REAL-—that, “I had a feeling”... and it “turns out to be right”. as does the “aftermath” of the talk of “this will finish Obama off” and such...that was ALSO in the dream...
” If I understand it..What they held was that they could not punish states by withholding present funding for Medicaid.”
Is that (the “punishment””) a part of the law? Or was it a completely separate issue
“I looked at your posting history and see that you were totally silent at FR in the last 2 months so you didnt stick your neck out on this at all.”
a) I’ve had things more important going on in my life than coming on to Free Republic to speculate about what the Supreme Court would decide.
b) Why should I make a prediction and “stick my neck out” when I had NO IDEA how they would rule? They ruled. Now I’m here to voice my opinion about it and read other people’s opinions.
c) Pretending that the frequency with which a person expresses his opinion has anything at all to do with the validity of his opinion is, at best, ignorant, and at wost, dishonest, offensive and evil.
“Why did only the kook get this one right?”
In fact, numerous Democrats “got this right” and predicted Roberts would vote this way. For much simpler reasons such as that he believed it to be the correct decision.
In my opinion, the only people who REALLY got it right were those who said, “We don’t know what will happen, because we don’t know what is going on inside those nine heads.” Not entirely true, because roughly six of the judges are 100% predictable. Lots of people, you included, guessed right. Lots of people, you not included, guessed wrong. Guessing right doesn’t prove your reasoning to be right.
And I have far more respect for the people who said “I think that most likely (x) will be the outcome because I think that Judges (y and z) believe (a and b)” as opposed to anyone who said “I know that (x) will be the outcome because I know for a fact that Judge (y) is being coerced by a conspiracy involving evil villain (z) and those dastardly ideological organizations (a and b).”
In such cases, it is irrelevant who ends up correctly guessing the outcome. One is making a reasonable guess, whereas the other is discarding reason in favor of fanciful speculation.
The Democrats’ inability for over 3 years to submit a budget notwithstanding, all spending still starts in the House. The law is legal only as a tax. This is why the Democrats went through all their fraudulent gyrations to not portray it as a tax. Taxes need to be allocated first through the House. This is an astronomical tax increase that goes directly to the taxpayer. This mess of using interstate Commerce was intended to make the tax one step removed from a direct tax by making the insurance companies the tax collectors and forcing you to buy insurance.
The game is changed. The key is that the House of Representatives has nowhere to hide. They have to present the cost to we the taxpayers and justify it. Do we have the will to kill this? The curtain is pulled back and now we have to decide.
He said he would repeal it.
I think that means he will repeal it.
No, I heard NUMEROUS people, mostly Democrats correctly predict this outcome, with FAR SIMPLER explanations than you.
And by the way, science uses probability, not predictions. You are committing the common fallacy of mistaking an assertion about the likelihood of an event occurring to be a prediction as to what will occur.
“Its sort of like the simple explanation for a man eating another mans face being that he just got hungry.”
Are you serious?
99.9999% of people DON’T eat someone’s face when they are hungry. So this is a RIDICULOUSLY NON-SIMPLE explanation. “Simple” precludes HIGHLY IMPROBABLE.
El Rushbo did loosen up a little today when he said that he was warned long ago by a good source that he shouldn't consider Justice Kennedy as being the future weak leak on the Supremes, but to keep an alert eye on the so-called conservative Roberts.
Rush thinks Roberts is trying to carve out a "legacy" for himself....i.e., people think of the "Warren Court" and the "Rehnquist Court"....and he'd like to leave a "Roberts Court" to history.
Rush may be correct on this, although I think there's something more to it than that rather simplistic analysis. I think Rush would privately agree with my take, also.
You’re speculating about me. All I noted was that since you haven’t posted here in the last 2 months I didn’t see you stick your neck out on this. Stop assigning arguments to me that I never made.
I also never said that I definitely knew what was going to happen. I said that I suspected that Roberts was compromised because of x, y, and z and that I feared he would uphold Obamacare because he was told he had to. I loudly hoped that I was mistaken.
The guy upheld Obamacare using unlimited-government arguments that even Justice Kennedy saw past. And he looked and acted absolutely miserable when he did it.
Ya know, I could hold Ginsburg hostage and then as a solid conservative predict that she would vote to overturn Roe v Wade just because she’s such a reasonable person and would make the right decision. That wouldn’t be fishy at all. No, not at all. And if Ginsburg voted to overturn Roe v Wade after all these years of being a rabidly liberal pro-choicer, well... Occam’s Razor would say it was because she just thought it was the right thing to do...
The DEMS were predicting that Roberts - who was this evil right-wing creature - would miraculously see the light on this issue alone, even though Kennedy wouldn’t even see it that way? That, by itself, would make me question their reasoning. Maybe you can show me where they predicted these things so I can see what kind of reasons they used. For instance, when has Roberts ruled that Congress could make any purchasing demands it wanted on civilians and then punish people for not doing it, as long as the fine was rationalized to be a “tax”? Did they bring up Roberts’ response to that argument when the government lawyer made it in the hearing? Did Roberts respond positively to that line of argument? What is their reasoning?
In fact, what is YOUR reasoning? What leads you to believe that Roberts was simply convinced by the sheer brilliance of the Obama regime’s arguments? I thought there were a lot of liberals who were ready to cream the lawyer because he was so pathetic and it was so obvious to everybody that his arguments were worthless. If even the liberal news people were shaking their heads at how pathetic it was, it would take a bit to show me that Roberts was overwhelmed by the brilliance of the arguments made.
How many judges issue ex parte invitations to the defendant of a case they considered that very day? And how many announce that ex parte invitation to the national press so that it is reported on the same day that people are waiting to hear what the judge ruled on the defendant’s case?
Especially in something really important to a lot of people. Say, for instance, the judge for OJ Simpson inviting him over for cookies and coffee, and a tour of the courthouse right after the trial maybe - and the judge make sure that the invitation gets announced to the press so it’s reported nationwide. You know, that kind of thing. How often is that done?
I’d like to see some stats on that, sir - as well as some potential reasons for the rates at which we see this phenomenon.
Not only that, it is aimed at those too poor to buy health insurance!
Which is probably what happened..
You’re absolutely right, Old Sarge.
We could re-write the list of offenses in the Declaration of Independence, updated to Obama abd 2009-2012.
All three branches of the Federal government have failed us—the Legislative, the Executive and the Judicial.
It is time for a reset.
November 6th will be the last chance for a peaceful reset America will have.
I believe that. But I don’t believe all the spin on FR that this was a bad thing that happened to conservatives today. In the coming days and weeks, I think some FReepers will recant their position today that Roberts is a traitor to the cause.
Yes, the timing of this could not be better for the push to kill this monstrosity. I was watching Stuart Varney last night and he was talking about why Romney is smart to stay focused on the economy. Growth is about 1 1/5%, the unemployment figures are due out next week. Varney is saying that there is expectation that unemployment claims will be increasing and the unemployment rate will likely go up over 8.2%.
Would you want to be a liberal pushing hard for this Obamacare monstrosity in light of this? If we as conservatives can’t take this and destroy the Left in light of the overall condition of the economy and our nation as a whole, maybe we deserve to go down. Obama can crow all he wants over his ‘victory’. He has to deal with the 50% who pay the income tax while 50% pay none. We aren’t dead yet and the stage is set for us to take it back.
We have to look at all angles of this before we determine that Roberts killed us. In truth, he got all the liberal justices to agree that the premise of the law under Commerce is unconstitutional. We have to do the rest.
Roberts knows he must not appear pleased with the ruling. That explains the comment “Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”
He knows that he is in a role and must play the part.
Was talking with an extremely intelligent conservative friend today and while she hasn't decided how she's going to vote in November, she said she finds the hysteria with regard to Obama very "troubling," as it was hysteria against Bush and Republicans in general that gave us Obama, and it seems to her as if it's the same thing in reverse to vote for Romney.
I'd told her that for the first time since 1976, when I cast my first vote ever for Gerald Ford (and have voted EVERY election since), for the first time ever, I won't be voting straight Republican ticket.
I'll be voting third party at the top of the ticket because I know that there's no such thing as voting "against" a candiate. You can only vote FOR something ever, even if it's FOR thumbs-down on a ballot proposition. There is no vote "against," only FOR. So in the presidential, I will be voting FOR a plurality, the only hope we have of helping conservatives in their fight against whichever statist wins.
“Let me think. A GOP sweep in November or upholding the Constitution for our children and grandchildren.”
How can we have the latter without the former?
I just read the article at http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/28/Did-Roberts-Give-in-to-Obama-Bullying . It says that the dissenting opinion refers to a DIFFERENT opinion as the dissenting opinion and uses the term “we”, which is typically used for the majority opinion. This suggests that Kennedy’s opinion was supposed to be the majority opinion.
The article suggests that Roberts changed his vote at the last minute - they suggest because of the media “bullying” here toward the end. They talk about the thin reasoning, which is not characteristic of Roberts - as if he had no time to come up with excuses for his decision. There is also a video at the bottom of that link; I can’t see the video but it claims that Justice Kennedy was visibly angry about the decision.
Somebody had mentioned also that the opinions are read in order of the seniority of the justice who wrote the majority opinion. I don’t know exactly how the reading of the decisions went today, but I wonder if Obamacare being last would reflect a majority opinion written by Kennedy rather than by Roberts. Were the decisions in order so that the last decision was read by the most senior (that is, longest-standing) justice? Did Kagan or Sotomayor write the majority opinion for Stolen Valor? If not, then somebody more senior than Roberts read before he did, which is out of order.
Let alone give him a mandate with a landslide! Because the fact that the landslide was actually a referendum against Obama, would be forgotten in six months and Romney, the GOP Establishment, moderates, and liberals would point to it as an overwhelming popular demand for Romney's "progressive style of governing." ABOers who never liked Romney but voted for him anyway in pure panic, would be petrified, just like the conservatives who would be paralyzed and powerless as a minority in Congress because of Romney's perceived "popular mandate" and combined support among moderate Republicans and Democrats.
That is when a lot of us here would be saying to ABOers, "Smooth move, Ex-Lax."
Pray for a plurality. VOTE for a plurality!
If you need to Zen out to some Country Music, here’s Don Williams, “I believe in you”
No one seems to have an answer for me.
With this ruling how does it effect people like me with multiple health issues, but have extreme bad reactions to side effect riddled drugs these drug companies are pumping out. Can I be forced to purchase them as I am Medicare/TFL?
I have Fibromyalgia, Peripheral Neuropathy, and 3 other auto immunes, and there are few drugs I can take. The PCP would love to be able to force me onto muscle destroying Cholesterol meds. I’d be in a wheel chair with in a week. Last one he tried was Whelcol, 3 pills gout pain, 5 pills and I could barely walk.
I don’t want to be forced to purchase, much less take their crappy meds. Our income is fixed, we can’t afford these high co-pay drugs that can’t be taken because of horrid side effects, worse than the disease I have, and end up in the toilet.
I WILL NOT VOTE FOR RINO ROMNY! Evil is evil, even if it is the lesser of 2 evils.
13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
I am sorry your guilty conscience compels you to continue to attack me.
Perhaps when you compromise your principles to vote for The Father of Obamacare, The Mormon Bishop, Romney, then you will feel better. After all, we’ll need him to appoint conservative judges like GWB did, in giving us Roberts. May the odds be ever in your favor on that, my FRiend. TAXATION FOR SOCIALIZATION!!!! Woo-hoo! You’re backing a real winner there.
As for my stand, I simply shared God’s word with “Windy”. I suppose if you consider standing on clear truths hypocritical, well that is yours to grapple with.
Further, I get the distinct impression that you are quite alright with a person who claims to be a Christian calling another claiming the same, a bigot. The first is standing on principles dictated to him by the Republican party, and the second on principles dictated by God. The second is who is being called “bigot”.
Please, MHGinTN, tell me....are you calling me a bigot?
And secondly, is God a bigot, too? After all, isn’t it right and fair for us to choose which of His precepts matter? In God We Trust! Ha!!! What silliness./s/s/s/s/s
Does the term “lukewarm” ring a bell?
Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, MHGinTN, and He will lift you up.
That’s all I’m saying. But you just don’t get it.
"Thank you, SCOTUS. This Obamacare ruling fires up the troops as Americas eyes are opened! Thank God.
This proves to be such an unsettling time in America as we undergo the fundamental transformation that Barack Obama promised he would do to us if elected. Obamacare was dealt in deception and confusion by flooding the public with an overwhelming amount of conflicting rationale via thousands of pages of unread legislative detail, which is the radical lefts M.O. Obama promised the American people this wasnt a tax and that hed never raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000. We now see that this is the largest tax increase in history. It will slam every business owner and every one of the 50% of Americans who currently pay their taxes. The other 50% are being deceived if they think theyre going to get a free ride because Medicaid is broke. Recipients of Obamas free health care will have fewer choices and less accessibility. Trust me this much more expensive health care WILL be rationed; to claim otherwise defies all economic and common sense.
We will not retreat on this. A newly elected legislative branch is key to defending our Republic and fundamentally restoring all that is good in America.
SCOTUS now rules this is a tax? Well, Congress has the ability to create taxes and also has the ability to rescind them. Upon their return from the July recess, Congress should act immediately to repeal this terrible new tax on the American people, and indeed they must repeal all of Obamacare. This is the most brazen and sweeping new tax and government overreach imposed on us. We the People did not ask for this tax, we do not want this tax, and we cant afford this tax. This is not an answer to Americas health care challenges.
Its time, again, for patriotic Americans to rise up to protest this obvious infringement on our economic and personal freedom. November is just around the corner. Today, the Supreme Court issued their ruling on Obamacare. In November, We the People will issue ours." - Sarah Palin
I think playing a part was some latent psychological urge in Roberts' psyche to "become someone apart" in his midlife........which caused him to abruptly, impulsively switch at the last minute from his comfortable, publicly-perceived conservative persona......and hook on to the alluring bait of the leftist associate justices like a young carp going after a dough ball.
I see. Remarkably confused reporting, first we got “mandate struck down”, then we got that it was 6-3 to uphold the mandate as a tax, now it turns out it was 5-4 for that position and Roberts really did sell us out.
Brilliant: we now have completely unlimited government. All Congress has to do is impose a confiscatory tax on anyone who doesn’t comply with whatever they decide, and hey-presto, it’s not illegal to fail to comply, but you lose all your assets and livelihood to the IRS if you don’t, and get thrown in the slammer, not for failing to comply, but for tax evasion if you refuse to give them up.
I was pointing out your hypocrisy, in doing exactly what you demand the poster not do. You impugn any voting for Rominy to oust little barry commie, then demand that the poster not impugn you for your voting choice. That’s hypocrisy and it doesn’t surprise me that you cannot see it. It’s called a blind spot of the soul.
Guilty conscience? You really are a self-righteous hypocrite. Rave on exposing yourself.
Blind spot of the soul...hypocrite....bigot....
Keep it coming. Sounds like you need someone to beat up today. Well, here I am.
And when you get done beating me, you’ll still be voting for a weak moral choice.
So...is my left cheek good and raw? Here’s my right....after that, how about my back......
Palin is right on!!! This ruling by the Supreme Court seals Obama’s defeat. The real important vote today is the criminal/civil indictment by the House of Representatives of Attorney General Eric Holder for the murder of two brave ATF agents and hundreds of innocent citizens of Mexico!!! And....the stupid Democrats marching out of the House to avoid voting. Dummies and losers, all!!! Ask the Democrats in Wisconsin. The American people are coming to you Obama to destroy you and the Democrat Party politically on November 6, 2012!!!
I hope everyone is as seething as I am. I can’t wait until November. I’ll tell you what, though, win or lose, I feel the same way I did four years ago regarding the people who voted the Communist in Chief in.
They’re dead to me.
I have no humanity available for those people. If they’re in need on the side of the road, they’re not on the side of the road because I didn’t see anything. If they live in a particular city, that city doesn’t exist for me and I won’t be going there. I don’t want to know them, I don’t want to see them, I don’t want anything to do with them. They are worthy of nothing but contempt.
Ultimately, it increases centralized power.
I am puzzled by Roberts here, as well, but I watched Cavuto today, and he had on a commentator Charles — Dang! I can’t remember his last name right now, but I have seen him quite a few times, and he always leaves me impressed with his knowledge and common sense. His take is that Roberts made his ruling so that the voters would realize that they need to get this awful bill back to Congress to be dealt with. Cavuto told him that it was a crazy idea.
I believe that Roberts is a good guy, so I am just betting he knows something we don’t. Hard to say. Depressing turn of events.
I wouldn’t touch you with Obama’s paws. Icky
You're another of the later 2008 sign ups. I suspect you are here trying your dnc best to suppress turnout and reduce the margin of a Milt Rominy vote so your dnc can cheat successfully, knowing your dnc cannot cheat and win if it is not close. You're still just a run of the mill self-righteous hypocrite.
Yeah, if your ilk can make it close then your dnc can chaet and win. Did you really think Freepers would not see through your whine?
Yeah, if your ilk can make it close then your dnc can cheat and win. Did you really think Freepers would not see through your whine?
“STATES CAN OBJECT WITHOUT HAVING THEIR MEDICARE FUNDS REMOVED.”
It’s Medicaid funds, not Medicare. This travesty of a law already has half a trillion dollars of Medicare cuts in it, but few people have been getting the word out on that. I pray the older, sensible group of our voters ALL learn about that before November.
I feel really sorry for you. I have been praying for you since you first posted to me, and I will continue to do so. You’ve wasted your time with me, and now it is time for you to move on.
I loath the dnc, by the way. Not that it matters what you know about me, or think about me.
Good luck, Finny. MHGinTN has learned the word ilk and is having fun throwing it around. He’s cruising for a fight and is having a blast being nasty. By the way, I find your posts, Finny, to be very insightful and interesting. Keep up the good work.
Bwahahahahaha, thanks I needed a good laugh ... at you.
You passive aggressive types are always so nuanced in your nastiness. It is entertaining when one has been trained to spot the personality types.
We are going to funammentally restore our Sacred Republic. Talk about getting our blood up. Man oh man, if today's events didn't wake up every American, nothing will.
November 6th people! Do what you can!
I ran across this suggestion, which was filmed before the decision. I don’t think states not setting up health exchanges will work now that Roberts and company have given the Feds the green light to levy any taxes their little brains can conceive.
What do you guys think?
I made it clear in the last post that you have had no effect on me.
Tell yourself whatever you want, as I first said, and also made the point that I knew that is exactly what you would do. And you have proven my analysis of you to be correct.
How does it feel to badger, and badger, and still end up at the same place?
I’m sorry, MHGinTN that I am not cowering appropriately, but the end of this story will not change. You will continue to tell yourself whatever you want and you will continue to have no effect on me.
I will not vote for Obama. I will not vote for Romney for religious reasons. I stand on God’s side. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes....well I guess you can explain that to Him when you meet face to face, as we all will, one day.
I’ll continue to pray for your heart to soften. I’m signing off now. Blessings to you and yours.
If I was older, I would forthwith update my will to remove any of my relatives who put Obama in office. If there were no relatives left after that process, I would find a deserving charity.
I tend to agree...but anyway you cut it, in so doing, he exceeded his powers on the Court and set a dangerous precedent that one day the other side will immulate much to our pain.
As it is, here in Idaho it is another day out here in fly-over land (meaning traditional, strong America) in the United States. As a result of yesterday’s rulings, we can clearly see November from here, crystal clearly. We must WIN elections to turn the direction of our nation & the ship of state. We have one of the best opportunitites in a generation to make a marked difference...& a most critical one...this November.
Vote for America. Vote for traditional values that have made America strong. Vote for the family. Vote for the free market. Vote or LESS government. Vote for a balanced budget. Vote for morality. Vote for fiscal responsibility. Vote for teaching people to fish rather than making them perpetually dependent on a bloated, bankrupt & failing government.
God bless us all in our decisions, that we may ourselves, as citizens clean this mess up & elect people who think similarly & clearly. Because, in the end, it is, & was always meant to be up to us.
AMERICA AT THE CROSSROADS OF HISTORY