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Supreme Court Strikes Down Stolen Valor: You Can Lie About Military Service
abcnews.go.com ^ | 6/28/12 | LEE FERRAN

Posted on 06/28/2012 9:54:34 AM PDT by ColdOne

The Supreme Court struck down the Stolen Valor Act today, saying that the First Amendment defends a person's right to lie -- even if that person is lying about awards and medals won through military service.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fuscotus; ruling; scotus; stolenvalor; stolenvaloract
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1 posted on 06/28/2012 9:54:39 AM PDT by ColdOne
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To: ColdOne
Good, Ubama needed some more "Servant of the People" Medals

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/171/05/171-0503070851-Obama-General+Stalin.jpg

2 posted on 06/28/2012 9:57:42 AM PDT by KC_Lion (Repeal or Revolt-The only choices now.)
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To: ColdOne

Word fail me.....


3 posted on 06/28/2012 9:57:54 AM PDT by lula ( We cannot afford 4 more years of the Won!)
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To: ColdOne

Well, the first amendment is pretty clear...


4 posted on 06/28/2012 9:59:09 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: ColdOne

I agree with this decision. We don’t want the government telling us what we can and can’t say, even if we say something untrue or unpleasant or objectionable.

Also, free speech counters free speech. The correct response to stolen valor is full court press shaming of the individual.

Long live 1A!


5 posted on 06/28/2012 9:59:17 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: ColdOne

Today is turning out to be a day have long dreaded. Will buck up later today or tomorrow. My promise.


6 posted on 06/28/2012 10:00:13 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: ColdOne

6-3 ruling. Let me guess..... Roberts = Souter. I am sick today


7 posted on 06/28/2012 10:00:35 AM PDT by Anti-Hillary (Under Romney's Governorship, MA. was the birthplace of gay marriage & socialized medicine in America)
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To: ColdOne

So are laws against perjury now unconstitutional?

And is it OK to lie about whether I’ve bought health insurance?

Or should I just be honest and refuse to pay the healthcare tax on the grounds that I am symbolically speaking out against the tax?

So many questions...


8 posted on 06/28/2012 10:00:54 AM PDT by Stat Man
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To: ColdOne

You may henceforth refer me to Space Admiral now.


9 posted on 06/28/2012 10:01:52 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Lorianne

I agree with the ruling also. The man committed fraud. I would think he could be prosecuted in that regard if he rec’d money on false pretenses. Who knows? But we don’t need a law to force people to tell the truth. How stupid. It’s like burning the flag. I guess it is free speech. Sorry...1st Amendment allows quite a lot that we have to accept, but that’s why it’s important to uphold it. Good ruling. Who voted what here?


10 posted on 06/28/2012 10:03:58 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: ColdOne
As the former Emperor of the World, and having received 20 purple hearts, at least one of every medal the Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines and French Foreign Legion issues, I support the right to lie.

Without lying Kenyan pot smokers couldn't become President. Without lying many Supreme court nominees would never be confirmed. Without lying most congressmen would never be elected.

Our entire system depends heavily on a person's right to look their opponents in the eye and tell the biggest fattest whopper they can.

11 posted on 06/28/2012 10:06:54 AM PDT by DannyTN (t)
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To: ColdOne

Obama can go for that MOH for personally killing Bin Laden with his bare hands now.


12 posted on 06/28/2012 10:07:01 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The Liberty Experiment is over. All aspects of your life will now be MANDATED.)
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To: ColdOne

So...... If one of these clowns can lie and say “I earned these medals.”, does that mean I can lie and say “He fell down the stairs.”?


13 posted on 06/28/2012 10:08:12 AM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: Stat Man
"And is it OK to lie about whether I’ve bought health insurance?"

LOL

14 posted on 06/28/2012 10:08:54 AM PDT by DannyTN (t)
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To: DannyTN

15 posted on 06/28/2012 10:10:37 AM PDT by DannyTN (t)
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To: nikos1121

Looks like the side that lost wasn’t able to make a case that this was akin to fighting words or hollering “fire” in a crowded theater where there is no fire. But enlisted personnel take this stuff seriously and it will be a major bummer to morale when any idiot can go pretending in public — as many doubtless will — that he is “the very model of a modern Major General” when he wasn’t even in the service.


16 posted on 06/28/2012 10:12:09 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew)
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To: Lorianne
Does this mean I can say I'm a lawyer? I mean it's free speech. It's not like you have to actually do anything to deserve to call yourself a lawyer.

And, on second thought why stop there. I can say I'm a Cherokee Indian Constitutional Law Professor or something.

17 posted on 06/28/2012 10:12:20 AM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Lorianne

“We don’t want the government telling us what we can and can’t say, even if we say something untrue or unpleasant or objectionable.”

There’s a huge difference between “untrue” and “unpleasant or objectionable.”

Government regulation restricting the right to lie is the whole basis for laws about contractual agreements, fraud, perjury, etc., etc. The First Amendment was intended to protect unpopular speech, especially against the government, not to protect deceit.

Our society is breaking down, in large part because THERE IS NOW NO SHAME when it comes to lying. The Supreme Court is also upholding lying in its recent AZ immigration ruling by allowing the current administration to refuse to enforce immigration law despite Obama swearing to enforce the laws of the land. The Supreme Court is also upholding lying by ruling that a law specifically described as “not a tax” when passed by Congress, is, in fact “a tax” and therefore Constitutional. If Kennedy thinks this is a tax, shouldn’t the correct ruling then have been “And since you didn’t pass it as a tax, it is unlawful.”?


18 posted on 06/28/2012 10:13:22 AM PDT by Stat Man
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To: cripplecreek
"You may henceforth refer me to Space Admiral now."

Catchy, but not lofty enough. I am now to be referred to ONLY as The Honorable, Undisputed, Intergalactic Supreme Emporer of All Things Living and Not, Past Present and Future.

I should probably register that title somewhere before OAssHat tries to take it.

19 posted on 06/28/2012 10:13:41 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: Stat Man

You can lie, but Congress can now tax you for lying, for being honest, for being silent, and for posting.


20 posted on 06/28/2012 10:14:21 AM PDT by DannyTN (t)
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To: ColdOne
So when I go to court I can now just plead the first instead of the fifth and get away with anything?

21 posted on 06/28/2012 10:14:39 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Jack Black
I can say I'm a Cherokee Indian

But you'll never get away with it unless you inherited your mee-maw's high cheekbones.

22 posted on 06/28/2012 10:14:39 AM PDT by kevao
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To: ColdOne

Early in the Iraq war my Nephew died in Fallujah.
At the funeral the F.B.I. arrested some baboso who got up close to the parents dressed as a full bird Colonel.
I think John would have beaten the guy had he gotten to him.


23 posted on 06/28/2012 10:16:45 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Hey Mitt, F-you too pal)
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To: ColdOne

For the last 75 years the U.S. Supreme Court and the appellate courts have with consistency favored the criminal element in our society, the pornographer, the foul mouthed, the vice addict, the pervert, the seditious and treasonous


24 posted on 06/28/2012 10:18:35 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: ColdOne

Considering that a corrupt-country wrecking-baby killing-white hating-Black lying muslim-bastard son of a communist whore, can claim that he is a legitimate president, then why not?

Well, freedom of speech, as precious as it is, is a double edged sward.. it cuts in both directions.


25 posted on 06/28/2012 10:18:47 AM PDT by Gator113 (***YOU GAVE it to Obama. I would have voted for NEWT.~Just livin' life, my way~)
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To: cuban leaf

“Well, the first amendment is pretty clear”

Oh, really? Then why has fraud generally been illegal throughout the history of our Republic?


26 posted on 06/28/2012 10:20:00 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: cripplecreek
You may henceforth refer me to Space Admiral now.

I think I'll put graduate of the Vulcan Science Academy on my resume. Always wanted to do that...

27 posted on 06/28/2012 10:20:28 AM PDT by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: Stat Man
So are laws against perjury now unconstitutional? No. Perjury is still perjury. So is fraud still fraud. But merely telling a lie that doesn't cross a line into fraud is just a lie. The court made the right call here. Lying about military service is obnoxious and cowardly but the law doesn't (and shouldn't) go after someone for merely being an obnoxious coward.
28 posted on 06/28/2012 10:22:06 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Stat Man

Did I ever tell you about the time I sat down with obama and he admitted he was born in Kenya? No? Well, he did! I swear!


29 posted on 06/28/2012 10:24:11 AM PDT by Terry Mross ( To all my kin: Do not attempt to contact me as long as you love obama.)
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To: ColdOne

After today’s ruling, what good is the Medal of Honor that I received in the Spanish-American War?


30 posted on 06/28/2012 10:24:30 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: nikos1121

“The man committed fraud. I would think he could be prosecuted in that regard if he rec’d money on false pretenses.”

I agree with this part of your post. I believe people can also be prosecuted for falsely yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater and endangering people.

I disagree with this ruling in that I believe the damage done to society and the individuals who actually served in our military is just as severe as if someone had been cheated out of money or had their life endangered. Someone who lies about this is trying to take something deserved by others away from them and gain it for himself. The First Amendment was intended to protect unpopular speech, not stealing something you haven’t earned.

And as for burning flags, the whole concept of “symbolic speech” is utterly ridiculous. Isn’t refusing to pay my taxes, robbing a bank, killing someone I don’t like, etc., etc., etc., every bit as much a symbolic statement?


31 posted on 06/28/2012 10:24:30 AM PDT by Stat Man
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To: Mich Patriot

Emporer?


32 posted on 06/28/2012 10:27:05 AM PDT by OldPossum ( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)
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To: Jack Black

We don’t need more laws limiting free speech.


33 posted on 06/28/2012 10:29:01 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: Jack Black

We don’t need more laws limiting free speech.


34 posted on 06/28/2012 10:29:25 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: Tublecane

It is legal to lie. It is illegal to commit fraud.

It is legal to own a gun. It is illegal to use it to commit a crime.


35 posted on 06/28/2012 10:29:35 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Joe Boucher

Security implications out the yen-yag one has to suppose. With the ruling, am having doubts one could stop or detain an individual in that type of false dress. Same would undoubtedly be okay for those wishing to do harm by having dressed as such. Wonder when dressing as a LEO will be protected speech for those who are impersonators? Opens a hugh can of worms (imho).


36 posted on 06/28/2012 10:30:19 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: DannyTN

I think I was the only Green Beret in the Navy with 4 Medals of Honor, I looked great in my uniform.

Oh, and I was a General too.


37 posted on 06/28/2012 10:33:04 AM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: Tublecane

Fraud is deception for the sake of personal gain or damaging another. Pretenders decked in unearned military honors arouse our indignation but there are rarely demonstrable damages resulting therefrom.


38 posted on 06/28/2012 10:33:33 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Ramius

“The court made the right call here. Lying about military service is obnoxious and cowardly but the law doesn’t (and shouldn’t) go after someone for merely being an obnoxious coward. “

I disagree. It is NOT merely being an obnoxious coward. It really and truly IS what it was called: “stealing valor”. It is fraudulently stealing something you are not entitled to.

“No. Perjury is still perjury. So is fraud still fraud.”

Because they are defined as such in the law. And in these cases a specific type of LYING is specifically deemed illegal. But here the Court is saying you CAN’T separately define a previously unspecified type of lying as a specific unlawful type of lying, based on the First Amendment. Don’t you see that’s not logically consistent? Either all lying is protected by the Constitution, or else the government has the right to apply names (like “fraud” and “perjury” and “stolen valor”) to some types of lying, thereby making them illegal. Which is it?


39 posted on 06/28/2012 10:34:54 AM PDT by Stat Man
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To: ColdOne

Mark Levin will be livid this evening.


40 posted on 06/28/2012 10:37:06 AM PDT by chemicalman (The more support I see,the harder I want to work,and the more determined I am not to let folks down.)
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To: ColdOne
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that those who agree with this decision have never served in the Military?

SO I ask you who support this, WHY should the Military even bother to award Medals for different conduct, such as having been wounded, meritorious service, duty over and above the call, having served in harms way, or for valor?

They are much more than "Little Pieces of Cloth" or ribbons: for those of us who have served (and earned some recognition for what we did/accomplished) they are "SPECIAL" and "CHERISHED" and even though most of us never have the opportunity to display/wear them, we KNOW (in our hearts) what those who have been awarded same, did (most of the time as there as exceptions: SEE John "F'n" Kerry) to have "earned" and deserved them as well as what we did.

That some scumbags might benefit from lying about their accomplishments which are not true or brag about their service, is beyond despicable and a sad, black day for all those who came before us and the sacrifices so many made for our Country.

41 posted on 06/28/2012 10:40:40 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet
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To: ColdOne

They pizzed on America with ObamaCare and now they’ve pizzed on our heroes. Black crows of death, indeed.


42 posted on 06/28/2012 10:42:12 AM PDT by bgill
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To: ColdOne

I agree with this one. I think that the First Amendment protects our rights to be jerks. I like the fact that we can tolerate awful speech that other countries cannot.

I find the man to be disgusting but so long as he is not profiting from his lie I don’t think its any of the government’s business. You can also make a slippery slope argument about the government stepping in and deciding to be the arbiter of what is truth and what is a lie and punish citizens accordingly. Whats to stop them from deciding to step in and punish people based on their opinions about other things? Could Obama and the Democrats eventually extend this type of logic and aggressively police our thoughts?


43 posted on 06/28/2012 10:45:37 AM PDT by Woodsman27
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To: lula

Well, in the greatest tribute to Seinfield, I now declare myself a Doctor AND a Lawyer so I can operate on you then sue myself for damages when the operation fails, then I can pull a M. Scott and loudly state “I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY”.

Who said you could learn nothing from TV?

Now that it is legal for me to wear those 4 MOH’s, 15 Silver Stars (with “V” attachment for Valor), 150 PH’s etc, I really don’t want to as all I was trying to do was upset you anyway.
Just like ‘they’ took the fun out of ‘burning the flag’ by saying it was ok....

I certainly hope I don’t have to explain to anyone that I am being very facetious and sarcastic in my final statements. ...


44 posted on 06/28/2012 10:45:50 AM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 "Hopefully this administration is a "bad dream" - think the Newhart show.")
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To: OldPossum

Ha ha ha! Note to self: proofreading is your friend.


45 posted on 06/28/2012 10:46:17 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: Stat Man

“So are laws against perjury now unconstitutional?

And is it OK to lie about whether I’ve bought health insurance?

Or should I just be honest and refuse to pay the healthcare tax on the grounds that I am symbolically speaking out against the tax?

So many questions...”

This has nothing to do with perjury. This is about an unsworn statement that the person made no material gain from. He was a liar who’d lied about other things such as being a professional athlete and being caught up in the Iranian Hostage Crisis in the past. He thought that this would be another good post. You will not be free to commit perjury.


46 posted on 06/28/2012 10:48:17 AM PDT by Woodsman27
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To: cuban leaf

“It is legal to lie. It is illegal to commit fraud.
It is legal to own a gun. It is illegal to use it to commit a crime.”

This is a very faulty comparison.

Committing fraud is a specific type of lying.
Committing a crime is not a specific type of gun.

The truth is:
It is legal to lie, except in cases like committing fraud or perjury.
It is legal to own a gun. Committing a crime with it is illegal, but you can still be legally owning the gun while committing the crime. After you are convicted of the crime, you will probably not be allowed to legally own a gun ever again, but that’s different.

The point here is that legislators are allowed to carve out exceptions to legal lying, such as fraud and perjury. It’s inconsistent for the Court to say that the 1st Amendment prohibits Congress from carving out a stolen valor exception, but doesn’t prevent fraud and perjury exceptions.

What they are REALLY doing is enforcing their value judgment that the consequences of stealing valor aren’t as bad as the consequences of fraud and perjury, so the 1st Amendment is more important than the consequences of stealing valor, but less important than the consequences of fraud and perjury. It sounds to me like you agree with that assessment.

I hope they had the courage to make that argument clear in their opinion, rather than do like many here are doing and make the mistake that fraud and lying are two completely different things, when the truth is that fraud is a subset of lying.


47 posted on 06/28/2012 10:49:40 AM PDT by Stat Man
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To: KC_Lion

Did I ever tell you guys about the time that I was on that mission where I was behind enemy lines and had to kill thirty enemy combatants using a toothpick? I was awarded the purple heart, silver star and medal of honor for that gig. /s


48 posted on 06/28/2012 10:50:29 AM PDT by FlipWilson
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To: cripplecreek

Barney Fwank is still Rear Admiral.


49 posted on 06/28/2012 10:50:31 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: FlipWilson

Lemme guess, Kerry had your back?


50 posted on 06/28/2012 10:54:13 AM PDT by bgill
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