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Romney’s health care mandate included tax penalty (I heard Dems already using this on the radio)
CNN ^ | Friday June 29, 2012

Posted on 06/29/2012 12:42:23 PM PDT by Bigtigermike

Washington (CNN) — Republicans are seizing on the individual mandate’s penalty in the newly upheld health care law as proof President Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on middle class Americans.

[.....]

As it turns out the tax penalty in the president’s health care law was modeled after the reform plan passed in Massachusetts under then governor Mitt Romney.

In a 2009 interview with CNN, Romney explained how the Massachusetts health care mandate worked. If the state’s residents decided to forgo health insurance when they could afford it, Romney said they would face the loss of a tax exemption. In other words, they would be assessed a tax.

“There are a number of ways to encourage people to get insurance and what we did, we said ‘you’re going to lose a tax exemption if you don’t have insurance,’” Romney told CNN in the interview.

During the interview Romney held up his health care law as a model that “could inform Washington on ways to improve health care for all Americans.”

(Excerpt) Read more at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: mandate; obama; obamacare; romney; romneycare; samething
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1 posted on 06/29/2012 12:42:36 PM PDT by Bigtigermike
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To: Bigtigermike

Don’t give a damn. “Romneycare” wasn’t national health care, it was a state plan.

Do we live in a world today where NO ONE remembers the Tenth Amendment, or is that ONLY at CNN, the Supreme Court and here on Free Republic?

Romney’s health plan might be a disaster, and if so the PEOPLE OF MASSACHUSETTS can kill it.

A federal plan, meant for the whole nation is unconstitutional as it violates the tenth amendment. And since it has NOW been called a TAX by the Supreme Court, it can be repealed with 51 votes in the Senate and a majority in the House.

Romney has vowed to repeal it, and Obama has vowed NOT to repeal it. Our best bet is to go with the one who has at least vowed to repeal it.


2 posted on 06/29/2012 12:47:04 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Bigtigermike
Romney said they would face the loss of a tax exemption. In other words, they would be assessed a tax.

I'm not sure I buy that argument. Let me state it another way.

People are given an income tax exemption $3,800 for each qualifying child.

If I have no children, is that the same thing as being taxed $3,800 for having no children?

-PJ

3 posted on 06/29/2012 12:47:22 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Bigtigermike
So what?

I hope the RATs are stupid enough to run ads about Obamacare wall-to-wall until November. Nothing like reminding the jury about this piece of crap.

4 posted on 06/29/2012 12:49:19 PM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: Bigtigermike

Romney once again has his chance to do a mea culpa and renounce Romneycare being served up to him on a silver platter. Will be smacking the ball out of the park if only he’d take it.


5 posted on 06/29/2012 12:49:54 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Bigtigermike
I don't care what the bedwetting flagburners say, romney promised he'd repeal Obamacare on his first day of office, and I believe him. I'm not going to let the Limpwristed flipboys fling around the "hypocrisy" word every time.

Voting between Romney and Obama is like voting between a slow-acting flesh-eating fungus and the Bubonic Plague. You can deal with the fungus later, but if you don't deal with the Black Death now, you'll definitely die.

6 posted on 06/29/2012 12:50:04 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Obama doesnÂ’t have the work ethic to be Anti-Christ.)
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To: SoFloFreeper
“Don’t give a damn. “Romneycare” wasn’t national health care, it was a state plan”

Thanks. I was just going to post the same. I don't like Romney but this is ridiculous.

7 posted on 06/29/2012 12:54:04 PM PDT by saleman (!!!!)
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To: Political Junkie Too
If I have no children, is that the same thing as being taxed $3,800 for having no children?

Some other clown here was trying to make the same assertion that a tax deduction is the same as compliance with the obamneycare mandate.

What Roberts has done is to create a new federal power out of whole cloth wherein the government can levy a property tax against you for, say, not buying property.

In the process of twisting logic in order to make an unConstitutional law appear Constitutional, Roberts brainfarted something even more unConstituional.

8 posted on 06/29/2012 12:55:19 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: Bigtigermike
We MUST get rid of Obama.

We MUST get rid of Obama.

We MUST get rid of Obama.

We can't survive another four years of this!

9 posted on 06/29/2012 12:58:13 PM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: saleman

Some point this obvious thing out.

Others fear that Mitt Romney when unleashed would stop at nothing to get Romneycare-like universal coverage in the USA, even though he answered the announcement of the USSC decision by saying he’d waive all 50 states on his inaugural day.


10 posted on 06/29/2012 12:59:46 PM PDT by raccoonnookkeeper (I keep raccoons in a nook!)
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To: Tzimisce
The Dems are failing to realize something.

Repeal of tax laws cannot be filibustered.
11 posted on 06/29/2012 1:01:07 PM PDT by Windcatcher (Obama is a COMMUNIST and the MSM is his armband-wearing propaganda machine.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

They’re going to keep repeating this notion that “hey look, all these Republicans supported the mandate way back when,” but what they don’t realize is that many of those so-called “Republicans” were defeated in primaries and were the cause of the whole TEA Party movement to begin with.


12 posted on 06/29/2012 1:05:21 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Bigtigermike

Its different when Romney does it. LOL


13 posted on 06/29/2012 1:14:15 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Bigtigermike

It doesn’t matter! The Founders always intended for the states to have powers that were purposely NOT given to the federal government! Romney and every other governor and state legislature are free to tinker and experiment all they want...as long as their cotozens continue to extend to them the power to do so. They can be the incubators of innovation if they want to be. The constitution was written to guarantee our rights and liberty by constraining the federal government. It is in no way inconsistent for Romney to say that what I did in the state of MA...in accordance with the state legislature and with the approval of the voters of MA is not something I’d approve being done on a federal level.


14 posted on 06/29/2012 1:16:35 PM PDT by pgkdan (ANYBODY BUT OBAMA!)
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To: cripplecreek
It's different when a sovereign state does it. It isn't binding on other states.

-PJ

15 posted on 06/29/2012 1:20:49 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

“Romney once again has his chance to do a mea culpa and renounce Romneycare”

You obviously don’t get it.

Romney gave to the citizens of Massachusetts the crap that they wanted and they are happy with it.

Call it pandering if you want but they wanted universal healthcare and he delivered.

So here is a summary for you:

People of Massachusetts = in favor of Romneycare

People of USA = Against Obamacare.

If all the other socialist states had put in place their own versions of romneycare, no one would demand healthcare reform at the federal level.

If you live in a red state, Romney did you a favor. Just remember that the support for Obamacare in Massachusetts is very low because they already have Romneycare in place. This is what federalism is all about. States should be free to do what they want.


16 posted on 06/29/2012 1:21:30 PM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: Tzimisce

Did you squeeze your eyes closed and stick your fingers in you ears when you said that?

You plantation dwellers are all the same.


17 posted on 06/29/2012 1:22:42 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek

Yes it is. See #16


18 posted on 06/29/2012 1:22:46 PM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: Bigtigermike
Romney's was a state plan.

He gave the bluest of blue states what they wanted.

19 posted on 06/29/2012 1:25:27 PM PDT by what's up
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To: cripplecreek
It is different a State Law or mandate pertains to the specific state not all of the states like a Federal law or mandate or tax.
20 posted on 06/29/2012 1:26:55 PM PDT by funfan
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To: SoFloFreeper

I’m with you(SoFloFreeper),”RomneyCare only covers The Commonwealth of Mass;ObongoCare is The Nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


21 posted on 06/29/2012 1:27:52 PM PDT by bandleader
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To: funfan

So how many federal dollars did it cost the taxpayers to implement or were you kinda hoping no one would ask? Seems to me that it was around $400 million in the first year.


22 posted on 06/29/2012 1:30:34 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: BarnacleCenturion
It was a so called "conservative" judge (who many of us conservatives were pushing for when he got nominated who gave the nation ObamaCare yesterday. It was Justice Kennedy (not even worthy of being called a RINO) who was on our side.

Sad but true.

It's time the "conservatives" we elected do what we elected them to do. There's only one thing worse than a RINO running for President and that's a "conservative" who becomes a RINO after we give him the power he seeked.

23 posted on 06/29/2012 1:34:27 PM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com/)
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To: Bigtigermike

And CNN your point is? Now I’m supposed to say “Oh okay now I’ll vote for Obama?” Puleeeeeeeeeze!


24 posted on 06/29/2012 1:37:57 PM PDT by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

You hit it right on the head. A state has a right to run iitself, and if someone doesn’t like it they can move. This administration wants to run everything. Look at Arizona trying to stop the illegal immigration. Obama wants to control the state,but the states have the right to make ther own laws, just like the thirteen colonies did. States rights is what we’re talking about!


25 posted on 06/29/2012 1:38:26 PM PDT by MondoQueen
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To: Bigtigermike

http://iwanticewater.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/two-wongs-dont-make-a-white/


26 posted on 06/29/2012 1:40:13 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Bigtigermike

Yes. He said it did. And the “it was a State plan” mem is just plain stupid. And no, he can NOT repeal it. He’ll never get 60 votes in Senate. And, no, reconciliation can not be used.

Some Conservatives should have paid attention and not listened to pundits for the last year. Some conservatives should think for themselves and stop letting news entertainment think for them. Some conservatives should NOT have voted for Romney.

Romney is going to get slaughtered in the general.. This is a disaster of epic proportions. We MUST get rid of the GOP elite. MUST.

Santorum 2012


27 posted on 06/29/2012 1:41:28 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: SoFloFreeper
Exactly!

Is pointing to Romney's debacle on Mass. suppose to make us ignore Obama's?

These guys reasoning is warped.

Romney knows he is going to win based on removing Obamacare, any flinching after he is elected, will end his presidency and the GOP-period.

28 posted on 06/29/2012 1:42:15 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

He won’t. He is the most inept nominee I have EVER seen and I’ve been voting since Goldwater.


29 posted on 06/29/2012 1:42:30 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: SoFloFreeper
NOBODY, and I mean no body no body believes Romney believes what he says.

He won't do a thing.

30 posted on 06/29/2012 1:48:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: funfan
Massachusetts people are mentally slow and need guidance from their betters ~ in the Democrat party.

Without it they'd probably just walk out to the ocean and drown.

31 posted on 06/29/2012 1:51:51 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Without it they'd probably just walk out to the ocean and drown.

Be still my beating heart... :-)

32 posted on 06/29/2012 1:53:28 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

“Don’t give a damn. “Romneycare” wasn’t national health care, it was a state plan.

Do we live in a world today where NO ONE remembers the Tenth Amendment, or is that ONLY at CNN, the Supreme Court and here on Free Republic?”


It’s criminal whether it is state wide or national. It was a plan that not only drained money from the people of Mass., it existed by sucking money like a vampire from the federal govermnet too... which includes my money, and your money, in different states that didn’t vote for RomneyCare. Either way, Mittens wanted RomneyCare for the whole nation, and doesn’t/didn’t understand that there is no one to bail out the federal government. IOW, he’s a liar and a fool.


33 posted on 06/29/2012 2:24:25 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Bigtigermike

Tu Quoque


34 posted on 06/29/2012 2:29:30 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrats are the problem. Vote them out, all of them.)
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To: what's up

“Romney’s was a state plan.
He gave the bluest of blue states what they wanted.”


Mittens sold it, lied about it, and forced it on the people of Mass. while laughing it up with the Dems.

None of Mittens’ promises on RomneyCare in Mass. were ever fulfilled. And his surrogates over the past year have already stated that there are parts of ObamaCare that Republicans want/need to keep.

What part of Repeal and REPLACE do you not get with Mittens? He even has a dude on his Presidential team who profited from ObamaCare and actively spread propaganda for it.

If you believe Mittens is going to do anything about ObamaCare, I’ve got a bridge to tell you. Mind, I’ll only take precious metals, ammo or medical supplies as payment though.


35 posted on 06/29/2012 2:29:46 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Political Junkie Too

“It’s different when a sovereign state does it. It isn’t binding on other states.
-PJ”


You Mittens supporters are clueless. RomneyCare costs the federal government billions. That’s “binding on other states.”


36 posted on 06/29/2012 2:32:54 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Political Junkie Too
Liberals do what they can, when they can, where they can, Romney is a liberal and saying that he had to stop at the state border doesn't change that.

Romney signs off on permanent assault weapons ban (2004):

"Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts," Governor Romney said, "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

37 posted on 06/29/2012 2:36:24 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: RaisingCain
I was rooting for Gingrich, if Palin didn't get into the race.

But I agree with Rumsfeld that we fight the war with the army we have, not the army we wish we had.

-PJ

38 posted on 06/29/2012 2:48:55 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

“I was rooting for Gingrich, if Palin didn’t get into the race.
But I agree with Rumsfeld that we fight the war with the army we have, not the army we wish we had.

-PJ”


So your response to me correcting your propaganda line from the Mittens camp, pretending as if RomneyCare didn’t cost the federal government (other states) a dime, is to suggest that I must follow the leader, which also implies (judging by your response) that we must lie for him as well?

No thanks. You can fight for Mittens and lie for him. Maybe you can get reinforcements from Kolob. Or the Moon. Or the Sun. Smith and Young thought they were inhabited by Mormons, you know, which makes me surprised that Mittens opposed Newt’s moon colony idea.


39 posted on 06/29/2012 2:57:02 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: RaisingCain
I'll ask you the same question I asked someone else last night?

Should Roe v. Wade be overturned? It won't end abortion, it will just put it back to the states to decide.

Is Obamacare equivalent to Roe v. Wade, in that it nationalizes health care? Should we leave it alone or overturn it, putting health care decisions back to the states to decide?

Some states, like Massachusetts, may go the route of social medicine, while others may not. Likewise, some states may ban abortion, while others may not.

The economies of scale are different within a state vs. within a nation. Decisions made within a state are different than when made within a nation.

-PJ

40 posted on 06/29/2012 3:12:51 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

“I’ll ask you the same question I asked someone else last night?
Should Roe v. Wade be overturned? It won’t end abortion, it will just put it back to the states to decide.

Is Obamacare equivalent to Roe v. Wade, in that it nationalizes health care? Should we leave it alone or overturn it, putting health care decisions back to the states to decide?

Some states, like Massachusetts, may go the route of social medicine, while others may not. Likewise, some states may ban abortion, while others may not.

The economies of scale are different within a state vs. within a nation. Decisions made within a state are different than when made within a nation.

-PJ”


You are supporting totalitarianism on the state level by looking to the 10th amendment, when even by the state constitutions and the spirit therein such a thing as that would be unthinkable. Paul A. Rahe demonstrates this quite well:

“Here is the first paragraph of the preamble to that Constitution:

The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government is to secure the existence of the body-politic, to protect it, and to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying, in safety and tranquillity, their natural rights and the blessings of life; and whenever these great objects are not obtained the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity, and happiness.

It needs to be read in conjunction with the first article of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights (which follows immediately upon the preamble):

All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

There are two things worth noticing – the emphasis on “natural rights and the blessings of life” in the first paragraph of the preamble and the list of “certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights” in the first article of the Declaration of Rights – among which can be found the right “of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property.”

I would submit that these two passages dovetail neatly with the argument I made about the ends of government in my earlier post, quoted at length above; and I think that you can easily see that Romneycare – which presupposes that the government of Massachusetts can dictate to its citizens how they are to spend their own money – is in breach of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights. How, I would ask, can the property left to us after we have paid our taxes be in any respect our own if the state has the right to tell us how to spend it? And if the state can do this in one instance, what is there to prevent it from doing so in other instances?”

http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Is-Romneycare-Constitutional

Either way, all your arguments are made void when we acknowledge the simple fact that RomneyCare is perpetually bailed out by the federal government. Without the support of other states, RomneyCare wouldn’t exist, and this was done wholly without my consent down here in Texas, or yours in whatever state you are in.


41 posted on 06/29/2012 3:23:25 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: RaisingCain
I live in California (thanks for bailing us out, too).

Actually, I made similar arguments regarding the US Constitution Preamble and securing the Blessings of Liberty to our Posterity as a protection against aborting future generations.

Still, it appears that Romney is going to be the nominee. So what is the other choice, keep Obama?

-PJ

42 posted on 06/29/2012 3:29:19 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

“Still, it appears that Romney is going to be the nominee. So what is the other choice, keep Obama?”


And what does that have to do with the truth? To support Romney, you want me to lie for him. This is certain because every time I pop holes in the Propaganda lines for Romney, the response is that “there’s only Romney to vote for.”

If the price of supporting Romney is embracing delusion and supporting his lies, the choice is clear:

None of the above


43 posted on 06/29/2012 3:34:47 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: RaisingCain
To support Romney, you want me to lie for him.

Thank you.

While I fully expect Romney to win, I won't be a propaganda toadie for him even if I intended to vote for him.

Frankly it disgusts me to see conservatives blame all things on democrats and call them slaves when they behave exactly the same way. They must be very proud.

Its like two groups of slaves shouting back and forth over a shared fence about who is free. The only time they stop is when they take time out to chuck rocks at free men, passing on the road.

Its hard to have much hope for America when conservatives don't have the simple courage to be honest.
44 posted on 06/29/2012 7:03:15 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek
You do know the Primaries are over right?

How many people did you convince to Vote for your Candidate during the Primaries and what was the result? Let me answer that for you (1) not enough and (2) Romney.

The Primaries are over. Don't support the Republican, you end up with the Democrat. Couldn't be any simpler.

How people here keep acting like there is a third choice boggles the mind. Primary Elections give us a multitude of choices, but they also whittle those choices down to the Party Nominee.

Don't support the Republican, you directly or indirectly support the Election of the Democrat. None of us can rise above that Reality, although many here profess to do exactly that.

Not Voting, Voting Third Party or Writing in another sure Loser of a Candidate will do nothing to stop Obama’s attack on America and our Freedoms. I don't see that as a valid strategy going into this Election.

If you think Romney and Obama are equals when it comes to destroying America, the divide here is even deeper than I imagined.

That being said, do what you think is best. I am fully aware that nothing I can say will change your position, but I feel it's our duty here to share our thoughts and concerns with the rest of the Board.

Have a good evening.

45 posted on 06/29/2012 7:45:20 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (The only good Zombie is a dead Zombie, oh wait...)
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To: Windcatcher
Repeal of tax laws cannot be filibustered.

Well John McCain (and his friends) need to come in and work with the Dems to do what right for the American people. :)
46 posted on 06/29/2012 9:06:51 PM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: Kickass Conservative

Thank you for stating the obvious.

They know it’s obvious and yet continue to beat the
‘Romney sucks’ drum - and we’re the delusional ones?!

The Alinsky bullcrap worked like a charm, divide and
conquer.


47 posted on 06/29/2012 9:43:00 PM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44 (Fluck this adminstration of misfits.)
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To: AllAmericanGirl44
If it makes you feel any better, I was trolling a couple of the Yahoo comment boards regarding the stories about Michelle Obama using Jesus to push the Obama agenda and the news that Biden will be in Missouri campaigning for McCaskill.

The Yahoo Boards are ripe with Libtards, but they were few and far between on both the places I visited. There were a bunch of former Obama lovers who have seen the light.

I will continue to pray that we will be successful in keeping the House, getting control of the Senate and winning the Presidency. If we do not accomplish all three goals, Obamacare is here to stay.

Romney was my second to last choice, but my Vote alone does not pick the Nominee. We are living in dangerous times and we must walk before we can run. I am a Conservative first and a Republican second, but reality is upon us.

Take care. You are setting yourself up for ridicule by agreeing with me on this topic. Just agree to disagree...

48 posted on 06/30/2012 2:20:55 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (The only good Zombie is a dead Zombie, oh wait...)
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To: Kickass Conservative
I can only estate the obvious despite the fact that you lack the courage to acknowledge it.

Its hard to have much hope for America when conservatives don't have the simple courage to be honest.
49 posted on 06/30/2012 3:04:55 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Bigtigermike

50 posted on 06/30/2012 4:36:05 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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