Skip to comments.Did SCOTUS set up a new attack on ACA? Any tax must originate in House (vanity)
Posted on 06/28/2012 5:26:30 PM PDT by TigerClaws
Despite claims to the contrary, the SCOTUS has ruled the ACA imposes a "tax". With the SCOTUS ruling, this is ironclad.
What's also ironclad is that -per the Constitution- ALL taxation legislation MUST begin in the House. The ACA began in the Senate.
Since such a tax isn't really illegal until it's collected, the moment the IRS tries to do so someone will file against it.
quote: Article 1 Section 7 of the Constitution states "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives."
With that wording, the Mandate is definitely shot down but considering that it's just a part of the overall bill that introduced it, it's very conceivable that the whole bill will be struck down.
Obamacare was passed first in the House. The Senate then voted to adopt the House version through Reconciliation, thereby allowing the Democrats to avoid a filibuster and cram it through the Senate with only 51 votes.
I like this!
Wrong, tax bills now originate at the SCOTUS.
Any tax? such as this one which was passed by teh Democrat controlled house?
Yep. The Party’s over. Turn out the lights.
Now all the R’s need is 51 to repeal it.
Any argument related to taxation -- even if it doesn't involve this specific point -- is an example of this. There are some parts of it that can't legally be challenged yet because nobody has any legal standing to challenge them right now.
We can’t put the entire weight of our dysfunctional republic on John Roberts back. Even for as a weak vessel as Roberts I can’t blame him for taking a pass. But, wouldn’t be great if this little mustard seed of jurisprudence — the mandate is actually a tax — could grow into something powerful and redeeming.
Tomorrow, I plan to check your facts. My memory differs, though, and a few other codgers with me tonight remember this bill initializing in the Senate, although a tapdance was slapped together so that it appeared to be a House bill. The way you describe it was the way it was supposed to be handled.
I believe you have that backwards. The Senate bill became law, therefore the “tax” originated in the Senate not the House.
What classification of tax can it be other than a penalty tax?
True. But that brings up another point: How can a regulatory agency (HHS) grant waivers to a "tax" imposed by Congress (to follow the SCOTUS interpretation)?
The exemptions require immediate challenge. Could the Dept. of Agriculture begin granting waivers to personal income tax? Could the EPA begin granting waivers to capital gains taxes? If the mandate is in fact a tax, how can a gov't agency grant waivers to said tax? Not even the IRS can do so - an act of Congress is required.
The Senate gutted a bill passed by the house and inserted the language of ObamaCare.
And this is the beauty of the proposition. Taxation authority is clearly spelled out in the Constitution. Congress, specifically the House, can no more delegate its authority in this area than either the Executive or SC in theirs.
Assume for the moment that the DHHS can continue to issue waivers, exemptions, etc. Then what is to stop any executive, at any level of government, from exercising the same discretion with regard to income taxes, property taxes, etc? Where does it stop?
It doesn't stop, which is why all federal tax laws must be passed by a legislative body representing a majority of the people. Sure, Congress has the power, but how are they going to wield it? Now that the cat's out of the bag, every exemption, every waiver, every rate increase, every kickback has to go through the House.
Are people beginning to realize the effect of moving Otax out of the back room, which enjoyed -0- oversight and 100% discretion under commerce clause provisions, and out into the broader debate?
The more I read about this, the more I suspect Chief Justice Roberts basically looked at this heap of sh!t and tossed it back to the American people so they could do with it whatever they want -- either by pressuring their elected representatives to overturn it, or by ignoring it.
Did this bill not go to conference committee for reconciliation? Game over...this is the bill.
The constitutional requirement for revenue bills to originate in the house is a joke.’
This scam has existed for a long time.
The house can pass house bill 001 to rename a post office to honor Mickey Mouse.
The senate can delete all of the language in house bill 001 and insert revenue or taxing language in it’s place.
Since the bill “originated” in the house; then all is well.
Thanks for the info guys and gals.
Really the political solution is the ONLY solution.
In other words, he abdicated his reponsibility. Brave Justice, like sh**.